Pro Choice or Not

[goofygirl]

I'm 100% pro choice and I've never seen an embryo as a "miracle" and never will.

Unless you are a virgin and carrying the son of God, it's not a miracle.

 

[declansdad]

Therefore the person who does not bear the physical risks has no say .

But anyway, if they do not come to agreement, who decides?

I'm not sure who should decide but I feel that it should not automatically default to the woman.

 

[declansdad]

For those of you who feel the sperm donor has some say over the woman's body - how about this scenario:

Your committed partner found out he has advanced testicular cancer. Treatment will make him sterile.

Do you feel that the woman should have ANY say over the sperm in his body, as by destroying it, it takes away her choice to have a child by the partner? Do you feel she has any decision in deciding if the man should have treatment? Or is it entirely the man's decision on what to do with his body?

I know that conception has not yet occurred, but those sperm are potential children. Does the woman have any rights to his body and those sperm?

Where do we draw the line on the decisions that people can make on other people's bodies?

In your situation you are talking about the health and possibly the life of the man, not quite the same. But if the man's sperm could be frozen, then it is a discussion that should held.

A better example might be with a vasectomy. In my case, this was a decision that my dw and I reached together. I didn't say my sperm, my choice.

 

[Ariel Mae]

I didn't say my sperm, my choice.

What about getting her tubes tied? Would you, at that point, say the same thing? Two to discuss the manner?

I agree with you on everything you've said, so far, in this thread. The vasectomy, especially. Okay, I'm quoting a tv show, but, what they hey. Gilmore Girls, when Sookie wants Jackson to get a vasectomy. He says no, she says yes, they talk it out, they come to the decision that 'yes' is the way to go. (Later, they find out Jackson, in fact, didn't do it, but that's a different story.... A little discussion isn't so hard to ask, is it?

 

[LuvDuke]

You can't put all that responsibility on the man, the woman is a willing partner.

If a man doesn't want to be a father, it is his responsibility to take care of himself and not depend on the woman.

As far as DNA donations and rights, the rights extend to the child and not while that child is part of the woman's body.

No man will ever carry a child and no man will ever have to make the decision of whether or not he should have an abortion. Those are just the facts of life.

 

[Ariel Mae]

If a man doesn't want to be a father, it is his responsibility to take care of himself and not depend on the woman.

But the woman has to depend on the male to wear the condom?

As far as DNA donations and rights, the rights extend to the child and not while that child is part of the woman's body.

Okay, then. Let's kick out the dad's in the hospital rooms during the...'scans' of the child, since he has no right to see the child. It's still in the woman's body, after all.

You're passing opinions as facts, there.

No man will ever carry a child and no man will ever have to make the decision of whether or not he should have an abortion. Those are just the facts of life.

Well, with science, you never know what could happen!

"No man will ever have to make the decision of whether or not he should have an abortion."

Even in the case of his wife, in my view, it's not just her abortion. It's theirs.

But, see, the difference with that statement and yours is that I'm not pushing anything as fact. I'm stating it as opinion, because I know there's two sides.

 

[kirbsam]

male, prolife, hoping and praying that someday, nobody feels the need to have an abortion. until that day comes i will continue to pray for the people that have abortions because i understand that it is a difficult decision. no hate, no vileness, just hope.

 

[declansdad]

What about getting her tubes tied? Would you, at that point, say the same thing? Two to discuss the manner?

I agree with you on everything you've said, so far, in this thread. The vasectomy, especially. Okay, I'm quoting a tv show, but, what they hey. Gilmore Girls, when Sookie wants Jackson to get a vasectomy. He says no, she says yes, they talk it out, they come to the decision that 'yes' is the way to go. (Later, they find out Jackson, in fact, didn't do it, but that's a different story.... A little discussion isn't so hard to ask, is it?

Very much so. It is a procedure that would affect both of our lives.

 

[Ariel Mae]

Very much so. It is a procedure that would affect both of our lives.

Thanks for your reply.

And your fabulous posts. Even if I didn't agree, I find them very appealing and they're very well written. Keep it up!

*pulls out of this thread b/c she's got finals studies her mom will mutilate her for if she doesn't do*

 

[declansdad]

If a man doesn't want to be a father, it is his responsibility to take care of himself and not depend on the woman.

As far as DNA donations and rights, the rights extend to the child and not while that child is part of the woman's body.

No man will ever carry a child and no man will ever have to make the decision of whether or not he should have an abortion. Those are just the facts of life.

I didn't say that the man should depend on the woman but rather they both are willing participants and therefore share the responsibility. Even with a condom, there is no 100% guarantee.

As to your last point, that isn't what we are discussing.

 

[declansdad]

Thanks for your reply.

And your fabulous posts. Even if I didn't agree, I find them very appealing and they're very well written. Keep it up!

