Priority Seating: It has to change.

[Tigger_Magic]

Hmm... a call to change a system based on some ancedotal evidence acquired during what is obviously one of the busiest times at Disney. I don't doubt there is abuse of the ADRs; heck, I've probably missed and forgot to cancel some in the past. But as others mentioned, if you know you're going at a very busy time or you are going when Disney is offering free dining, then it behooves you to plan ahead. Sure it may not be convenient to have to keep to a schedule or be less than spontaneous. But if you want to be spontaneous, you can -- one just has to remember that choices may be quite limited for TS or you may have to settle for counter service fare.

 

[Cannot_Wait_4Disney]

I don't think what happened in the OP is an indication that tables are empty all over WDW even though people are being turned away for ARs. I'm sure Disney is aware that a certain number of people aren't going to show up...either due to having ten different ARs, just not being hungry even though it sounded good 90 days ago, not being able to get there on Disney transportation or for whatever reason. Just like the airlines, I'm sure they overbook. And just like the airlines, there are times you get to a restaurant and more people than normal don't miss their ARs and you have a longer than normal wait. If they go to needing some kind of deposit to hold the AR, they would have to hire a bunch of new people to work the phones. I'm reading some posts now of people calling first thing in the morning to make sure they get their time for a certain place waiting forever.

The phones are jambed every morning for CRT pretty much. It's such a hot ticket you have to be through and in the queue very early. And they already do require a deposit for that. $10 per adult and $5 per child. From about 1 hour after opening the rest of the day I've never held more than 3 minutes. It's not from having to take the CC#. It's just that everyone calls knowing they have to to get a spot.

 

[Goofy4WDW1964]

Do you think Early Entry would be back if we all just decided that when it was stopped that we would just plan around it?

If enough people let Disney know that they are unhappy with the PS system, they will look into fixing it. And, it does need fixed. If you have three PS for the same evening, and you are just one person, then how do you figure that people making multiple PS aren't part of the problem? Do you honestly think that a system that allows people to take up two additional tables at a restaurant that others could be using doesn't need fixed? I think even Disney would agree that it does.

It's not really a matter of not having a PS and having to wait. But, when you call to make a PS and are told that they are all booked, then Disney could be losing out on a paying customer. I know that it means that the restaurant is not booked, but all available PS are. So, if you remove the part of the system that allows for multiple PS without a monetary punishment, then it will make the system better.

We ran into this in June. We had PS at Liberty Tree Tavern for an evening. Imagine, someone actually planning ahead? But, because of the crowds, we altered our plans and went to Epcot. I called and canceled the first PS and tried to make a different PS for dinner and the CM was very helpful. He tried every restaurant in Epcot and none had a PS available. So, instead of going to Epcot, we left Disney grounds and spent our evening and our money off Disney property.

You can make several reservations at a hotel and reserve them with your Credit Card. But, if you don't show up or cancel, guess what? You get charged for it.

And actually, the PS is only part of the problem. Disney's greed is just as much of a contributor. When we were at MGM one evening, the park was extremely crowded. Now, MGM doesn't have an abundance of restaurants to begin with. Then to find out that one of the restaurants wasn't even open during the evening. Also, one afternoon at the MK, we ate at Pinochio's next to Small World. We didn't have a problem getting a table because we eat lunch at 11:00am so that we don't get caught in the crowds. But, by 11:30, the place was full with many more people still in line ordering food. There was an entire section of tables that was closed.

 

[Tigger_Magic]

I guess what I am saying is that not only does the "system" not discourage multiple PS's...it almost makes it a necessity. But don't get me wrong...I am not encouraging/recommending that people make multiple PS's, but I can almost understand why they would purposefully overlook common courtesy and make them.

When you check in, the front desk (assuming you are staying onsite) can print a list of your ADRs. It should be easy to go through them, call Disney Dining and cancel those you won't be using.

If you aren't staying onsite, you can create your own ADR list in a word processing or spreadsheet program easily. As plans change, just update the list.

Common courtesy is easy -- it just requires a little effort.

