Please explain to me why eliminating APs make business sense for Disney? And the business case for Floridians to have a discounted AP?

[corpcomp]

I talked to MS today because my AP expires in November and wanted to know the current options. Yes I can renew and I also asked about the Florida passes because I just bought a place in Orlando and will get a FL drivers license around Feb. She said maybe I can get the Pixie pass but she is not sure if they will allow new purchases of that at that point. Not very helpful. So I likely will renew for one more year as if we have family down, really don't want to not be able to go into the parks with them on a weekend.

Disney just seems to be alienating their most loyal guests but I understand that if you are visiting several times during the year you are not going to spend much as someone who is a first time visitor and wowed by all the "stuff" for sale. We rarely buy stuff anymore except T Shirts or something that might really WOW me, like a gold plated Monorail train.

 

[Ms Bibbidi]

​

May have been true in the past. AFAIK, it is not true now. I have looked, but am unable to find any legitimate source supporting this statement..

You have not looked in the right place. It is not possible to check the legitimate source documents either online or from out of state. These are volumes and many boxes of
local government land use development documents, staff reports, hearing transcripts and agreements or conditions of land use permit approval going back to circa 1965.
These are not found in any online blog, newspaper or other source you could have checked from out of state. Those papers are also the most likely source for information on whether or not it is still in full force and effect.

It is a legitimate possibility because of the laws and regulations governing land use development permitting and environmental compliance; including in Florida.

So, it is a possibility Disney has an obligation to locals. However it is also a possibility Disney just continues to find there is an economic advantage to Disney to continue to offer annual passes to Florida residents, even if there is no legal obligation connected to environmental permitting.

 

[Ms Bibbidi]

For me I think there’s a straightforward economic reason to explain why no ap outside of Florida while still offering ap to Florida. I think for most days disney is not actually hitting capacity limits but are hitting limits they set once staffing is set to better distribute guests across parks. I come to this conclusion from general impression that “sold out” days seem to vary widely in their effective crowd size (or at least did when I tracked ~4months ago). From this assessment, I don’t believe limiting ap sales has anything to do with blocking ap for more expensive day ticket guests to come in their place since they have capacity to accommodate both.

Instead what I think is happening is Disney has assessed some ap holders will buy multiple sets of tickets since they can’t get ap and this extra revenue offsets any potential revenue lost from guests who travel less since no ap. Since Florida locals visit Disney differently the same math does not hold up for them and Disney has assessed selling the pixie passes generates the most money from that crowd. It also has the benefit of only allowing them to come the lowest crowd days further diminishing any capacity concerns for days where it actually would matter.

An even more straightforward explanation as to why Disney stopped selling APs for now is because they limited the number they distributed. — Sold out. Put a cap on the number they sold.

Why do I think this? Because Mr. Bob Chapek, CEO, directly said so. So no further need to analyze that one.

 

[keishashadow]

I think is 30 day ticket would be awesome and more than enough for most people, but those that have over a thousand points and do a lot of 4 day trips for different seasons or events, they need the days.

/\ this! Not quite in that lofty company tho.

My sympathies to those members who are currently without APs Seems crass to have them in hand and still whine about the possibility of change. However, I do consider the perk a need, not a want In connection with fully enjoying DVC ownership.

Just can’t imagine this access not offered in some fashion going forward once the travel industry normalizes & demand declines.

 

[corpcomp]

An even more straightforward explanation as to why Disney stopped selling APs for now is because they limited the number they distributed. — Sold out. Put a cap on the number they sold.

Why do I think this? Because Mr. Bob Chapek, CEO, directly said so. So no further need to analyze that one.

It’s all about the money. Considering how the stock has dropped, all the restrictions, and the politics, he is doing a terrible job. can’t believe they extended his contract IMHO and I own a significant amount of Disney stock.

 

[Ms Bibbidi]

It’s all about the money. Considering how the stock has dropped, all the restrictions, and the politics, he is doing a terrible job. can’t believe they extended his contract IMHO and I own a significant amount of Disney stock.

My condolences.

 

[greeneyedchick]

I've read many of the threads on here about APs. My family has never had them because we're any every other year kind of WDW family. I've always thought I'd need to go at least twice just to break even on park tickets vs. APs, but I feel like we spend a fortune while we're there. Disney certainly makes more off of us in food and drink than they do with out park tickets. It seems to me, even as a resale DVC member, they'd want me coming more often. I just don't get why they stoppped selling them?

