preliminary unconfirmed pricing information for new bungalows

[davedmaine]

The Orlando "market" (I have an Interest) is bizarre...

They dumped the phoney houses immediately onto the bank market In 08-09...allowing them to clear and rebound and have a nice 12-present move back towards a reasonable equilibrium.

That as opposed to my market - where people held out to "not lose money"...also know as hoping to score a sale price that there house was never gonna be worth.

It was a slight sunbelt advantage.

But nothing had changed in the mom and pop housing market in Orlando...nobody builds a livae life there with a home...there's no money in the job market. In order to be comfortable you better have it first before relocation. That's a generalization...but it statistically holds.

The market seems to be sputtering/stagnating.
Another bubble pop (Europe, Asia, college debt, consumer debt, wealth gap...take your pick) will destroy the housing market there within a matter of weeks. Takes years to even hope to rebuild.

Just like Disney's own employees...they got crushed in the early 2000 downswing...went in deep in the housing bubble...got stuck there without a net...and now aren't anywhere better off...always getting less of the pie due to "market forces".

Such is economic life when you get 340 days a year of sun... Now back to your regularly scheduled programming.

Ps...I bet there are idiot construction companies all over Orlando right now with cranes everywhere - preparing for a "southern Influx" that ended now decades ago.

This could be the best post I've ever read on these forums..

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Who would spend that much money for a room in Disney??? I would go to Hawaii for what they are charging. In my opinion they have ruined the Polynesian. If they want to add more to Disney build the parks up at a faster pace. I'm taking a break for the first time this year. Nothing new to draw me in. Same rides and fewer of them.

Building rides doesn't equal direct profits...but raising prices and building timeshares guarantees them.

If some would stop calling me ( and others) names and read what's being said they may just realize that this IS MY ENTIRE POINT !!!!! $&!?8&@"!!??

and only the consumers wallet can stop it/ reverse it. Be selective...for gods sakes!

Ok...rant over.

 

[eeyorepixie]

Who would spend that much money for a room in Disney??? I would go to Hawaii for what they are charging. In my opinion they have ruined the Polynesian. If they want to add more to Disney build the parks up at a faster pace. I'm taking a break for the first time this year. Nothing new to draw me in. Same rides and fewer of them.

I completely agree

 

[mkunichi]

Why is it that people see someone criticizing WDW and think that that gives them a license to criticize actual individuals? Why not offer counterpoints instead?

This is really most of the reason I've pretty much quit posting. Not all of the reason of course but it gets tiring.

Ignore the rhetoric and focus on the posts or parts of posts that you find interesting. I guess I'm used to it from my work - blah blah blan, rant, rave, etc. me: Well, now that you've got all that out of your system, what can we do now to solve the problem?

Back to the topic, I wonder if that many people would have enough points to spend a week in these? I still see this in terms of dollars (and that's terrifying) but points could be another matter. I think that I would have to have a better fountain in the lobby first though.

I'm with Suger Mag - split stays is how I see most people doing it with points. Either that or families who are cutting back from a yearly trip to trips every two or three years will bank/borrow points to get enough for a week. Or in my case I'll bank/borrow into a split stay or a less-than-a-week stay.

Who would spend that much money for a room in Disney??? I would go to Hawaii for what they are charging.

That's not the choice that's going through people's minds. It's not, "I have $14k, should I go to WDW, Hawaii or Bora Bora?" It's "We want to go to WDW for 4 days and I have $14k to spend. Where should I stay?" If I take 3 one week vacations a year from the East Coast I'm not going to Bora Bora three times. I'm not even going to Hawaii three times. It's going to be Hawaii for a week or two, WDW for a week and Turkey or somewhere in Europe for a week or so.

Another factor for DVC owners is that points and money become somewhat disconnected. You start thinking of spending points as not like "spending real money". Even super-rational me sometimes thought about "how do I use up my points" in the years before I discovered the ease of renting DVC stays through rental agents.

In my opinion they have ruined the Polynesian. If they want to add more to Disney build the parks up at a faster pace. I'm taking a break for the first time this year. Nothing new to draw me in. Same rides and fewer of them.

