Prices just hit my threshold :-(

[bpadair32]

Wow.............this thread is a microcosm of what's going on in America today. I must say I'm torn as I read. There have been valid points on both sides, yeah I'm riding the fence . The thing I do find troubling is the lack of empathy of some. While I agree a vacation to WDW isn't a "right" it should be something that everyone can have a shot at...........without being considered a lesser being. And those who can't shouldn't be made to feel bad about themselves. I didn't have my first visit to WDW until I was in my 30's, because my parents couldn't make it work.....and that doesn't change my feelings of love for them in any way....

Doug

I can't speak for others that have posted, but I have had private conversations with a couple of them and I think that they would agree with me. It is not a lack of empathy. I understand the situation they are in, I was once their myself. The problem many of us have is with the entitlement culture that has been created the last several decades in this country that leads people to believe that Disney should not be allowed to raise prices because then they can't afford it. No matter what the price is, everyone does have a shot at it, and people only make you feel like a lesser being if you let them.

 

[3DisneyFanz]

No need for a rule. They spend $2 Billion on a system designed to gather accurate data on the individual guest level. They are using that data to adjust pricing policy. They don't need to ban guests that don't meet a profit threshold, they just need to manipulate pricing to increase that guests profitability either by them paying more to attend at certain times or moving them to different times.

Despite everyone crowing on about Disney "wasting $2 billion of FP+" they actually spent very wisely on a data warehouse and analytics system that will allow them to better monetize every category of guest. It's exactly that kind of project I would love to be a part of.

The only thing they gained out of that 2 billion investment was ride rationing, rubber bracelets and the ability to track your movey in the parks if you don't link a CC to your account. The only piece of data that's showing up now that they couldn't track before is cash spending which they can link with the MB sensors.

 

[anniemae]

I have been following this thread since yesterday and finally have a chance to chime in. We are DINKs and we can well afford to vacation even with the price increases. But, I am in the camp of the value is no longer there. Price increases are a part of business, and I have no problem paying the increase as long as the product I am buying remains, at the very least, the same quality of which I started purchasing it. We have chosen to spend our vacations for the last 10 years almost exclusively at WDW. In all of those trips we have never ventured off property, we had no desire to, as everything we wanted was there; great food, adult beverages, live entertainment (Off Kilter, Mo’Rockin’ and Mulch, Sweat and Shears to name a few), unique souvenirs , all with great quality.
However in the last few trips I have been seeing the decline in the quality. The quality of the merchandise is deplorable. I bought a Tower of Terror mug on our May 2015 trip and the lettering is already coming off. We are DVC owners at BCV and the maintenance of the villas is not what it was 10 years ago, but yet my maintenance fees have increased. They have eliminated all of the live entertainment (that mattered to me at least) . This deterioration has been met with increasing prices. For the first time since 2001 I do not have a trip planned.
I love Disney and I am allowed to be disappointed in the recent direction they have gone. I don’t think they “owe” me anything other than to maintain my investment with them at BCV. Will I go again, absolutely, but my trip (whenever that will be) will be split now with US/IOA as I would like to see what the dark side is doing. So, for those that believe that voting with my dollars will not amount to a hill of beans, well you are entitled to your opinions as I am to mine. And for those who believe that Disney does not monitor these boards as well as the other popular boards, you are mistaken as the owner of these boards has said as much in his earlier podcasts.

I also think the food quality has declined as well. It's one thing to pay more if you are getting more, but it seems we are paying more for less quality, less rides etc. The only thing there is MORE of is crowds!

 

[Happy_2_B]

The lack of empathy in these financial threads is staggering.

Although I do not disagree, no one has an entitlement to a WDW vacation. Stockholders, however, have a right and an entitlement to expect performance from a company they invest in- and if that means raising prices to offset expansion, new construction, etc.- then so be it. Many WDW attractions are outdated, and it costs money to replace/update them. What we on the boards might think about price increases is irrelevant to the corporation and it's stockholders. Stockholders do not care how someone feels, or how much they love Disney, or how disappointed they are about price increases. Stockholders care about one thing- and one thing only- profit margins.

Prices are going up, and people have to choose whether to deal with it and continue planning their WDW vacation (with or without compromises), vacation elsewhere, or not vacation at all until they save up enough money so that a WDW trip makes sense- those are the cold, hard facts surrounding these price increase issues. That said, almost anyone can make a WDW vacation work if they save up and make choices like staying off site, packing lunches, etc. It may not be what they did during past vacations- but it is still doable. Many of these posts make it seem like a WDW vacation is now out of reach. It isn't.

