Poly DVC expansion coming 2024!

[CraigInPA]

If they are two associations, they won't be able to do it, for certain.
If it's one association, like Sandy said, it might be possible that they create a point chart and just before sales begin, reallocate. However many of us think they are not legally allowed to reallocate points between units.
They have done it multiple times in the past: SSR THV, view reallocations at BLT and AKV, SSR standard view created. However when they tried again in 2019 for the infamous 2020 charts, they had been questioned and threatened with legal action. They rolled back the charts and they haven't attempted it again since.
I'd say it won't happen.

They rolled back those charts because they changed the ratio between lock offs being used as a 2 bedroom versus a studio plus a one bedroom, thereby increasing the total number of points. Because they can't legally sell more points than in the original declaration, Disney themselves would have reaped the benefit of the "extra" points now in circulation by having them as breakage. It was beyond sleezy, and they got caught and called out on it by people on this forum.

DVC can absolutely adjust the number of points needed for a studio versus a 1 bedroom, moving points from bucket to bucket SO LONG AS the total number of points is the same. They can create new classes of accommodations, such as making a "Garden View" set of studios into "Dumpster View" and requiring fewer points (which means they'd have to add the point difference between Garden and Dumpster for these new Dumpster view tooms to something else).

 

[RoseGold]

More hotel rooms equal more crowded parks. I hope none of you that want to buy in complain about that.

It's not like a few hundred DVC rooms matter in the overall inventory of Orlando hotels.

Besides, if Chapek completely gets rid of APs, which seems to be the path they're on, he won't have to worry about many of us crowding up his parks.

 

[UofMGuy423]

Also, don't they only show up after people close? Some making delayed payment plans would not show up for a month or two

Yup, mine is considered a December, 2021 sale, but I didn't close until first week of March as I added on extra points before the price change, so it pushed my closing back.

 

[tjkraz]

DVCMC have already acknowledged that demand of the bungalows is so much lower than studios that a reallocation would be needed. The original 2020 charts had a reallocation from bungalows to studios. That has been rolled back, they never gave a reason more than "because we didn't communicate it well so two dozen people complained", but 3 more point charts have been published and no reallocation has happened.

Bungalows are available for lower rates in 2022 and 2023 than they were in the past. But maybe that's just a byproduct of adjustments to the seasons. I haven't looked at it that closely.

I know we disagree about the possibility for DVCMC to reallocate across units, but how could they justify a reallocation in 5 years time if they haven't done it in the last 3 after admitting the problem?

I don't know that we disagree on the legality of it. The deeds themselves are written as a percentage of a unit, which seemingly shouldn't change in a reallocation. Nevertheless, this has occurred, most notably at SSR. One could argue that the Standard View did more to help than harm both owners and perhaps occupancy levels, though we don't have any data to back that up. (As someone who owns a few points at SSR, I personally like the fact that I can save a few points booking SV.)

*IF* DVC were taking the hit for a bungalow reallocation in the manner I described, I guess I'd feel the same: that it serves the greater good. If such a reallocation happened 2-3 years after the tower sold out, not so much. Whether it's "legal" or not would be up to the courts to decide...if such a challenge occurred.

 

[tjkraz]

More hotel rooms equal more crowded parks. I hope none of you that want to buy in complain about that.

Because lots of people say: "hey, I'm going to vacation for a week at that cool Gran Destinio Tower, and I guess I might as well visit Epcot while I'm there"?

 

[Duckbug.Ducktales]

More hotel rooms equal more crowded parks. I hope none of you that want to buy in complain about that.

I'm not sure that's how the equation go. I think it's just more options for people already going.

 

[BamaGuy44]

It's not like a few hundred DVC rooms matter in the overall inventory of Orlando hotel.

Besides, if Chapek completely gets rid of APs, which seems to be the path they're on, he won't have to worry about many of us crowding up his parks.

Yeah I don't understand that thinking either. I don't think anyone will be saying "Ok, new deluxe on-site hotel rooms are available. FINALLY I can go to WDW!"

For the APs, I think it's like a lot of the changes, there's always a new generation of families with kids coming along to take our place, who don't know how good we had it back in the day. That's what they're counting on, sadly.

 

[Sandisw]

They rolled back those charts because they changed the ratio between lock offs being used as a 2 bedroom versus a studio plus a one bedroom, thereby increasing the total number of points. Because they can't legally sell more points than in the original declaration, Disney themselves would have reaped the benefit of the "extra" points now in circulation by having them as breakage. It was beyond sleezy, and they got caught and called out on it by people on this forum.