 

[grimley1968]

Hmm... a call to change a system based on some ancedotal evidence acquired during what is obviously one of the busiest times at Disney. I don't doubt there is abuse of the ADRs; heck, I've probably missed and forgot to cancel some in the past. But as others mentioned, if you know you're going at a very busy time or you are going when Disney is offering free dining, then it behooves you to plan ahead. Sure it may not be convenient to have to keep to a schedule or be less than spontaneous. But if you want to be spontaneous, you can -- one just has to remember that choices may be quite limited for TS or you may have to settle for counter service fare.

I invite you to re-read the OP's post. Once again, he was NOT complaining about things being sold out because they were busy. He made his PS's. Please read the OP's original post. You're missing the point when you bring up the "it's busy in July, you need to plan ahead" line, as have others before you. If it was so busy in July, how do you explain away the half empty Mama Melrose's when PS's were pretty much all used up? Let's try to address the OP's point.

 

[Tigger_Magic]

I invite you to re-read the OP's post. Once again, he was NOT complaining about things being sold out because they were busy. He made his PS's. Please read the OP's original post. You're missing the point when you bring up the "it's busy in July, you need to plan ahead" line, as have others before you. If it was so busy in July, how do you explain away the half empty Mama Melrose's when PS's were pretty much all used up? Let's try to address the OP's point.

*SIGH* My point was that there is a clarion call to change the system based solely on ancedotal evidence. I could issue the same call to change the FP system or EMH or check-in process or anything else that might temporarily annoy me during my Disney vacation. The reality may be something completely different and other's mileage will vary.

 

[greenyskp]

We ran into this in June. We had PS at Liberty Tree Tavern for an evening. Imagine, someone actually planning ahead? But, because of the crowds, we altered our plans and went to Epcot. I called and canceled the first PS and tried to make a different PS for dinner and the CM was very helpful. He tried every restaurant in Epcot and none had a PS available. So, instead of going to Epcot, we left Disney grounds and spent our evening and our money off Disney property.

No no, instead of GOING to Epcot and getting in line with everyone else, you left the Disney gates and ate at Dennys. (or whereever)

You can make several reservations at a hotel and reserve them with your Credit Card. But, if you don't show up or cancel, guess what? You get charged for it.

Its a hotel room. People arent lined up outside hotel rooms to get one. And you spend way more than 2 hours at a hotel. Completley different concept.

And actually, the PS is only part of the problem. Disney's greed is just as much of a contributor. When we were at MGM one evening, the park was extremely crowded. Now, MGM doesn't have an abundance of restaurants to begin with. Then to find out that one of the restaurants wasn't even open during the evening. Also, one afternoon at the MK, we ate at Pinochio's next to Small World. We didn't have a problem getting a table because we eat lunch at 11:00am so that we don't get caught in the crowds. But, by 11:30, the place was full with many more people still in line ordering food. There was an entire section of tables that was closed.

If you have a problem with the 'greed' of Disney, then dont go there. Or anywhere for that matter. Of course theyre greedy. Theyre a COMPANY. They have a bottom line.


This whole argument COULD be about Fastpasses. Fastpasses sell out early in the day sometimes. WHY should I have to wait in line for 40 min, when people who came in this morning got fast passes? Its not fair. Boo Hoo. I have to wait to ride a ride. I have to wait to eat at a restaurant.

Try working in a restaurant before getting upset that a system doesnt work.

I worked at Olive Garden in orlando for years, There are people who will never be pleased. I had an african american woman who thrust a steak knife in my face, telling me it was dirty, and I had obviously given it to her because I was racist, thought she deserved dirty silverwear because I was racist. People screaming in my face that they had waited to 2 hours, and why did we have the other side of the restaurant closed. ( on a monday, they just dont schedule a restaurant full of servers...) And people who had called and made a Priority seating reservation, and were stilling waiting an hour later. I was working very hard, still had a smile on my face and was exhausted. But they didnt care, and i didnt make as much as I should have. People expect too much.

 

[Goofy4WDW1964]

*SIGH* My point was that there is a clarion call to change the system based solely on ancedotal evidence. I could issue the same call to change the FP system or EMH or check-in process or anything else that might temporarily annoy me during my Disney vacation. The reality may be something completely different and other's mileage will vary.

Isn't that how you begin to go about change? Maybe find out if other's have the same problem?

I believe other's have posted threads refering to changes needed to FP and EMH, or at least post their experience with them.