Second question, if they're trying to maximize profits per guest per visit (seems to be their stated goal), then why continue to offer Florida resident passes? These seem like the group most likely able to spend the least per visit. (I know FL residents spend a lot, please don't be offended and I'm not asking for a discussion on this point which is why I said "able to spend less")

It seems to me the most profitable move would be to offer the AP at a price point that brought out-of-state travelers back two or three times per year for several days at a time compared to Floridians' weekly or monthly visits for a few hours?

What am I missing here?

I believe there was a law/ agreement put into place when Orange County allowed Walt to create the Reedy Creek District, that Disney provide discounted passes to Florida residents as part of the deal.

 

[Maistre Gracey]

I think they should only offer an AP to DVC members. Most of them do more than one trip per year and also might increase DVC sales. Without the AP option for DVC members some probably have sold or will be.

So the folks who stay at the Yacht Club twice a year should not be able to purchase APs ?
In order to want an AP, you are probably coming more than once a year.

 

[Ms Bibbidi]

I believe there was a law/ agreement put into place when Orange County allowed Walt to create the Reedy Creek District, that Disney provide discounted passes to Florida residents as part of the deal.

It is possible, but no one has examined the records to see if this is true. If it is true it would be in the public records.

I also do not think it had anything to do with the creation of Reedy Creek Improvement District.

Also, the laws and regulations were already in place. They were the environmental laws, not the special district formation laws.

If people reading this want to know about this issue in general, search the internet for environmental social impacts or environmental social mitigation measures. To find out if Disney had a condition of permit approval, you would have to go back and search mountains of archaic local records that are not online.

 

[WilsonFlyer]

We live in Florida and the Florida APs were good when the break even mark was 8 days and I believe the last time I checked it was something like 14+ days and the latest has a lot more black out dates. For people that live in Central FL that would work, but for families like mine that are a 7 hour drive away, not so much. Our past trips, we always stayed onsite and inside the bubble, so that included eating all meals at a Disney QS or TS. We always let our DDs buy a souvenir or 2 on every trip. We had APs for 16 straight years and gave them up a couple of years ago, because it was no longer worth it to us.

Just personal curiosity. 7 hours? Extreme western pan handle? The Keys? Being in NC and 8.5 hours away, I'm trying to envision somewhere in FL proper that is 7 hours from WDW.

 

[Skywalker3]

Just personal curiosity. 7 hours? Extreme western pan handle? The Keys? Being in NC and 8.5 hours away, I'm trying to envision somewhere in FL proper that is 7 hours from WDW.

I have a couple of cousins in Pensacola, and they're about 6.5 hours away, 7 w stops. We used to drive from LA, and always felt like I10 from the FL line took forever!!

I don't understand either why FL residents are still allowed to buy, when out of state is not. Disney just lost 4 1/2 days of park days/spending on us on our last trip, due to us cutting back on park days/Disney tickets. Happy to use a couple of days of our week at Universal, using our AP there, and happy to go offsite to eat/do other activities. BUT staying at BWV, would've also been happy to use them to eat some extra Ronto wraps, F/W food, and spend some time shopping in parks
No current plans to go back to WDW until they offer APs, no idea what we'll do with all of our DVC points in the meantime. Might plan a F/W trip next year, might not. Might rent out points, might just go to Vero/HH and eat off site

 

[Straulin]

I know the language was added after..but once done, it is still surprising that they haven’t opened sales.

As others have said, they clearly want to maximize the amount of money each person spends per day at the parks. I expect the day guest numbers will drop as we move away from the lockdown. There was a backlog of people that hadn't been able to take vacations, and with all the money the government gave out during the height of the pandemic, a lot of people can afford a WDW vacation that normally wouldn't. I would think the time of those 'bonus' guests is starting to end. So hopefully the financial aspect will start to turn back toward AP's.

 

[Ms Bibbidi]

As others have said, they clearly want to maximize the amount of money each person spends per day at the parks. I expect the day guest numbers will drop as we move away from the lockdown. There was a backlog of people that hadn't been able to take vacations, and with all the money the government gave out during the height of the pandemic, a lot of people can afford a WDW vacation that normally wouldn't. I would think the time of those 'bonus' guests is starting to end. So hopefully the financial aspect will start to turn back toward AP's.

Disney put a cap on the number of APs sold. They also lowered the attendance/capacity cap in the parks. They believe that having a less dense crowd improves the per guest spend rate. Chapek said he would not bend on those numbers. McCarthy said they would use different tools to increase attendance and did not include selling more APs above the cap. Chapek just said as far as they could forecast into the future they did not see the demand changing enough to change their current park management system.

