Poor Michael Vick is not happy in Philly. I'm so saddened.

[FireDancer]

Children do not idolize based on character, unfortunately. They don't see things the same way adults do. They idolize based on money, success in a popular field, popularity, and media pushing "idols" on them. They don't stop and think, "is this guy a good person?" And Mr. Vick's problem isn't even that he lacks character, the guy is missing his soul. Not someone that kids should be looking up to on the ball field, IMO.

See, this is where I see a disconnect in the "role" portion of role model. Someone can be a role model and not a life model. Even though he may be a terrible human Vick can still perform the very specific "role" of quarterback very well. When someone is a role model it means literally that their ability is a model for that and only that role. In this light Vick, who has been convicted of a felony in a different role off of the field can still be looked to as a model of how to throw a football.

I look at Lance Armstrong and the Schleck brothers in the role of cyclists and only that role. They might not be role model material in the role of husband or father or anything else of the bike which is why I don't look at them as life models, just as role models in a very specific and narrow role.

If the best bowler in the world goes home and beats his wife he is a scum bag in the role of husband and citizen but he can still be looked at as a model in the role of bowling and only bowling.

This seems the more logical view and I always go with logic over emotion when accessing a situation.

To me, no one is idol worthy.

Finally, we agree. But again I say there is a very big difference between an idol, a life model, and a role model in decreasing importance as to how to fashion your life.

 

[agnes!]

He is a man doing a job, no more and no less. Some sell cars, some paint houses, some play football. I do not nor have I ever idolized any person because of how well they do or don't do their job. A person is idolized because of the totality of their character and the character of most professional athletes is not idol worthy.

I don't idolize Vick, I merely think he should be allowed to do his profession. I would feel the same if the butcher, baker, or candlestick maker served their sentence especially for a crime that was not against any person. I have plenty of sympathy but 100% of it is reserved for human beings, not animals.

His *profession*? The problem with that is nothing's guaranteed in the world of professional sports. Players get hurt, lose their conditioning, don't have that mental edge and for all those reasons and more get cut all the time. I'm of the camp that thinks he can go ahead and work wherever he can get a job, but that doesn't mean I think he's entitled to spend his working days playing on a football field. And as a member of the paying public, I don't have to support any team I don't like for whatever reason, so yeah, no Vick jerseys for me.

I think the NFL shouldn't allow convicts of any stripe to play football, but then some franchises wouldn't be able to field a team at all...like maybe the Ravens .

agnes!

 

[Darsa]

But are most 10 11 12 year old boys going to say, "but is he a good life model for me?" I'm pretty sure they won't. Heck, this is (IMHO) how a lot of young people get into trouble, by seeing someone so much in the public eye doing terrible things, and thinking they're okay because a famous person did it.

That's great that YOU don't idolize anyone; honestly I'm not worried whether or not you do. I'm more concerned as to whether or not the younger generation idolizes scumbags like him.

JMHO, of course.

 

[Kim&Chris]

This makes no sense. When someone is convicted of raping a human, a much more serious crime then Vick committed, they are not raped in return. They receive a sentence and serve it. When someone is convicted of arson neither they nor their house are set on fire. They receive a sentence and serve it. Even when someone kills another person they are most often not killed in return, they receive a sentence and serve it. There are outliers that are executed for their crimes because of extenuating circumstances but in our country you serve your sentence and are released back into society either completely or in a controlled manner.

While you may have little or no sympathy for the animals, hopefully you'll consider the fact that the victims in Vick's crimes were completely helpless, and were unable to defend themselves. No voices at all. I'm sorry, but I place Vick in the same category as people who hurt or kill children. They are complete cowards who prey on the defenseless, and believe that the pain they inflict is a sign of their 'power'.

Just because someone served a sentence does not mean they are rehabilitated. Just look at Phillip Garrido. And before you say "a child and a dog are different", I must say that while I don't disagree, the crime is still as evil.

 

[hrh_disney_queen]

See, this is where I see a disconnect in the "role" portion of role model. Someone can be a role model and not a life model. Even though he may be a terrible human Vick can still perform the very specific "role" of quarterback very well. When someone is a role model it means literally that their ability is a model for that and only that role. In this light Vick, who has been convicted of a felony in a different role off of the field can still be looked to as a model of how to throw a football.

I look at Lance Armstrong and the Schleck brothers in the role of cyclists and only that role. They might not be role model material in the role of husband or father or anything else of the bike which is why I don't look at them as life models, just as role models in a very specific and narrow role.

