Post here regarding WDW cutbacks, changes & Complaints
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eeyore0062
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cforza, the Military Salute started Jan 1st and is slated to run through April. Basically, what is does is gives active military a deal on coming to the parks. The active military person gets a free 7 day ticket and then can purchase 50% tickets for their dependents. They do expire, though, unlike regular hopper passes, and from what I understand work more like the Unlimited Magic passes. They also offered the active military cuts on resort rooms at AS, I believe. You would not believe how many people I have met who are taking advantage of this offer. Many are probably trying to go now, as they don't know if and when they will be called up to duty. It is also for active reserves, but I don't really know if that will work, since my understanding is that they can't leave their duty stations once put on alert. I may be wrong, though. I have also heard that for any military that cannot use this during this time because their active military family member is stationed elsewhere, there will be a grandfather clause, so they will be able to take advantage of it once they are home. I think it is great that they are doing this for the military... but, like any other perk like this, it will increase the crowds. When Busch Gardens did it last fall in VA, you couldn't even get off of the exit to the park without close to a 2 hour wait...so I know how you feel!
I hope that the next time you go, you will have a great time and it won't be so crowded and you will be able to do and see everything you would like!
I hope that the next time you go, you will have a great time and it won't be so crowded and you will be able to do and see everything you would like!
!You know, there were cutbacks at WDW long before 9/11 -- I've been watching for years as park hours were gradually reduced, employees were let go, the number of e-nights was gradually reduced, and the prices of resort rooms skyrocketed. Pardon my skepticism, but it would appear from many of these posts and from my impression in trying to make reservations at WDW that PLENTY of people are vacationing there -- at least as many as in years past.
I think WDW is just getting greedy and using 9/11 as an excuse to pad the bottom line FURTHER.
I think WDW is just getting greedy and using 9/11 as an excuse to pad the bottom line FURTHER.
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eeyore0062
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Consider, please, that many of the resorts had closed in entirety or in part, after 9/11 for cost cutting measures which may result in guests not getting their 1st choices of places to stay. When we were there in January, right after Christmas, the resorts were nowhere near full, even with PO-FQ closed, DI closed, PO-R running on limited capacity as well as other resorts which had closed sections. No, it may not be entirely due to 9/11.... but it most definitely was due to a soft economy aggravated by people's fear of flight and being in large public places. Disney is no more greedy that any other tourist attraction that would like to survive these troubled times.
raidermatt
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Tourism is down. Particularly international toursim. State toursim bureaus across the country are looking for ways to combat the downturn in tourism. Disney did not make this up.
We are in a recession, possibly hitting the beginnings of an upswing. Disney did not make-up the recession.
After 9/11, airlines cutback on flights. People were hesitant to fly. Some still are. There are fewer flights into Orlando than at the same time last year. Disney did not make this up.
So this is either the biggest conspiracy ever pulled off, involving not only Disney, but other tourist-reliant companies like Universal and Marriott, politicians, airlines, airport officials, oil companies, etc, etc, etc, OR, maybe there is some truth to it.
We are in a recession, possibly hitting the beginnings of an upswing. Disney did not make-up the recession.
After 9/11, airlines cutback on flights. People were hesitant to fly. Some still are. There are fewer flights into Orlando than at the same time last year. Disney did not make this up.
So this is either the biggest conspiracy ever pulled off, involving not only Disney, but other tourist-reliant companies like Universal and Marriott, politicians, airlines, airport officials, oil companies, etc, etc, etc, OR, maybe there is some truth to it.
happytrails2u
<font color=CC66CC>You don't know "heaven" until y
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May I ask what Disney is doing to combat this downturn?
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raidermatt
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There's not a lot a single company can do to combat a downturn in the economy. Even more imortantly, they can't do much about people who are afraid to fly.
So Disney has closed a small portion of their resort capacity, and delayed the opening of their new resort (Pop Century). Also, they have offered incentives to locals because locals don't have to fly to get to Orlando,and they are more likely to now take trips closer to home.
