POT (Proof of Time) Race Equivalency Cutoff Confirmed Times

[DopeyBadger]

These POT rules are soooo confusing! I had thought based on the original language that I just had to show a POT for a HM under 2 hrs, but now it seems like my 1:54 half isn't good for much since it's a minute slower than the number rD came up with? Trying not to be bitter about club rD taking over corral C....

I get it, but it's not a new thing. The cutoffs used to be 2:45 HM equivalent and 5:30 M equivalent. A 5:30 marathon converted to a half marathon using their calculation is a 2:36:30. So to submit a marathon POT you had to be faster than the cutoff they were using for if you were running a half marathon solo event. Same thing when it was 2:30/5:00 and the 5:00 hr marathon equaled a 2:21:52.

You're so close. There isn't a 10 mile or HM before Sept 30th that you couldn't squeeze an extra 15 seconds off (1:23:45)? If not, like @MissLiss279 said, if I were in your shoes I'd submit it.

 

[Blanchey]

has anyone got any experience entering a POT being outside the US.

I notice that some of the fields RunDisney ask you to complete include State. Being a UK runner this wont be a field i cant enter any details into this (Possibly county, but if its a drop down/select box then that wont be possible)

im just wondering if you select which country you wish to submit a time from if the fields change?

I know when ive emailed RunDisney before im forced to complete a US address before it allows me submit my email query (I just use the address of the magic kingdom)

I have a 1:42 POT from November 2019 from UK race and just want to know if i should be expecting issues trying to enter this.

TIA!

I submitted a Tokyo marathon POT for W&D and didn’t have any issues. It asks for ‘RACE CITY, STATE AND COUNTRY FOR PROOF OF TIME’ but it’s a typed field rather than a drop down so I just used city & country

 

[fatmanatee]

This might be a weird question but is there an easy way to find USATF certified races for POT? I'm having a hard time finding any info, which is weird because I live near NYC. Def have a shot at making it in one of the half marathon corrals via a 10k race but incredibly, NYRR isn't doing any 10ks this year and I don't see any indication that NYCRUNS races can be used for POT purposes.

 

[DopeyBadger]

This might be a weird question but is there an easy way to find USATF certified races for POT? I'm having a hard time finding any info, which is weird because I live near NYC. Def have a shot at making it in one of the half marathon corrals via a 10k race but incredibly, NYRR isn't doing any 10ks this year and I don't see any indication that NYCRUNS races can be used for POT purposes.

Don't worry about the USATF certified races part. In the past, many people have used non-USATF certified course races for POT. It just needs to be an official race with results posted online. Could they suddenly change their tune and focus on only USATF certified races? Maybe. But that sure would be a pickle for international runners.

But this link might help (link).

 

[MissLiss279]

This might be a weird question but is there an easy way to find USATF certified races for POT? I'm having a hard time finding any info, which is weird because I live near NYC. Def have a shot at making it in one of the half marathon corrals via a 10k race but incredibly, NYRR isn't doing any 10ks this year and I don't see any indication that NYCRUNS races can be used for POT purposes.

I would probably start here:
RunningInTheUSA

And then use the link @DopeyBadger provided to check if it is officially certified (if you really want to verify its certification).

 

[DopeyBadger]

Here's a post from when someone reached out to runDisney in Dec 2019 (link)

Thank you for reaching out. As long as the event was officially timed, has official results (which you have provided), and was accurately measured then you would be all set. All you would have to do is enter your proof into your registration prior to the deadline which is January 21, 2020 for the Star Wars Rival Run Weekend. We provided steps below to assist you. Please note that once the deadline passes, no updates will be accepted.

Instead of "USATF certified" they use the language of "accurately measured". To me, that means that runDisney would then have to verify whether or not each non-USATF certified course was/was not accurately measured for the purpose of accepting POT. I'd venture to guess that's not worth their time. Officially timed, and official online results from a real race. I have yet to read of someone submitting a non-USATF POT being denied (or placed in the last corral). Again, doesn't mean it won't happen moving forward, only that to my knowledge has not happened in the past.

 

[fatmanatee]

Here's a post from when someone reached out to runDisney in Dec 2019 (link)

Thank you for reaching out. As long as the event was officially timed, has official results (which you have provided), and was accurately measured then you would be all set. All you would have to do is enter your proof into your registration prior to the deadline which is January 21, 2020 for the Star Wars Rival Run Weekend. We provided steps below to assist you. Please note that once the deadline passes, no updates will be accepted.

Instead of "USATF certified" they use the language of "accurately measured". To me, that means that runDisney would then have to verify whether or not each non-USATF certified course was/was not accurately measured for the purpose of accepting POT. I'd venture to guess that's not worth their time. Officially timed, and official online results from a real race. I have yet to read of someone submitting a non-USATF POT being denied (or placed in the last corral). Again, doesn't mean it won't happen moving forward, only that to my knowledge has not happened in the past.

Ok that makes me feel better about this. Thank you and @MissLiss279 as well!

 

[Guidman]

I actually reached out to TrackShack last week about it since the POT I was planning to use had an out-of-date certification (when I asked the race director about it, he basically said it’s a money grab on USATFs part).

