Pop Warner Fight?

[Dawgdad]

We checked into POFQ Friday afternoon. I really thought I was in New Orleans with all the booty shorts and sleaze hanging on the street corners.

Go Dawgs!

 

[Dawgdad]

I have no use for football players Professional jocks are a JOKE

Though you are specifically targeting football players and yes, my "cup of coffee" in the majors was baseball, I think we would all benefit if people would not stereotype certain groups.
Yes, my professional baseball career was very short, but I never considered myself a joke.

Anyhow, let's keep this about Pop Warner and resist the tempation to get off thread. Did your mother never teach you the lesson about having anything nice to say?

 

[Joanna71985]

Though you are specifically targeting football players and yes, my "cup of coffee" in the majors was baseball, I think we would all benefit if people would not stereotype certain groups.
Yes, my professional baseball career was very short, but I never considered myself a joke.

Anyhow, let's keep this about Pop Warner and resist the tempation to get off thread. Did your mother never teach you the lesson about having anything nice to say?

Sorry, this is going to be OT- but you played in the majors? If you don't mind my asking, where and when did you play? Sorry, huge baseball fan here.

 

[annie_in_wonderland]

Goodness gracious, how did you get that idea just from reading that article???

.

I thought the parents showed unbelievable unwillingness to accept the consequences of their actions. They say they "understand the zero tolerance rule" but clearly they don't.

The rest of their comments are all about what WDW should have done. What about their part in it?

If that had happened in my family or my organization, I would have been hanging my head in shame and apologizing (perhaps with a touch of begging that they wouldn't ban us forever.)

 

[Tricialiv]

Why let a few problems ruin it for everyone. We were at Disney Nov 30th - Dec 8th and NO PROBLEMS. We only saw a few very small bunches of either players or cheerleaders who were well supervised. No chanting or cheering at all. We used TGM so maybe our experience was different than others. I was nervous after reading all the Pop Warner bashing here but found the time of year wonderful. We were also there the same time in 05 and again had no problems

 

[Dawgdad]

Sorry, this is going to be OT- but you played in the majors? If you don't mind my asking, where and when did you play? Sorry, huge baseball fan here.

Drafted by the Cubs in the 4th Round of the 1992 draft. September call-up. MLB Career: 4 AB, 1 hit, 1 RBI, 1 R

 

[Laurabearz]

Drafted by the Cubs in the 4th Round of the 1992 draft. September call-up. MLB Career: 4 AB, 1 hit, 1 RBI, 1 R

Go Cubs!!

 

[Disney Von Drake]

I only spoke up when Pop Warner was bashed.

Let me set the record straight. I have never bashed the Pop Warner program. Quite the contrary, I think it is a wonderful organization and they do a terrific job in helping the youth of America. However, what I said is a fact. The youth in the Pop Warner program are mostly underachievers.

The Pop Warner program was founded way back in 1929. It was specifically designed to rehabilitate vandals and juvenile delinquents. Business owners in Philadelphia were plagued with young vandals that were engaged in burglary, theft and general destruction of property. The business owners formed a youth football league to keep the kids busy with sports and off the streets. These sports leagues became very popular during the great depression years.

Pop Warner is bigger and better than ever because there are still a lot of kids that need the help and guidance they provide. Frankly, most normal well adjusted children don’t need the Pop Warner program. As we all know, there are a lot of kids that aren’t so well adjusted and they can certainly benefit from the help offered by Pop Warner and other service organizations such as the Optimist Club. These organizations help kids to gain esteem, emphasize education, offer guidance and generally help the kids grow into becoming responsible adults. So, you won’t hear any bashing from me!

However, these kids are not the cream of the crop! Many of these kids are very rough and need all the help they can get. Earlier in this thread there was some discussion about how some of the cheerleaders were rude and that they dressed inappropriately. Well, that’s very true. Some of these girls are very trashy. That’s why they’re in the Pop Warner program. They need help and guidance! They need to learn proper manners and how to dress. Pop Warner is there to help keep these young girls from becoming harlots.

Also, there is a direct link to Walt Disney. Back in 1960 Disney produced a 2 hour TV show entitled, “Moochie of Pop Warner Football”. Walt Disney realized the value of the Pop Warner program and he was also an enthusiastic supporter. Walt’s philosophy is carried on today at WDW with their support of the Pop Warner Super Bowl.

