please ignore

[ElizaB39]

I have really loved reading and digesting all of the financial advice. I think I need to get Dave's book. I do have other financial books that have really helped me and dh get educated (a couple by Suze Orman, and The Last Investmet Guide You Will Ever Need by Andrew Tobias). A good financial planner has helped as well. DH is self employed and I work for him so all of our income is from one basket (so to speak). The peace that comes with having a good financial position is wonderful.

Thank you everyone for so much good information. I will use much of it.

 

[StephMK]

This is a great thread, and I have learned a lot from it. We are not in that position but it has made my "personal financial alarm" (love that term Nik's mom!) go off a little louder. It's seeing the path we could be on if we allow certain budget issues get out of control. It should certainly be a warning to some not to allow all the convenient debt consolidation options to replace actually paying OFF the debt.

It's hard for me to fathom being that far behind as we make far, far less income yet still have several areas that we could cut back if needed, despite a large mortgage in an expensive area. That said, we have been in debt twice before so I can sympathize with how easy it is to ignore the problem & let it get worse.

I guess my question to OP is - you've gotten some good advice - what do you plan to change this time around to get out of the hole? Sounds like a deep hole and I wish you the best of luck. It just seems like you've agreed w/things, gave thanks for some encouragement but I don't see any concrete steps you're taking to help the actual situation. If you are, please post, it would be nice to see ideas translate into action & progress to a better outcome.

 

[welovedis]

Great posts here, glad to see that many were helped and found the info interesting, even if the OP doesn't seem to thanking most for their insight & help.

One thing I want to say, some people have mentioned bankruptcy, but I don't think that is a reasonable option or a moral one in this case, honestly. I feel bankruptcy is for someone who has no other option, the OP, from her own information on this thread and the others, did and does have options, she is choosing not to use them and that is not a good basis for bankruptcy. I feel that people need to learn something by going thru that process so they won't end up in that situation again & again.

Best of the luck to the OP and the others here who are in debt and worried about their financial situation. Having BTDT I can relate but can also say that once you set your mind to it, you can achieve whatever you like. We've paid back a huge chunk of unsecured debt in about 3 years time (over 60K) and we'll never go back there again.

 

[dvcgirl]

Great posts here, glad to see that many were helped and found the info interesting, even if the OP doesn't seem to thanking most for their insight & help.

One thing I want to say, some people have mentioned bankruptcy, but I don't think that is a reasonable option or a moral one in this case, honestly. I feel bankruptcy is for someone who has no other option, the OP, from her own information on this thread and the others, did and does have options, she is choosing not to use them and that is not a good basis for bankruptcy. I feel that people need to learn something by going thru that process so they won't end up in that situation again & again.

Best of the luck to the OP and the others here who are in debt and worried about their financial situation. Having BTDT I can relate but can also say that once you set your mind to it, you can achieve whatever you like. We've paid back a huge chunk of unsecured debt in about 3 years time (over 60K) and we'll never go back there again.

I agree, bankruptcy shouldn't be a consideration for the OP just yet. Not until they at least make a serious effort to pull themselves out of the mess that they're in. From what I've read, only minor half-hearted attempts have been attempted to date. And bankruptcy won't even fix the problems that PG is having....not until there's an understanding of how they got there in the first place. And yes, PG still has plenty of places to cut back debt substantially.

 

[ForTheLoveofDisney]

Even though we still have money in savings and aren't on the verge of financial ruin, an unexpected expense sets off my internal financial alarm because we are on a tight buget. I have decided to return to work because it will make life easier financially. It was a hard choice, but I have to listen to that internal financial alarm. I think a lot of people don't have that internal alarm. They don't realize they are in trouble until it's too late.

We affectionately refer to this as my "Security Gland". When the finances get tight due to the unexpected life emergency I say, "I can feel my 'Security Gland' tightening up!" and it doesn't ease up until we're back on track. Having a good emergency fund set up, however, helps combat tight Security Gland syndrome .

 

[RoyalCanadian]

Well, the time wasn't completely wasted,

You bring up a good point mrsbornkuntry -- it would seem that many people have found this thread to be invaluable to their own financial planning. Sadly, the OP appears to be the only person participating in this thread who has no intention of taking the wealth of sound financial advice to heart.

Frankly, I can't imagine grossing approximately $10,000 US/month and having nothing to show for it. My family nets approx. $3,300 CDN/month and we live like royalty when I compare our lifestyle to others.

