Please Put Epcot Out Of Its Misery!

[Planogirl]

The reason no one can think of a good alternate name for "Future World" is because FW has lost its focus. It no longer knows what it is, so how can we be expected to know?

FW used to be all about learning. It was the world's first educational theme park. It cracks me up when people write, "Who wants to learn about X at Disney World?" or "No one wants to be taught lessons while on vacation!" Teaching lessons and learning used to be the whole point of FW.

Here are the FW attractions of the early 1990's and what we learned:

Spaceship Earth: we learned about how advancements in human communication have helped to create our world.

Innoventions: we learned all sorts of stuff on a wide variety of science and technology related subjects.

Horizons: we learned how technology might develop and what the future might be like.

Journey Into Imagination: we learned about the human imagination and how to use it.

The Living Seas: we learned about the ocean and undersea life and the future of ocean exploration by taking a trip to 'Sea Base Alpha'.

World of Motion: we learned about the history and achievements in transportation, from cavemen to the first automobiles.

The Land: we learned how we can use the land for our benefit, and how we might destroy it if we're not careful.

Universe of Energy: we learned about energy sources (without comedy), then took a ride through a primeval diorama with dinosaurs to learn about the origins of fossil fuels.

Wonders of Life: we learned about how the human body works, and sometimes doesn't work.

Back then every single attraction at FW was clearly all about education, teaching us about science and technology and the world around us.

Today? The two most popular attractions at FW today are Soarin’, in which we learn...umm...what parts of California look like from the air, and Test Track, in which we learn what it's like to ride in a car.

I, for one, wish Disney would stop being embarrassed by the idea of an educational theme park, and return FW to its roots.

A new name? How about "Discovery Land."

Yes! There was a time when we could be entertained and educated at Epcot. Plus Future World had great entertainment and Innoventions (Communicore) was truly innovative.

Thank goodness for World Showcase. They could stand to add a land or two but it's still a nice place.

 

[DisneyLaLa]

I love Epcot.

Try thinking of the name "Future World" in a different way.

Tomorrow's child
Charting a brand new way
For the Future World is
Born today!

Future World's exhibits looked into the history of mankind (for example: transportation in the World of Motion and communication in Spaceship Earth). They were meant to inspire visitors to continue to innovate and use technology to improve life.

The "future" part is up to us.

I would like to see more attractions dealing with mankind's past, present, and hopes for the future. A revamped Horizons would be a great addition.

 

[maxiesmom]

Back then every single attraction at FW was clearly all about education, teaching us about science and technology and the world around us.

Today? The two most popular attractions at FW today are Soarin’, in which we learn...umm...what parts of California look like from the air, and Test Track, in which we learn what it's like to ride in a car.

I, for one, wish Disney would stop being embarrassed by the idea of an educational theme park, and return FW to its roots.

A new name? How about "Discovery Land."

Dinsey is not embarrassed and still wants to teach and inform. They just tried to have an attraction that taught children about health and fitness. People were so offended by it that they shut it down.

 

[kbelle8995]

Oh Heck no. Never. I like Future World although it does need to be rehabbed. They are working on Test Track which is why you got those singers. Something needs to be done to the Wonders of Life building beside being a center for the Festivals. Bring Dreamfinder back. Never get rid of Figment. Epcot isn't Epcot without Figment.

Oh and Bring back the Lights of Winter. Future World can be saved.

 

[DisneyAbsolutely]

It's funny because Test Track is a pretty new ride. There are rides in Magic Kingdom that are much older that haven't been tweaked much at all. You don't need to change what already works. Test Track was one of the busiest rides I waited in line for last year. People obviously enjoy it. Is it totally worth the wait? Not really but I'm glad I went on it. It could be a good thing to improve this ride but I don't think it should change drastically. It's a very clever idea and I hope they keep the basics of it intact.