In my opinion, WDW should continue its association with and support of the Pop Warner program. WDW did the right thing in this case. They refused to tolerate violent behavior and that was the proper response. As for the trashy, foul mouthed, discourteous, loud and generally obnoxious kids…Pop Warner is helping them to eliminate such behavior, but it takes some time. Unfortunately it doesn’t help all the kids as some still fall through the cracks.

 

[CanadianGuy]

I will go one step further ... I was THERE this past week and weekend staying at All Star Sports -- right in the thick of it for the most part.

I had amost no problems at the resort other than the occasional long line at the food court. I knew that going in it was going to be busy at the resort and it was. No surprises there.

There were signs in all the public areas that indicated that quiet hours were from .. I think it was 10pm to 9am or something like that. I heard no cheering between those hours. Or anything else that prevented me from sleeping when I wanted to.

I somehow missed all the drama on Saturday night all together and didn't even find out about til Monday morning.

The ONLY incident I saw that gave me any pause whatsoever involved an ADULT chaperone of one of the Pop Warner groups. Since I couldn't readily identify which group or what room, I didn't report it.

The kids I saw were pretty well behaved for the most part.

That said, what happened to the groups who had members involved in this incident was correct. There have to be ramifications for bad behavior and in this case, there clearly were ramifications, both financial and from the standpoint of pure inconvenience.

I should think that should those particular groups ever have the chance to attend again, the behavior of ALL members will be under close scrutiny.

Knox

 

[VacationDad]

NO, NO, NO This isn't some boys will be boys thing.
I heard from so many coaches how sports builds character and instills discipline. In many cases it does . . . but no way do those kids (and any other miscreants not booted), the coaches and the PW organization get a pass on this one.
Too bad Teddy Roosevelt wimped out on football

No. Read what I wrote carefully. I'm not dismissing the behavior as "boys will be boys". I am saying boys will be boys so you had better provide adequate supervision. I don't care how many semesters of charm school you send them through. They are young, immature and full of testosterone. You better keep them on a leash or you are asking for trouble.

Disney did the right thing and the parents complaining should have been spending more time keeping an eye on their boys if they didn't want to "wake their babies" in the middle of the night.

 

[Buzz Litebeer]

NO, NO, NO This isn't some boys will be boys thing.
I heard from so many coaches how sports builds character and instills discipline. In many cases it does . . . but no way do those kids (and any other miscreants not booted), the coaches and the PW organization get a pass on this one.

No. Read what I wrote carefully. I'm not dismissing the behavior as "boys will be boys". I am saying boys will be boys so you had better provide adequate supervision. I don't care how many semesters of charm school you send them through. They are young, immature and full of testosterone. You better keep them on a leash or you are asking for trouble.

Disney did the right thing and the parents complaining should have been spending more time keeping an eye on their boys if they didn't want to "wake their babies" in the middle of the night.

I have to say I agree with VacationDad 100% on this. My first thought on reading the article was "What kinds of parents let their kids run wild at 1:00am?"

 

[I'mNoPrince]

I have to say I agree with VacationDad 100% on this. My first thought on reading the article was "What kinds of parents let their kids run wild at 1:00am?"

Well here in my area ( Middleclass with some Lower thrown in) the Kids 10+ run the streets at all hours of the Night. So when away why would it be any different.
DD gets bent because she has to be in when the streetlights come on . But we are involved with her as where most that she even plays soccer at the Rec center have no idea where their kids are.

Most are 2nd and 3rd generation Junkies or drinkers hanging in one of the many local bars.

So thats the type of Parents we are dealing with and thats why the Kids are the way they are. We have also had some friends of the family thretened with Jail time for trying to disapline their kids that hang with these troublemakers.So it's not just the parents fault,sometimes they fall between a rock (badkid) and a hardplace (the Courts).

The biggest problem I see is you have more rights to do nothing and not enforce any laws or disapline then you do to be a parent. PCness and the ACLU have ruined this entire nation rather then go after those that are real threats of abuse.

 

[maxiesmom]

Disney did the right thing and the parents complaining should have been spending more time keeping an eye on their boys if they didn't want to "wake their babies" in the middle of the night.