 

[bdcp]

Bankruptcy is not the way to go. A great number of people who declare it once will do it again because they don't learn anything in the process of how to deal with money. We now have great incomes and two kids in college, but at one time we lived on my DH's salary while I was home with the boys. I had a budget for everything and we didn't have cable tv (used an antenna and couldn't receive every channel, so what!) We bought only what we needed and saved up for things we wanted. We took vacations only when we could afford them. It is all about choices. Private school is a luxury. My boys went through public school and they both did great and are in college now. I see plenty of good suggestions and ways to cut costs. I think WDW vacations are not necessities either and the OP needs to get a grip on reality. Debt is not going to just go away because she wants it to nor is there a magic bullet.

BTW, I live in an area where six figure incomes are the norm and housing costs (average home is close to 600K) and other expenses are very high, so income cannot be looked at without the demographics involved. That said, we bought less house than we qualified for so we had cushion. I'd bet the OP didnt' do that.

 

[dvcgirl]

Bankruptcy is not the way to go. A great number of people who declare it once will do it again because they don't learn anything in the process of how to deal with money. We now have great incomes and two kids in college, but at one time we lived on my DH's salary while I was home with the boys. I had a budget for everything and we didn't have cable tv (used an antenna and couldn't receive every channel, so what!) We bought only what we needed and saved up for things we wanted. We took vacations only when we could afford them. It is all about choices. Private school is a luxury. My boys went through public school and they both did great and are in college now. I see plenty of good suggestions and ways to cut costs. I think WDW vacations are not necessities either and the OP needs to get a grip on reality. Debt is not going to just go away because she wants it to nor is there a magic bullet.

BTW, I live in an area where six figure incomes are the norm and housing costs (average home is close to 600K) and other expenses are very high, so income cannot be looked at without the demographics involved. That said, we bought less house than we qualified for so we had cushion. I'd bet the OP didnt' do that.

You hit the nail on the head....it's all about choices. Poor people don't choose to be poor. Poor people make poor choices.

 

[etwinchester]

I would love to post a thread "Going to Disney - DEBT FREE" as well. I'll add that to my other slogans. Today I decided to print out the Quicken Debt-Free plan that it made up for me. Whenever I pay bills, I'm going to cross them off on the plan sheet. I'll love to see all the marks and months get small. Quicken is truly to the best if you want to see where your spending your money. It truly SHOWED ME THE LIGHT...

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I agree, bankruptcy shouldn't be a consideration for the OP just yet. Not until they at least make a serious effort to pull themselves out of the mess that they're in. From what I've read, only minor half-hearted attempts have been attempted to date. And bankruptcy won't even fix the problems that PG is having....not until there's an understanding of how they got there in the first place. And yes, PG still has plenty of places to cut back debt substantially.

True--she shouldn't use it as an out...but if she keeps it up, she just won't hvae a choice.

Ignore the hard core--but necessary and true--advice given...ultimately, there won't be an option.

 

[ForTheLoveofDisney]

I would love to post a thread "Going to Disney - DEBT FREE" as well. I'll add that to my other slogans. Today I decided to print out the Quicken Debt-Free plan that it made up for me. Whenever I pay bills, I'm going to cross them off on the plan sheet. I'll love to see all the marks and months get small. Quicken is truly to the best if you want to see where your spending your money. It truly SHOWED ME THE LIGHT...

Is Quicken easier to use than Microsoft Money? I've been wanting to set something up on my computer so that I can keep vigilant watch on what we're spending, track exactly what it takes to run this household in a month and be able to see charts and the like. I spent all afternoon trying to figure that program out but for me it was NOT user friendly. The reason I was trying to make Money work for me is because it came on my computer and I wouldn't have to buy anything. I've tried looking at the tutorials and searching the help contents. I'd say unless someone was able to walk me through set up and give me a crash course on maintaining I'll not be able to use it.

 

[Nik's Mom]

We affectionately refer to this as my "Security Gland". When the finances get tight due to the unexpected life emergency I say, "I can feel my 'Security Gland' tightening up!" and it doesn't ease up until we're back on track. Having a good emergency fund set up, however, helps combat tight Security Gland syndrome .