The extra military discounts are another incentive to a group that is less likely to be afraid to fly.
Many have posted that there are better deals than normal to be found on resort rooms, though as always, they are still more expensive than off-site rooms. I can't personally offer any concrete info on this because I haven't researched room rates since we are DVC members and just use our points.
Advertising and promotion for the 100 Years of Magic Celebration was severely curtailed after 9/11. Disney says this was because it was just not the right time. My opinion is that it was because people weren't going to get in planes no matter what, so commercials and promotions would not have had much of an effect. As a result, Disney has about 2/3 of its promotional/advertising budget still un-spent, so advertising and cross-promotions are kicking into high gear. You probably know about the McDonald's promotion, and there have been more Diseny commercials over the last couple of weeks.
So Disney has closed a small portion of their resort capacity, and delayed the opening of their new resort (Pop Century). Also, they have offered incentives to locals because locals don't have to fly to get to Orlando,and they are more likely to now take trips closer to home.
The extra military discounts are another incentive to a group that is less likely to be afraid to fly.
Many have posted that there are better deals than normal to be found on resort rooms, though as always, they are still more expensive than off-site rooms. I can't personally offer any concrete info on this because I haven't researched room rates since we are DVC members and just use our points.
Advertising and promotion for the 100 Years of Magic Celebration was severely curtailed after 9/11. Disney says this was because it was just not the right time. My opinion is that it was because people weren't going to get in planes no matter what, so commercials and promotions would not have had much of an effect. As a result, Disney has about 2/3 of its promotional/advertising budget still un-spent, so advertising and cross-promotions are kicking into high gear. You probably know about the McDonald's promotion, and there have been more Diseny commercials over the last couple of weeks.
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eeyore0062
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Totally true, Raidermatt. Also, they are extending the 100 Years of Magic Celebration into next spring for those who may have missed its start in October. Also, WDW is the only park in Florida to have not raised its ticket prices as yet this year! At least they have restarted Eticket nights at MK... even if they aren't offered as often. They said after this happened that it could take up to 2 years or more to really get back on track.... we are only little over 6 months since that was speculated, and already guests are beginning to return. We just need to be patient while the nation, the economy and the tourist industry return to normal.
happytrails2u
<font color=CC66CC>You don't know "heaven" until y
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Thanks for your response.
I think one way WDW could help their own cause and that of their guests is by offering more attractive resort rates and/or special promotions, as other major corporations have done (airlines and major hotel chains). That is, enough to impact the general masses - - although I suspect that most of us see that as unlikely.
I think one way WDW could help their own cause and that of their guests is by offering more attractive resort rates and/or special promotions, as other major corporations have done (airlines and major hotel chains). That is, enough to impact the general masses - - although I suspect that most of us see that as unlikely.
Eeyore2U
I'm the one you talk about. I rain on parades and
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If you look around there are discounts on lodging out there. There is a link on the top of the that has codes for discounts or try Mousesavers.com.
Disney has done what THEY think they should do to attract crowds during this time. If you read all the pages of this thread you'd see that a recurring point is that if people are flying less Disney will have lower occupancy rates. As will most of Orlando. That trend seems to be changing.
Disney has done what THEY think they should do to attract crowds during this time. If you read all the pages of this thread you'd see that a recurring point is that if people are flying less Disney will have lower occupancy rates. As will most of Orlando. That trend seems to be changing.
Eeyore2U
I'm the one you talk about. I rain on parades and
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If you look around there are discounts on lodging out there. There is a link on the top of the that has codes for discounts or try Mousesavers.com.
Disney has done what THEY think they should do to attract crowds during this time. If you read all the pages of this thread you'd see that a recurring point is that if people are flying less Disney will have lower occupancy rates. As will most of Orlando. That trend seems to be changing.
Disney has done what THEY think they should do to attract crowds during this time. If you read all the pages of this thread you'd see that a recurring point is that if people are flying less Disney will have lower occupancy rates. As will most of Orlando. That trend seems to be changing.
raidermatt
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Eeyore2u- Good points
Happytrails2u- Further discounting is certainly one strategy Disney could take. But there are several important questions to ask before doing that.