 

[d1gitman]

Nope, just the fact that Epcot is falling behind everything else. Epcot used to be a highlight. Now we blow through it on our way to World Showcase. We too, love Maelstrom and can waste hours at WS and still not see everything. It just seems like other parks, both in and out of WDW, are progressing and Epcot is still stuck in the 80's wearing its leg warmers listening to Duran Duran

wow, i guess it's all about perspective. epcot has gone from a 1/2 day park to a 2 day park for us during the past 8 yrs. The living seas has plenty to see and a cute dark ride for the little ones. I agree soarin' video quality should be improved but it's a great attraction that the whole family can do. Mission Space has become the #2 favorite for our DS6 & DS11. Test Track is our favorite hands down. Spaceship earth is another must do for us and the interactive stuff at the end of the ride make it even more fun. Innoventions always gives us a spot to cool off and different things to experience. We used to skip WS but now spend a day moseying thru and soaking up the sights, sounds and shopping. I agree that Ellen's, Imagination, Odyssey area all in need of completely new attractions.

I would say that Epcot is far from needing to be 'put out of it's misery'. While Fantasy Land is getting a fantastic expansion and upgrade, one could argue that Tomorrowland needs some major attention and cohesiveness. Or, that it's time to fit another marquis attraction in adventureland (Indy Jones or equivalent, anyone? DHS certainly has it's high and low points. AK still is in need of another land that is more Disney attraction like to mesh the animal concept with theme park, IMHO. Not sure that Avatarland would be the best venue as i just don't see that franchise having Harry Potter status in the long run.

Anyway, i would agree that all the parks have some things to address, some more major than others, but let's remember that not all attractions can be #1 hits. Besides, some people really love Ellens and Stitch, etc...

 

[Disneynut71]

My family enjoys EPCOT.

I am disappointed that Test Track will be closed when we are there...but that will just give us more time to do other things.

My DD will be able to ride Mission Space for the first time.

I happen to enjoy Ellen....

Soarin.....one of my favorites. We try to sit in the middle and as close to the front as possible. Love it!!

Living with the land...great

Love Figment

Captain EO...no desire to see

Innoventions....we spend at least an hour. My kids have fun there.

Spaceship Earth...classic EPCOT...

Coke...we love trying all the different kinds of soda...but miss the old igloo that was there. Great place to cool down and relax for a bit.

Nemo...Great when my DD was younger....they are not as excited as before but love looking at the seas

World Showcase...awesome...where we spend most of our day.

Does EPCOT need an update...yes..
compare it to IOA...not even in the same ballpark

I think that is why EPCOT has so many parks...so there is something for everyone.

 

[Brit_Jude]

I like Harry Potter and Figment and Ellen.

I kind of get what you're saying though. Epcot was my favorite park by far but it's really taken a nosedive for me. I still love Spaceship Earth and World Showcase but otherwise I could by pass it nowadays. We will just spend a day now where we used to go for about three days.

I agree - I am even considering if we should skip EPCOT during our trip over memorial day weekend. Or maybe just go for dinner one evening. We only usually ride Soarin', Test Track and Mission Space. Now without Test Track would out time and money be better spent going to MK twice.

 

[eliza61]

Actually, with regard to the screen, cleaning it is an interesting process. Soarin' uses an IMAX Dome (sometimes referred to as Omnimax), which I happen to have firsthand experience with. Unlike traditional movie screens, which are made of a flexible fabric, dome screens are built out of rigid, curved pieces, which fit together in a grid pattern. The cleaning process is actually done from the reverse, by way of vacuum suction. The pieces are perforated to allow this.

The screen cleaning process requires an expert to actually climb over the convex back of the screen structure with a backpack mounted vacuum. There are only two or three firms in the country that perform this service, and it is very costly.

IMAX recommends that dome screens be cleaned, I believe, every two years, but then most IMAX dome screens don't have thousands of feet dangled over them each day while artificial wind blows around the room. My guess would be that they are running a standard cleaning schedule without accounting for the unique circumstances of Soarin'.

They could not paint the screen, though, because they would close up the perforations and prevent future cleaning. I doubt there is anything wrong with the screen that could not be fixed with more frequent cleanings.

As for the film, if it is just dirty, there are cleaning pads that can be used to clean it. For a scenario like this, where the same print is being shown continuously, I would always run the film with the cleaning pads. This is something that is done as the film runs through the projector.