Security gland, I like that! You know, to me, no matter how much I save, I'm always a little worried with only one of us working. You know, what if dh gets sick, laid off, etc. And my Dad's death really opened my eyes to the fact that Medicare and supplemental insurance for senior citizens just isn't enough when someone is terminally ill . It's really sad, especially when my parents worked most of their lives, always paid their bills, etc. Anyway, this has made me realize that I need to go back to work to prepare for retirement and the expenses of old age. I don't ever want to put my children through the stress of coming up with money to care for me when I am old.
You know, as I watered my grass in my middle income neighborhood, I noticed something. Lots of Cadilac Escalades and Lincoln Navigators were parked on my very average street. When I was a kid, only rich people drove Cadilacs and Lincolns. Now, in a middle class neighborhood, the street is full of them. Can these people really afford that car, or are they over their heads in debt?
Thanks for this thread! I've learned a lot!

 

[dvcgirl]

Security gland, I like that! You know, to me, no matter how much I save, I'm always a little worried with only one of us working. You know, what if dh gets sick, laid off, etc. And my Dad's death really opened my eyes to the fact that Medicare and supplemental insurance for senior citizens just isn't enough when someone is terminally ill . It's really sad, especially when my parents worked most of their lives, always paid their bills, etc. Anyway, this has made me realize that I need to go back to work to prepare for retirement and the expenses of old age. I don't ever want to put my children through the stress of coming up with money to care for me when I am old.
You know, as I watered my grass in my middle income neighborhood, I noticed something. Lots of Cadilac Escalades and Lincoln Navigators were parked on my very average street. When I was a kid, only rich people drove Cadilacs and Lincolns. Now, in a middle class neighborhood, the street is full of them. Can these people really afford that car, or are they over their heads in debt?
Thanks for this thread! I've learned a lot!

I was just talking about this in another thread Nik's Mom....how many BMWs you see on the road these days. But it's also mercedes, lexus, caddys...you name it. They're a dime a dozen these days. And I always marvel at the 20 somethings I see driving around Orlando in these 40K and up vehicles. I'd be willing to bet a million dollars that they're almost all leased. Many by people living paycheck to paycheck living in apartments. It's part of the whole entitlement mentality out there today.

And don't get me wrong, there are plenty of people out in the world making serious cash, but not enough to justify the amount of high end cars on the road......

 

[ElizaB39]

Is Quicken easier to use than Microsoft Money? I've been wanting to set something up on my computer so that I can keep vigilant watch on what we're spending, track exactly what it takes to run this household in a month and be able to see charts and the like. I spent all afternoon trying to figure that program out but for me it was NOT user friendly. The reason I was trying to make Money work for me is because it came on my computer and I wouldn't have to buy anything. I've tried looking at the tutorials and searching the help contents. I'd say unless someone was able to walk me through set up and give me a crash course on maintaining I'll not be able to use it.

Hmmm, I have set up at least three different accounts on Money with no problems. The monthly income and expense reports are great. I use these accounts for DH's businesses, two separate accounts, and one for a church group for which I am the Treasurer. I guess I should be using this for home accounts too! That will be my summer goal, get our household set up on Money.

Probably the hardest thing for me to do was to figure out how to enter the starting balance. Then, you just start entering checks and who they are payable to. Also, you can set up repeating bills. I just played around with it and tried different things until it worked. I compared what the Money reports said against what I had calculated by hand.

 

[ElizaB39]

I was just talking about this in another thread Nik's Mom....how many BMWs you see on the road these days. But it's also mercedes, lexus, caddys...you name it. They're a dime a dozen these days. And I always marvel at the 20 somethings I see driving around Orlando in these 40K and up vehicles. I'd be willing to bet a million dollars that they're almost all leased. Many by people living paycheck to paycheck living in apartments. It's part of the whole entitlement mentality out there today.

And don't get me wrong, there are plenty of people out in the world making serious cash, but not enough to justify the amount of high end cars on the road......

I know, it is so crazy. Its all SUVs SUVs SUVS where I live. And, we have one too! DH gets a new vehicle every three years (work related, he is in sales and travels). To me, a car is just to get from point A to point B. I have owned three cars in my entire life and I am 40! One right out of college for 10 years, one for 7 years and now my current vehicle. Now, I want to trade it in and get a hybrid to cut fuel costs. Always trying to figure out ways to save. I guess it is my good midwestern upbrining...

 

[MrsPete]

You know, as I watered my grass in my middle income neighborhood, I noticed something. Lots of Cadilac Escalades and Lincoln Navigators were parked on my very average street. When I was a kid, only rich people drove Cadilacs and Lincolns. Now, in a middle class neighborhood, the street is full of them. Can these people really afford that car, or are they over their heads in debt?

