Poll : Gratuities

Poll: Gratuities

  • It is reasonable to pay 15% Gratuity to compensate The underpaid employees

  • It would be reasonable to pay 15% if the service deserved it

  • To be forced to pay 15% gratuity is just like an extra tax

  • i think we should go back to the "paying a tip for good service" method

  • The 15% gratuity is fair and I don't mind paying it


Results are only viewable after voting.
DOH!

And here I was trying to keep my head down ;)

Ok, I am in the UK and I will give you my take on things.

We DO tip in the UK. However, not anywhere near like you folks in the States do. (I think in general, we only tip in restaurants and taxi's - oh and maybe bellman, but I can't afford to stay in any hotels over here that are up-market enough to employ bellman, LOL, so that rules me out) Waitstaff are not wonderfully paid over here, but it is much better than in the US. If I were to go out for a meal over here - and was especially happy with service, I'd be looking to tip 10%. If service was ok, but nothing special, it would be less. If service was poor/slow, there would be no tip at all. Period.

For Brits visiting the US, it can be difficult to get into the right 'frame of mind' - tipping for food, drinks and goodness knows what else it seems sometimes, LOL - for us, the amount of people you are expected to tip (in general) and the % seems excessive compared to our habits at home, especially when you are talking as high as 20%+. As a result, the Brits in general are known to be poor tippers. A catch 22 situation has developed. Waitstaff may not work so hard serving a Brit because they think there will be little or no tip at the end (Darn accent is a bit of a giveaway!). The Brit then receives poor service :mad: therefore they don't want to leave a tip! I personally am, however, a firm believer of 'When in Rome...' So I do tip more than I EVER would at home. Generally, I leave around 15% for good service (or $1 a drink at the bar - I've learned it's important to keep my barman sweet, hehehe) - but the service would have to be exceptional for me to leave more.

There are good servers and bad servers everywhere - I've been well treated in the UK, and I've been poorly treated in the US....and vice versa.

Given the choice - personally I prefer the system in the UK. Yes, I pay more for my meal, but pay a smaller % tip - the 'incentive' for the server to put that little bit of effort in for you is still there. It is unthinkable over here that we feel obliged to pay a tip simply because that is the person's salary- at the end of the day, I am not that person's employer, the restaurant is. It's believed a person is tipped for the service they provide over and above the minimum required effort to do their job. Because of the Brit 'tipping reputation' we have in the tourist areas of the States, the US system is actually prejudicial against me - regardless of my own tipping habits, therefore, for that reason alone, I'm not so keen on it.
 
It is unthinkable over here that we feel obliged to pay a tip simply because that is the person's salary- at the end of the day, I am not that person's employer, the restaurant is. It's believed a person is tipped for the service they provide over and above the minimum required effort to do their job.

LOL!!!.....Disneymad has actually managed to say in 1 paragraph what I've been trying to say in 10 posts.
Bravo!
 
Hey, Wee......I sent you a pm on "how to quote".


BTW....different countries, different rules. Can't help that! And unfortunately, I won't penalize the server for the custom of the country.

Here's a good example. In Aruba, non-American/European style restaurants (usually owned and operated by Arubans) charge a service charge of 15% above the cost of dinner. Virtually none of it goes to the server. It goes towards linen cleaning, breakage and restaurant maintenance. Many restaurants explain that practise right on the menu. So what do I do? Penalize the server? NO WAY! Would you????
 
Originally posted by robinb
I disagree. I have travelled extensively to places where the gratuity is included (UK, France, Japan) and did not see a degradation in service.

robinb--you missed my point. I think that Europeans provide outstanding service!!! We, as Americans, however, do not think the same way as Europeans do. In Europe eating is an art form (and they aren't as overweight as us Americans!!) and servers don't believe in rushing people or discriminating. My point was that if we tried to do as the Europeans do (including gratuity in the price of the food) you would NOT get the same results. I could go on and on about the differences in mores, honor and respect that exist between America and some of the countries you mention but that's not the point. Take an employee at a fast food chain (and no, not all everyone who works at a McDonald's, etc is a slacker) who doesn't care about his/her job. Same thing would happen if people didn't have to work for their tips. You would still have some good servers but you wouldn't get rid of the bad servers, no matter how much the wages were raised.
 

Originally posted by SmileyJoyz
Take an employee at a fast food chain (and no, not all everyone who works at a McDonald's, etc is a slacker) who doesn't care about his/her job. Same thing would happen if people didn't have to work for their tips. You would still have some good servers but you wouldn't get rid of the bad servers, no matter how much the wages were raised.