DVC can absolutely adjust the number of points needed for a studio versus a 1 bedroom, moving points from bucket to bucket SO LONG AS the total number of points is the same. They can create new classes of accommodations, such as making a "Garden View" set of studios into "Dumpster View" and requiring fewer points (which means they'd have to add the point difference between Garden and Dumpster for these new Dumpster view tooms to something else).

This is where my thinking is currently and from the limited research I have done, I can not find anything that clearly defines it for use vs sale.

It’s clear that they can not sell more than what is declared to a unit as it represents a deeded percent of that unit. So if they sold x points to the bungalows, they can not later add more.

However, that is not the same as adjusting the point charts for use throughout the entire year for the entire resort.

They have obviously done it with the treehouses but never been challenged so can’t say wihh to 100% certainty it was correct.

IMO, shifting among rooms sizes based on demand is in the best interest of a membership and I get now why the lock off debacle of 2020 was an issue,,it added point that had nothing to do with seasonal or calendar changes.

Just not sure if that had to follow the same rules for sale..which is unit based.

 

[EM Lawrence]

Why would Disney view it as a problem for themselves if the bungalows are underutilized? Doesn't that just increase breakage and give them more rooms to sell for cash? The cost to maintain the bungalows falls on DVC members. I get that the point-hog bungalows are not a benefit to most Poly owners, but are they really a problem for Disney that they would even want to solve?

If I won the lottery tomorrow, I would stay in those bungalows every time I visited Disney. I've never stayed in one, but I've toured one, and it was extremely appealing.

 

[Duckbug.Ducktales]

Why would Disney view it as a problem for themselves if the bungalows are underutilized? Doesn't that just increase breakage and give them more rooms to sell for cash? The cost to maintain the bungalows falls on DVC members. I get that the point-hog bungalows are not a benefit to most Poly owners, but are they really a problem for Disney that they would even want to solve?

If I won the lottery tomorrow, I would stay in those bungalows every time I visited Disney. I've never stayed in one, but I've toured one, and it was extremely appealing.

Those bungalows are totally nice indeed! But does Disney actually make money off them? Do they really book that many of them for cash? On the other hand, as the points get booked elsewhere it causes availability issues.

 

[zavandor]

They rolled back those charts because they changed the ratio between lock offs being used as a 2 bedroom versus a studio plus a one bedroom, thereby increasing the total number of points.

We do not know for sure why they rolled back the 2020 charts, since they haven't given a reasonable explanation. They did three things in those charts: reallocate across seasons, reallocate between studios and bungalows and between cabins and other units and finally the lockoff premium, which is what caused that much outrage.
The main goal of people involved at the time was to stop the lockoff premium increase, but reading the documents we discovered language that would prevent reallocation between different units too.
Since then, DVCMC reallocated across the seasons twice, that was never in contention (even if they tried to do in a way to generate more breakage too, but that was stopped too thanks to I<3riviera calculations).
However they haven't attempted again neither the lockoff premium increase or reallocation between units. You think they are allowed to do the latter, but then why haven't they done it again, in your opinion? They made explicit in the 2020 charts that there is an imbalance in demand between cabins, bungalows and other units. If allowed, why haven't they reallocated already? It's their job to keep demand in balance, if they can and they're not doing it, they're failing their role as fiduciary of the membership.
My guess is that they think our interpretation that reallocation between units is not allowed has merit. They may not be sure how a trial would go (and to be honest, while I think I'm right, I wouldn't be 100% sure to win either) and they prefer to leave things as they are. If they attempt a bungalows-studio reallocation (given almost every PVB owner bought for studios and would never book a bungalow anyway) they would have a very angry mob opposing the move and there's the chance someone would sue.
A reallocation pre-PVB2 opening to move points from bungalows to yet to be opened 1BR, 2BR and GV? It would be of course welcome, but really, why should DVC do it? Out of good heart?

 

[tjkraz]

Why would Disney view it as a problem for themselves if the bungalows are underutilized? Doesn't that just increase breakage and give them more rooms to sell for cash? The cost to maintain the bungalows falls on DVC members. I get that the point-hog bungalows are not a benefit to most Poly owners, but are they really a problem for Disney that they would even want to solve?

There's no guarantee that DVC would view it as their problem to fix, but it's certainly a problem of their making. Anecdotally, the wilderness lodge cabins are much more popular, and priced about 30% lower than the bungalows.