Have you heard the statistic about the average family being TWO PAYCHECKS away from living on the streets? If the average family missed two weeks' pay, they'd be unable to make this month's bills.

I would be afraid to live that way.

 

[Nik's Mom]

No, MrsPete. I've never heard of that saying, but it is probably so true!
Everyone wants to keep up with the Jones these days! I know when we bought our SUV ( , o.k it was 2 years ago, and it was at employee discount from my dh) we didn't buy leather seats. People made comments about why no leather! Well, because that is a luxury we don't need!
I have a huge problem with my in-laws. It's all about money with them. We buy our kids something, then they have to buy their kids something, but for more money. Example, we bought our kids one of those wooden swing sets 2 years ago. We bought it at Walmart for $400 with a 10 year waranty. Well, my sister in law couldn't stand that her kids didn't have what our kids had. So she went a bought a $3500 set from some fancy store, and it only had a 1 year warranty! It's very sad. Her youngest son is only 4 and he already tells my kids things like "I have brown shoes, black shoes, blue shoes, red shoes and white shoes. What do you have." Well, I will answer blue and brown, but that's it. Then he'll say, "well I have more shoes than them." So you can see the damage that this does to kids. Why on earth does a 4 year old need 5 pairs of tennis shoes?

 

[bdcp]

Actually, some people are only a few paychecks away from bankruptcy, not from being on the street. The fact is when people spend and spend and then expect to be bailed out because they made terrible choices, I have an issue with bankruptcy. Remember, when someone declares bankruptcy, we all pay for it. Debt is not always forgiven, just in some cases, reduced. I don't think too many judges would look too favorably on someone with a good income and credit card bills for no reason other than they like to spend money. If their debt is that high, sell the house, buy smaller, sell the car, buy less expensive cars, no private school and no vacations til they get a handle on it. I moved from an average home to what is considered an executive home and the funny thing is there were more expensive and newer cars in my avg neighborhood. Yes, some people here in our new neighborhood have BMW's and Mercedes, which they can afford, but there are plenty of minivans and older cars. We have one neighbor who drives an older beat up sedan, but it still runs well. They're probably millionaires. And the income here is higher than the old neighborhood. The two developments are only 3 miles apart, but these are new and larger. Did you know that the neighbor driving old cars is more likely to be a millionaire than they guy driving the brand new Lexus or Mercedes? People who are frugal and invest will end up with plenty of money to retire and usually early.

 

[ducklite]

I agree totally about the bankruptcy. I spent about eight months as a bankruptcy paralegal, and it made me sick the number of people who just spent themselves into BK. People with $150 a month cable bills with every pay channel, who had taken exotic and/or vacations, who drove leased cars with very high payments.

Of course there is an exception, and I can remember a couple of heartbreaking situations, a couple who's daughter had a rare cancer and required extensive medical care that their insurance didn't cover. They had NO debt other than their mortgage (which was never paid late) and the medical bills, and a loan he had taken on his 401K to try to cover some of the bills in the beginning. That actually makes a good case for a health care system like Canada has...but I digress.

But I aso remember this lady who drove a luxury car that was leased with a huge monthly payment, had this huge monthly cable bill, shopped in all the finest stores, and was on her third chapter 13. She had a lower income than I did at the time, and DH and I were barely scraping by--our idea of a treat was going to Friendly's to split a sundae while our son was at religious ed! She needed to get real, and I think that is the type of person that the new BK legislation is all about, stopping people from abusing the system.

Anne

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

On that vehicle note--I would LOVE an SUV. But my line of thinking has changed over the years. I need comfy passenger space for up to 4 kids (we only have 2, but want more). And while for the time being pickups could meet that need, I'd have to replace it.

Why an SUV instead of a mini-van? It's all about the towing capacity. If they'd start loading Mini-vans with a V-8 or in anyway modify the engine so it can tow 5000 pounds...I'd be more than happy to settle on that.

But alas--a $25,000 vehicle was upwards of about a $500 car payment. Just couldn't do it. (Actually it was $22000 and it was cheaper than same vehicle 2 years used).

I'd sell my house before declaring bankruptcy--and even if the bubble bursts on the market....we'd still make enough to pay off all debts in the sale and then would just move into an apartment.


Millionaire next Door (as I suggested earlier) is really good and I think I'll read it again .