Would reducing room rates by say 10%, generate enough increased reservations that Disney would make-up more than that 10%? Its true that these extra people would spend money elsewhere in the resort, but how much? They are only coming because they were able to get the discounted rate, so it would follow that they wouldn't spend as much as the already booked guests. (Plus, already booked guests did not receive the discount, creating more issues)
What is the long-term effect of heavy discounting? Let's say the economy is back in full gear by the end of the summer. When Disney tries to raise its rates back to normal, will everyone pay? Or will they wait for the discounted rate that they now know Disney will accept?
Its also important to note that, according to Disney, "per-guest" spending is down. That means they are already taking in less $$$ per guest, even without further discounting room rates.
Bottom line is that if the amount of $$$ taken in per guest decreases, Disney either has to spend less on each guest (cut services), or let profit margins shrink. Certainly some services have been cut, mainly EE. But most services remain intact.
I'm not saying Disney is definitely right, only that there is a valid reason they have chosen the path they have.
Of course, the question could be reversed when talking about ticket prices. Sea World raised their prices back in January, Universal several weeks ago. So far, Disney has not. The current rumor is that they will on April 1st. But since most people know that when one of the Orlando big 3 raises prices they all do, it could be argued that Disney is doing their guests a service by waiting, and giving them the chance to purchase tickets at the current rates. Certainly this is a form of discounting that is designed to encourage attendance.
Happytrails2u- Further discounting is certainly one strategy Disney could take. But there are several important questions to ask before doing that.
Would reducing room rates by say 10%, generate enough increased reservations that Disney would make-up more than that 10%? Its true that these extra people would spend money elsewhere in the resort, but how much? They are only coming because they were able to get the discounted rate, so it would follow that they wouldn't spend as much as the already booked guests. (Plus, already booked guests did not receive the discount, creating more issues)
What is the long-term effect of heavy discounting? Let's say the economy is back in full gear by the end of the summer. When Disney tries to raise its rates back to normal, will everyone pay? Or will they wait for the discounted rate that they now know Disney will accept?
Its also important to note that, according to Disney, "per-guest" spending is down. That means they are already taking in less $$$ per guest, even without further discounting room rates.
Bottom line is that if the amount of $$$ taken in per guest decreases, Disney either has to spend less on each guest (cut services), or let profit margins shrink. Certainly some services have been cut, mainly EE. But most services remain intact.
I'm not saying Disney is definitely right, only that there is a valid reason they have chosen the path they have.
Of course, the question could be reversed when talking about ticket prices. Sea World raised their prices back in January, Universal several weeks ago. So far, Disney has not. The current rumor is that they will on April 1st. But since most people know that when one of the Orlando big 3 raises prices they all do, it could be argued that Disney is doing their guests a service by waiting, and giving them the chance to purchase tickets at the current rates. Certainly this is a form of discounting that is designed to encourage attendance.
happytrails2u
<font color=CC66CC>You don't know "heaven" until y
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Raidermatt, a 10% discount is not going to inspire the masses in these times, so I would tend to disagree with the logic in your second paragraph. Everyone has to buy a ticket and everyone has to eat and most will buy souvenirs. The money they'll have saved at their Disney Resort will allow them to spend more in the parks, restaurants, etc.
But Disney would have to offer an "eye popping" deal to convince those staying off site to book at the WDW resorts. There's not many that truly desire to stay offsite, but unfortunately, they have been priced out of the Disney resorts. These are loyal Disney people who are spending money in the parks.
Look what happened when they initiated the Disney Salutes our American Hero's offer. The troops (those that are able) and their families are coming out in droves - - according to another thread on this site. I think Disney needs to re-think their strategy not just in these times but also on a go forward basis.
Eeyore2u, I am familiar with the available codes and think it's a good start, though the vast majority of people travelling to Disney haven't a clue about these discounts. A travel agent recently told me that only 10% to 20% of Disney guests use the internet for research and/or booking trips. And most of us know what happens when you walk into a travel agency - - they want to sell you the most expensive trip (save the travel folks on these boards).