Yep. Anytime you are part of a team you are taught that what a single person does affects everyone. Everyone knew what would happen if there were any problems. To blame Disney for kicking the families out is ridiculous. The blame belongs squarely on the shoulders of those involved in the fight. If you didn't want to get kicked out of the hotel in the middle of the night, you should have behaved, or made sure your child behaved.

 

[Onceler]

The really talented athletes try out for and make their school’s team. The less talented people fall back on Pop Warner...

However, what I said is a fact. The youth in the Pop Warner program are mostly underachievers...

Frankly, most normal well adjusted children don’t need the Pop Warner program...

However, these kids are not the cream of the crop...

That’s why they’re in the Pop Warner program. They need help and guidance...

Wow. To be honest, Disney Von Drake, you did a very good job of proving the saying "it is better to keep silent and be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt."

The Pop Warner program is not a program for troubled kids. The type of kids who participate represent the entire spectrum. There are troubled kids in the program. There are honor roll students in the program. And there are kids who fit in between. You seem to be assuming that nearly every kid who participates is troubled. That is simply untrue despite your belief that it "is a fact".

Your statement that Pop Warner kids are not talented enough to make their school's team only exposes your ignorance. Pop Warner kids range in age from grade school to junior high school. Most grade schools and junior high schools do not have football teams. There are many "normal well adjusted children" who join Pop Warner because they like playing football and cheerleading. Until they reach high school, Pop Warner is the only available option. They do not join because they are "underachievers".

I am not in any way defending the actions of the teams involved in the fight or those who behave inappropriately at Disney. I know full well how badly many of them act while there. But you are unfairly judging a large group of kids by labeling most of them as "not the cream of the crop" when, in fact, only some of them fit that description.

 

[Disney Von Drake]

The Pop Warner program is not a program for troubled kids.

Pop Warner was created for the express purpose of helping kids to stay out of trouble. Read this article. It may help you understand.

baltimoresun.com
Fight stains football title
Pop Warner officials to look into brawl between Westport, Hawaii teams in Fla.
By Lynn Anderson
Sun reporter
December 13, 2007

Baltimore's Westport Patriots - a football team made up of youths 12 to 15 years old from some of the city's toughest neighborhoods - took first place in their division in the Pop Warner Super Bowl Championship in Florida last weekend.

But hours after the game, the Baltimore boys say they were verbally harassed by players from Hawaii. A fight ensued, and before the night was over the Westport team - as well as two teams from Hawaii - were ejected from Disney's All-Star Resort.

It was a chaotic scene, according to local sheriff's deputies who took "conflicting statements" from members of the three teams and, as a result, have declined to file charges.

Parents of Hawaii youths blame the Baltimore team for being "aggressive" and allege that an adult associated with the team "egged on" boys who were brawling.

Pop Warner officials said yesterday that they will try to find the truth. Sanctions, they said, could follow.

"We will have an investigation and a set of hearings and, if there is going to be any sort of punishment, it will be determined at those hearings," said Sam Mutz, national football commissioner for Pop Warner Football, which has its headquarters near Philadelphia. "The punishment will be from here forward, rather than taking away something that a team won in the past."

Mutz said that since the hearings will involve two teams from Hawaii - the Kahalu'u He'eia Broncos and the Wai'anae Tigers - they will probably be conducted by telephone. However, he said, coaches and team members could also be called to Pop Warner headquarters to describe events to a panel of national and regional youth football officials.

"There have been other incidents and we have taken care of them through similar hearings," Mutz said.

Typically, teams that violate the organization's rules are suspended from play or put on probation for a period of time, Mutz said.

For the Westport Patriots, who were undefeated going into the championship, the fight has soured the win in Florida. On Friday, the team defeated the Sarasota Suncoast Buccaneers 27-8 in a game that was described in a local newspaper as a "lesson in humility" for the Florida team.

Montie Williams, one of the Baltimore team's coaches, called the fight "a small thing" and said that he hated to see media outlets focus on it instead of the team's big win. Florida newspapers and television stations have covered the fight, as has the Honolulu Advertiser.

"It's unfortunate that it had to happen like this," said Williams. "It's getting me down. We work hard to keep these kids out of trouble and now this one moment is going to dominate the entire season."

Williams said the fight started when two Hawaii youths made some rude comments to four Baltimore youths. When more boys from the Hawaii teams showed up to join the fight, the Baltimore team members ran back toward adults they knew would help, Williams said.