If the best bowler in the world goes home and beats his wife he is a scum bag in the role of husband and citizen but he can still be looked at as a model in the role of bowling and only bowling.

This seems the more logical view and I always go with logic over emotion when accessing a situation.

Finally, we agree. But again I say there is a very big difference between an idol, a life model, and a role model in decreasing importance as to how to fashion your life.

As far as I can see, Vick isn't even being a very good role model as a football player, complaining about the only team that would give him a job. Anyway, as far as being a role model strictly in only his professional sense, unfortunately kids don't think that far. They see the whole package. Great player, rich, famous, and oh yeah...animal abuser. So if they idolize the man, chances are the latter won't matter to them. I know you don't care about animals, but you should care about what kind of person does this. It's not a far reach to other violent crimes.

 

[FireDancer]

His *profession*? The problem with that is nothing's guaranteed in the world of professional sports. Players get hurt, lose their conditioning, don't have that mental edge and for all those reasons and more get cut all the time. I'm of the camp that thinks he can go ahead and work wherever he can get a job, but that doesn't mean I think he's entitled to spend his working days playing on a football field. And as a member of the paying public, I don't have to support any team I don't like for whatever reason, so yeah, no Vick jerseys for me.

I think the NFL shouldn't allow convicts of any stripe to play football, but then some franchises wouldn't be able to field a team at all...like maybe the Ravens .

agnes!

I agree with most of this. I don't think Vick or anyone is entitled to anything but I feel that as long as they have the prerequisite ability they should not be denied a shot after they have served their sentence. Just like someone who is hurt, loses their conditioning, or doesn't have that mental edge anymore can get cut so can Vick. I don't think he should be denied a shot to make the team on his playing ability stopped for anything beyond his playing ability.

The consumer decides if they will support a team and if the stadium is empty every game and they notice a dip in their finances as a result he will be cut. Remember though that the NFL has a collective bargaining agreement so if you watch any game with any team you are supporting the Eagles via that agreement.

But are most 10 11 12 year old boys going to say, "but is he a good life model for me?" I'm pretty sure they won't. Heck, this is (IMHO) how a lot of young people get into trouble, by seeing someone so much in the public eye doing terrible things, and thinking they're okay because a famous person did it.

That's great that YOU don't idolize anyone; honestly I'm not worried whether or not you do. I'm more concerned as to whether or not the younger generation idolizes scumbags like him.

JMHO, of course.

If anyone wants to model their life on anyone based merely on popularity and the fact they are famous that is a personal decision made, in my opinion, foolishly. I don't hold famous people responsible for being role models for children, that is the job of a parent. It's like when people look at celebrities to form their own self esteem. I think that is stupid, you are the source of your own self esteem even as a kid, tween, and teen.

Look, my view on life is that you are in control of how you model your life at every age though at a young age your parents and family do help you figure it out. It isn't up to some celebrity that I guarantee cares very little about any of us. Heck, I've even met Lance in real life and don't think he really cares about me as anything more than a fan, if that.

Anyway, as far as being a role model strictly in only his professional sense, unfortunately kids don't think that far. They see the whole package. Great player, rich, famous, and oh yeah...animal abuser. So if they idolize the man, chances are the latter won't matter to them.

Well, just because they don't doesn't mean they shouldn't. It is not up to the athlete to be a model to anyone, it is up to all of us, even kids, to choose better role models and life models. The responsibility is on all of us as individuals, and I include the kids in this. At most the responsibility ends with the parents, not strangers. I don't understand why we don't hold kids responsible for their own choices and blame other people who don't even know they exist. We're not talking about infants and toddlers here, were are talking about kids who are going out into the world at a school level and discovering themselves. If they, or anyone, choose a role model poorly the error is on the chooser, not the target of that choice.

Your kids are not my problem. If I were a pro athlete or actor or musician which, sadly I'm not, I would feel the same way. I'll worry about me and you worry about you. I wouldn't go out of my way to harm them but what I do in my person life is a matter for me and my loved ones. If it becomes illegal, it is a matter for the law.

 

[Uuaww]

Vick topic, time to make my appearance (much to BeachGirlFLA's dismay for sure). Vick is a football player, he is allowed to voice his opinion about his team. If he wants to switch teams, he can next season. He paid he time, and regardless what all the animal lovers say, he is not worse than a human rapist.