I still don't see how me tipping someone poorly at the end of the meal will get rid of a bad server. They quit? My guess is that a bad server will be fired instead under either pay scale. As for fast food employees I have found them much the same all over the world :D.

So ... I guess we'll just agree to disagree ;).
 
Actually, I'm just confused by what your stance is in the first place. Europeans and Americans---different people, different attitudes, different results. :) :) But I do agree that in either model the bad servers will quit/get fired (we DO agree on something!). But then another bad server could just (unknowingly) be hired in his/her place. And you, the customer, would still pay for the server's salary in either model as well. In the tipping model, you get to choose how much. In the higher wages model, you have most of that choice taken away from you (unless you choose to leave extra) because they write the cost of higher wages into their food prices.
 
Originally posted by SmileyJoyz
In the higher wages model, you have most of that choice taken away from you (unless you choose to leave extra) because they write the cost of higher wages into their food prices.

Would'nt it be fair to say ( like any other job on the market),higher wages attract higher level of job candidate/applicant?
Also, low paid jobs generally have a high turnover
(constant re-training by management).
If turnover is kept to a minimum ,the workers would have job familiarity and experience which would be beneficial to the customer and the restaurant.
I think it was Disneymad who said that it really does'nt matter how you pay the restaurant whether it be...
Bill + Gratuity
or
Bill + Tip
or
Bill on its own
( the latter is assuming a higher level of pay for the servers),the end result is probably about the same (as far as $ out of your pocket is concerned) .
 
The problem with the notion of higher wages automatically attracting better employees is flawed when applied to the restaurant industry. First of all, the idea of waiting on someone hand and foot is not appealing to many people, which is maybe why the serving industry is filled with a disproportionate number of less than ideal workers. I ask you to ask yourself why you have never worked in the industry. I don't expect an answer, I just think it's something you should think about. Second, you have to think of why people go into serving in the first place. While in college I could maybe average $80-$100/night on a weekend (for about 7 hours of work overall, from start to finish and I worked in a fairly good restaurant). I worked very hard for my tips, but I couldn't make that working at a department store, business, etc. Unless the food industry planned on paying people MORE than they could make at one of these other jobs, what would be the incentive to take such a job? Oh sure you can get criticized and demoralized while working the cash register at Walmart, but I guarantee you it happens twice as often if you are food serving. People go out to eat with the idea of having a relaxing meal with no worries (as they should). This demands more of the person serving them than it ever took me to ring up a sale at the local store. I came home more frustrated, exhausted and dejected far more often than I ever did with any of the other jobs I have ever had (not to say that this was the norm every night).

So of course in theory it sounds nice. Pay the same amount as area stores around a restaurant and only tip a little extra if the service was outstanding. But I don't know of too many people who would say yes, I will run around screaming babies and kids on the floor to get some extra salad dressing for table #3 while I check on the appetizer for table #5 and make sure I bring out the milk for table #2 and individual checks for the people at table #1, all for $6.50 an hour with little promise that I'll make much more than that. Tell me how many people out there are willing to do that even with the promise of good tips right now?? You aren't going to get the cream of the crop saying "yeah, I want to wait on people now that they pay more". It doesn't make a difference how much you pay an hour, you aren't going to pull in all the great employees because the profession isn't thought of with high regard. How many people do you see clamoring to pick up your garbage? Not too many I suspect, but trash collectors are paid fairly well around here. Doesn't mean that people are racing to sign up though. I dare you to work a week at a busy restaurant, and you will see what I mean.

BTW, I stopped serving almost two years ago when I graduated college and thankfully have a much less stressful job now. The turn over you talk of would still happen. Where do you think a lot of college students make their money? Who else would be so flexible with our hours???

So I guess I lied with my second post and said I was done. But now I really need to be. I don't know what I would have thought if I had never worked in a restaurant, but I can tell you that it opened my eyes to many things. I had people call me names, treat me with disdain as if I were a stupid high school dropout and act like I had nothing better than to wait on only them. The whole attitude towards the profession needs to change (notice how people have only pointed out all the evil bad servers they had) before you can ever hope for some solution beyond having to do the math to leave at least a 15% tip. Even if you don't want to leave a tip, there are still enough of us out there who will.
 
Originally posted by SmileyJoyz
Even if you don't want to leave a tip, there are still enough of us out there who will.
And shouldn't this be what it all comes down to?? It should be a choice?

