Police called to School on 5 year-old's tantrum

[ilovefh]

Instead of trying to bash the child, and bash parents, etc....
I think we ought to asking our wonderful and hallowed school systems why an unstable and violent child is in that classroom endangering all the other innocent children, who should be able to LEARN.

Because of a few things. Like another poster pointed out students are required to be the least restrictive environment. To move them from that requires A LOT of documentation. Also, I'm not sure if this is the case everywhere, but in NH it was also VERY costly for the district to place kids because the district had to pay for it. Imagine how much your taxes would go up!

 

[MM27]

Instead of trying to bash the child, and bash parents, etc....
I think we ought to asking our wonderful and hallowed school systems why an unstable and violent child is in that classroom endangering all the other innocent children, who should be able to LEARN.

As another posters said, special ed laws say that kids need to be educated in a least restrictive environment. Therefore, self-contained special ed classes are going away in favor of in-class support with an inclusion teacher. I had the inclusion class last year and out of 6 special ed kids that I had, two of them really belonged in my class. The other 4 should never have been moved out of a self-contained class. It is a distraction to the other kids, and does halt their learning. I can't tell you the number of times I told this to the head of the Child Study Team. However, all they care about is meeting the percentage of self-contained students that the state says they are allowed to have. My district had too many kids in self-contained classes, according to the state, and even though they need to be there, they are slowly being pushed out.

I'm not a parent, but if I were and my child was in a class with a student that was causing major distractions on a daily basis, I would be complaining every day until they either moved my child or moved the child causing the problems. The problem is, many of the kids don't go home and say anything.

 

[Robindianne]

As a former teacher in an inner city environment I can tell you that calling the parents often is a complete waste of time....they are one of the reasons the child is acting out the way that they are. I can't even tell you the number of unanswered calls I have made, being told off, told it is my job to fix the kid not theirs etc.

I think the school did the right thing. What is they had not been able to calm him down in the time it took the police to get there. What if they child ended up severly injuring themselves or someone else in the midst of the tantrum? Or if the teacher/principal tried to restrain the child to prevent them for injuring themselves and as a result the child was injured anyway? Then the school has a whole other set of problems.

Most of us are diligent, responsible parents who would give the world for our children. We volunteer at school, work with our kids and discipline them teaching right from wrong. Sadly not all parents are like that. In fact many are not. There are parents who are selfish, unstable, drug/alcohol addicted, absentee parents etc. A school can only do so much and if it takes a phone call to the police to ensure the safety and legal coverage of ALL involved, then so be it.

This

 

[happygirl]

This is what happens when schools are so afraid to discpline kids.

 

[mhsjax]

I may get flamed for this, but I don't think that a child that is violent has the "right" to be educated with others. Since when does that child's "right" trump all of the other kids "right" to not be hurt. sorry but this doesn't cut it for me.

As far as I am concerned when a child throws things and hits and punches, or worse, like some other pp said, then that childs' rights are gone as far as public education. Adults can't act like this, so why do kids get to. They need to be removed from anyone else that they can hurt.

 

[daisyduck123]

This is what happens when schools are so afraid to discpline kids.

Oh believe me, we are not afraid to....it's just a matter of what we are ALLOWED to do.

 

[*BTMRR*]

I may get flamed for this, but I don't think that a child that is violent has the "right" to be educated with others. Since when does that child's "right" trump all of the other kids "right" to not be hurt. sorry but this doesn't cut it for me.

As far as I am concerned when a child throws things and hits and punches, or worse, like some other pp said, then that childs' rights are gone as far as public education. Adults can't act like this, so why do kids get to. They need to be removed from anyone else that they can hurt.

My son's class (for the first part of 2nd grade year) included a student who was extremely violent, had rages that involved throwing chairs and cursing at the teacher and shoving students and so on. The police weren't called as far as I know, but a couple of large strong male teachers frequently were.
The student would be removed from class for the rest of the day, but he always returned. The teacher told me that her "hands were tied but medications were being adjusted."
I believe that her hands WERE tied. It was very sad for everyone involved. My son was like a different person (happy again!) once we moved to a new school.
I don't think inclusion is always a good answer.

 

[almburr]

Oh believe me, we are not afraid to....it's just a matter of what we are ALLOWED to do.

So true! Ive been kicked punched and have had laptops and chairs thrown at me. All I can do is move out of the way until they tire out or get to a point where they may endanger themselves.

 

[mhsjax]

So true! Ive been kicked punched and have had laptops and chairs thrown at me. All I can do is move out of the way until they tire out or get to a point where they may endanger themselves.

YOu are a better person than I am. I would either be fired or be in jail. I could care less if they endanger themselves or not after that point. There is no way I could just sit there, unless I was literally afraid to move.