Interesting note of "other's mileage will vary". If you bought a new car and it was getting 5 mpg, would you take it to your dealer to have it looked at or just accept it because your new car sticker indicates that "mileage may vary"?

 

[freakylick]

When you check in, the front desk (assuming you are staying onsite) can print a list of your ADRs. It should be easy to go through them, call Disney Dining and cancel those you won't be using.

If you aren't staying onsite, you can create your own ADR list in a word processing or spreadsheet program easily. As plans change, just update the list.

Common courtesy is easy -- it just requires a little effort.

Actual I was referring to the courtesy of not making multiple PS's to begin with. But I agree that if you have made multiple's, then cancel whatever you won't be using on the morning of.

 

[Goofy4WDW1964]

No no, instead of GOING to Epcot and getting in line with everyone else, you left the Disney gates and ate at Dennys. (or whereever)

That was my point. Disney lost my business because you decided you could make 3 PS because you planned ahead. When Disney loses enough of business because of it, they will change it.

Its a hotel room. People arent lined up outside hotel rooms to get one. And you spend way more than 2 hours at a hotel. Completley different concept.

It is exactly the same concept. Why do you think hotels now require a credit card to guarantee a room? Because people would reserve a room and not show up and the hotel wasn't able to rent that room to someone else. Also, have you spent any time on these boards when people are waiting for AP discount rates for the resorts to come out? Quite a few people were "lined up" waiting to make those reservations.

If you have a problem with the 'greed' of Disney, then dont go there. Or anywhere for that matter. Of course theyre greedy. Theyre a COMPANY. They have a bottom line.

They were still a company in the 1990's as far as I remember. The difference in how they operated the parks then to how they operate the parks now is very different. Then, the most important people were their guest. Guess what? When they took care of their guest, they made more money. And they still had shareholders to keep happy.

This whole argument COULD be about Fastpasses. Fastpasses sell out early in the day sometimes. WHY should I have to wait in line for 40 min, when people who came in this morning got fast passes? Its not fair. Boo Hoo. I have to wait to ride a ride. I have to wait to eat at a restaurant.

Hmm, could this be why they limit the number of fast passes each ticket can have at once? And, aren't fast passes free with a paying ticket just like a PS is? Gee, maybe if they didn't, then people who planned ahead and got to the parks first could get as many fast passes as they wanted no matter if they couldn't possibly ride 50 rides in a day.

Try working in a restaurant before getting upset that a system doesnt work.

I worked in a restaurant for six years while in high school and college. Guess what, when people blew off their reservation twice, their name went on a list and they were no longer allowed to make a reservation. Of course, that didn't keep them from making them under another name, but we also required ID at the time of seating a party. It wasn't perfect, but people learned.

 

[Laugh O. Grams]

Actually in 'todays world' you dont need a credit card. Especially since most malls, (and other stores) offer gift cards that can be used as credit cards.
Ours is a Simon Mall Card and they are credit cards with VISA symbols on them. Ive used them to pay bills, and I use them primarily for vacations. I save up my money and then go get a card. Book the vacation and keep track of my money. Its nice because when your done with it, you toss it. And if you dont like using your actual credit card online, you can use these and if someone steals your number its useless. There are ways to not have a bank account or a credit card, and still pay your bills, go on vacation, and live a seemingly normal life.

Most people also dont realize that your Debit card IS a credit card. If it has a VISA or Mastercard symbol its accepted EVERYWHERE VISA or MASTERCARD is. So if you have a checking account, you have a credit card.

I get your point about credit/debit cards, everyone's got 'em, great. Unfortunately, it has absolutely nothing to do with my point about the obvious need for credit card when making a reservation.

It could be a debit card or any charge card that you have in your wallet. The point is that if WDW changed PS's to guarenteed reservations, and charged the card (credit or debit) of whoever didn't call to cancel a reservation, I think that the number people who do not show the common courtesy to simply call and cancel a reservation would plummet!

Everyone on this thread has stated that they are courteous peole who cancel their reservations, so this change wouldn't affect them. As far as forgeting to cancel, I promise that if WDW would charge your card as a penalty for your forgetfulness, you'd remember. I'm all for forcing, financially if need be, those who have no consideration for other's time and money to be considerate. That way, when you waltz on up to the Le Cellier for your 7:00 pm dinner reservation with the kids wearing on your last nerve and the extreme need for a great piece of red meat, they would seat you immediately, no waiting. Does that sound so bad?

