Poll : Gratuities

Poll: Gratuities

  • It is reasonable to pay 15% Gratuity to compensate The underpaid employees

  • It would be reasonable to pay 15% if the service deserved it

  • To be forced to pay 15% gratuity is just like an extra tax

  • i think we should go back to the "paying a tip for good service" method

  • The 15% gratuity is fair and I don't mind paying it


Results are only viewable after voting.
Wee Hagis asked for opinions, and now is shooting down everyone with an opinion that differs from his. Should this thread not be more appropriately placed on the debate board?

You are correct Jasmine.
I did ask for opinions when I started this poll.
In order to stimulate conversation and get ones point over,its only to be expected that replies will be forthcoming.
We are not kids here and you are within your rights just as much as I to offer your opinion and disagreements with others if you choose to do so.

Now.....I am sure very much to the chagrin of Jasmine.,,,lol!
I have another comment on her previous post......
I beg to differ... I waited tables back in the early 80's and standard tip at that time was no less than 15%..

With all due respect .... I beg to differ.......unless of course ,you are only referring to the upscale restaurants that catered to the more well off clientelle.
During the 70s and the 80s the average tip was in the region of 10-15%.(at least this was the case in my travels through US,Canada,UK and Europe).
 
If its a buffet and all they are really doing is giving us our drinks then I tip 10%. If its a sit down and the svc is great then I tip 20-25%.
While I was at disney a few weeks ago, the person I was with was the cheapest tipper I have ever been with and he embarrassed me! On our bill of $55 at LTT he left a 1.50 tip! How cheap can you get? I added 8 more to it! The svc was wonderful and they went out of their way to set the table up for my DD's birthday and the food was good too! He did the same thing at a couple of other places we ate.
 
I know posting to these threads are always dangerous, but I'll put my two cents in.

I just got off the phone with my sister who is a server for Outback Steakhouse. I haven't seen this point posted yet (at least on this thread.) They have to share 3%, 1% each for busboys, bartenders and hostesses. She only works 3 nights a week, but claims that even with the average 15% (of which she gets 12%) she averages about $10 an hour. She's a military wife and has been a server for many years and has gotten a $100 tip on a $50 tab, "as appreciation for the families in the service" to no tip at all, when there had been no complaints, no requests and no explanations. She has even had the occasional table lay down $5 before they order and say that is the tip regardless of service. Her wage is $2.12 an hour. So, it's all across the board.

She did say that the worst tips were from fans during the World Cup. I haven't yet traveled to Europe and am unaware of the tipping standards. Are the tips included? Maybe they are not aware that tips are not included in the US and servers do not receive the same salary as those in another country? Don't flame me, I don't know this answer...

I start with 15% and go up for great service. I do tip 10% at buffets. I've remember a night my roommate from college came home in tears because a party of 12 left no tip and that was her only table for the night. (Carrabba's) They paid the last $10 of the bill in change. All the waitstaff pitched in to cover her tip. I know the math might sound good, but if servers were making $60/hr, we would all be doing the same. It's just not the case. Okay, I'm done ranting.



:D
 
maybe he was "tipping" on only his portion of the bill(s)??? and figured you'd put in your own portion of the tip??? or maybe he's just cheap like you thought. LOL

But to each their own on tipping. I know sometimes I overtip, but like I posted previously, it's at a restaurant I frequent and usually the same server.
 

I have yet to jump into one of these tipping debates, but here goes.

Voted, BTW, but didn't comment.Waiting for things to get interesting. Then my login got messed up for a few days.....

wee haggis - Were you looking for support for your tipping attitudes or were you really interested in understanding other's perspectives?

Jasmine was correct in defining rates from the eighties. I was there. Part of the 80's I waitressed and part of them I ate out quite a bit in all types of food establishments. It was 15%-20% THEN! But then, I live in New York.

A few questions play into the personal tipping attitudes..( are you there wee higgis?)(generic YOU)

What part of the country you were born and raised in? Did you go to restaurants as a kid? What were Mom & Dad's views on food service? Home cooking vs. restaurant food? Servers male and female?

I agree with raidermatt, and gina and jasmine, and many others. Maybe it flies in other parts of the country to stiff someone on a tip, or to expect goldstar service at a family-type restaurant, but it doesn't really work in the metro-areas of the country.

And I strongly agree that if you can't afford the 20% tip without grumbling - or voicing complaints to management as needed, then don't go to dinner.