The response I got was:
In regards to certification, it just means the race adheres to USATF rules with one of them being that the course is accurately measured. So as long as it is accurately measured and the proof still follows the proof of time guidelines then you should be all set.

 

[GollyGadget]

This might be a weird question but is there an easy way to find USATF certified races for POT? I'm having a hard time finding any info, which is weird because I live near NYC. Def have a shot at making it in one of the half marathon corrals via a 10k race but incredibly, NYRR isn't doing any 10ks this year and I don't see any indication that NYCRUNS races can be used for POT purposes.

I've been stressing about this as well for a few weeks. There are no USATF certified races of the allowable distances nearby before the cutoff date. However, I have successfully used a non USATF certified race in the past and was placed appropriately in Corral B. This was in 2017 before they mentioned USATF on the runDisney site, hence my new nerves.

As mentioned, it would really make it difficult for any international runners if they were strict about USATF. I also find it hard to believe that they're checking for USATF certification on all the POTs. It's difficult enough to believe that they're clicking all the links people provide as proof, but to do another check to see that the course was certified would be very tedious and not worth their time.

 

[GreatLakes]

One more avenue to ensure the race you are running meets the requirements for certification is look for a Boston qualifier. If you are running a half that is part of a full that is a Boston qualifier I'm certain the course will meet runDisney POT requirements.

 

[HockeySteve]

For the ToT 10-miler, proof of time is needed for under a 90 min 10-miler.

Based on the earlier posted equivalency charts, this would roughly be a 54 min and some change 10k, correct?

 

[DopeyBadger]

Based on the earlier posted equivalency charts, this would roughly be a 54 min and some change 10k, correct?

Correct. Based on this calculation:

T2 = T1 X (D2/D1)^1.055

I believe the 10k equivalent to the 90 min 10 miler is 54:29.

 

[flav]

Alright, here is an updated POT cutoff estimates with confirmed values. They said there's some rounding in their values but these are close enough.

View attachment 590959

Admittedly, they are very close to the cutoffs I had estimated prior. So we're pretty close to the same calculation.

I had it as 10 miler = 1:24:50, HM = 1:53:36 for the Marathon POT.
I had it as 10k = 54:33, 10 miler = 1:31:12, M = 4:21:36 for the HM POT.

So the 10 mile and M conversion for the HM POT remain very advantageous from a time submitting standpoint.

One thing I'll add. I wouldn't be surprised to see Corral A and B above combined into a single POT corral. Since there's usually only 5% of the field in each, I could easily see runDisney combining these into a single 10-12% corral.

ETA: My inclusion of Club runDisney as its own corral between POT and non-POT is my guess only. This was not confirmed (nor did I ask) by runDisney.

When “being in the S2 corral for a future Dopey” becomes your pacing objective.

ETA: “Proof of time must be provided from an officially timed race on a USATF certified course reflecting results between January 1, 2019, and September 30, 2021…” for 2022 MW so an October 2nd Marathon won’t do.

 

[DopeyBadger]

ETA: “Proof of time must be provided from an officially timed race on a USATF certified course reflecting results between January 1, 2019, and September 30, 2021…” for 2022 MW so an October 2nd Marathon won’t do.

If they use the 2021 standards method, then yes you're right. If they use the 2018-2020 method which tended to be a mid-October date, then no a 10/2/22 might be ok.

But I'd venture to guess the 2021 system of cutoffs is more likely, except that I think the opening date might be sooner (not Jan 1, 2020 but more likely Jan 1, 2021). Aim for the 1:53:45 HM on a sooner date. I believe on an ideal day, you have a 100% chance of getting under 1:53:45. I think sub-1:50 is a reasonable goal.

 

[DopeyBadger]

Here is an updated POT to starting group chart based on the 2022 Marathon Weekend design (unofficially).

 

[lukemorenus]

Correct. Based on this calculation:

T2 = T1 X (D2/D1)^1.055

I believe the 10k equivalent to the 90 min 10 miler is 54:29.

Is 1.055 still your best estimate? I have an old spreadsheet that assumed 1.08 --- I'd like to update --- thanks

 

[DopeyBadger]

Is 1.055 still your best estimate? I have an old spreadsheet that assumed 1.08 --- I'd like to update --- thanks

Yes for a POT conversion of a 10k to a 10 mile or HM. Although I could remove all doubt and just ask them the 10 miler cutoffs like I’ve done in the past.

 

[lukemorenus]

Yes for a POT conversion of a 10k to a 10 mile or HM. Although I could remove all doubt and just ask them the 10 miler cutoffs like I’ve done in the past.

Thanks for the info!

 

[kbenson13]

So as you predicted they have combined the old corrals A and B into Corral 1?

 

[DopeyBadger]

So as you predicted they have combined the old corrals A and B into Corral 1?

Yes and No.

The old A and B Corrals for the HM became s1 for Marathon Weekend HM solo event runners.

The old A and B Corrals for the M/Goofy/Dopey runners became s1 and s2 (therefore unchanged).