I am more then glad to leave a tip for a server who goes out of their way to serve me. I am less inclined to want to leave a tip for a server who is in fact just doing his/her job. And I have to say in most cases 95% of the servers I have run in to do bare minimum.
 
I usually tip 15% at a minimum and frequently 20 - 25 %.

Let me ask opinions on how anyone else would have tipped in this situation. We went out to eat last Friday night, (3 adults, 2 kids), fairly expensive restaurant, (Approx $18 - $28 entree range). 3 Adults had alcoholic drinks, we shared 4 expensive appetizers before ordering dinner. Service was fine except for one thing. We started ordering dinner and the waiter had no pad or pen out so I said, "Maybe you should write this down", I hate when waiters try to remember complicated orders. He says, "Oh, I'll get everything right". My wife was delivered the wrong type of potato, baked vs. sweet, my daughter was delivered the wrong kind of sandwich, hamburger vs. chicken, 2 of 3 salad dressings were incorrect.

This whole deal about waiters trying to impress us with their memory is a huge pet peeve of mine. How would you all have tipped in this situation?
 
You did.nt say if you tipped in this situation?
If your minimum is 15%.
Do you mean 15%...when you actually DO tip
or
15% minimum no matter what the service (ie: your example)

My opinion......."No Tip For You Muchacho!"
 
I would have been pissed. Big time. Probably would have left about 12% and a request with the manager that the waiter learn to write.

I know many people would leave nothing or next to nothing. I think 12% is a huge insult - especially in the NY metro area. He'd get the message.
 
Originally posted by Bob NC
How would you all have tipped in this situation?
I would probably have tiped ZIPPO. But then you have to ask did the kitchen mess up the order or did the server....I am likely to believe the server since he did not write down the order.
 
I left 15%. LOL, the peppercorn NY strip with brandy cream sauce was good enough to alleviate some of my upset. Though, really, it WOULD have been higher if he hadn't screwed himself.

But then you have to ask did the kitchen mess up the order or did the server....

Frankly, I don't have to ask myself that question. I look at the waiter or waitress as my representative in the kitchen. If my daughter orders a burger and they bring a chicken sandwich, I pin the whole deal on the server.

If the server wants my 15 - 20% they have to be responsible for SOMETHING other than simply being a delivery person.
 
Well, if you had mentioned the NY strip with brandy cream sauce in your original post.......;)

And as much as we all have different ideas as to what an appropriate tip is or what should be left in a less-than-desireable situation, the bottom line is that there is a choice. And for me, that's what it's all about.

Now let's get back to that steak.......:p
 
I know this will get flaming, but- I have no sympathy for servers. There are plenty of other jobs out there that can be just as undesireable with little pay.
 
We tip 20%+ for good service, and 15% if the service is not that great. The lowest I have tipped was 10% on really bad service (I would tell the manager in a case like this too. Luckly they are few and far between.) I was a waitress in college and my husband has waited tables too. I am from NY and DH is from MA if that has anything to do with it:) I also waited on tables in the 80's and 15%+ was always the norm even when I was little and we went out to eat (70's.) I also tip the 20% after tax.

I think a lot of people are cheaper than we think. Just the other day DH and I went out to eat and there was a large table next to us. It was a family with a few children, parents and grandparents. After they left another server came over to help the waitress clear and she said to her "never mind a tip they stiffed me $5.00 on the bill." Guess what, she probably had to make this up out of her pocket. She was a good waitress and gave that family with their screaming kids very good service the whole time we were there. Sad.

I will say that I find the trend of putting out tip cups, jars, etc.. at places like Starbucks, Dunkin Donuts, fast food places weird. Don't they make $6.00+ per hour? I guess it is more $$ for them though.
 
How I would have tipped BobNC's server would depend on how well he rectified the mistakes that he made.

If he resolved the mistake as quickly as he was able and I was satisfied, then my tip would probably be pretty close or identical to what it would have been if it had been correct in the first place. If he messed up the mess-up (if you know what I mean!) and we were waiting ages or the party was eating their meals at different times etc. Then there would be little or no tip - and I would have made sure that he would have known it wasn't because I was trying to stiff him :rolleyes:

Everyone can make mistakes, and things can and do get messed up - so it's just as important to me how those mistakes are handled.

Bob, how was your server after you told him about the mistakes? Was you satisfied with how he handled it? Or did you still tip 15% regardless?
 












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