Not sure what you mean about how the bungalows ruins the rest of the the Poly? Isn't the rest of the Poly unaffected? Is it ruined just because it exists and it bothers you?

Building rides doesn't equal direct profits...but raising prices and building timeshares guarantees them.

If some would stop calling me ( and others) names and read what's being said they may just realize that this IS MY ENTIRE POINT !!!!! $&!?8&@"!!??

and only the consumers wallet can stop it/ reverse it. Be selective...for gods sakes!

Ok...rant over.

I think others have said that Disney is seeing a change in the visitor marketplace. Domestic visitors staying onsite are declining except for DVC. Overseas/emerging market visitors staying offsite are increasing.

Sadly, I think raising ticket prices and selling more DVC might be a winning economic strategy. I wonder if there's another way of capturing more spend from the latter (overseas) market?

 

[mkunichi]

Hey wait. I read the DVC thread referenced upthread and noticed that Poly already has a number of high-priced cash suites going for $2k-$3k a night like the King Kamehameha suite. They *are* the same approximate 50% more square footage but are also priced in the stratosphere. The Princess and Ambassador suites aren't that far behind on price, going for $1600 to $2400 a night.

So what's the big deal about the bungalows?

 

[beer dave]

Hey wait. I read the DVC thread referenced upthread and noticed that Poly already has a number of high-priced cash suites going for $2k-$3k a night like the King Kamehameha suite. They *are* the same approximate 50% more square footage but are also priced in the stratosphere. The Princess and Ambassador suites aren't that far behind on price, going for $1600 to $2400 a night.

So what's the big deal about the bungalows?

As said previously, (not necessarily in this thread) my only concern is that the bungalows are adding a huge amount of membership points to the DVC pool that most likely will not be used in the bungalows... resulting in decreased availability across the boards for existing DVC members. 25% of the points at the Poly are allotted to 20 bungalows, while the other 75% is divided among 360 studios. With the exorbitant point cost of the bungalows, it is unlikely (IMO) that many DVC owners will reserve them, leaving a 25% hole in the POLY bookings. That is the deal. If they built the bungalows as exclusive high end rentals only, they wouldn't affect DVC... but build them DVC with possibility of renting them when no one takes them with points, DVC owners (new ones buying at the POLY) pay for the construction of the bungalows, but their point purchases (at least 25% of them) get bled into the entire DVC pool as reservations at other DVC resorts due to lack of availability at the POLY.

 

[Laketravis]

Domestic visitors staying onsite are declining except for DVC. Overseas/emerging market visitors staying offsite are increasing....

I'm genuinely interested in where you obtained this information and what the actual figures are?

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Hey wait. I read the DVC thread referenced upthread and noticed that Poly already has a number of high-priced cash suites going for $2k-$3k a night like the King Kamehameha suite. They *are* the same approximate 50% more square footage but are also priced in the stratosphere. The Princess and Ambassador suites aren't that far behind on price, going for $1600 to $2400 a night.

So what's the big deal about the bungalows?

They flood points into the system that can convert into 10 STUDIOS somewhere else...artificially creating "demand" and eliminating "supply"

 

[Tomader]

Ignore the rhetoric and focus on the posts or parts of posts that you find interesting. I guess I'm used to it from my work - blah blah blan, rant, rave, etc. me: Well, now that you've got all that out of your system, what can we do now to solve the problem?


I'm with Suger Mag - split stays is how I see most people doing it with points. Either that or families who are cutting back from a yearly trip to trips every two or three years will bank/borrow points to get enough for a week. Or in my case I'll bank/borrow into a split stay or a less-than-a-week stay.


That's not the choice that's going through people's minds. It's not, "I have $14k, should I go to WDW, Hawaii or Bora Bora?" It's "We want to go to WDW for 4 days and I have $14k to spend. Where should I stay?" If I take 3 one week vacations a year from the East Coast I'm not going to Bora Bora three times. I'm not even going to Hawaii three times. It's going to be Hawaii for a week or two, WDW for a week and Turkey or somewhere in Europe for a week or so.