 

[civileng68]

I get your point about credit/debit cards, everyone's got 'em, great. Unfortunately, it has absolutely nothing to do with my point about the obvious need for credit card when making a reservation.

It could be a debit card or any charge card that you have in your wallet. The point is that if WDW changed PS's to guarenteed reservations, and charged the card (credit or debit) of whoever didn't call to cancel a reservation, I think that the number people who do not show the common courtesy to simply call and cancel a reservation would plummet!

Everyone on this thread has stated that they are courteous peole who cancel their reservations, so this change wouldn't affect them. As far as forgeting to cancel, I promise that if WDW would charge your card as a penalty for your forgetfulness, you'd remember. I'm all for forcing, financially if need be, those who have no consideration for other's time and money to be considerate. That way, when you waltz on up to the Le Cellier for your 7:00 pm dinner reservation with the kids wearing on your last nerve and the extreme need for a great piece of red meat, they would seat you immediately, no waiting. Does that sound so bad?

Agreed!

Also, Disney charges a financial penalty for not showing up for cancelling a Fantasmic! Dinner Package, and I doubt they have many problems with cancellations.

 

[civileng68]

That was my point. Disney lost my business because you decided you could make 3 PS because you planned ahead. When Disney loses enough of business because of it, they will change it.




It is exactly the same concept. Why do you think hotels now require a credit card to guarantee a room? Because people would reserve a room and not show up and the hotel wasn't able to rent that room to someone else. Also, have you spent any time on these boards when people are waiting for AP discount rates for the resorts to come out? Quite a few people were "lined up" waiting to make those reservations.







Hmm, could this be why they limit the number of fast passes each ticket can have at once? And, aren't fast passes free with a paying ticket just like a PS is? Gee, maybe if they didn't, then people who planned ahead and got to the parks first could get as many fast passes as they wanted no matter if they couldn't possibly ride 50 rides in a day.

Great points.

I agree that hotels do in fact have people waiting in lines. The lines are simlply not physical but virtual through online. Disney had a major problem with Disney passholders waiting for rates to come out and they had to enforce strict rules.

Also the point you make about fastpass is exactly right. Yes, you get FP's and they run out, but you can only get one every so often, so you have to be careful of how you use it. On a very busy day, i bet you are much more careful in which ride you select first to get a fastpass on, right? In fact, I 'll bet your much more careful of which fp you get than what PS you get. If you could do like your PS and get as many FP's as you like in any given period of time, I'd bet they'd be gone in the first hour, as everyone would empty the machines very quickly. Heck, many would stay at the same machine and get 50 tickets before moving to the next. Then people would DEFINATELY be upset.

Again, there could be several steps. I DEFINATELY think one major step would be to remove certain restaurants from the FP list.

 

[BibbidyBobbidyBoo]

I find this thread interesting because I am in the midst of my first attempt at planning my own WDW vacation (been there before, but this is the first time as the planner). We are going in October and I am attempting to schedule/make my PS's right now. Of course, I am having a hard time because, although I have a schedule of what parks on what days, I don't really know if I will actually be there since things may change...like park times when the Oct schedule is released. So I am perplexed at trying to schedule my PS's at which parks/resorts. I just have a feeling that my PS's are going to determine my vacation...which is not how it should be. These are the reasons that people abuse the system.

I guess what I am saying is that not only does the "system" not discourage multiple PS's...it almost makes it a necessity. But don't get me wrong...I am not encouraging/recommending that people make multiple PS's, but I can almost understand why they would purposefully overlook common courtesy and make them.

This is so true... to have you needing to make PS's (especially at popular places) at restaurants 90 days out yet not having the schedule of park hours, EMH, etc. at that point- really makes it hard and I'm sure it causes many people to make multiple bookings. Otherwise they'd have to plan around something that might not happen (park hours, EMH, etc.) and then when it doesn't happen- they have no place to eat because they don't have PS's booked for the changed times/etc?

