Praying Won't Affect Heart Patients

[wvrevy]

I've begun worshipping the Sun for a number of reasons. First of all, unlike some other gods I could mention, I can see the Sun. It's there for me every day. And the things it brings me are quite apparent all the time: heat, light, food, a lovely day. There's no mystery, no one asks for money, I don't have to dress up, and there's no boring pageantry. And interestingly enough, I have found that the prayers I offer to the sun and the prayers I formerly offered to God are all answered at about the same 50-percent rate.
-- George Carlin, Brain Droppings

You know who I pray to? Joe Pesci. Joe Pesci. Two reasons; first of all, I think he's a good actor. Okay. To me, that counts. Second; he looks like a guy who can get things done. Joe Pesci doesn't (mess) around. Doesn't (mess) around. In fact, Joe Pesci came through on a couple of things that God was having trouble with. For years I asked God to do something about my noisy neighbor with the barking dog. Joe Pesci straightened that (um...evil gentleman) out with one visit.
I noticed that of all the prayers I used to offer to God, and all the prayers that I now offer to Joe Pesci, are being answered at about the same 50 percent rate. Half the time I get what I want. Half the time I don't. Same as God 50-50. Same as the four leaf clover, the horse shoe, the rabbit's foot, and the wishing well. Same as the mojo man. Same as the voodoo lady who tells your fortune by squeezing the goat's testicles. It's all the same; 50-50. So just pick your superstitions, sit back, make a wish and enjoy yourself.
George Carlin's stand-up (can't recall which show it was from)

Those two quotes pretty much sum up what I think about the subject.

But for those that say "you can't measure prayer"...my question would simply be, why not? Set up a blind study and have people fervently praying for one group of patients and nobody praying for another, don't tell the patients if they're in one group or the other, and observe the results. It's completely scientifically accurate, and if prayer really "works" should show a significant statistical difference between the two groups, assuming you make the sample large enough.

 

[Charade]

You and me both! People clearly have far too much time on their hands to be studying some of this nonsense. There are way too many contradictory studies these days.

NASA is spending $50 million (of OUR money I might add) to study ketchup. They want to find out why it is that when it's in a glass bottle sometimes it doesn't come out and other times it flows out. Here's an idea, BUY A PLASTIC BOTTLE!

FYI.

http://exploration.nasa.gov/articles/07jun_elastic_fluids-liftoff.html

 

[Charade]

But for those that say "you can't measure prayer"...my question would simply be, why not? Set up a blind study and have people fervently praying for one group of patients and nobody praying for another, don't tell the patients if they're in one group or the other, and observe the results. It's completely scientifically accurate, and if prayer really "works" should show a significant statistical difference between the two groups, assuming you make the sample large enough.

It won't work because the effects of prayer aren't constant.

 

[auntpolly]

Yes, there are too many senseless studies, but I doubt people would feel the same way had the conclusion been the opposite. Money well spent at that point.

I think I would still feel the same. I've started just every time I read alot of those studies, whether I agree with them or not.

Of course, I'm not a moron, medical science has done some miraculous things and continues to do so, but all these studies; who is funding them, for one thing. I think sometimes somebody has a special interest and gets researchers to come up with adventageous results.

And sometimes I think they are just trying to make a name for themselves, making alarming claims about the benefits or dangers of everything.

Did you see the recent ones saying sunscreen wasn't really much help? . In most cases our own common sense is more valuable.

 

[ead79]

As a believer, knowing people are praying for me during a difficult time is uplifting. However, it seems odd to me that the study would focus on those being prayed for by strangers for some reason. I would think most people are being prayed for by friends/family.

Also, prayers don’t always result in healing. Sometimes the answer to our prayers isn’t what we’re hoping for.

 

[wvrevy]

It won't work because the effects of prayer aren't constant.

Oh yeah...Forgot about that little "loophole" that's built into the system. It's the relief calve without which religion would seem even more absurd to the rational mind. After all...you have to have some "reason" for god not answering your prayers, so build in the "loophole" that "not all prayers are answered in the same way". Positively ingenious.

 

[auntpolly]

Also, prayers don’t always result in healing. Sometimes the answer to our prayers isn’t what we’re hoping for.

Excellent point! I think most Christians don't direct God on what to do ( I mean they shouldn't anyway, it's not black magic) as much as ask Him for help and guidance.

 

[ead79]

I totally agree. Sometimes what’s truly best for us is something we can’t see. Especially when it comes to death. On this side of heaven, it’s awfully hard to grasp, but I believe it’s so wonderful there that for the sick person the outcome couldn’t be any better than heaven. Of course, it’s always so tough on those of us who still miss the loved one.

 

[cats mom]

But for those that say "you can't measure prayer"...my question would simply be, why not? Set up a blind study and have people fervently praying for one group of patients and nobody praying for another, don't tell the patients if they're in one group or the other, and observe the results. It's completely scientifically accurate, and if prayer really "works" should show a significant statistical difference between the two groups, assuming you make the sample large enough.