"Our boys were celebrating [their win] and the [Hawaiian] guys didn't take too good to that and that's how it all kicked off," said Williams.

Parents of Hawaii team members said the fight started with some pushing and shoving and escalated into four members of the Baltimore Patriots jumping a member of the Kahalu'u He'eia Broncos near a concessions stand. They said that an adult chaperone of the Patriots team was "egging" on the youths and might have hit some of the Hawaiian players.

"We don't know who the adult was; we were never able to sort things out," said Ward Kubo, whose son Ford is a wide receiver for the Broncos. "A fist fight between boys, we can shrug that off, but when an adult is involved, that is when I get upset."

Apparently this is not the first time there has been trouble at the Pop Warner Super Bowl. In September, a memo went out to all teams reminding them that the super bowl championship would attract many media outlets and that they had a "duty to make sure that ALL of the people at events represent Pop Warner appropriately."

The memo goes on to state that there have been "serious behavior problems" at past super bowls and that "such problems have not been tolerated in the past, and certainly will not be tolerated this year." The memo also reminds participants that those involved in a fight or other altercation risk "forfeiting hotel and other deposits."

A spokesman for Walt Disney World said yesterday that it is the corporation's policy to immediately eject guests who are acting in a violent matter - no matter what time of day or night. Spokesman Jacob DiPietre said the policy is meant to protect other guests from possible injury.

He said hotel security received a call about a "disturbance" in the All-Star Resort's arcade area about 11:45 p.m. Friday. Local sheriff's officials were also called to the scene and remained there to take statements from witnesses and to make sure that the three teams complied with hotel management's request to vacate their rooms immediately.

A spokeswoman for the Osceola Sheriff's Department said that deputies arrived at the hotel about midnight and spent several hours trying to figure out how the fight started. She said that the initial emergency call was for a possible "riot" involving "80 to 100 people."

"Our deputies spoke with members of the three teams and almost all of them gave conflicting statements," said Twis Lizasuain, the sheriff's spokeswoman.

As a result, no charges were filed and the report was taken for information only, said Lizasuain. She confirmed that a Hawaii team member was injured and that he had been discharged from a hospital by the time a deputy arrived to take his statement.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/local/baltimore_city/bal-md.patriots13dec13,0,3359955.story

 

[CPT Tripss]

No. Read what I wrote carefully. I'm not dismissing the behavior as "boys will be boys". I am saying boys will be boys so you had better provide adequate supervision. I don't care how many semesters of charm school you send them through. They are young, immature and full of testosterone. You better keep them on a leash or you are asking for trouble.

Disney did the right thing and the parents complaining should have been spending more time keeping an eye on their boys if they didn't want to "wake their babies" in the middle of the night.

I agree with you on the need for tight supervision. Youth and raging hormones (whatever the gender) do get in the way of kids being humans too.

Kudos to Disney for prompt, firm action.

 

[VacationDad]

Pop Warner was created for the express purpose of helping kids to stay out of trouble. Read this article. It may help you understand.

That article said nothing about Pop Warner being created just to help kids stay out of trouble. We have Pop Warner leagues around here. You should see all the Escalades and Mercedes SUV's that pick the kids up. It is a youth football league that teaches kids the skills they will need when they are old enough to join school teams.

I suppose you think Little League or Cal Ripkin are youth baseball leagues meant to keep underachievers out of trouble too?

Face it. You have no clue what you are talking about and you are backpeddling trying to walk away from an ignorant comment that you have shared here.

 

[emmabemmainc]

That article said nothing about Pop Warner being created just to help kids stay out of trouble. We have Pop Warner leagues around here. You should see all the Escalades and Mercedes SUV's that pick the kids up. It is a youth football league that teaches kids the skills they will need when they are old enough to join school teams.

I suppose you think Little League or Cal Ripkin are youth baseball leagues meant to keep underachievers out of trouble too?

Face it. You have no clue what you are talking about and you are backpeddling trying to walk away from an ignorant comment that you have shared here.

I couldn't agree more. Just b/c something was created IN THE 1920's to serve a purpose, doesn't mean that it serves that purpose STILL. They are talking about ONE team in the article you posted.
There are many members here who have children in the Pop Warner program and I honestly can't believe the number of insults to their children that have been thrown their way. I'm sure they'll be more than thrilled to hear that their children are not the "cream of the crop". Wow--the rudeness here is amazing.