Some will have to compromise where they haven't had to in the past- and those areas where compromise is made will simply be 'filled in' by someone else in a better financial position- or someone that doesn't care as much about the increases. Every time there is a price increase these financial threads start on almost every WDW enthusiast site- last for a few weeks- then disappear. Many of those that have 'had enough' and 'reached their limit' and are 'done' with Disney are still here long after the price increases go into effect- and are still buying their passes and TiW cards and additional DVC points and whatever else.

It makes no difference to Disney or it's shareholders either way- go to WDW, don't go to WDW- the bottom line is financial accountability to stockholders, and there is no empathy involved- only dollars and cents. There will always be someone else to 'replace' the person that chooses to 'boycott' Disney, or buy the extra DVC points, or use a TiW card, or buy an AP- it's just the way it is. The parks are bursting at the seams during busy seasons, and attendance is way up during what have been historically slower times. The quote in the movie Field of Dreams gets it right..."If you build it, they will come". Whether or not those of us on the boards are included in the 'they' in the previous quote doesn't matter to the stockholders. There will always be others to take the spot vacated by those that 'boycott Disney'.

 

[bpadair32]

[QUOTE="goofy4tink, post: 54539456, member: 37963"
All this by the age of 32? Very impressive. Doesn't necessarily make you all knowing in things Disney though. I highly doubt you come close to the number of trips some of us have taken to WDW/DL. Our experiences count for something. And we get to verbalize them....you don't need to agree.
[/QUOTE]

You are correct, I don't have to and I don't. But I am equally entitled to my opinion and you don't have to agree with it either. I still have the same right to verbalize my opinion that you do.

 

[dlavender]

entitlement culture that has been created the last several decades in this country that leads people to believe that Disney should not be allowed to raise prices because then they can't afford it

Who said that? Are you reading, or just using canned responses? If you are a real person type this caption - 8446.

In reading the responses, you will see that most people are highlighting Value, and "bang for your buck". Which, sleeping in a free CL room, is hard to compute, I understand, and empathize with you and your situation.

 

[bpadair32]

Although I do not disagree, they are still facts. No one has an entitlement to a WDW vacation. Stockholders have a right to expect performance from a company they invest in- and if that means raising prices to offset expansion, new construction, etc.- then so be it. Many WDW attractions are outdated, and it costs money to replace them. What we might think about price increases is irrelevant to the corporation and it's stockholders. Prices are going up, and people have to choose whether to deal with it and continue planning their WDW vacation (with or without compromises), vacation elsewhere, or not vacation at all until they save up enough money so that a WDW trip makes sense- those are the cold, hard facts surrounding these price increase issues. That said, almost anyone can make a WDW work if they save up and make choices like staying off site, packing lunches, etc. May not be what they did during past vacations- but it is still doable. Many of these posts make it seem like a WDW vacation is now out of reach. It isn't. Some will compromise where they haven't had to in the past- and those areas where compromise is made will simply be 'filled in' by someone else in a better financial position- or someone that doesn't care as much about the increases. Every time there is a price increase these financial threads start on almost every WDW enthusiast site- last for a few weeks- then disappear. Many of those that have 'had enough' and 'reached their limit' and are 'done' with Disney are still here long after the price increases go into effect- and are still buying their passes and TiW cards and additional DVC points and whatever else. It makes no difference to Disney or it's shareholders either way- go to WDW, don't go to WDW- the bottom line is financial accountability to stockholders, and there is no empathy involved- only dollars and cents.

Yes.

 

[RedAngie]

I just realized that. O........................M...........................G..................................$2500-$3000 PER NIGHT?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!? Were these built for the exclusive use of the Saudi Royal Family?

I'm staying offsite for my DL visit in a few weeks, but just for kicks, this past weekend I checked the prices for Disneyland's hotels during my stay. Paradise Pier and Grand California were sold out, Disneyland Hotel just had some suite available. Since I'm the Queen of Tackiness, they presumed to offer My Royal Highness the Triple Platinum Suite for the bargain rate of $3202 per night.

At first I thought that was a package price, 3 nights plus two park hopper tickets. Nope....over $3000 per night just for the suite.

 

[bpadair32]

Who said that? Are you reading, or just using canned responses? If you are a real person type this caption - 8446.

In reading the responses, you will see that most people are highlighted Value, and "bang for your buck". Which, sleeping in a free CL room, is hard to compute, I understand, and empathize with you and your situation.

Read back to the beginning and you will find quite a few people that were making points just like that. Quite a few actually.

 

[dlavender]

Read back to the beginning and you will find quite a few people that were making points just like that

I urge you to read back to the beginning and see most people pointing out value. Yes. Some people do highlight that Disney has become a lot more expensive in the last 5 years, which does now make it unattainable for some.