Flame retardant suit ON!

melomouse
13 days to our next WDW trip!!!!!:bounce:
 
Gina2000, we raised our concern to the wait staff 20 minutes after ordering. Appetizers in a place like the Hard Rock are designed to hit the table quickly to make the time pass. When another 15 minutes passed we asked for management. Had the waiter brought our concern to the manager earlier, then I would say they had done their job. The manager in turn, failed to expedite our meal. When 45 minutes passed and we insisted that the manager return, his comment was that the restaurant was especially busy that day. The Hard Rock in Niagara Falls during the summer was especially busy? When aren't they? No surprise that Hard Rocks failed north of the border.

I'm just not getting this comment about tipping was 15% back then and it's time to increase it? The average restaurant tab in the 70's would have been about $10 to $15 per person in a typical quality but not fine dining restaurant. 15% of that would work out to $1.50 to $2.25 per person. Seems to me that anyone who has worked from the 70's into 2002 has seen their tips increase quite handsomely without an increase in the percentage that some think is mandated.

As far as following the "customs" of the area you visit is concerned, if this was stricktly adhered to, we wouldn't have hotel chains now would we.
 
wee haggis - Were you looking for support for your tipping attitudes or were you really interested in understanding other's perspectives?

Why does everyone get so upset when I have the "audacity" to actually make a comment about their post?
People have their opinions...I respect that...but it does'nt mean that I have to just sit back and say "C'est la vie".
I'm curious by nature and I'm interested in finding out how or why other opinions differ from mine.
It does'nt mean that I want to change their way of thinking...that would be very unlikely.

It was 15%-20% THEN! But then, I live in New York.

Let me see if can put this a different way...
When you travel (and I have quite extensively) you get to see the habits and customs of other towns,cities and countries.
Yes..indeed I'm sure in NY/NY in the 80's the going rate was 15-20% as was the case in London,Paris and Rome.
But,there are a million and one other towns that are not considered major metropolis's and where the tipping customs are somewhat different.

Maybe it flies in other parts of the country to stiff someone on a tip,
Nowhere on this thread has there been any mention of STIFFING anyone!
It is so unreasonable to suggest that if you get good service you pay an appropriate tip...and if you don't get good service..you don't??
 
You wanna know what I think? I think sometimes we have to accept the fact that we all need to agree to disagree on occasion :)
 
Here...Here....Disneymad.
I think this one has run its course !
I'm getting tired typing!
 
I tip 15% for average service, less or nothing for poor to bad service, and 20% or more for great service. Buffets get my 15% also and maybe more if they are really attentive and on their toes.
 
Calgarygary (I like that name), I have no problem with the way you handled the problem at the Hard Rock. Quite frankly, they haven't been the hit that was expected in the states, either. I have no problem with letting the management know how I feel or reflecting it in my tip.

As far as custom of the area, I think you are way off base. A typical example of price adjustment occurs with the McDonalds chain both in the States and abroad. Prices are adjusted according to what the market will bear - that is also true of hotel chains and sit-down restaurants alike. That is a management decision concerning pricing. Tipping, as I have suggested, is according to local custom, not according to what an individual is accustomed to. It is your choice to tip accordingly; I don't dispute it. But don't cite hotel chain pricing policies (which adjust from market to market) as a reason to tip according to your preferences.

As far as tipping in the 70s and 80s, I, too, have travelled extensively and have seen marked differences from country to country and have tried to observe local custom. Most places in Europe charge a service charge - however, many waiters expect a "sweetener" - a bit of change left on the table as a good will gesture indicating that the service was on par with expectation. Many Caribbean islands add a service charge to cover the cost of breakage and linen laundry with very little going to the waitstaff. In those places, a tip is expected. As far as percentage is concerned, I try to emulate local custom - be it 10 or 20%. I have no intention of insulting a waitstaff that has tried its best to ensure I have a memorable meal.
 
I too waited tables from 1982 until 1990... I worked everywhere from a pizza parlor to a fine seafood restaurant. The standard time during those times was 15% according to the little tipping guide that people carried in their pockets to determine tips, at each of the places that I worked. My pay from the restaurant, itself was $2.02 per hour. The only way we got paid more, was if we had no tables the entire time we were there, and then the restaurant paid us regular minimum wage, and that was $3.15- 3.45 an hour. Sometimes that was more than what we walked out of the restaurant with when we were tipped.

I agree with Jasmine,Melomouse, and others... if you can't afford to go to a restaurant and tip, then eat counter service where tips aren't expected.
 
