Political: Iraqi Soccer Players Mad About Bush Ad

[cati]

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[WillyJ]

Here's a link to the story on AOL/Sports Illustrated.com. . . Soccer Story


I don't recall the Iraqi people asking to be invaded and occupied, and anyone has a right not to want their image to be used in a political ad. . .


Giving the Bush people a skeptical benefit of the doubt still; just have to see if they continue using that part of the ad. . .


Surely there are some Iraqi athletes who wouldn't mind being in it; perhaps they could use their image instead of the soccer players. .

 

[KarenC]

Originally posted by Disney Doll
But he was pretty glad when Uday Hussein was killed, right? And who did that??? Oh that's right...the USA & our allies!!!!!

The Iraqis didn't take their freedom into their own hands until what country got there? Oh, that's right...the USA & our allies!!!!!

So we were good enough to get rid of the guys no one liked, but now we should get out.

I think they are afraid of "meet the new boss, just like the old boss".

 

[vernon]

Whether you agree or not with the invasion/liberation of Iraq, I think it's pretty tasteless (and stupid as this has given rise to complaint from the Iraqis involved) to use the image of Iraqis for political purposes without asking their permission first.

I don't think there is a single person here that would accept their own image being used to support an event or ideal( political, commercial or charitable) that they strongly disagreed with.

 

[Jimbo]

Originally posted by WillyJ
I don't recall the Iraqi people asking to be invaded and occupied, and anyone has a right not to want their image to be used in a political ad. . .

So when you heard that Michael Moore used footage of soldiers without their permission in F-9/11, I'll bet you were pretty upset, right?

 

[Elwood Blues]

Originally posted by WillyJ


I don't recall the Iraqi people asking to be invaded and occupied,

I suppose you believe that they wanted things to remain just like they were? Even with the beastly brothers looming in the wings to take over when daddy SH retired?


We altered history forever. And hopefully you and the others that say we shouldn't have gone in at all for any reason deeply believe that the change is for the better and they can gain better self-rule and hold on to it.

I don't know what to think of people who (on the surface) appear to want Iraq to remain as it was.

 

[peachgirl]

Originally posted by Jimbo
So when you heard that Michael Moore used footage of soldiers without their permission in F-9/11, I'll bet you were pretty upset, right?

MM's film is irrelevent. It was not a campaign ad made by or paid for by the Kerry campaign.


But, if diversionary tactics are the game of the day...

I suppose you think those veterans who didn't want their pictures used by the Kerry campaign had no right to complain either?


I don't care what American has or has not done for the Iraqi's. The Bush campaign shouldn't use their images for political gain if those involved don't want them to.

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[LisaSt]

I think it is wrong for him to use the team especially if he didn't have permission to do so from each and every player on the team. I hope the ad gets dropped very quickly.

 

[year2late]

The question is not whther or not our actions "freed" a country.

The soccer player was apparantly used in a political ad that he clearly did not want to be in. I would be pissed, too.

I think it is just awful that he was used in such a manner. Did anyone stop to think that this man lost thousands of fellow countrymen so he could play soccer ?

 

[ckmommy]

I do not get what is wrong with the ad, and why the soccar team is so upset. From what I have read about the ad, only the FLAGS of Iraq and Afghanistan are shown, then the quote "At this Olympics there will be two more free nations -- and two fewer terrorist regimes." I have not seen the ad, but I do not see the big deal.

 

[peachgirl]

I do not see the big deal.

Would you see the big deal if, in another country, a candidate you didn't care for used the American flag and referred to specific groups of Americans in a commercial to promote their political agenda?



Perhaps these men hold the flag of their country as near and dear to their hearts as we Americans do ours. It's their country, not Bush's.

 

[LisaSt]

Well said peachgirl MTE. you just beat me to it LOL.

 

[treesinger]

Originally posted by WillyJ
I think you might have a valid point there Jason..


But I also think the over-all point is that Bush's people used the team as a political prop without considering or obviously asking what they thought about it. . .