I have never booked more than one PS for each meal- I usually plan out our days anyway but I like that I'm not STUCK eating there if my plans change. I do not make multiple bookings- but I wouldn't like to be penalized if my plans changed 100 days later (after getting PS 90 days out then 10 days into my WDW trip) due to whatever reasons. For instance our last trip I had all our PS's planned for each day- I just "guessed" on what EMH/park hours would be. Fortunately the only thing that changed was no evening EMH at MK on a day I thought it would be but it didn't mess with my PS's. However, on the last day of our 10 night trip our plans were changed. Originally we were to be at MK all day and had a PS for early dinner at LTT.
Well, by the 10th day of our trip we'd had enough of MK and changed our plans that day. I called and cancelled LTT that morning. Would I have been charged $10 for that based on some suggestions given on this thread?
I changed it to a PS for Trail's End restaurant because we decided we'd swim in the pool at the resort then go to FW in the evening and do the campfire/singalong because when we'd planned it the day BEFORE after Mickey's Backyard BBQ- mother nature had other ideas and it rained right that evening and they cancelled it that night.

But then later that day (a couple of hours later around noon) it started raining hard- and it rained until 8:30pm almost nonstop!!! We decided to go to DTD (even our resort pool was closed all day) because we didn't want to walk around in the rain at FW and by the afternoon we figured the campfire/singalong would be cancelled again (and we were right about that) and we stopped by Guest Relations to cancel that PS at Trail's end and try to get one in DTD. Should I have been charged another $10 fee for that when it was the weather that changed our plans? Even the weather man can't know for sure how the weather will be the next day. Expecting possible rain yes- but all day like that?

I was unable to get a PS for that evening at DTD restaurants that we could use the dining plan on- so we did walk up at Capt Jack's and waited an hour to be seated.

Now all of this is ofcourse depending on "when" the cancellation time would be in order to not be charged the fee suggested on this thread- but most like CRT is 24hrs I do believe- so within that time frame... I'd have been charged $20 fee just for changing my PS's- and nothing to do with multiple bookings because I didn't do that. I never do. It's HARD to make PS's for 90 days ahead of time- you have to not only plan your days very detailed- what park you'll be at on what day- but it's even harder when you don't even know what the hours will be, EMH, etc. Then add to that things like weather -- well, we do the best we can and I'm glad they don't charge penalties for most bookings. I can understand it on hard to get PS's like CRT though. (and I would gladly take my penalty fee if I wasn't able to make that PS because I know how hard it is to get and that you're keeping someone else from being able to go). But I don't think ALL PS's (ADR's) should have a penalty fee if you cancel or are unable to make it (I would always call and cancel though) for whatever reasons.

 

[civileng68]

I would agree also.

I am STRONGLY against the making of multiple PS's and personally won't do so, but, can't really blame anyone who does it as Disney is pretty much making it necessary the way they are set up.

I don't always blame the people but the people with the power to create a solution.

I manage about 50 people at my company and while many are GREAT employees, one thing rings true, even with the best employees, if you allow bad habbits to start, eventually everyone will take them. The only difference is that the better employees may take more time to get involved in them.

I don't really blame Disney either though for the problem because some things you don't really hit without experience. It's just something they need to seriously fix.

 

[BibbidyBobbidyBoo]

One quick fix that I personally think wouldn't be all THAT hard to do- would be to coincide park hours/EMH schedule/etc. with how many days out you can make PS's. For instance- if they only give that info out 60 days in advance, then make the PS's 60 days out.. not 90 days out. Or vice versa- get the hours/EMH schedule out 90 days out.

I think that would solve quite a bit of the problem of multiple bookings of PS's and/or changing them at 60 days once the park hours/EMH schedules are given out. It wouldn't solve it completely- but it would sure help a lot I bet. And how hard would that really be? If giving schedules out sooner than 60 days is too hard for whatever reasons- then just change it to 60 days out to book PS's. Easy IMO.

 

[greenyskp]

I guess this just comes down to the fact that I live close enough to go RIGHT NOW. and others plan their trips every few years, or once a year. So PSR's arent a big deal to me. I see nothing wrong with the system. There is a system in place and I follow the rules. Thats as far as it goes for me. If we miss one... oh well we'll go another time. If something is full oh well we'll go another time.