But Disney would have to offer an "eye popping" deal to convince those staying off site to book at the WDW resorts. There's not many that truly desire to stay offsite, but unfortunately, they have been priced out of the Disney resorts. These are loyal Disney people who are spending money in the parks.
Look what happened when they initiated the Disney Salutes our American Hero's offer. The troops (those that are able) and their families are coming out in droves - - according to another thread on this site. I think Disney needs to re-think their strategy not just in these times but also on a go forward basis.
Eeyore2u, I am familiar with the available codes and think it's a good start, though the vast majority of people travelling to Disney haven't a clue about these discounts. A travel agent recently told me that only 10% to 20% of Disney guests use the internet for research and/or booking trips. And most of us know what happens when you walk into a travel agency - - they want to sell you the most expensive trip (save the travel folks on these boards).
raidermatt
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10% was a number I picked out of thin air. The same principle applies to whatever % is picked. While most would buy park tickets (which, again, Disney has not raised prices for. Unlike Sea World and Universal), not everybody spends a lot on souvenirs.
If we are going to accept the anecdotal evidence from the relatively small numbers who post on this board, most current off-siters would not stay on-site unless prices were lowered to equal the off-site rates. They say there is no longer any benefit to staying on site. If that's true, we can just forget it, because Disney is not going to lower rates to match Motel 6 and Holiday Inn.
Several posters on the board have said the military discounts have brought in a lot of guests. Maybe that's true. But even with those guests, attendance is still down 10-15% this year.
Cutting prices is a knee-jerk reaction that many consumers advocate, because it benefits them. But its not always the smartest strategy. If it were, Sak's, Mercedes, Rolex, and other premium brands would be dropping their prices to match the lower level competition. Some will say that Disney has no better resorts than Universal. That's their right, but there are also many who can't imagine why anyone would pay what Rolex wants either. As long as there are enough people who DO view these companies as premium brands, they will charge accordingly.
But remember, for all of their discounting, Universal's attendance is still down. Its not a magic bullet.
If we are going to accept the anecdotal evidence from the relatively small numbers who post on this board, most current off-siters would not stay on-site unless prices were lowered to equal the off-site rates. They say there is no longer any benefit to staying on site. If that's true, we can just forget it, because Disney is not going to lower rates to match Motel 6 and Holiday Inn.
Several posters on the board have said the military discounts have brought in a lot of guests. Maybe that's true. But even with those guests, attendance is still down 10-15% this year.
Cutting prices is a knee-jerk reaction that many consumers advocate, because it benefits them. But its not always the smartest strategy. If it were, Sak's, Mercedes, Rolex, and other premium brands would be dropping their prices to match the lower level competition. Some will say that Disney has no better resorts than Universal. That's their right, but there are also many who can't imagine why anyone would pay what Rolex wants either. As long as there are enough people who DO view these companies as premium brands, they will charge accordingly.
But remember, for all of their discounting, Universal's attendance is still down. Its not a magic bullet.
happytrails2u
<font color=CC66CC>You don't know "heaven" until y
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raidermatt,
I'm not attacking Disney, per se, nor am I defending Universal, which has been referenced frequently in your posts. Although I am impressed with what Loew's is doing there.
I wasn't thinking about Motel 6 or Holiday Inn. My comparison for offsite (for example) would be a 1200 sq, ft. 2bdr. villa w/full kitchen @ Vistana Resort/Villages, at $150 or less vs. $425 (peak) for a 2bdrm home away from home. On a six night stay, that extra $1,650.00 would go a long way in park tickets and feeding the kids and yes, souvenirs too. All in the eyes of the beholder though. Would I prefer to stay at the Boardwalk Villas? You bet.
Here's another example: How 'bout the teacher's/nurse's/govt. employee discount, Entertainment, AP, or AAA discounts at Swan or Dolphin? AND points to boot! You might not get the soap, but you're still in the Magic and isn't the S/D akin to any a WDW deluxe? These are things that I think Disney could consider and still save face (if you will) without having to prostitute their rates and/or their image.