I won't immediately trash them for this; while unlikely based on their past history it is at least possible Rove and Co. just didn't stop and consider the feelings of the soccer players and now that they know them they'll respect their feelings and edit out their image or stop running the ad. . .

If they don't, I'll have a few things to say though. .

I think that the players being in the ad was only to represent Iraqi sport, not those particular athletes. And in that context, I understand why they put them in the ad. If they meant to say that these particular athletes endorsed the ad (or Bush), then that is unacceptable.

Let me do this another way. We've helped reopen many schools in Iraq. If Bush made an ad that featured some schoolchildren that otherwise would not have their school, and those children and their families did not like Americans, I'd still be for using the ad. It shows obvious progress and benefits.
Now, yes, innocent Iraqi's died to make this happen. I would argue, however, that Saddam would have killed as many or more than we did and wouldn't have built the school. And tyhe killing by SH would have continued. If they want to only hate us for killing some of their brethren to free them, ok. As long as they acknowledge that life under SH would have remained worse and would not have improved.

 

[treesinger]

Originally posted by peachgirl
Would you see the big deal if, in another country, a candidate you didn't care for used the American flag and referred to specific groups of Americans in a commercial to promote their political agenda?



Perhaps these men hold the flag of their country as near and dear to their hearts as we Americans do ours. It's their country, not Bush's.

I would hope that, were the roles reversed, I would be eternally grateful to the Iraqi army for freeing us from oppression. Yes, I would grieve for those we lost. But, in any revolution, many would die to secure the freedom and the future of the country. That another country would be the one to fight the revolution doesn't change that fact. The good, especially with the passage of time, FAR outweighs the cost.

 

[kbeverina]

Originally posted by peachgirl
MM's film is irrelevent. It was not a campaign ad made by or paid for by the Kerry campaign.

So is that a yes or no you have no problem with Michael Moore doing the same thing?

Are you saying it's not okay because it's a campaign ad, otherwise you have no problem with it?

 

[peachgirl]

Originally posted by kbeverina
So is that a yes or no you have no problem with Michael Moore doing the same thing?

Are you saying it's not okay because it's a campaign ad, otherwise you have no problem with it?

No, I'm saying just what I said...it's irrelevent.

I'm on a quest to stop enabling those who want to sidestep the issue being discussed. We're discussing the use of the Iraq and Afghanistan flags and the use of the Iraqi's playing soccer in order to further Bush's political agenda.

A film made by MM has nothing to do with that.


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[kbeverina]

Originally posted by peachgirl
No, I'm saying just what I said...it's irrelevent.

I'm on a quest to stop enabling those who want to sidestep the issue being discussed. We're discussing the use of the Iraq and Afghanistan flags and the use of the Iraqi's playing soccer in order to further Bush's political agenda.

A film made by MM has nothing to do with that.

Of course it's relevant. The very heart of the issue is whether it's ethical to make someone appear to be approving of your politics and approving of their appearance in your footage.

That point was made regarding Michael Moore's movie--that this is an objection to some of the footage he included. In the continuing double standard we witness here, it's apparently not objectionable for Moore to do it, but it is objectionable for Bush to do it.

Several soldiers and families of soldiers who died objected to being used in Michael Moore's movie, objected to the funerals being shown for goodness sake--and no one called it tasteless or seemed to find it at all objectionable.

I saw the commercial--I don't think it's nearly as objectionable as what Moore did. The soccer players were never shown, they weren't shown saying they thought the US was great or that they supported the war or that any of the athletes supported the war. The soccer players were never mentioned.

But I do understand their objections--they might not have to live in fear that they'll be tortured when they get back to Iraq, but there's a lot more to the story going on back home. I'm sure they object to an ad that makes it all look rosy, thanks to President Bush. I get that.

It doesn't seem to matter if an ad is positive or negative--there'll be something wrong with it somehow.

 

[DawnCt1]

The soccer team needs to get over it. There is nothing in the ad that isn't true. They can thank the American soldiers for their freedom.

 

[peachgirl]

Of course it's relevant.

Ok, then, you discuss it.

 

[kbeverina]

If you're not sure if you have a problem with Michael Moore doing the same thing, just say so. What's the big deal?