*pulls out of this thread b/c she's got finals studies her mom will mutilate her for if she doesn't do*

Thank you. I have enjoyed our discussion and the points that many others in this thread have raised

 

[chobie]

I'm not sure who should decide but I feel that it should not automatically default to the woman.

So, in other words you should be able to dictate what happens to a woman's body because you deposited your sperm in her? How archaic of you.

 

[lulubelle]

Woman, Pro Choice. Big Time. But I am a Republican, just had to throw that out, but not trying to stir the pot, honest!

FWIW, I think this is one of the most personal questions you could ask a person - and will garner quite a response.

 

[declansdad]

So, in other words you should be able to dictate what happens to a woman's body because you deposited your sperm in her? How archaic of you.

OK, where did I say that????? Are you actually reading anything that is being posted in here???

 

[chobie]

OK, where did I say that????? Are you actually reading anything that is being posted in here???

Oh yes, you are trying to equate the position of men to woman but its not equal. You cannot get around the fact that the woman has 100% of the physical risks even if everything else from the emotional impact to supporting the child is equal.

It's not an equal situation. To give the man equal rights in what happens to the woman's body is not right, it never was, it never will be. If the choice does not automatically default to the woman, then who gets to make the ultimate choice?

 

[Ariel Mae]

Oh yes, you are trying to equate the position of men to woman but its not equal.

Can you prove this assertion? I believe not, b/c it's not fact, but opinion.

You cannot get around the fact that the woman has 100% of the physical risks even if everything else from the emotional impact to supporting the child is equal.

Again, we're not on it being just about the physical pain!

It's not an equal situation.

Again, you're passing opinion as fact. Why?

. To give the man equal rights in what happens to the woman's body is not right, it never was, it never will be.

It's not right to you. Doesn't mean the rest of us think the same way or have to, chobie.

 

[chobie]

Can you prove this assertion? I believe not, b/c it's not fact, but opinion.



Again, we're not on it being just about the physical pain!



Again, you're passing opinion as fact. Why?



It's not right to you. Doesn't mean the rest of us think the same way or have to, chobie.

It is a fact that the woman bears 100% of the physical risks of pregnancy. Risks mean more than pain, but yes the woman also bears 100% of the pain.

 

[ktink]

I'm a female and pro life.

 

[Nana Annie]

Woman, Mother, anti-abortion for me, but Pro-Choice for others.

As far as the sperm donor, he can have a say in the choice if:

1) He pays 50% of ALL medical bills, vitamins, prescriptions

2) He pays 50% of ALL maternity clothing costs

3) For the first trimester - he has to take a teaspoon of ipecac every 4 hours to induce nausea and vomiting for 3 months and try to do your job when you'd rather just die

3) If any pay is lost due to missing work by the woman for doctors appts, hospitalizations, etc - He must forfeit an equal amount of pay.

4) He MUST take time off from work for every single doctor's appt, possibly putting his career on hold just like the woman possibly is

5) He pays for 50% of all baby needs - crib, sheets, mattresses, clothes

6) During the last trimester - he cannot tie his own shoes. He must rely on help to tie his shoes.

7) If he is a belly sleeper, he must be forced to sleep on his back as soon as his incubator cannot sleep on her tummy.

8) During labor, a nurse must kick him in the groin every 5 minutes, every 2 minutes, every 1 minute. He must learn to breathe through it without screaming.

If the guy wants 50% of the choice, he has to make 50% of the sacrifice

More seriously, while medicine has done miracles with child birth, it is still one of the most dangerous and life threatening experiences a woman can go through.

I know a woman that suffered an embolism during labor. She now has the mental capacity of a 6 month old. She will never enjoy her children, nor will her children know their mother.

Women still suffer seizures and a host of problems during childbirth.

It seems that many pro-life people believe that child birth is just a walk in the park without any kind of risk to the mother-to-be. It is still one of the most dangerous procedures a woman can go through.

 

[declansdad]

Oh yes, you are trying to equate the position of men to woman but its not equal. You cannot get around the fact that the woman has 100% of the physical risks even if everything else from the emotional impact to supporting the child is equal.

It's not an equal situation. To give the man equal rights in what happens to the woman's body is not right, it never was, it never will be. If the choice does not automatically default to the woman, then who gets to make the ultimate choice?

I haven't once said that they were in an equal position. If the reason that the woman wants to have an abortion is because her life is at stake, then by all means it is her decision. However, if she wants to have the abortion as a means of birth control or simply to avoid the pain, than we have a diferent situation.

I have answered your question in saying I don't know who should make the decision. What I have been saying that the man has some rights and they need to be discussed in a fair manner and not just paid lip service to. In the mean time, you are trying to put words in my mouth and others without really contributing much of your own.