 

[quentina]

Seems to me that unless the child has a problem, such as autism or some other issue, then the parents aren't disciplining at home. This isn't normal and I think calling the police was a good thing, maybe it scared him.

And if some kid threw a car at my kid, God help the kid and the parents. There is no excuse for that at that age. Sounds like that kids needs some serious help. And shouldn't be around other kids.

I disagree....prior to my adoption, I would have thought the same thing. Let me tell you, I do disipline and my little guy is in trouble...a lot. He started Kindergarten this year, has been to the principles office and has had quite a lot of issues at school. Fortunatley, we got an amazing teacher who knows his history, prior to us, and we have been working together to solve the problem. Issues include running, not following direction, throwing mulch at recess and similar things. He is a good kid who makes impulsive decisions and doesn't process the ramifications of the action. Do I think he would intentionally hurt someone, I do not as he doesn't at home, is good with pets etc.

He has been to a psychiatrist/counselor/developmental doctor who claim he does not have any diagnosis....he is developmentally delayed due to nutritional neglect and he will catch up. He was 6 in June however; charts at 4.5.

When you live something, you learn and develop and know that not everything is black and white. Believe me, there is a chance that someone may throw a toy at your kid at some point....it happens. I can't imagine what you would do although I do understand that you would be upset. If you showed up at my door, I would give you a copy of the 1000 pages of case file to read.......and a box of tissues. No other explanation would be needed.

 

[mhsjax]

I disagree....prior to my adoption, I would have thought the same thing. Let me tell you, I do disipline and my little guy is in trouble...a lot. He started Kindergarten this year, has been to the principles office and has had quite a lot of issues at school. Fortunatley, we got an amazing teacher who knows his history, prior to us, and we have been working together to solve the problem. Issues include running, not following direction, throwing mulch at recess and similar things. He is a good kid who makes impulsive decisions and doesn't process the ramifications of the action. Do I think he would intentionally hurt someone, I do not as he doesn't at home, is good with pets etc.

He has been to a psychiatrist/counselor/developmental doctor who claim he does not have any diagnosis....he is developmentally delayed due to nutritional neglect and he will catch up. He was 6 in June however; charts at 4.5.

When you live something, you learn and develop and know that not everything is black and white. Believe me, there is a chance that someone may throw a toy at your kid at some point....it happens. I can't imagine what you would do although I do understand that you would be upset. If you showed up at my door, I would give you a copy of the 1000 pages of case file to read.......and a box of tissues. No other explanation would be needed.

I am truly sorry for your troubles. And I don't know how old you rchild was when he was adopted, but I know that I have friend that adopted a child that a little older and he had an attachment disorder and sometimes these kids have other problems that may not have a diagnosis.

However, that doesn't excuse a child from hurting other kids and if this is a problem with any child I still feel that they DO NOT have the right to be in another class with other kids. The reason I say it doesn't excuse them is because although I know it is an illness, they have no business in the classroom with other kids. So there wouldn't be any reason for them to hurt another child in school.

If and this is an if, your or any or child had a reoccuring problem with this, then I wouldn't give a flip about your 1000 page case file. If it wasn't, then I would not be at your doorstep either, but I would still be ticked.

My kids are older and they have never gotten anything thrown at them, because believe me, they would tell me.

 

[penn19]

I am truly sorry for your troubles. And I don't know how old you rchild was when he was adopted, but I know that I have friend that adopted a child that a little older and he had an attachment disorder and sometimes these kids have other problems that may not have a diagnosis.

However, that doesn't excuse a child from hurting other kids and if this is a problem with any child I still feel that they DO NOT have the right to be in another class with other kids. The reason I say it doesn't excuse them is because although I know it is an illness, they have no business in the classroom with other kids. So there wouldn't be any reason for them to hurt another child in school.

If and this is an if, your or any or child had a reoccuring problem with this, then I wouldn't give a flip about your 1000 page case file. If is wasn't then I would not be at your doorstep either, but I would still be ticked.

My kids are older and they have never gotten anything thrown at them, because believe me, they would tell me.

Agreed. There are 2 children (that I know of) that were adopted that are in my ds grade. They have both gone off multiple times. Not trying to be heartless or anything but MY child has a right to a safe environment and that trumps the violent childs right to be in that class. Or it should anyway. How can kids learn when they are worried that a desk may come flying their way, or they may get put in a chokehold on the playground?

 

[ccgirl]

I might get flamed but this is one of the reasons I opted for a private school. They can be more selective with who is let in as a student and the disruptive students are not admitted. I feel my child has right to be in a safe environment and should not be forced to see that type of behavior and hear that language. Do I think she will never be objected to that; no. I am just going to control it as much as I possibly can.

 

[declansdad]

Imho, any two educators who can not handle a five year old without the police should lose their jobs. Just sayin'. I drove a school bus for seven years and the only uncontrollable people I ever saw were parents.