Ah yes...when I first saw this thread I thought to myself "nah, don't read it...you'll just get caught up in it". Alas, my boyfriend and I couldn't resist and now I feel the need to respond.

First and foremost, I think I have reluctantly accepted that people are going to tip how they think they should and no amount of yelling, fighting or arguing on this board or elsewhere are going to change some people's minds. That still doesn't stop me from wanting to drop a few of my own thoughts. :) I think the funny thing is that I have yet to see a former server/waitress/waiter ever tell me that they won't tip at least 15%. I think it's because after you've worked in the industry (actually on the floor waiting on tables) you understand the ups and downs that every night can bring. I personally watch for things like a server who might have a large party or an unusually large section of tables. I look for that table with screaming kids or the punky teens who I have a creeping suspicion will not leave a big tip. And yes, it is just who I am...to take these things into consideration when I determine what my tip will be. Take my boyfriend for instance. He works at one of the largest and busiest restaurants in the city of Chicago...and if you've visited here you likely know what I'm talking about. He will often go out of his way to take care of children (he brings sliced bananas to the tables for families with young children) or large parties. And yet bamm...you can do everything in your might and people will still leave 10%...maybe 15%...or sometimes in his case $1 on a $100 bill. And no, it's not because he's a horrible server. Quite the opposite really and it's not because I'm biased....

So yes, there are some out there who argue that you will tip based on service received...but that is obviously a very subjective matter. But he (nor I when I was still a server) doesn't discriminate based on the table and whether he "thinks" he'll get a good tip. Everyone gets the same. So then, take a day when you consistently do your best and people still leave maybe 10 or 15%. Guess what, at this particular restaurant if you leave the bus boy anything less than $25...you'll get in trouble with a manager. Then you have the bartender and food runner to tip out and maybe even the dessert person if they had to make a bunch of desserts for you. It doesn't matter that you had lousy tips all day. You are still expected to tip out a certain amount. So to the person who leaves this minimum 8% that the govt makes you claim...shame on you (which btw has since gone up...the government now expects that you are WALKING HOME with 10% of what you sold). At most restaurants that have a bar or busboy, you have to give at least 3-5% of what your SALES were (no, not your tips, what you actually SOLD in food and drinks) to someone else...and sometimes a lot more than that.

I relate this story not to bore you (although I probably did for some) but to maybe shed a little light on this issue. For instance, many people probably don't know that the standard hourly wage in IL for servers is $3.09 an hour. You do not get a raise after so many years of service nor do your wages go up if the restaurants raise their food prices, as another poster suggested. In fact, at one Chicago chain servers actually make $2.64 per hour because the management automatically charges them 45 cents per hour worked for bread and soup...regardless if they ever even eat the stuff. And I'm sure there are just as many nuances all across the country. I for one didn't know that servers in CA made so much more than their IL counterparts...but that doesn't mean I'll tip less when I go to L.A. in January.

So then you could say hey, this is all great stuff...but it's not my problem that the restaurant industry is in such a state. Well let me tell you something...if we went to a European mode, as some suggest, service would go down the tubes my friends. The attitude of Americans differs so much from Europeans (and trust me, I've spent enough time in France to know) that it just would never work. People are already complaining about an automatic 15% gratuity. I do think it's the American way to be given the freedom to choose your tip, but that 15% for certain number of parties is because 1.) big groups can't always handle the math and 2.) a server has likely put a lot of time and effort in that table vs other tables they had...the restaurant wants to make sure they get compensated at least somewhat...otherwise I GUARANTEE you it would often happen that people would be left 10% or less...and not even based on bad service but simply because some people are cheap (refer to the poster who had the friend who left $1.50). But you should do so in an informed manner, not because you're afraid to part with those hard earned dollars. I'm a college grad barely making it...and my boyfriend and I have been saving for this trip for a while now...but that doesn't mean that we would ever think of not tipping someone an acceptable amount because we don't want to part with our hard-earned $$$. If you want the service, you need to pay for it.

And wee hagis...well, I've actually tempered my reaction to your posts...but let's just say that you if you are so intent on getting adequate service for what you're willing to tip...I suggest that you try putting out what you think will be an acceptable tip on the table BEFOREHAND next time...and see what happens to you.
 
