POT (Proof of Time) Race Equivalency Cutoff Confirmed Times

[kbenson13]

Yes and No.

The old A and B Corrals for the HM became s1 for Marathon Weekend HM solo event runners.

The old A and B Corrals for the M/Goofy/Dopey runners became s1 and s2 (therefore unchanged).

Thanks @DopeyBadger. So for HM weekends (Princess and W&D) is there a difference in QTs for the Halfs and the 2-course challenges (10K/HM)? Is your HM chart the relevant chart for all these races?

 

[DopeyBadger]

So for HM weekends (Princess and W&D) is there a difference in QTs for the Halfs and the 2-course challenges (10K/HM)?

No.

Is your HM chart the relevant chart for all these races?

Yes.

Whether you sign up for the Princes HM as a solo event or as part of the Challenge you will be assigned based on the POT submitted (which needs to be 2 hours or less, or the equivalent). Same goes for Wine and Dine HM as a solo event or part of the Challenge. There is no difference for these weekends between solo or Challenge.

So you can use the HM race equivalency cutoff chart for the following current races:

Princess HM
Princess Challenge
Wine and Dine HM
Wine and Dine Challenge
Marathon Weekend HM (as a solo event)

You use the M POT race equivalency chart for:

Marathon Weekend Marathon
Marathon Weekend Goofy
Marathon Weekend Dopey

****

One minor quibble. Wine and Dine had 4 starting groups. Marathon Weekend had 6 starting groups. So the information for non-POT starting group assignment is a grey area since we've only had two race weekends to base it on thus far. We'll see what Princess has in store in short order.

 

[GollyGadget]

Looks like Wine & Dine has expanded POT to 2:15 for the half and challenge. Hoping this will be good news for a lot of you!

 

[DopeyBadger]

Looks like Wine & Dine has expanded POT to 2:15 for the half and challenge. Hoping this will be good news for a lot of you!

View attachment 649315

Nice! That would be around a 1:01:22 10k for those interested.

 

[RunMagicalMiles]

Ran a 1:02:40 in November…so a 1:01 10k or 2:15 half (PR is 2:06 from 2018) is a nice goal for the spring

 

[azrivest]

Nice! That would be around a 1:01:22 10k for those interested.

My net time for Princess 10k was 1:01:45 ! I should not have stopped for Clarabelle

 

[DopeyBadger]

My net time for Princess 10k was 1:01:45 ! I should not have stopped for Clarabelle

Oh Clarabelle! It may end up being worth still submitting it based on what happened this last year. Those that narrowly missed the cutoff were appropriately placed in the first non-POT group.

 

[RunMagicalMiles]

I realized in the shower last night (ahh the best thinking happens there) that I have a 59:30 10K from a small 10K in 2019. Huzzah! I still want to work towards getting back to that speed this spring, but it's nice to know I have that to fall back on for Wine & Dine.

 

[Rogue224]

Would a 1:03:56 be too far out of range to try to submit?

 

[DopeyBadger]

Would a 1:03:56 be too far out of range to try to submit?

You could submit it. There's a 99.85% chance you'd be placed in the first non-POT group, a 0.1% chance of be placed in the last group, and a 0.05% chance of being placed in the POT group.

I have seen cases when the submitted POT is egregiously off (like a 2:30 HM submitted for a 2:00 POT cutoff) and instead of being placed in the 2:30 group, they were placed in the last group. But I've only seen that with egregiously far off submissions.

 

[azrivest]

It may end up being worth still submitting it based on what happened this last year. Those that narrowly missed the cutoff were appropriately placed in the first non-POT group.

I'm pretty sure I can aim for a <2:15 HM or equivalent. I've done it before. I've got a 15k on May 7th and a HM on June 5th.

 

[kps7795]

Nice! That would be around a 1:01:22 10k for those interested.

What, if anything, do you think this portends for the HM for Marathon Weekend?

 

[camaker]

What, if anything, do you think this portends for the HM for Marathon Weekend?

I would expect them to change the PoT requirements for the Marathon Weekend HM to align with the Wine & Dine requirements. Further, I expect them to expand the PoT range back to around 4:30 for the marathon. I think they've gotten a LOT of feedback that the newer PoT requirements were too tight and are looking for a happy medium.

 

[DopeyBadger]

What, if anything, do you think this portends for the HM for Marathon Weekend?

I expect something like this. Although Club rD may slide back a corral in each case. Unknown at this time.