Another factor for DVC owners is that points and money become somewhat disconnected. You start thinking of spending points as not like "spending real money". Even super-rational me sometimes thought about "how do I use up my points" in the years before I discovered the ease of renting DVC stays through rental agents.


Not sure what you mean about how the bungalows ruins the rest of the the Poly? Isn't the rest of the Poly unaffected? Is it ruined just because it exists and it bothers you?


I think others have said that Disney is seeing a change in the visitor marketplace. Domestic visitors staying onsite are declining except for DVC. Overseas/emerging market visitors staying offsite are increasing.

Sadly, I think raising ticket prices and selling more DVC might be a winning economic strategy. I wonder if there's another way of capturing more spend from the latter (overseas) market?[/QUOTED Disney has ruined the Poly. The main lobby with the waterfall was a wonderful sight. Now it feels like I am walking into an office building. They took away the "ambiance" that was the Poly. I Don't care about the bungalows or the outside area. They may have stayed somewhat unaffected but the main building was what represented the Poly to me. Change is not always a good thing!

 

[clsteve]

The interesting thing with the Bungalows is the big disparity between what's happening with PVB and what the current DVC demographic is or as it's perceived on this board.

I just go back to some of the discussions we've had in previous threads. The perception seems to be that DVC is/has been geared towards the mid-to-upper middle class family that's still cost conscious, brings food, cooks meals, etc. In other words, they're looking to maximize the investment based not only on long term lodging savings, but also on long term ancillary savings over the length of contract.

Just focusing on the Bungalows, based on the current demographic, how does it benefit Disney to even have them if the majority of the current demographic is only going to splurge on a one or 2 night split stay in them once in a lifetime after just buying in with 200-500 points or so? Kind of a "DVC reward" accommodation.

Maybe they don’t need to care, as long as all Poly points are purchased

Conversely, while I'm a firm believer that there's no limit in the demographic that would rent and fill those 20 units as nightly units at 2K plus just based on location and all the other things we've discussed, is it the same demographic that's going to want to make that long term investment and then make their own bed each day or stock for and cook 6 meals in a week?

So maybe they also don't need to care because they're certain they can fill them with nightly cash customers

So, either Disney truly feels there is a Luxury DVC Market that's going to purchase 2 grand in points based on now providing unique luxury DVC accomodations, or there's another strategy, it would seem.

 

[Suger Mag]

The interesting thing with the Bungalows is the big disparity between what's happening with PVB and what the current DVC demographic is or as it's perceived on this board.

I just go back to some of the discussions we've had in previous threads. The perception seems to be that DVC is/has been geared towards the mid-to-upper middle class family that's still cost conscious, brings food, cooks meals, etc. In other words, they're looking to maximize the investment based not only on long term lodging savings, but also on long term ancillary savings over the length of contract.

LOL that is us... we always bring food from home, even when we fly; and we use the kitchen for the majority of our meals ... cooking and packing a lunch.

So, either Disney truly feels there is a Luxury DVC Market that's going to purchase 2 grand in points based on now providing unique luxury DVC accomodations, or there's another strategy, it would seem.

there are lots of folks who own huge amounts of points... the 1000+ point thread is going strong . I think there is going to be a big novelty effect for the first few years that will keep the bungalows relatively full.
I think you will see more availiility on the weekends and sun- thurs hard to get as they will be booked in split stays.

What will be interesting in what happens in a couple of years. Also will they treat a cash guest differently than those staying on points. It can't be too hard to order daily housekeeping for such a small set of rooms

 

[Andrew015]

The interesting thing with the Bungalows is the big disparity between what's happening with PVB and what the current DVC demographic is or as it's perceived on this board.

I just go back to some of the discussions we've had in previous threads. The perception seems to be that DVC is/has been geared towards the mid-to-upper middle class family that's still cost conscious, brings food, cooks meals, etc. In other words, they're looking to maximize the investment based not only on long term lodging savings, but also on long term ancillary savings over the length of contract.