While we tip 15% for acceptable service and 20% for good service, which seems to be a popular trend, I don't agree that paying servers more in wages rather than them depending on tips would negatively impact service. We like to cruise, and tipping is a hot subject with cruisers. The last 2 cruises we've opted to have the gratuities automatically charged to our account daily. Many passengers have said service would decline with this system because the staff doesn't have to earn their tips, but we got outstanding service that was every bit as good as the times we waited until the end to tip. If restaurants paid their waitstaff decently, it'd be like other businesses. If you don't perform, you're out of a job. There would certainly be motivation to provide good service, and servers would know how much they were making at the end of the day. I would think it would be better for them rather relying on the luck of the draw.

Most large parties are terrible tippers. They see the big lump of money and think it's too much not thinking about how much extra work the server had. However, with our family when we're told by a restaurant how much to tip, that's it. If they're demanding 15%, then that's what they're getting. They just missed out on the other 5%.
 
If restaurants paid their waitstaff decently, it'd be like other businesses. If you don't perform, you're out of a job. There would certainly be motivation to provide good service, and servers would know how much they were making at the end of the day. I would think it would be better for them rather relying on the luck of the draw.

I think Travelitis has made a good point.
Other than the odd poster,nobody has even mentioned the fact that some of these restaurant chains (who are obviously making a nice profit..thankyou very much),even consider paying their employees a reasonable wage instead of depending on the customer to boost it to a reasonable level.

I suggest that you try putting out what you think will be an acceptable tip on the table BEFOREHAND next time...and see what happens to you.

SmileyJoyz, I'm sorry but I had to laugh at your comment toward the end of your post.
Do you realize that what you are suggesting is nothing more than blackmail.
ie:If I don't fork over a tip considered by some to be the norm,then you don't get good service!

Why does the onus have to be on the customer to bring the wages of the servers up to a reasonable level?
It is obvious that the profiteering restaurants are simply taking advantage of their employees?
A good example is with the Sheraton chain employees in Canada who are unionized.They are making over minimum wage,the company is still thriving quite nicely and the restaurants still have a regular clientelle (who still tip by the way....I'm not suggesting they don't).
I do realize that this is a hotel restaurant chain and it probably differs from regular restaurants in the sense that the likelyhood of union representation is not there.
I did also recognize that many of the previous posters were ex or present wait staff, so I guess its only to be expected that some might get upset by my comments.
The thing is, I'm actually advocating higher wages for you.The only difference is I want the company to pay it...not the customers (just like any other commercial business).
 
Wee-haggis, I believe to some degree you are playing devil's advocate here. Take a look at some of these quotes....

Originally posted by wee-haggis


Seriously though...To pay $20 tip on $100 dinner is just plain ridiculous (unless,of course he or she sat at your table and spoon fed you the entire meal.

Right here you object to people making a decision based on performance because it doesn't agree with your perception of value.

And here....

Originally posted by wee-haggis
The concensus seems to be that the customer should have the right to decide whether (and by how much) he or she decides is suitable for a tip for the server.
For the restaurants to automaticaly tack on 15% removes the incentive for the servers to do a good job.
Let the people decide!

In the US, a gratuity is only added to a bill if the table has 6 or more people eating. Otherwise, it is at the patron's discretion to decide the dollar amount they choose to leave. However, within a society, norms are established based on cost of living. People try to frame their tipping based on these norms. If our society deems 20% as an average, leaving 15% for a fabulous experience is not enough. Your last comment in this statement was, "Let the people decide!" I think they did.


Now here you say....

Originally posted by wee-haggis
Lastly.... the automatic 15% gratuity is the death knell for good service....Where's the incentive for the employee?

If that is the case, then raising salaries and reducing tipping opportunities is also a death knoll. If the waitstaff does not have a tipping incentive to work towards via providing better service, then lax service ensues by your own estimation.

But yet, here you say.....

Originally posted by wee-haggis
If restaurants paid their waitstaff decently, it'd be like other businesses. If you don't perform, you're out of a job. There would certainly be motivation to provide good service, and servers would know how much they were making at the end of the day. I would think it would be better for them rather relying on the luck of the draw.

You can't have it both ways. You suggest that waitstaff should receive better pay. That negates incentive no matter where the better pay comes from - be it the corporation or the automatically added service gratuity.

Oh, and by the way, most good restaurants will fire waitstaff that does not perform. It reflects directly upon them and their repeat business. Who do you know that goes back to a restaurant after receiving poor service?
 
In the US, a gratuity is only added to a bill if the table has 6 or more people eating. Otherwise, it is at the patron's discretion to decide the dollar amount they choose to leave.

The above and following quotes is from gina2000.