Also, a lot of the dirt that occurs in these cases actually comes from the projector. With the very high workload that Soarin' experiences, the projector should be thoroughly cleaned, I would say, at least four times per day. That is once either before opening or after closing (no need for both, since there are no showings in between), and three times spaced evenly throughout the day. They may not be doing this, as it would mean three 1/2 hour periods of downtime for the attraction each day. In any case, though, the projector should ideally be getting at least a quick wipe-down between showings, and there should be plenty of time for that during the loading/unloading time, even accounting for the time it takes to thread the projector for the show.

But, that just addresses dirty film. If the film is damaged, I would hope that they have a master copy. It may be in California, since they run the same show there. I would also think that they probably have multiple prints in Orlando. That would be necessary both to reduce wear and to have a backup in case one print is seriously damaged, because accidents DO happen. IMAX equipment is much more complex than standard film equipment, and simple mistakes can cause film to be ripped apart (the projector itself can actually "eat" the film in a way horrifyingly reminiscent the common VCR incident), and even for entire film prints to be thrown to the floor in a depressing pile, which takes HOURS to pick up, and leaves the film very dirty and in need of a series of cleanings.

And God forbid their projection booth should not be kept at the right temperature and humidity levels. This can actually result in a warping of the film, not in a way that skew the picture, but in a way that would cause the film to not stay flush with the projection rotor, thus causing some blur on the left and right sides of the picture. If that is happening, they need to have their entire booth modified to create the correct atmosphere, and then to replace all of their film prints. That would be a VERY costly endeavor.

Thanks for the explanation blaine but I gotta tell you IMO all this is are excuses.
yes keeping the film in good quality is expensive but we are not talking about some "fly by night" operation. We are talking about a major money making enterprise that owns movie companies, tv studios and a host of other entertainment operations.
All these issues that you mention should be known to the "professionals" at disney. Did they never think the film or projector would need cleaning? Did no one understand the care that goes into Imax theaters? Are they so inept that they can't do cost analysis on how much it would cost to run and maintain a venue?

Sorry the condition of the film for Soarin screams loud and clear...We could care less!! IMO

Why is it that even tiny museums with imax have better picture quality than Soarin? I live near the franklin institute in Philadelphia, took my kids to tons of IMAX shows there. recently saw a great one on water and the Colorado river. Never once in over 25 years have I seen a film that was "cracklin", black specks all over the picture" or sections with "spots" missing?

I love Disney but the problems I see throughout all lead to the same conclusion. Disney makes some thing new and exciting, puts out the inital outlay and then does nothing as far as quality or maintence.

I'm betting that the new fantasyland will suffer from the same lack of quality control. when it first opens it will be gorgeous, well stocked and pretty. Within 5 years it will be going to the dogs.

 

[Wish Upon A Star]

While Epcot is my favorite park, I have to say it is also due to the World Showcase.

For us that are "regulars" Future World seems old, lackluster and plain ole boring . . BUT, on the other hand, it seems like EVERY visit we make, there are always people that are visiting for the very first time . . .Soooo, to them, they probably think Future World is amazing, hence the long lines for Soarin' Test Track, etc . . .

There needs to be some updating for sure, but, even in this economy, WDW is doing extremely well, or so it seems.

 

[blainekyle]

Thanks for the explanation blaine but I gotta tell you IMO all this is are excuses.
yes keeping the film in good quality is expensive but we are not talking about some "fly by night" operation. We are talking about a major money making enterprise that owns movie companies, tv studios and a host of other entertainment operations.
All these issues that you mention should be known to the "professionals" at disney. Did they never think the film or projector would need cleaning? Did no one understand the care that goes into Imax theaters? Are they so inept that they can't do cost analysis on how much it would cost to run and maintain a venue?

Sorry the condition of the film for Soarin screams loud and clear...We could care less!! IMO

Why is it that even tiny museums with imax have better picture quality than Soarin? I live near the franklin institute in Philadelphia, took my kids to tons of IMAX shows there. recently saw a great one on water and the Colorado river. Never once in over 25 years have I seen a film that was "cracklin", black specks all over the picture" or sections with "spots" missing?