 

[Onceler]

Pop Warner was created for the express purpose of helping kids to stay out of trouble. Read this article. It may help you understand...

Your history of Pop Warner is correct. It was initially an idea to help kids stay out of trouble... in 1929! You don't seem to be considering the possibility that in the 78 years since then, the purpose of the organization has changed. Pop Warner is no longer an organization that exists solely to keep kids out of trouble. And there is no requirement that says that only troubled kids can participate.

The vast majority of kids who participate are well behaved, regular kids who have no issues in their lives. They play football and do cheerleading because they enjoy it. They don't use Pop Warner as a fallback because they are underachievers who are neither talented nor motivated enough to make their school teams.

While there are teams like the one from Baltimore that are made up of youths from tough areas, there are also teams from areas that are anything but tough. Yet you don't seem to understand that. It is as though in your mind you are only able to see Pop Warner kids as troubled. So you point to a few examples that fit the stereotype in your head while you fail to notice the many examples that don't fit the stereotype.

What bothers me about your posts is that you are basically saying that all Pop Warner participants are troubled underachievers. That is both unfair and insulting to the vast majority of kids in the program since most of them don't come anywhere close to fitting that stereotype.

 

[Disney Von Drake]

That article said nothing about Pop Warner being created just to help kids stay out of trouble. We have Pop Warner leagues around here. You should see all the Escalades and Mercedes SUV's that pick the kids up. It is a youth football league that teaches kids the skills they will need when they are old enough to join school teams.

Well I can only reiterate that it was created to help troubled youth and that is a basic part of their mission. I might add that wealthy people have just as many, if not more, children that need the services offered by Pop Warner.

Face it. You have no clue what you are talking about and you are backpeddling trying to walk away from an ignorant comment that you have shared here.

Just because you disagree with my assessment does not make it invalid. Ignorant?

I couldn't agree more. Just b/c something was created IN THE 1920's to serve a purpose, doesn't mean that it serves that purpose STILL. They are talking about ONE team in the article you posted.
There are many members here who have children in the Pop Warner program and I honestly can't believe the number of insults to their children that have been thrown their way. I'm sure they'll be more than thrilled to hear that their children are not the "cream of the crop". Wow--the rudeness here is amazing.

Yes indeed, Pop Warner has evolved quite a lot since its founding but it has not forgotten its base either. Also, Pop Warner has been a non-profit organization since 1960 and it relies upon public support and uses public facilities. It is a tax exempt organization and it must be open to all. As a result, Pop Warner is not selective.

Also, Pop Warner merchandises itself as a place for all kids to learn how to play football. They get all types. I apologize to you if you think my comments have been harsh or insulting.

Your history of Pop Warner is correct. It was initially an idea to help kids stay out of trouble... in 1929! You don't seem to be considering the possibility that in the 78 years since then, the purpose of the organization has changed. Pop Warner is no longer an organization that exists solely to keep kids out of trouble. And there is no requirement that says that only troubled kids can participate.

That is correct. As I stated before, the organization has evolved as has its mission. And part of that mission remains to help troubled kids. I’m sorry if I left the impression that all of the kids are delinquents. Obviously, Pop Warner participants are a broad mix.

The vast majority of kids who participate are well behaved, regular kids who have no issues in their lives. They play football and do cheerleading because they enjoy it. They don't use Pop Warner as a fallback because they are underachievers who are neither talented nor motivated enough to make their school teams.

I think we’ll just have to disagree on this point. If this were the case, there would be no need for a non-profit organization to run the program.

While there are teams like the one from Baltimore that are made up of youths from tough areas, there are also teams from areas that are anything but tough. Yet you don't seem to understand that. It is as though in your mind you are only able to see Pop Warner kids as troubled. So you point to a few examples that fit the stereotype in your head while you fail to notice the many examples that don't fit the stereotype.

You’re the one stereotyping here. I made no reference to any particular team.

What bothers me about your posts is that you are basically saying that all Pop Warner participants are troubled underachievers. That is both unfair and insulting to the vast majority of kids in the program since most of them don't come anywhere close to fitting that stereotype.

Again, I am sorry if you took my remarks to be accusatory or insulting. I understand that strong feelings can sometimes interfere with concise communication.