Maybe you should spend some time in a classroom before commenting on what they should be able to do.

 

[declansdad]

What a bunch of idiots! It doesn't say if the school tried calling the parents, but I'd assume they would have added that part if they did. I would be beyond pissed at the school if they called the police as oppose to me if my 5 year old threw a fit like that. That's insane. Where's the common sense. I see the police said they wouldn't be pressing charges...uhhh ya think Even if the school did call the parents and they couldn't get a hold of them, I still think the school went a little far, by calling the police about a 5 year old. They obviously managed to get him calmed down before the police got there, so it wasn't like the kid was in some crazy total rage with superpower capabilities. My mom's a special ed. teacher and she has to deal with behavior issues all the time; with kids that are a lot bigger/older than a 5 year old...and she's never had to call the police.

Sure because journalist always write complete stories that account for all the facts.

 

[Wishing on a star]

Yes, a child with learning disabilities does have a right to be educated without unnecessary restrictions....

But, once a child becomes physically aggressive (hits, kicks, throws, spits, etc...) ALL BETS ARE OFF.

There are absolutely NO laws that require a physically aggressive child to be allowed in a regular classroom. End of story.

The parents would be faced with a decision here... Have the child suspended... or placed in an alternative SPED program.
No child has the 'right' to disrupt, assault, etc... in a regular classroom.
The school has the right to remove any child from a classroom, including suspension and possible expulsion.
This includes children who are in Special Ed.

It just amazes me how very wrong some of the thoughts and understandings a few of these posts are.

Anything, I suppose, to justify and protect and remove any responsibility from the School System.

 

[Becky2005]

Agreed. There are 2 children (that I know of) that were adopted that are in my ds grade. They have both gone off multiple times. Not trying to be heartless or anything but MY child has a right to a safe environment and that trumps the violent childs right to be in that class. Or it should anyway. How can kids learn when they are worried that a desk may come flying their way, or they may get put in a chokehold on the playground?

That's what I am thinking -- so if my child gets hit by said desk flying their way and has to undergo some painful medical treatment and/or possibly have permanent issues -- I'm supposed to feel sorry for the kid that threw the desk because there were some underlying issues????? I don't think so. That child had no business being in with the 20+ other students that aren't throwing desks.

The more I read this the more thankful I am for our school. I don't think they would let this type of behavior stand or at least not very long. I know in 1st grade, there was one incident that I knew about and the child was removed quickly from the classroom. It has been the only one I have heard about and it didn't involve throwing anything but being unusually disruptive. I only heard about it via my son because it was THAT unusual, the teacher had to call the office for assistance for it. It wasn't but a week or two later that the child was not in the classroom anymore.

My child HAS gotten a severe injury at school and that was accidental situation but still is basically a thing that we have to be careful for from now on, I can't imagine how the situation would change if it was due to something 'on purpose'. He still is a bit paranoid for going to school that he will get hurt.

I'm going to assume the calling the police was a CYA thing because just like a car accident, no matter what the situation, you should call the police to get a report so it doesn't become a your word vs. their word or "my child would NEVER do such a thing, you are making it all up" and as others said they need documentation for children to be placed in alternative settings, so maybe this is something that HAS to be done to get the placement. It also would cover the child who was having the tantrum, for all we know another child got slightly injuried in the process & this is just to cover everyone involved in case a lawsuit comes back later on.

It could also be Standard Operating Procedure for them "anytime you have to put a child in a calm hold & remove them from the classroom, the police must be called to write up an incident report" and they just have never had to use it before on a young child so somehow the journalist got the story.

Just as "anytime the fire alarm goes off the fire department must show up even if you know it's burnt popcorn causing the problem" (yes, that actually happened at our school -- someone burnt popcorn & it set off the fire alarms and they had to wait until the fireman checked the entire school to give the OK to come back in).

 

[daisyduck123]

There are absolutely NO laws that require a physically aggressive child to be allowed in a regular classroom. End of story.

But there are procedures that have to be followed for getting a child permanently removed from a classroom.

Unless, you work at the schools & sit in on the meetings, you wouldn't believe the mountain of paperwork (and length of time it can take) to get such a child permanently removed from the general-ed. classroom.

 

[Wishing on a star]

Child injures another child...
Child suspended immediately for 3 days... (whether they are classified as special needs or not)
Child expelled upon review.
That easy.

It is up to the child's parents to pursue grievance if they want their child allowed back into that regular classroom.

 

[Cinderella94]

Child injures another child...
Child suspended immediately for 3 days... (whether they are classified as special needs or not)
Child expelled upon review.
That easy.

It is up to the child's parents to pursue grievance if they want their child allowed back into that regular classroom.

Except it's not at all "that easy".