 

[kps7795]

I expect something like this. Although Club rD may slide back a corral in each case. Unknown at this time.

View attachment 657077

I am hoping that runDisney will apply the 2:15 to the HM POT. Based upon my understanding of your projection, I need to shave 4 minutes off of my HM time to qualify for s3 for the marathon.

 

[striker1064]

How does runDisney handle the corrals for Dopey challengers - do they figure out your marathon corral and work backwards from there (meaning you'll be in the same starting group all 4 races)? I have a sub-2 HM, but it's not fast enough to qualify for S2 for the marathon, for example. So would I be in S3 for all the races? Is it the same bib like it is for other 2-course challenges?

 

[FFigawi]

How does runDisney handle the corrals for Dopey challengers - do they figure out your marathon corral and work backwards from there (meaning you'll be in the same starting group all 4 races)? I have a sub-2 HM, but it's not fast enough to qualify for S2 for the marathon, for example. So would I be in S3 for all the races? Is it the same bib like it is for other 2-course challenges?

Dopey runners get two bibs, one for the 5/10 and another for the half/full. Historically, the corrals for the 5/10 have been assigned by the estimated pace and finishing time people submit during registration. The corrals for the half and full are assigned based on proof of time. In your case, you’ll most likely be in s3 for the half and the full.

 

[opusone]

How does runDisney handle the corrals for Dopey challengers - do they figure out your marathon corral and work backwards from there (meaning you'll be in the same starting group all 4 races)? I have a sub-2 HM, but it's not fast enough to qualify for S2 for the marathon, for example. So would I be in S3 for all the races? Is it the same bib like it is for other 2-course challenges?

You do get two bibs for Dopey (one bib for the 5k/10k, and another bib for the half/full); however, everyone that I knew who was doing Dopey received the same start group for both bibs. For example, my proof of time correctly put me in the s2 group for half/full, and my 5k/10k bib also was in s2, but based on my pace selection on the 5k/10k (less than 8 minute pace), I should have been in s1 for those races. My daughter, who was only running the 5k and 10k (and also selected "less than 8 minute pace"), was put in s1 for each of those races.

 

[DopeyBadger]

I have a sub-2 HM, but it's not fast enough to qualify for S2 for the marathon, for example.

This is a common question, so we'll cover someone's time that's in the middle using these tables.



A runner has a 1:58:00 HM time that is POT submittable.
-If they run the HM as a solo event and submit the 1:58 HM time, then they will be assigned s1. That is because the HM time is less than 2 hours. See bottom table.
-If they run the M as a solo event and submit the 1:58 HM time, then they will be assigned s3 for the M. That is because the HM time is between 1:53:46-2:07:48 which is the estimated bucket for s3.
-If they run Dopey and submit the 1:58 HM time, then they will be assigned s3 for the HM and M. That is because the HM time is between 1:53:46-2:07:48 which is the estimated bucket for s3. In some years, the 1:58 HM POT would mean a s3 for the 5k/10k, and in other years they've assigned you based on the 5k/10k estimated pace submission at registration (editable up to the POT deadline).

So if you're running either the M/Goofy/Dopey, then you look at the top table. If you're running the HM as a solo event (or a HM Challenge weekend that doesn't include a M), then you look at the bottom table.

ETA - Added some additional clarifying language.

however, everyone that I knew who was doing Dopey received the same start group for both bibs. For example, my proof of time correctly put me in the s2 group for half/full, and my 5k/10k bib also was in s2, but based on my pace selection on the 5k/10k (less than 8 minute pace), I should have been in s1 for those races. My daughter, who was only running the 5k and 10k (and also selected "less than 8 minute pace") was put in s1 for each of those races.

This was a key change in 2022 vs prior Dopey years that had the "estimated pace" at registration for the 5k/10k. In year's past, the 5k/10k assignment was driven by your choice of "estimated pace". But based on the data, it seems like that was largely ignored in 2022. If you were a s2 for HM/M based on POT submission, then you were a s2 for 5k/10k despite putting "sub-8" as your estimated pace. I don't particularly like this change. This is like the early years of Dopey where there was no 5k/10k estimated pace submission for Dopey runners and their assignment was purely driven by their POT. I hope they go back to like it was in the middle years.

 

[striker1064]

Thanks everyone!

I suppose I should either train hard for one more attempt at S2 in September, or mentally prepare myself to potentially be in S3 for all 4 races. I'm actually not sure which one is more difficult!