I love Disney but the problems I see throughout all lead to the same conclusion. Disney makes some thing new and exciting, puts out the inital outlay and then does nothing as far as quality or maintence.

I'm betting that the new fantasyland will suffer from the same lack of quality control. when it first opens it will be gorgeous, well stocked and pretty. Within 5 years it will be going to the dogs.

I'm not really trying to make excuses for Disney. I just wanted to share some insight into how it works. I myself worked at one of those small museums, which is where I get my expertise. And yes, we did work very hard to put out a quality presentation every time.

I would think Disney would have staff that know how to handle an IMAX system, given that the Captain EO attraction is also an IMAX film. But then, I'm not sure those prints (or the ones for Honey I Shrunk the Audience) were really that well maintained either.

I noticed you said there were sections missing. That is very disconcerting, and I didn't know that. That means that at some point, either the projector seized and tore the film, or there was what is referred to as a "brain wrap," which is a minor problem in 35MM but very serious in IMAX. The responsible thing to do there is to order a replacement real, not to just patch it up, leaving spots missing.

 

[WDSearcher]

Anyone know what WDW's profit was last year compared to Universal's? Just wondering if Universal puts more of it's profit into improving their parks, where disney just gives their's to the stockholders?

Kind of an unfair comparison, though. Universal has two parks in Orlando; Disney has four (and that's if you don't count the water parks, of which Universal has none and Disney has two). Disney has more resorts, golf courses, a campground, recreational areas ... Universal has none of that. Universal has bigger rides, but fewer attractions. Hardly any entertainment and way fewer characters. So they don't need to assign as many maintenance dollars for things like that. I guess you could go by percentages and base it on something specific, like rides & attractions, but even then ... the Universal company as a whole has never spent the kind of money on the theme park part of the business that Disney has. Not sure you'd be able to prove anything either way.

 

[tjevans]

Close Mission Space. This ride has had problems from soft opening. Unless you go for the super tame Green Team, you're gonna have a headache for the rest of the day. Make Horizons 2.0 or something like that.

I'm always amazed at the number of people who get motion sick/disoriented on M:S. My 6-year old and I love it. As a matter of fact, it and Big Thunder Mountain were the only rides she wanted to do again and again.

Me, I'm the person that does everything they tell you not to do: I'm looking around in the "capsule," moving my head from side to side, just to try to feel a little dizzy.

 

[Bonniec]

Nope, just the fact that Epcot is falling behind everything else. Epcot used to be a highlight. Now we blow through it on our way to World Showcase. We too, love Maelstrom and can waste hours at WS and still not see everything. It just seems like other parks, both in and out of WDW, are progressing and Epcot is still stuck in the 80's wearing its leg warmers listening to Duran Duran

Hey now, I LIKE Duran Duran!

This thread cracks me up. Epcot is still one of my favorite places but the OP is right on pretty much all accounts.

Soarin? Love it. But would never wait an hour for it though. And yeah, what is up with the screen? It's SO old and looks terrible.

And yeah, my 6 year old's favorite ride is the Land *sigh*

 

[tjevans]

As much as I like the rides in FW, it definitely needs a new mission. I loved it when it first opened, mainly because every ride it seemed had interactive features following the actual ride. EPCOT Center, as it was then named, was like the world's biggest interactive museum, and I loved it.

But then again, I was always the science geek in school. Most people back then thought it was too educational and boring, while the same "boring" parts were my favorite.

 

[Tropical Wilds]

I'm wondering if everybody goes to the same EPCOT I do... LoL!

EPCOT is our favorite park, the one we spend about 75% of our time in and we both agree that over the last several years, EPCOT is better then it has ever been. Every time we walk through the turnstile, we are on virtual sensory overload trying to figure out where to go first.

