Prix fixe at BOG

[Princess Serendipity]

Funny story; CRT isn’t listed as a signature. It’s just a character meal that happens to require two credits. Seriously, check the brochure. I suppose that’s a distinction without a difference.

Ah, fair point. Mea culpa.

MK is the only park without a Signature restaurant.

I yearn for a good MK signature. I still don't think BOG is the answer, much as I love the atmosphere and French cuisine. I've no idea if it's actually feasible, but I dream of a lovely Edwardian/late Victorian-era themed eatery above the Plaza or something looking out at the castle/Main Street. Call it Walt's or something.

 

[Tksolomom]

As someone who used to be a server at Walt Disney World, I think taking up a table to order a glass of water and a cupcake is a crappy thing to do unless you're going to tip as you would ordering a full meal (which I bet no one ever did) - I bet the servers are thrilled about this change. I also disagree that it's not tacky, I think it's incredibly tacky - however, I'm more pleased with this because I think it will make ADRs easier to get for those who actually want to eat the food.

I disagree. They are going to be there for a much shorter period of time than eating a full meal and be less work. That is part of the problem with tipping by percentage. You get tipped more for more expensive items, and less for cheaper items regardless of the amount of work.

 

[Tksolomom]

Is dinner the only meal where the Beast is present at or does he appear at the lunch ADR? I assume it's only dinner but need confirmation from someone who knows.

Dinner only

 

[Vala]

I’ve seen it posted about ordering just dessert at BOG dinner, but there is no way to know how many people actually do it. I would guess that there are far more families splitting entrees than ordering just dessert, but none of us (except Disney) know that for sure.

During my dinner there in November the table next to me rotated twice while I was there. All three parties had dessert only, partly with coffee. At least two other tables closeby were sat after me and left before me, and I saw the dessert station being brought over there quickly after the parties sat down. And now I am going to look like a creep because I paid too much attention to my surroundings.

I have no doubt that part of the decision was to capitalize on the popularity. But after having seen this I totally believe these "dessert only" bookings are a factor too. I never noticed it at my one and only visit 4 years ago, so I can only guess things got out of hand meanwhile and reached the point where Disney decided they had to do something.

 

[Ilovemyprincesses]

That’s sad. We have enjoyed it in the past but won’t go back now. Lunch will be even harder to get now. Why do they do this?

Personally I don’t think signature dining belongs in the parks. That’s a nicer more expensive meal that should be in the resorts.

 

[vinotinto]

I'm surprised that BoG is being called a "character meal" here. It has never been a character meal. Yes, it's likely that you can take a picture with the beast (we have at every single dinner), but that's it. WDW has never guaranteed that you will be able to see the Beast, it does not show as a character meal when you search the WDW Dining list, and just being ale to take a pic with one non-speaking character, IMHO, does not constitute a character meal. Very different from the other meals where you have 4-5 characters coming to your table to interact.

I think they broke it down to the per person spending and all the split entrees, dessert-only, soup-only orders made the bean-counters go "hmm, for the popularity of this restaurant, we are falling behind our targets." There is a fixed cost to provide staffing, linens, silverware, and turn over a table. If that costs the restaurant $5/table and the table is only making $35, it looks bad on that spreadsheet. Especially, when you compare it to other places.

 

[HopperFan]

I yearn for a good MK signature. I still don't think BOG is the answer, much as I love the atmosphere and French cuisine. I've no idea if it's actually feasible, but I dream of a lovely Edwardian/late Victorian-era themed eatery above the Plaza or something looking out at the castle/Main Street. Call it Walt's or something.

Completely agree, for me it’s not even a good version of a table service since it’s too close to the same as their lunch counter service.

But it’s built, themed well and has demand. They tried adding something with Skipper Canteen, no demand. Had it been a hit we may have seen it there. They need to meet the demand for the 2 credit. Maybe some day.

 

[Thiago Acquaviva]

for the changes and the price they better add Belle, Cogs and Lumiere to the character line up!

 

[pat fan]

So will they let an adult order a kids meal? I do this at other places (50's Prime Time, Liberty Tree plus many quick service places) because I frankly am trying to eat less. Any thoughts on this?