 

[Jennasis]

Can someone tell this non-football lovin' lady what the Wildcat position is?

 

[Kim&Chris]

Vick topic, time to make my appearance (much to BeachGirlFLA's dismay for sure). Vick is a football player, he is allowed to voice his opinion about his team. If he wants to switch teams, he can next season. He paid he time, and regardless what all the animal lovers say, he is not worse than a human rapist.

Just your opinion, right?

 

[Snoopymom]

http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/series/dogtown/3684/Overview

They should just grind his teeth down like they did to his dogs, then all we'd hear is blah blah blah, oh wait, that's all I hear now

 

[sbell111]

As far as I can see, Vick isn't even being a very good role model as a football player, complaining about the only team that would give him a job.

Professional athletes have the press asking them questions all the time. Sometimes, this results in an unfortunate quote. I don't feel that this is one of those times.

He's not happy with the offense that he has to play. He lays some of the blame on himself. I really don't see this article as evidence that he is trashing his team. I think that some are painting it this way because they are nearly desperate to rag on the guy.

 

[sbell111]

Can someone tell this non-football lovin' lady what the Wildcat position is?

The 'wildcat' is an offense where the ball is hiked directly to the runner, typically a running back. This allows for an extra blocker, but it largely takes the passing game off the table. QBs who would like to actually pass the ball obviously would hate these plays.

 

[Darsa]

he is not worse than a human rapist.

Did someone say he was worse than a rapist? As bad as, yes, but certainly not "worse than".

It's impossible to rate one crime against the other. Rape has nothing to do with the fact that this guy is a stinkin' slimeball.

 

[hrh_disney_queen]

If anyone wants to model their life on anyone based merely on popularity and the fact they are famous that is a personal decision made, in my opinion, foolishly. I don't hold famous people responsible for being role models for children, that is the job of a parent. It's like when people look at celebrities to form their own self esteem. I think that is stupid, you are the source of your own self esteem.

Look, my view on life is that you are in control of how you model your life at every age though at a young age your parents and family do help you figure it out. It isn't up to some celebrity that I guarantee cares very little about any of us. Heck, I've even met Lance in real life and don't think he really cares about me as anything more than a fan, if that.

I think you have forgotten what it is like to be a 10-12 year old boy who worships the ground that sports figures walk on. Yes, it is up to the parent to help guide the him, but peers and media are major contributors. It can be quite a battle between parents and those kind of influences.

In my own home, for example, my DH and I are against any kind of hunting, mistreating, abusing animals. My DS9 has announced to me that he wants a hunting TV game for Christmas. It bothers me, even though he is the sweetest child, he knows our views on the subject, and he would never abuse an animal. He just thinks it would be cool to shoot guns. I can tell him no, but he still wants to do it. He doesn't see things the same way adults do.


ETA...just read your edit to the above post. I can't understand the triple negative in your last post after my quote, it's making my head spin. Anyway, bury your head in the sand if you want, but professional athletes are role models to young boys. Period. Whether you care about them or not. And often to young troubled boys. So you had better worry, because these boys will grow up to be men who don't see anything wrong with causing pain to other living things, or to make it more understandable to you-committing a felony and expecting to get back on board in his old job. Because the kids saw no repercussions for the actions.

Wonder what your idol Lance would think about his role as a role model to young kids. He overcame major adversity to go on to win numerous races. He is one of the good ones.

ITA with Darsa, a hideous crime is a hideous crime. Of course human life is more valuable than animals, but why do they have to be mutually exclusive ?

 

[agnes!]

His *profession*? The problem with that is nothing's guaranteed in the world of professional sports. Players get hurt, lose their conditioning, don't have that mental edge and for all those reasons and more get cut all the time. I'm of the camp that thinks he can go ahead and work wherever he can get a job, but that doesn't mean I think he's entitled to spend his working days playing on a football field. And as a member of the paying public, I don't have to support any team I don't like for whatever reason, so yeah, no Vick jerseys for me.

I think the NFL shouldn't allow convicts of any stripe to play football, but then some franchises wouldn't be able to field a team at all...like maybe the Ravens .

agnes!

I agree with most of this. I don't think Vick or anyone is entitled to anything but I feel that as long as they have the prerequisite ability they should not be denied a shot after they have served their sentence. Just like someone who is hurt, loses their conditioning, or doesn't have that mental edge anymore can get cut so can Vick. I don't think he should be denied a shot to make the team on his playing ability stopped for anything beyond his playing ability.