 

[3DisneyFanz]

It seems that the majority of factors that bring down guest satisfaction have to do with crowding and the subsequent strain on the parks' infrastructure. Perhaps a raise in prices will push some people out of the park, reduce the strain on infrastructure and also maintain the bottom line necessary to make enhancements? Perhaps this might increase guest satisfaction and bring the value back up for those who can still afford to go? I think it is totally reasonable for a business to employ a model that increases satisfaction, reduces asset wear and provides value to their customer so I cannot hate on Disney for doing it.

If this is what they are doing, though, I feel like it is a shortsighted solution for a company that used to be so imaginative and inclusive. I may be the only one, but I think there is a difference between "magic" and "special effects". To me, magic is something that impacts you mentally or emotionally whereas special effects are something you see but know are fake. I feel the shift of discontent comes from those who prefer to feel the magic than to see special effects and are tired of seeing something so nostalgic and dear be replaced by smoke and mirrors.

The problem is the higher the cost with no additions and declining maintenance lowers the value. I think for many it's not of they can pay but whether they feel it was worth it. For people who have a long history of visiting the parks they've seen a significant change in maintenance and service so even if you can pay it you have to question why do you keep getting more for less.

 

[Bluegrrl]

Have you guys seen Disney Hong Kong? Cause through the magic of YouTube, I have. Every freaking day, since my son loves watching the videos. Now THATS a park I would pay for. Beautiful, clean and great shows. Or Disneyland Japan and Seas. Only thing stopping us is airfare.

And re: one more "Walt" thingie -
When he couldn't get anyone to invest on the Tiki room, he used his own money to build it. It was originally supposed to be a restuarant, but when that didn't work (think of it like a rainforest cafe that no one left!), he didn't close it. He retooled it as a show. Would Disney do that now?

And, yes, as a cm back in the good ole'days we did have about a week of traditions paid training, not to mention about a 3 day on-site job orientation. We had to wear business clothes too, and have Disney-look. It was very professional. Now it's just one day and throw them to the Wolves.

I remember the park manager to MGM. He was a cool Aussie, and told us that if we ever saw him in the park and he walked by a piece of trash, we could call him on it and he'd buy us a drink. And if he saw US do the same, we'd owe him a drink - and he didn't drink the cheap stuff!

 

[dlavender]

I would not agree with those who think that Disney should be free. But I also don't agree with those who think Disney should be $200/day. I also am not happy with every price increase without added benefits. In my previous points I highlight this.

 

[Cactus-butt]

entitlement

 

[condorthb]

All this by the age of 32? Very impressive. Doesn't necessarily make you all knowing in things Disney though. I highly doubt you come close to the number of trips some of us have taken to WDW/DL.

BOOM!

 

[bpadair32]

BOOM!

When did Piers Morgan join the Dis forums?

 

[jsmla]

I have been following this thread since yesterday and finally have a chance to chime in. We are DINKs and we can well afford to vacation even with the price increases. But, I am in the camp of the value is no longer there. Price increases are a part of business, and I have no problem paying the increase as long as the product I am buying remains, at the very least, the same quality of which I started purchasing it. We have chosen to spend our vacations for the last 10 years almost exclusively at WDW. In all of those trips we have never ventured off property, we had no desire to, as everything we wanted was there; great food, adult beverages, live entertainment (Off Kilter, Mo’Rockin’ and Mulch, Sweat and Shears to name a few), unique souvenirs , all with great quality.
However in the last few trips I have been seeing the decline in the quality. The quality of the merchandise is deplorable. I bought a Tower of Terror mug on our May 2015 trip and the lettering is already coming off. We are DVC owners at BCV and the maintenance of the villas is not what it was 10 years ago, but yet my maintenance fees have increased. They have eliminated all of the live entertainment (that mattered to me at least) . This deterioration has been met with increasing prices. For the first time since 2001 I do not have a trip planned.
I love Disney and I am allowed to be disappointed in the recent direction they have gone. I don’t think they “owe” me anything other than to maintain my investment with them at BCV. Will I go again, absolutely, but my trip (whenever that will be) will be split now with US/IOA as I would like to see what the dark side is doing. So, for those that believe that voting with my dollars will not amount to a hill of beans, well you are entitled to your opinions as I am to mine. And for those who believe that Disney does not monitor these boards as well as the other popular boards, you are mistaken as the owner of these boards has said as much in his earlier podcasts.

This is pretty much where I stand. I got involved in this thread because, to be honest, I was surprised by my own reaction and am working through deciding whether or not to renew my AP in February. (I have a Stay Play Dine package booked and planned to put the 10 Day ParkHopper toward my renewal.) Putting my thoughts down in a quasi-concrete form and reading the arguments pro and con are helpful to my decision making process.