 

[DisBuckMan]

So will they let an adult order a kids meal? I do this at other places (50's Prime Time, Liberty Tree plus many quick service places) because I frankly am trying to eat less. Any thoughts on this?

If it's true fixed price, they may let you order a kids' meal, but you'll probably pay adult price for it.

 

[HopperFan]

I disagree. They are going to be there for a much shorter period of time than eating a full meal and be less work. That is part of the problem with tipping by percentage. You get tipped more for more expensive items, and less for cheaper items regardless of the amount of work.

There is no way they can make up the loss by a couple table turns. It may be less work for the kitchen but that server came to your table to take drink orders, brings you drinks, returned to take food orders, turned in order, picked up order, brought you order, checked on you a few times, and created your bill. Would an extra course mean an extra trip? Yes. But I am sure those few extra things a server has to do would be gladly done if it meant their tip was 3-4x more. Especially since there really is no way to turn a dessert table enough times during a normal dinner to make them even.

During my dinner there in November the table next to me rotated twice while I was there. All three parties had dessert only, partly with coffee. At least two other tables closeby were sat after me and left before me, and I saw the dessert station being brought over there quickly after the parties sat down. And now I am going to look like a creep because I paid too much attention to my surroundings.

I have no doubt that part of the decision was to capitalize on the popularity. But after having seen this I totally believe these "dessert only" bookings are a factor too. I never noticed it at my one and only visit 4 years ago, so I can only guess things got out of hand meanwhile and reached the point where Disney decided they had to do something.

THIS^

You saw a table rotate for three parties during your dinner. Average dinner, appetizer or dessert, drink is likely $42 per adult. Add alcohol, which is a big generator for BOG, would likely boost that another $10 minimum.

A dessert and coffee/soda would be $8 per adult. And that is assuming all parties got dessert but we often hear folks share.

It would take that table to rotate 5 or more times in order to break even for the restaurant and the server. I don't think it's possible in most cases for that to happen. We spent 1 hour there for our dinner and dessert. No way that table would turn in 12 minutes. I would imagine most dinners last 1-1.5 hours, and dessert tables last 30 minutes (3 to 1 matches your experience).

So will they let an adult order a kids meal? I do this at other places (50's Prime Time, Liberty Tree plus many quick service places) because I frankly am trying to eat less. Any thoughts on this?

If it's a true prix fixe, they may let you order the food but you will pay the adult price. Hopefully they would give you adult portions. Most TS and all QS ala carte do allow this. In a set price situation that charges for everyone, you would pay the price for your age.

 

[_auroraborealis_]

I also suspect the "cupcake and water" crowd has led to some of the wait issues and table turn issues.

The ADR system is based on average turn time, and it can be adjusted based on actual practice (or ignored, in the case of eateries like 'Ohana, ahem). If they're seeing turn time at BOG for dinner as 30 minutes, they add more ADR capacity to be booked. But then, some of those new ADRs are going to take 75 minutes, because they're actually eating dinner. Leading to delay and wait.

And you have waitstaff who see this pattern, and if they have any seniority try to get to places with better consistency. Leading to turnover and having less involved waitstaff.

It's a no-win for a GM in these cases, because if you're getting a run of water-and-cupcake, you might as well turn the table and have waitstaff try to get a little lift via volume (as they go onto the HUB and try to transfer). But you cannot actually predict who is coming in for what, and when someone wants dinner, you get the angry people waiting at the bridge for a table who are melting down because they'll miss something (FP? HEA?).

You make everyone do the prix fixe, everyone will have a predictable flow rate, the checks will be predictable, the tip rate will be predictable. Sure, there will be outliers on tip; there always are. There will be people who linger, versus express diners; that also always happens. But it is a lot easier to manage to that.

 

[HopperFan]

I also suspect the "cupcake and water" crowd has led to some of the wait issues and table turn issues.

The ADR system is based on average turn time, and it can be adjusted based on actual practice (or ignored, in the case of eateries like 'Ohana, ahem). If they're seeing turn time at BOG for dinner as 30 minutes, they add more ADR capacity to be booked. But then, some of those new ADRs are going to take 75 minutes, because they're actually eating dinner. Leading to delay and wait.

And you have waitstaff who see this pattern, and if they have any seniority try to get to places with better consistency. Leading to turnover and having less involved waitstaff.