The consumer decides if they will support a team and if the stadium is empty every game and they notice a dip in their finances as a result he will be cut. Remember though that the NFL has a collective bargaining agreement so if you watch any game with any team you are supporting the Eagles via that agreement. ...

Thanks, but I don't need to be reminded of the NFL's collective bargaining agreement, I am already somewhat familiar with the revenue-sharing plan that is in use by the league. Ever since it's started to bother me that the NFL has let so many convicts who've paid their time into and back into the league, they actually *do* get less of my money...as little as possible. So, especially, yeah, no Vicks jerseys for me and no Eagles branded-items either.

Anyway, the NFL is keeping the world safe from rules-breakers and has some standards...they fine players for wearing the wrong shoes and socks on gameday all the time .

agnes!

 

[BeachGirlFLA]

Vick topic, time to make my appearance (much to BeachGirlFLA's dismay for sure). Vick is a football player, he is allowed to voice his opinion about his team. If he wants to switch teams, he can next season. He paid he time, and regardless what all the animal lovers say, he is not worse than a human rapist.

We just have different opinions...and by the way, I don't think he is worse than a human rapist. I just think he has the same mentality as a child rapist (picking on innocent living things that can't protect themselves.)

 

[FireDancer]

I think you have forgotten what it is like to be a 10-12 year old boy who worships the ground that sports figures walk on. Yes, it is up to the parent to help guide the him, but peers and media are major contributors. It can be quite a battle between parents and those kind of influences.

In my own home, for example, my DH and I are against any kind of hunting, mistreating, abusing animals. My DS9 has announced to me that he wants a hunting TV game for Christmas. It bothers me, even though he is the sweetest child, he knows our views on the subject, and he would never abuse an animal. He just thinks it would be cool to shoot guns. I can tell him no, but he still wants to do it. He doesn't see things the same way adults do.

I grew up playing all sorts of sports and had favorite athletes. I never let what they did in their personal lives bleed into the professional though. Growing up I was a huge fan of Mark McGwire but only on the field. I would never in a million years make the decision to use steroids because he did. That makes no sense to me. It was drilled into my brother and my heads as long as I can remember that just because someone famous does something it doesn't make it ok for us. Somehow we managed to keep these two things separate.

If our excuse for doing anything was "well, so and so was doing it" it would have been a problem for our parents. It didn't matter if so and so was someone famous or someone we knew at school. We had it drilled into us that we do not do something merely because someone else does it. What ever happened to "if <name> jumps off of a bridge would you"?

As for the second part you are completely entitled to, and should, set those kinds of boundaries for your child. I don't see the correlation though between a video game and real life. I could want to play a video game like Grand Theft Auto without wanting to do any of the actions in the game (sleeping with prostitutes or killing people) in real life. The vast majority of people who play first person shooter games will never even fire a gun let alone fire one at someone.

I don't really equate things that aren't real like movies and TV to real life though so maybe our points of view are different. I love The Godfather but don't want to be a crime boss. I love the Bond movies but don't want to be a spy. I think people make too much of a correlation between fantasy and life in regards to video games and movies but that is a whole different thread.

Look, like most of the time when I disagree with people's points of view I am merely offering my opinion. My opinion is that using age as an excuse for poor decisions, including the selection of role models, is not a viable excuse.

 

[Jennasis]

The 'wildcat' is an offense where the ball is hiked directly to the runner, typically a running back. This allows for an extra blocker, but it largely takes the passing game off the table. QBs who would like to actually pass the ball obviously would hate these plays.

Che?

It's like you're speaking Chinese! Sounds vaguely like he is mad he doesn't get to throw the ball, but rather has to hand it off all the time?

And he still gets paid to do "nothing", right?

 

[disneyjunkie]

I know from your previous posts that his particular crime of animal cruelty would not bother you, but to most feeling people this was a very heinous crime, and he should not be out there in a profession for kids to idolize.

Maybe it's time for the parents to put an end to kids idolizing athletes.

He served his time. He should be do the job he's paid to do.

 

[FireDancer]

Maybe it's time for the parents to put an end to kids idolizing athletes.

He served his time. He should be do the job he's paid to do.

Exactly what I am saying...only you use a few less words. I do sometimes drone on. I think it is a side effect of having to take debate in high school.

If your kids pick poor role models it is you and your kids problem, not the target of their admiration.