Two days ago I was ready to dump the greedy so-and-sos forever. I canceled all of our dining (The 50% increase in Tables in Wonderland was particularly aggrieving to me.) and fired off many irate (and pointless) emails to every WDW address I could find. Yesterday I spent quite a bit of time putting stuff into perspective. I was just in the parks last month and the combination of increased crowds accompanied by a simultaneous decrease in the number and quality of the attractions/entertainment already had me somewhat less than satisfied. To receive back to back emails telling me that I would be paying even more for this dismished experience was more upsetting than I would have though it could be. To be frank, I felt ridiculous that I was upset at all. It's a theme park complex, albeit a very nice one, not some vitally important part of my life.

(Months ago we made plans to visit WDW during what later turned out to be one of our daughter's very few weeks off. When I first discovered this my reaction was, "Oh, isn't it too bad that we'll miss DD?" On Sunday my attitude did a 180. I cancelled the December trip and am in the process of booking that week to be spent with our daughter. I'm kind of appalled now that I ever even considered forgoing the rare opportunity to spend time with a beloved child so that I could go to a theme park where, by that time, I will have spent over three weeks of 2015.)

Now I'm in wait and see mode. We have beaucoup MYW tickets to use up so I think I'm going to forgo AP renewal. As for the rest, I'm going to wait and see, probably at least until my 45 day cancellation rolls around, maybe until the new "lands" open. I'm very shallow and a lot could depend on just how cruddy of a winter I have.

Disney does weird things to some people!

 

[Gr8t Fan]

I can't speak for others that have posted, but I have had private conversations with a couple of them and I think that they would agree with me. It is not a lack of empathy. I understand the situation they are in, I was once their myself. The problem many of us have is with the entitlement culture that has been created the last several decades in this country that leads people to believe that Disney should not be allowed to raise prices because then they can't afford it. No matter what the price is, everyone does have a shot at it, and people only make you feel like a lesser being if you let them.

It's there, not their.

 

[Madteaparty001]

I think the end of the price increases will come when people are embarrassed to admit that they took a Disney vacation.

I'm already there, have a trip in a few weeks and one in December to see the lights before they're gone. It's booked on points but the way everyone has reacted to the first trip (even though that's paid with points as well) we're not telling anyone we're going. No one we know can see the value in going anymore, they see the price and can't justify it, when I'm out of points I won't either. Such a shame. I grew up going to Florida every year, my parents make 6 digits and they can't justify the price for what you get now, they'd rather spend their money on their lake house, steak every week and bottles of wine, can't blame them.

ETA: I mean credit card rewards not DVC points.

 

[hopemax]

I am neither an economist nor a sociologist so will refrain from posting a grand thesis on either aspect. I just know that something inside me snapped with this latest round of increases. Maybe it was just one too many of those "Look at what we've done for you just because we lurrrve you so very much!" Disney emails that, in actuality was announcing something that I decidedly did not want. For the first time I agree with my DH's opinion that I'm an idiot when it comes to Disney. He once said that they could package mouse poop, wrap it up in Mickey paper, tie it with a Minnie bow and I would stand in line to buy it. For the first time I feel foolish.

I have no idea why this round of increases bothers me so much but, after 25 years, I may be done.

ETA: We won't be canceling this next trip-we have plans to meet up with friends from out of the country whom we only see once a year-but I did cancel our December trip. We'll visit our daughter instead. She's lived away for her residency for almost two years now and has very little vacation time. We'll spend time with her when she's off and see the sights while she works. My husband has limited time off and, as I sit here now, I can't believe that I thought that yet another visit to a theme park took priority over family.

All this over what for me amounts to a less than $200 increase! I'm not deep enough to figure out why, why now, why this price hike. I just know that my attitude has definitely changed.

I'm not either (bolded), but I occasionally like to play one on the internet (and I once stayed at a Holiday Inn Express!). But Disney benefits from a strong emotional bond people develop. I like to compare Disney to more like a relationship. Ever had a bad boyfriend that despite what your friends and family were saying, you couldn't just drop...until one day something small happened and you just realized you were an idiot, and why didn't you see it before? It's the same type of thing.

People don't always react rationally, and no one should expect them too, but somehow people still expect that before people give something up, they don't get angry. That they will logically, and calmly just walk away. People can only rationalize so long, and it's often a little thing that causes people to snap, leave a relationship, leave a job. That's why we call it the "straw that broke the camel's back." And this wasn't exactly a straw, and more like a whole bale. FP+ was a bale too, people who had been coming for forever having to completely find a new way to visit the parks that worked for them. Closed attractions, replacements not coming for 5 yrs...it's a lot of bales of straw.

And I'm sorry for your loss. Because it is like a relationship, it hurts when it ends! A lot!