Our favorites are, of course, Soarin, but also TT, Club Cool, Fountain View, Captain Eo (WHOOOOOOOOT!!! LONG LIVE EO!!!! LoL!), Living with the Land, The Seas with Nemo, Mouseworks (or whatever that shopping area is), Spaceship Earth, Grand Fiesta, the Mexico Pavilion, the China Pavilion, the Japan Pavilion (our home away from home), and dining in Mexico (San Angel), Japan (Teppan Edo), England (Rose and Crown), and Canada (Le Cellier). The special events there, like F&W, I think are much more fun then any other park and we love Illuminations, even if it means sitting through a message about world peace or togetherness or trees or something non-fireworks related.

The only real snores for us are Figmant, Ellen's thing, and Mission Space. I think the dragon is obnoxious, Ellen a waste of time (though the air conditioning is nice), and Mission Space just isn't my thing.

I do wish they'd do something with the outpost though... It seems like such wasted space that, over the years, you'd think they'd find a better use for.

For us, it's Hollywood Studios that is the "lost" park. We finish there in about 4 hours. 6 on a Fantasmic day.

 

[jpolak]

The Grey Goose Slushy makes Epcot worth the trip!

 

[Tropical Wilds]

Thanks for the explanation blaine but I gotta tell you IMO all this is are excuses.

They seemed like pretty good reasons to me, actually...

yes keeping the film in good quality is expensive but we are not talking about some "fly by night" operation. We are talking about a major money making enterprise that owns movie companies, tv studios and a host of other entertainment operations.

Yes, but the cost of cleaning 2 theaters on a basis that keeps the picture "perfect" when every 6 minutes, 174 people cycle through, in an environment that has special effects and doors that open and close to the outside frequently would most likely be cost-prohibitive to even Disney. And considering the line still is still one of the top 5 longest in all of WDW, people show they're still willing to do it in the condition it's in.

All these issues that you mention should be known to the "professionals" at disney. Did they never think the film or projector would need cleaning? Did no one understand the care that goes into Imax theaters? Are they so inept that they can't do cost analysis on how much it would cost to run and maintain a venue?

Sorry the condition of the film for Soarin screams loud and clear...We could care less!! IMO

Why is it that even tiny museums with imax have better picture quality than Soarin? I live near the franklin institute in Philadelphia, took my kids to tons of IMAX shows there. recently saw a great one on water and the Colorado river. Never once in over 25 years have I seen a film that was "cracklin", black specks all over the picture" or sections with "spots" missing?

Here's guessing that the tiny Imax museums don't shuttle through 1,044 people an hour 365 days a year, with no pauses between shows, for 8-12 hours a day, in a theater that also contains liquid special effects.

As is witnessed by the closure of TT, if a major ride is closed for refurb, people bombard Disney with emails about how their planning is poor, the closure ruined their trips, etc etc. Doing regular closures of Soarin would anger more people than not.

I love Disney but the problems I see throughout all lead to the same conclusion. Disney makes some thing new and exciting, puts out the inital outlay and then does nothing as far as quality or maintence.

I'm betting that the new fantasyland will suffer from the same lack of quality control. when it first opens it will be gorgeous, well stocked and pretty. Within 5 years it will be going to the dogs.

How big is all of WDW? How many people use it every day? Disney has a ton of properties, facilities, and guest areas. It's simply impossible to expect that every space will be kept in brand-new condition, or will be refurbed with a regularity that will keep it looking like it just opened. Especially considering that even non-guest areas (such as cast-only areas) need attention as well. Heck, even the land itself that the guests don't use persay, but still see, need to be maintained. Considering the volume of people, the time the park is open, factors like weather damage, wear-and-tear, and even simple things like technology updates that occur all over the park, Disney still has a gorgeous park that offers a lot of really cutting-edge entertainment. WDW still looks better than your average amusement park, Six Flags, or even Universal (though admittedly HP's park has that Disney attention-to-detail that is lacking at the rest of the resort).

In short, with all the upkeep that goes into a Disney park, here's guessing keeping the film immaculate at Soarin is not the biggest priority around WDW.