Actually, I'm a non-American and I know thats not the case.
In several restaurants in Florida only 2 weeks ago we paid 15% gratuity with a party of 4.
The difference is that if you were not happy with the service,you could ask for the 15% to be removed (It stated that right on the bill.....I never did that by the way).



If that is the case, then raising salaries and reducing tipping opportunities is also a death knoll. If the waitstaff does not have a tipping incentive to work towards via providing better service, then lax service ensues by your own estimation

I think a pretty good incentive is to do your job ..or your out!
(But...unfortunately this will never happen until the restaurant pay rates get into the 21st century).

You can't have it both ways. You suggest that waitstaff should receive better pay. That negates incentive no matter where the better pay comes from - be it the corporation or the automatically added service gratuity

By the way you quoted me proceeding your quote.
It was'nt actually my quote....lol...mmmm..I'm confused too!
This is partially due to my inexperience with making use of the quote process on these boards.
Here is my quote:
For the restaurants to automaticaly tack on 15% removes the incentive for the servers to do a good job

I have been so intent in replying to other posters' comments that I find that I'm accidentally contradicting myself.
I appologize for the misunderstanding.
I hope that nobody is too upset by my comments.
I'm really quite a nice guy....honestly.(I'm just too argumentative much to my wife's anoyance)!
I think I've come to the end of my thread on this (no pun intended).
Over and out..amen.
 
wee hagis--my suggestion was meant to be sarcastic. Although I have actually encountered servers who have had this happen to them...a repeat customer who would take a dollar off the table if, after his watch hit 5 minutes and he had not be revisited by his server yet to check on him.

As for the restaurants paying servers better wages, if it DID somehow happen, it would only mean that you as customers would end up paying more for their meal. Do you really think any business out there is going to eat into their profits to pay people more?? No...they will raise the cost of your food to make up for the difference. And so, what I meant by my post was that it would never happen because too many people would be against having their food cost more...if it did happen, it would in effect be an automatic tip (even if it wouldn't be called that anymore)...which I believe is exactly what you were arguing against (the 15% gratuity). Some McDonald's around here pay their employees $7 an hour...but that far from means that they are "better" employees or give the greatest service. Giving servers better hourly wages is still going to take more money out of your pocket in the end...but with tips the way they are now you at least still get to make that choice of how much. Granted you won't be very popular if you consistently tip low (and who knows, maybe you don't...maybe you just want to incite some debate on the boards) but I'd just ask that you walk a mile (or 3 or 4 in an average night) in a server's shoes before you make blanket statements about people not caring about their job or their customers. I may not like paying for an oil change, but until I learn how to do it myself (which I have no desire to) I'm willing to pay those people to do it for me. If you don't like dining out, then learn how to cook better meals at home. :) :)

End of discussion for me. ;) ;) ;)
 
I'm pretty sure that you do not have to pay a tip that's included in the bill.

For whoever said that waiters make around 60K. I waited tables a bunch of years ago and I made $200 a week for six shifts. After taxes my check was around $35 a week. That works out to a little over $12,000. Waiting tables is generally not the way to get rich.

Mike
 
Originally posted by SmileyJoyz
So then you could say hey, this is all great stuff...but it's not my problem that the restaurant industry is in such a state. Well let me tell you something...if we went to a European mode, as some suggest, service would go down the tubes my friends.

I disagree. I have travelled extensively to places where the gratuity is included (UK, France, Japan) and did not see a degradation in service.

I think gratutities should be included in the price of the food. It makes things easier all around.

Personally, I think tipping for restaurant service is arcane. It gives people a false sense of control over their meal and service. Does the server know that a customer starts at 20% and mark down for every infraction? No. Do they know that a customer doesn't "believe" in tipping. No. Do they know that a customer will tip an even 15% without thinking? No. Good servers will treat every table the same. Bad servers will either treat everyone poorly or will make a snap value judgement about the pair of LOLs or the people with the 5 kids and just treat them poorly. Tipping after the fact does not change behavior before the tip. Good servers will still be good and bad servers will still be bad.

Can some of the people in the UK weigh in here? I'd be curious how they feel about American tipping habits.
 












Receive up to $1,000 in Onboard Credit and a Gift Basket!
That’s right — when you book your Disney Cruise with Dreams Unlimited Travel, you’ll receive incredible shipboard credits to spend during your vacation!
CLICK HERE







New Posts





DIS Facebook DIS youtube DIS Instagram DIS Pinterest DIS Tiktok DIS Twitter DIS Bluesky

Back
Top Bottom