Ummm pretty simple answer if you ask me...
Would even the most religious person claim they get a yes to every prayer? Can't God say no?

Like I said before I doubt this type of study would sway anyone no matter what the conclusion or what side of the issue folks are on to begin with.

I still say it was a waste of $$$.

 

[jimmiej]

Oh yeah...Forgot about that little "loophole" that's built into the system. It's the relief calve without which religion would seem even more absurd to the rational mind. After all...you have to have some "reason" for god not answering your prayers, so build in the "loophole" that "not all prayers are answered in the same way". Positively ingenious.

You're a rude person! There, now I feel better.

Now, let's discuss prayer. The Bible often compares our relationship to God as a child/parent relationship. wvrevy, do you always say "yes" to your kid's requests? Or do you sometimes say yes, sometimes no, and sometimes wait a while? God knows what's best for us just as we know what's best for our own kids because we can see the big picture.

 

[dadto1]

You're a rude person! There, now I feel better.

Can I get a witness from the congregation!

 

[Ub_Iwerks]

I'm praying that this thread will die very soon.

 

[MouseWorshipin]

As a fairly religious person and a nurse, I'm gonna throw my $.02 in here.

I don't believe that prayer will change the outcome of disease. I've seen a lot of very good people not get their prayers answered. To say that YOUR prayers were answered implies that God cared enough about you to answer your prayers, but not enough about others to answer theirs. It is basically a slap in the face to someone who's kid/spouse/parent died even though they were a very good person and prayed very hard.

I've heard people say, "There but for the Grace of God go I," and it burns a little. Sometimes I want to say, "So, God decided not to Grace those folks? He singled YOU out for His Grace? What makes you so special?" Of course, I would never, ever say it, but it ticks me off just the same. I cannot help but think it is a little arrogant to believe that God answers your prayers, but not others'.

In the end, everyone dies. You just can't pray someone into living, no matter what.

Again, I'm fairly religious, and if I had seen that prayer made ANY difference, I'd sure say so.

I do believe that people - patients, family members, anyone who believes in it - can gain strength and peace from prayer, or be soothed by a member of the clergy. That I do see. I pray for my patients (and their families), but I don't pray that God will take someone's mother's cancer away. I don't think he's getting anymore involved in that than he is in the Little League teams that are praying for a Win.

I don't know why God, in His infinite wisdom, allows people to suffer so badly and die. But I do know that he isn't making the choices based on who is praying and who isn't.

If you read this far, thanks. And flame away, I know it is coming.

 

[cardaway]

Interesting that people seemed to be in favor of the similar thread that found that prayer may be benficial to healing. Guess the reaction all depends on the outcome of the study.

As things stand I believe the study has just as much merit as the other "healing" study.

 

[In a hurry]

Dumb question, but was that other study with people praying for themselves, so that there was a more personal involvement? You know, peace bringing healing?

 

[cardaway]

Dumb question, but was that other study with people praying for themselves, so that there was a more personal involvement? You know, peace bringing healing?

Don't know about the other study but it makes sense that praying would be beneficial if it made them more peaceful. Same as meditation.

 

[auntpolly]

Interesting that people seemed to be in favor of the similar thread that found that prayer may be benficial to healing. Guess the reaction all depends on the outcome of the study.

As things stand I believe the study has just as much merit as the other "healing" study.

No, what we're saying is that we don't need a study to know that God listens to our prayers. I don't pay attention to those studies about what to eat. That whole carb thing -- knew it was a joke.

I don't need scientists to do any numbers crunch on what my odds are with God .

 

[MinnyGranny62]

I personally don't care what these studies say. I believe in prayers and would want friends and strangers praying for me if I was in need. It truly was a waste of money spent on this study.

Oh ....and here is a prayer sent for those that don't believe.

 

[U2_rocks]

I just don't believe that there's a God who is that involved in each person's life, and will change the outcome of a critical illness just because people are praying for it! That would be micro-management, and I just could never believe in a higher power/creator doing that. That micro-management would kind of negate the free will we were supposedly given, wouldn't it?

I think people can greatly help their own peace of mind, decision-making etc. by praying. And I believe praying for others makes people feel like they are DOING something - important in serious medical situations where people feel helpless. I just don't that prayer actually gains you what you were praying for, other than simply by chance.

Just my opinion of course.

 

[U2_rocks]

Don't know about the other study but it makes sense that praying would be beneficial if it made them more peaceful. Same as meditation.

Agreed. Praying for yourself can be beneficial. Even if no God is listening and responding, the prayer still helps. It's not the same as praying for someone else - it doesn't help the someone else in the same way. God has to be listening and granting the prayer for that to work, and I don't believe our creator operates that way.