Funny thing is, the marketing machine will continue the "DVC Value" rally cry to the lemmings, but the reality is, 99% of Poly buyers are going to be relegated to Studio accommodations. It's pretty hard to cook your own meals in a studio, thus forcing everyone into the incredibly overpriced food offerings.

Just focusing on the Bungalows, based on the current demographic, how does it benefit Disney to even have them if the majority of the current demographic is only going to splurge on a one or 2 night split stay in them once in a lifetime after just buying in with 200-500 points or so? Kind of a "DVC reward" accommodation.

Maybe they don’t need to care, as long as all Poly points are purchased

Honestly, I don't think Disney will care if the bungalows are ever booked. I think they were created for 2 very strategic reasons: 1.) as a marketing tool to help sell Poly DVC to the lemmings, even though 99% of said lemmings will never be able to afford a night's stay in them, and 2.) as a point vacuum to artificially inflate demand, as has already been discussed. And if anyone with more money than common sense is willing to shell out for a few nights stay, that's just gravy.

So, either Disney truly feels there is a Luxury DVC Market that's going to purchase 2 grand in points based on now providing unique luxury DVC accomodations, or there's another strategy, it would seem.

I'm definitely voting for the "other strategy". Even if there is a small market segment for "luxury DVC", I think filling that niche would simply be a byproduct of the desire/need to create a "point vacuum". While I hate the reality of this strategy to its core, I can't deny the brilliance. Perhaps it is unbeknown to Disney, but they already have a "Villain's Themed" 5th gate - it resides in their very own corporate headquarters.

 

[clsteve]

there are lots of folks who own huge amounts of points... the 1000+ point thread is going strong . I think there is going to be a big novelty effect for the first few years that will keep the bungalows relatively full.
I think you will see more availiility on the weekends and sun- thurs hard to get as they will be booked in split stays.

What will be interesting in what happens in a couple of years. Also will they treat a cash guest differently than those staying on points. It can't be too hard to order daily housekeeping for such a small set of rooms

Wow, had no idea there was a large cadre of mega-point holders That's interesting.

and agree the pudding's proof will come a few years down the road as far as how/how much the cash guest plays into it....

 

[clsteve]

Funny thing is, the marketing machine will continue the "DVC Value" rally cry to the lemmings, but the reality is, 99% of Poly buyers are going to be relegated to Studio accommodations. It's pretty hard to cook your own meals in a studio, thus forcing everyone into the incredibly overpriced food offerings.

So, if after a few years those PVB DVC'ers figure this out, that's why it potentially puts significant pressure on the 1-2 bedrooms in the rest of the system. Makes sense...

Honestly, I don't think Disney will care if the bungalows are ever booked. I think they were created for 2 very strategic reasons: 1.) as a marketing tool to help sell Poly DVC to the lemmings, even though 99% of said lemmings will never be able to afford a night's stay in them, and 2.) as a point vacuum to artificially inflate demand, as has already been discussed. And if anyone with more money than common sense is willing to shell out for a few nights stay, that's just gravy.

"Someday Honey, after I get that big promotion, This is where we're staying....."

I'm definitely voting for the "other strategy". Even if there is a small market segment for "luxury DVC", I think filling that niche would simply be a byproduct of the desire/need to create a "point vacuum". While I hate the reality of this strategy to its core, I can't deny the brilliance. Perhaps it is unbeknown to Disney, but they already have a "Villain's Themed" 5th gate - it resides in their very own corporate headquarters.

True that.

There seems to be no end in new ways to leverage a Castle, a monorail and some fireworks. Brilliant, no doubt.....

 

[ArwenMarie]

I don't know about the DVC angle, but I do think these will easily rent out for cash.

They sleep eight, so you could have two families in there, or family plus grandparents, etc.

I think the nostalgia and love for the Poly is just so high that they will be full near-constantly, whether through DVC or cash.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I don't know about the DVC angle, but I do think these will easily rent out for cash.

They sleep eight, so you could have two families in there, or family plus grandparents, etc.

I think the nostalgia and love for the Poly is just so high that they will be full near-constantly, whether through DVC or cash.