But when I went to New York, and tried to be a socialite and get into cool clubs, but I wasnt on the list, I still wasnt upset and it in no way ruined my trip. Is there are NYC board somewhere with people complaining that they cant get into clubs because they arent celebrities?

Im sorry if ive come off harsh. I just dont get getting uppity about this stuff. There are so many aspects of WDW to enjoy. Why nit pick your trip apart? When I woke up Tinkerbell this past weekend... the chick screwed it up. I knew she did it, my friend said afterward, aww were you sad that she screwed it up? I said no, that i wasnt even going to let that thought enter my mind, because I woke up tinkerbell, and i got a certificate to prove it, and my whole day has been made. I just dont let stuff get to me. And im in no way concerned with what other people are doing. Stay at disney, spend thousands of dollars, wait hours to get into a restaurant, yell at the waiter because he got your order wrong, complain how expensive it is, complain how crowded it is, complain how the family next to you got seated before you and they arrived after you, complain about whatever you want. I will never ever have a bad experience with ANYTHING at Disney World. I just simply dont let things affect me. It will continue to be magical and amazing until im 128 years old. I already feel like im getting my money;s worth so i dont notice the family ahead of me in line who just got upgraded to concierge, because disney screwed up their booking. Im exciting that im checking into my hotel. Like i said... i just dont get it.

 

[leighe]

.

You might not agree with that. But i'll be planning my PS's ahead of time, arriving early, and booking 3 places at a time. because i dont know in 3 months time if ill be in the mood for mexican, italian or a steak. But it will be nice to have the option to choose, and know that instead of not getting in or having to wait an hour. I might have to wait a half hour at most.

In essense its not even manipulation, its using it properly. And in 20 years of going to WDW 5 or more times a year, ive NEVER had an issue with a PS reservation.



QUOTE]

Wow. That just seems really rude to me - making three PS when you know you will only use one.

I guess I'm really naive but it never even occured to me to make more than one PS for a meal. I usually make one a day and then we either plan parks around that or if we get up one day and don't feel like going to Epcot or eating at a certain place I would call WDW dining, cancel the PS and see what's available where we do want to eat. We've never had a huge problem getting in anywhere.

 

[civileng68]

.

You might not agree with that. But i'll be planning my PS's ahead of time, arriving early, and booking 3 places at a time. because i dont know in 3 months time if ill be in the mood for mexican, italian or a steak. But it will be nice to have the option to choose, and know that instead of not getting in or having to wait an hour. I might have to wait a half hour at most.

In essense its not even manipulation, its using it properly. And in 20 years of going to WDW 5 or more times a year, ive NEVER had an issue with a PS reservation.



QUOTE]

Wow. That just seems really rude to me - making three PS when you know you will only use one.

I guess I'm really naive but it never even occured to me to make more than one PS for a meal. I usually make one a day and then we either plan parks around that or if we get up one day and don't feel like going to Epcot or eating at a certain place I would call WDW dining, cancel the PS and see what's available where we do want to eat. We've never had a huge problem getting in anywhere.

Agreed. but then again, some of us don't look to exploit every loophole in society and call it our "right".

 

[LuluLovesDisney]

One quick fix that I personally think wouldn't be all THAT hard to do- would be to coincide park hours/EMH schedule/etc. with how many days out you can make PS's. For instance- if they only give that info out 60 days in advance, then make the PS's 60 days out.. not 90 days out. Or vice versa- get the hours/EMH schedule out 90 days out.

If giving schedules out sooner than 60 days is too hard for whatever reasons- then just change it to 60 days out to book PS's. Easy IMO.

Good idea!

Just to mention it, I already have my plans made for December. Will I change them? Possibly. But all my PS/ADR times and the days I have to call for them are in a spreadsheet. You can research historical park hours and make very very good guesses. It's not like the hours are going to be extremely different! MK will not suddenly open at noon or close at three. And if you *do* need to make changes you can easily call the same number you dialed to make the ADR and cancel. As far as people making 2 and 3 and 4 or more! ADR's for one meal are abusing the system, being selfish and inconsiderate of others due to their lack of planning. Unfortunately I see a lot of this "me first, to heck with the rest of the world" attitude lately. It's a huge problem in every facet of our existance. And as a teacher, I wish there were something I could do about it. Lack of compassion and common courtesy is the biggest problem today.