 

[disneychic2]

That is very true. People are constantly complaining about the state of the parks, how Disney needs to spend money freshening up the parks. And when they do, all you see is complaining about it being done during "my" trip. How dare they close Big Thunder Mountain/Test Track/Snow White? How dare they paint and put up tarps over the building fronts? Don't they know they are ruining "my" vacation pictures?

Disney is darned if they do, darned if they don't.

ITA! Very well said!

Perhaps OP was mixing it up with Mission to Mars? I'll give 'em the benefit of the doubt.

Anyway, I LIKE M:S -- it's the closest most people will ever come to anything like astronaut training.

Never thrown up once yet. But there's still time...

I also love Mission Space and have never even come close to hurling! One trip the more intense side was down and we did the alternate side and thought it was pleasant but pretty much a yawn.

Kind of an unfair comparison, though. Universal has two parks in Orlando; Disney has four (and that's if you don't count the water parks, of which Universal has none and Disney has two). Disney has more resorts, golf courses, a campground, recreational areas ... Universal has none of that. Universal has bigger rides, but fewer attractions. Hardly any entertainment and way fewer characters. So they don't need to assign as many maintenance dollars for things like that. I guess you could go by percentages and base it on something specific, like rides & attractions, but even then ... the Universal company as a whole has never spent the kind of money on the theme park part of the business that Disney has. Not sure you'd be able to prove anything either way.

I absolutely agree! Thanks for saying it better than I ever could have!

How big is all of WDW? How many people use it every day? Disney has a ton of properties, facilities, and guest areas. It's simply impossible to expect that every space will be kept in brand-new condition, or will be refurbed with a regularity that will keep it looking like it just opened. Especially considering that even non-guest areas (such as cast-only areas) need attention as well. Heck, even the land itself that the guests don't use persay, but still see, need to be maintained. Considering the volume of people, the time the park is open, factors like weather damage, wear-and-tear, and even simple things like technology updates that occur all over the park, Disney still has a gorgeous park that offers a lot of really cutting-edge entertainment. WDW still looks better than your average amusement park, Six Flags, or even Universal (though admittedly HP's park has that Disney attention-to-detail that is lacking at the rest of the resort).

In short, with all the upkeep that goes into a Disney park, here's guessing keeping the film immaculate at Soarin is not the biggest priority around WDW.

Seems as though everyone else is saying what I want to say, but much better! Thanks!

 

[Minnesota!]

Watching that musical performance outside of Test Track was the last straw. Epcot needs help, STAT! The evidence is overwhelming:

- Soarin' is still good, but it's a shell of what it was. A grainy film on a dirty screen does not compel me to stand in line for an hour. In this age of HD and digital, there's no excuse why this film has to look like garbage

- The whole Test Track refurb fiasco, punctuated by the hastily thrown-together Test Track singers - somewhere Up With People is laughing hysterically

- Mission Space, while still cool, makes people vomit

- Ellen's Energy Adventure is now the best place to catch an air-conditioned nap in all of WDW

- Habit Heroes shut down in less than a month - wait, you mean mocking kids isn't what we do here at WDW?

- The Imagination Pavilion is a complete waste of space

- Body Wars Pavilion is still empty

- When you ask you kids what they enjoyed most at Future World, and they say Living With the Land, it's time to re-evaluate things


The ONLY thing that has been consistently interesting and worth-while at Epcot over the last few years has been the World Showcase. When your park has the name "Future World", you shouldn't ever be outdated.

Either Epcot needs a complete makeover, or it should be plowed under and become a giant World Showcase. Add in some countries like Russia, Australia, Brazil, etc. That's at least more interesting than watching Alex Trebek banter with Bill Nye the Science Guy.


Epcot - time to step up. Universal has Harry Potter. You have Figment and the Test Track Five. Think about it

I could NOT agree more. FW in Epcot has become a joke. Almost like wandering around an abandoned theme park and seeing "what is left". Now, Living with the Land IS my favorite ride in all of WDW...so I am cool with that...but FW is ridiculous!!! And it's harder then ever to throw my money at the Disney Company. I am doing it this last time in August because it's important to my family...but I will be putting my foot down after this.