That said, WDW parks, restaurants and shops are still going to get plenty $$$ from me, because (I'll say it again), I'll have more dollars to spend AND I'll be happy to spend it.
Thanks for the exchange.
I'm not attacking Disney, per se, nor am I defending Universal, which has been referenced frequently in your posts. Although I am impressed with what Loew's is doing there.
I wasn't thinking about Motel 6 or Holiday Inn. My comparison for offsite (for example) would be a 1200 sq, ft. 2bdr. villa w/full kitchen @ Vistana Resort/Villages, at $150 or less vs. $425 (peak) for a 2bdrm home away from home. On a six night stay, that extra $1,650.00 would go a long way in park tickets and feeding the kids and yes, souvenirs too. All in the eyes of the beholder though. Would I prefer to stay at the Boardwalk Villas? You bet.
Here's another example: How 'bout the teacher's/nurse's/govt. employee discount, Entertainment, AP, or AAA discounts at Swan or Dolphin? AND points to boot! You might not get the soap, but you're still in the Magic and isn't the S/D akin to any a WDW deluxe? These are things that I think Disney could consider and still save face (if you will) without having to prostitute their rates and/or their image.
That said, WDW parks, restaurants and shops are still going to get plenty $$$ from me, because (I'll say it again), I'll have more dollars to spend AND I'll be happy to spend it.
Thanks for the exchange.
treesinger
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I wonder if we underestimate just how badly Disney is hurting because of the economic downturn.
Anyway, Disney is a business like any other and they need to make smart business decisions. Disney has tons of money, but they also have tons of risk. And since they are a high ticket item (at least I think so), a downturn can put a good dent in the business. I don't think cost-cutting will help because Disney wouldn't cut drastically enough to make a difference. A deep cut would only cut their throats. I think maybe they should have a special where, for two weeks, anyone who books onsite will get a significant discount, regardless of travel time. Just as long as you book within the two week time period. That way, they have a "controlled loss" but not so much that it will hurt them. Hopefully, it brings enough people out to make up for the bottom line they're giving away. Just a thought.
Jason
Anyway, Disney is a business like any other and they need to make smart business decisions. Disney has tons of money, but they also have tons of risk. And since they are a high ticket item (at least I think so), a downturn can put a good dent in the business. I don't think cost-cutting will help because Disney wouldn't cut drastically enough to make a difference. A deep cut would only cut their throats. I think maybe they should have a special where, for two weeks, anyone who books onsite will get a significant discount, regardless of travel time. Just as long as you book within the two week time period. That way, they have a "controlled loss" but not so much that it will hurt them. Hopefully, it brings enough people out to make up for the bottom line they're giving away. Just a thought.
Jason
Nuts4Disney
HAKUNA MATATA!
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Last time I called, I was told by a CM that the 100 Years of Magic was only being extended until Dec. 31, 2002.
Is it true that the 100 Years of Magic Celebration will continue until Spring 2003?
Thanks for the info.
I had to smile at this rather astute observation. Of course, we are all frustrated with the way things are, but not even 7 months ago our country was dealt a terrible blow; some things will never be the way we want them to. Some others will turn around, I believe, with a little patience. We took two trips outside the US since 9/11, one to Mexico and one to Central America. Both destinations' tourism have suffered terribly - people are coming around, but it is not happening over night and some are still afraid to travel.Our economy took a hard hit - I still don't like looking at my investment portfolio -- anyone out there make a bunch of money on <i>their</i> investments in the last 6 months?
A Tiffany Towncar driver told me that his business was off by 75% after 9/11 and is still off by 25%.
And if I don't start remembering not to wear an underwire when I fly I'm going to have to start wondering if I <i>like</i> being searched at the airport after setting off the sensor.
I don't see anything wrong with letting Disney know that we think it might be time to bring back EE and things like that, but I think that none of us should panic - everyone is still licking their wounds after our national tragedy - it really wasn't all that long ago.
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