I certainly hope that DVC does not deliberately price accommodations higher than market to force them into breakage. But if they're having trouble finding 20 DVC members per day willing to book on points, I suspect there isn't great demand from cash guests with rates that run $3100 - 5500 per night (before tax.) That's a room that has one king bed, one queen bed and a couple pull-downs.

A single bungalow represents about 53,000 points per year. Hypothetically, if half of the bungalows are sitting empty year-round, that's 530,000 Poly points being absorbed elsewhere in the DVC system--more than 12% of the resort's points. For comparison's sake, that's enough points to book 72 BLT studios or 48 SSR One Bedrooms year-round.

We all agreed to accept some degree of non-home points usage. Some resorts will invariably be more popular than others. But this feels like a situation that's fixable...if Disney is willing. If more points get used toward bungalows, it relieves pressure on other locations.

 

[BeachClub2014]

A single bungalow represents about 53,000 points per year. Hypothetically, if half of the bungalows are sitting empty year-round, that's 530,000 Poly points being absorbed elsewhere in the DVC system--more than 12% of the resort's points. For comparison's sake, that's enough points to book 72 BLT studios or 48 SSR One Bedrooms year-round.

We all agreed to accept some degree of non-home points usage. Some resorts will invariably be more popular than others. But this feels like a situation that's fixable...if Disney is willing. If more points get used toward bungalows, it relieves pressure on other locations.

Excellent ideas to ponder, here. The points you've made may also touch on one of the reasons DVC enacted resale restrictions for new resorts: "protecting" home resort availability and evening out usage. But hey, who the heck really knows? Certainly not me.

 

[Sandisw]

I talked with my guide again today and he said that other than the official press release, nothing else has been sent to guides.

He did say that sometimes guides are given info and can't share but if that had been the case, he would have at least said info was coming out but not yet ready to share.

 

[Paul Stupin]

Well informed current DVC members might know this. People who regularly visit these discussion boards might know this.

Many (the majority?) of direct DVC buyers are making their purchase while on vacation and are caught up in the excitement of the moment. (This is typical for most timeshare buyers.). They have no idea about Poly bungalow availability.

Again, this is about marketing a product to maximize sales. Actual bungalow availability at 7 months is irrelevant. Does Disney think that marketing the bungalows as part of Poly 2 will help Poly 2 sales?

I don’t think throwing the bungalows into Poly2 (which they probably can’t do anyway) would be particularly beneficial marketing wise. They have a stunning new tower to sell, they don’t need to add accommodations with monumentally high point charts out of reach of most buyers.

 

[KimMcGowan]

I don’t think throwing the bungalows into Poly2 (which they probably can’t do anyway) would be particularly beneficial marketing wise. They have a stunning new tower to sell, they don’t need to add accommodations with monumentally high point charts out of reach of most buyers.

I don’t know… that may be a great upscale carrot to dangle in front of perspective buyers.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

Well, the Moana Surfrider IS only about 100 yards from the Royal Hawaiian on Waikiki...LOL

Except nobody should intentionally attempt to recreate Waikiki as it is today.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

I understand where you are coming from but look at how Disney is marketing VGF2.

VGF2 is just Studios but Disney also is advertising VGF1’s 2 and 3 bedroom villas as part of VGF2.

The new Poly building almost certainly will have Grand Villas, and some who buy there will want to stay in those. For reference, a lake view Grand Floridian Grand Villa costs 187 points per night for Spring.

The point is, there will be some who buy at the new Poly DVC who will want a Grand Villa. I’m sure some of those will also like to try a bungalow.

Yes. The Bungalows would be the marketing bait like the GV's, and 2BR's are at VGF.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

DVCMC have already acknowledged that demand of the bungalows is so much lower than studios that a reallocation would be needed. The original 2020 charts had a reallocation from bungalows to studios. That has been rolled back, they never gave a reason more than "because we didn't communicate it well so two dozen people complained", but 3 more point charts have been published and no reallocation has happened.
I know we disagree about the possibility for DVCMC to reallocate across units, but how could they justify a reallocation in 5 years time if they haven't done it in the last 3 after admitting the problem?

Perhaps a couple of those 20 people convinced them to re-read the POS and understand how they can and can't reallocate.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

If I won the lottery tomorrow, I would stay in those bungalows every time I visited Disney. I've never stayed in one, but I've toured one, and it was extremely appealing.

I would have liked to book 3-4 nights in one during April. However only one of the nights was available. I had booked 4 nights in January for a trip we cancelled. It was the last one and after I cancelled the nights were taken. I'm not certain why people actually think the majority are sitting empty.