I would agree...

It's not that they built 20 condos at a huge price that matters...

It's the capital upfront and the hundreds of thousands of points dumped into the DVC system that is our of whack

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Wow, had no idea there was a large cadre of mega-point holders That's interesting.

and agree the pudding's proof will come a few years down the road as far as how/how much the cash guest plays into it....

No...there are...

There's a small, but significant block of owners... Almost all coming from the "pre OKW" buying...

That have systematically devote more of their money to buying 150, 200, and up blocks of every new development.

You used to see signatures on the posts with point totals & icons of 3,4,5 different spots.

I like to call it the "grandpa" crowd...as from the discussions it seemed to be alot of baby boomers who had done well and developed a Disney obsession.

Those people will stay in the poly bungalows...

But as I said before...those that are buying 250, 350, 400 points at the poly will not.

Which means they get out of the fence and rampage the paddocks (Jurassic park Trex reference)

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Funny thing is, the marketing machine will continue the "DVC Value" rally cry to the lemmings, but the reality is, 99% of Poly buyers are going to be relegated to Studio accommodations. It's pretty hard to cook your own meals in a studio, thus forcing everyone into the incredibly overpriced food offerings.

Honestly, I don't think Disney will care if the bungalows are ever booked. I think they were created for 2 very strategic reasons: 1.) as a marketing tool to help sell Poly DVC to the lemmings, even though 99% of said lemmings will never be able to afford a night's stay in them, and 2.) as a point vacuum to artificially inflate demand, as has already been discussed. And if anyone with more money than common sense is willing to shell out for a few nights stay, that's just gravy.

I'm definitely voting for the "other strategy". Even if there is a small market segment for "luxury DVC", I think filling that niche would simply be a byproduct of the desire/need to create a "point vacuum". While I hate the reality of this strategy to its core, I can't deny the brilliance. Perhaps it is unbeknown to Disney, but they already have a "Villain's Themed" 5th gate - it resides in their very own corporate headquarters.

Are you calling the Walt Disney company...and specifically "Disney development corp" a soulless, scheming, profit driven group of cutthroats?

That can't be...STOP RUINING MY MAGIC!!!


But back to the guts of the story...one of my big regrets in the last 10+ years ( back to 98...actually) of heavy travel had been that I didnt do a "photolog" where I took pictures of the "save up to __% off future stays) tabs that they placed into the sell books at the kiosks...
It would be very telling and borderline oxymoronic...

As prices and inflation have Increased across the board...the "savings" to new members have dropped like a Rock - by their own admission.

 

[Andrew015]

Are you calling the Walt Disney company...and specifically "Disney development corp" a soulless, scheming, profit driven group of cutthroats?

That can't be...STOP RUINING MY MAGIC!!!

Sorry, where are my manners? Let me cover my "negative comments" with some pixie dust for you... ..........

But back to the guts of the story...one of my big regrets in the last 10+ years ( back to 98...actually) of heavy travel had been that I didnt do a "photolog" where I took pictures of the "save up to __% off future stays) tabs that they placed into the sell books at the kiosks...
It would be very telling and borderline oxymoronic...

As prices and inflation have Increased across the board...the "savings" to new members have dropped like a Rock - by their own admission.

They have essentially ruined DVC for new owners by eliminating the value proposition that once existed. My only fear is that they are going to create havoc for existing owners, too. If the over-the-water Tee-Pees do end up happening at WL, I may very well be subjected to the same "point vacuum" as we are seeing at the Poly, unless of course they do something similar to the "old" vs "new" contracts like we saw with Old Key West. Regardless of that outcome, I think all DVC owners, old and new alike, are going to see booking availabilities at the 7-month window turn to crap. This won't happen overnight, but it will be a slow erosion process that I see no way of avoiding. This "point vacuum" thing is a really serious issue that can/will change the DVC experience for everyone.

I just couldn't imagine shelling out $160/point for the Poly and not being guaranteed a room in my own home resort at the 12-month window.

 

[ArwenMarie]

Would someone explain the point vacuum to me?