It's a no-win for a GM in these cases, because if you're getting a run of water-and-cupcake, you might as well turn the table and have waitstaff try to get a little lift via volume (as they go onto the HUB and try to transfer). But you cannot actually predict who is coming in for what, and when someone wants dinner, you get the angry people waiting at the bridge for a table who are melting down because they'll miss something (FP? HEA?).

You make everyone do the prix fixe, everyone will have a predictable flow rate, the checks will be predictable, the tip rate will be predictable. Sure, there will be outliers on tip; there always are. There will be people who linger, versus express diners; that also always happens. But it is a lot easier to manage to that.

THIS THIS THIS and when you factor in the size of the place ........... the math gets painful.

What folks have to know is every location is in it's own right it's own profit center. If 30% of the tables are only generating 1/5 of the income they are capable of, the general manager has a problem. Even bigger when servers are trying to transfer out to a restaurant with more actual diners and less work. That place is huge, imagine you have the far tables in the gallery room ... you have to hustle across entire restaurant a million times a shift. Hard work.

Part of your menu changes are due to profits, each site has to negotiate with DDP as well. If something drops off sometimes it's might not be just unprofitable due to cost but due to they couldn't negotiate the desired rate with the DDP. We tend to say "well it's all Disney, it's all one company" but that is not the case.

 

[Stefani P.]

IF that is true (still no source as of right now), you're right. An adult TS credit on the regular plan is roughly worth about $45, so you're losing lots of money if this turns out to be a signature, but it will be a GREAT deal if it remains a regular.

Several places online:

https://disneyparks.disney.go.com/b...experience-coming-to-be-our-guest-restaurant/

 

[Stefani P.]

Several places online:

https://disneyparks.disney.go.com/b...experience-coming-to-be-our-guest-restaurant/

http://www.disneyfoodblog.com/2018/02/21/changes-coming-to-be-our-guest-restaurant-in-disney-world/

 

[Stefani P.]

I imagine this is exactly why they've made this change - in response to people gaming the system.

I am bummed. While I never got only dessert, I usually hot only 2 meals or some sides and 1 meal for my family of 3.
I hope sharing is still possible.
Or will a reservation of 3 be expected to order 3 meals? We simply don' eat that much.

 

[DisBuckMan]

I am bummed. While I never got only dessert, I usually hot only 2 meals or some sides and 1 meal for my family of 3.
I hope sharing is still possible.
Or will a reservation of 3 be expected to order 3 meals? We simply don' eat that much.

"Fixed price" generally means everyone pays.

 

[ENJDisneyFan]

I am bummed. While I never got only dessert, I usually hot only 2 meals or some sides and 1 meal for my family of 3.
I hope sharing is still possible.
Or will a reservation of 3 be expected to order 3 meals? We simply don' eat that much.

Pretty sure you wont be able to share. That's the point of fixed price.

 

[sgtdisney]

I am bummed. While I never got only dessert, I usually hot only 2 meals or some sides and 1 meal for my family of 3.
I hope sharing is still possible.
Or will a reservation of 3 be expected to order 3 meals? We simply don' eat that much.

Doubtful. It would be like going to a Buffet Character meal and say, I am not that hungry, I will just eat a few things of my spouses plate, etc. With Prix Fixe, they will count heads at a table and bill accordingly.

 

[Airb330]

I severely doubt the "cupcake" crowd is 100% to blame for this change but I bet it did lower the average price per head. The "average" Disney guest would never even consider making a dining reservation and not eating. This is a board of Disney fanatics (and there are other boards), so I feel that skews a bit towards us seeing posts about it more than it actually happens everyday. However, that coupled with a lower than average dining cost, high demand, and a proven example in Le Cellier; from a business perspective, this is a no brainer. If the food is truly better, $55 isn't too bad, but I have my doubts because they're going to want volume just as they did before on the la carte menu. They will want to keep the tables turning over fast, keep the tables packed in, and I feel food quality won't live up to the hype. They should have done this for Breakfast first (i.e. mandatory prix fixe). I'm not paying $25 for that, but on a dining plan I would use a QS credit--essentially the opposite about how I feel for dinner where I'd pay cash but not use two TS credits!

Oh well, finally a reason to try Skipper Canteen for TS at the MK.