So, even though a lot of people speculate that the post covid travel surge will diminish and therefore result in opening new sales of APs, I don't think this is where Disney is forecasting or heading. The cap on new sales of annual passes is the limit. I do not see them expanding that limit even for a recession as most modern recessions are short lived, compared to the long term commitment of adding hundreds of thousands of annual passholders to the "attendance mix." It's like a recession is an 18 month to 2 year thing that can be managed with other tools, while a commitment to another 500,000 in new annual passes is a 10 year commitment.

Disney has to address the loss of the RCID before they can build new things to add capacity. That will be a long, slow, government enmeshed process. Right not I would not be surprised if Disney is not pretty grateful that they capped the limit on the number of APs distributed. They might open sales to sell the ones returned for those who did not renew, but I just do not see them adding any significant amount to the current limits on APs outstanding. It is working for them.

 

[DizneyFamof4]

Just personal curiosity. 7 hours? Extreme western pan handle? The Keys? Being in NC and 8.5 hours away, I'm trying to envision somewhere in FL proper that is 7 hours from WDW.

Panhandle 55 miles east of Pensacola, 430 miles from WDW. If you add in the time change when going to WDW it's 8 hours. Sure cannot wait till they eliminate the time change next year.

 

[ltalley1]

I talked to MS today because my AP expires in November and wanted to know the current options. Yes I can renew and I also asked about the Florida passes because I just bought a place in Orlando and will get a FL drivers license around Feb. She said maybe I can get the Pixie pass but she is not sure if they will allow new purchases of that at that point. Not very helpful. So I likely will renew for one more year as if we have family down, really don't want to not be able to go into the parks with them on a weekend.

Disney just seems to be alienating their most loyal guests but I understand that if you are visiting several times during the year you are not going to spend much as someone who is a first time visitor and wowed by all the "stuff" for sale. We rarely buy stuff anymore except T Shirts or something that might really WOW me, like a gold plated Monorail train.

Just wanted to let you know, you can purchase a Florida resident pass if you own a residence in Florida and do not have a current Florida DL. You have to provide a mortgage statement or utility bill with your name on it and it must be dated within 2 months of the purchase/activation. We did this as we are living 6 months of the year at our place in Florida but are retaining our drivers licenses in our other state of residence. You can do the renewal online, but then must go to guest services to activate and show your proof of residency. Just thought this might help in your situation.

 

[Bibbidi_Boo]

We live in Florida and the Florida APs were good when the break even mark was 8 days and I believe the last time I checked it was something like 14+ days and the latest has a lot more black out dates. For people that live in Central FL that would work, but for families like mine that are a 7 hour drive away, not so much. Our past trips, we always stayed onsite and inside the bubble, so that included eating all meals at a Disney QS or TS. We always let our DDs buy a souvenir or 2 on every trip. We had APs for 16 straight years and gave them up a couple of years ago, because it was no longer worth it to us.

The break even point is going to vary based on how you do trips. Only doing 2-3 day trips a fews times adds up a lot faster than doing 2 longer trips a year.

 

[kilik64]

Sure cannot wait till they eliminate the time change next year.

Do what? They making all of FL EST?

 

[Ms Bibbidi]

Do what? They making all of FL EST?

Apparently they are going to eliminate daylight savings time; not the time zones.

 

[kilik64]

Apparently they are going to eliminate daylight savings time; not the time zones.

Which has nothing to do with the time changing from panhandle to rest of the state...

 

[DizneyFamof4]

The break even point is going to vary based on how you do trips. Only doing 2-3 day trips a fews times adds up a lot faster than doing 2 longer trips a year.

True, but for us, it's really not worth it to drive 7 hours for a

Do what? They making all of FL EST?

My bad in 2023 we will stay on daylight savings time and no longer need to change our clocks. I forgot that they modified the bill to just do daylight savings. The original plan, and what I thought was them trying to make Florida just 1 time zone, they were actually planning on moving the EST part of FL to Atlantic time zone and the CST part of FL to EST. So stupid! Below is part of that bills verbiage from back in 2018.
"So the change Florida lawmakers desire is technically a change of time zone. The majority of Florida would move from Eastern time to Atlantic time: the zone that's home to Puerto Rico, the U.S. Virgin Islands and the Canadian Maritime provinces. The western part of the state's panhandle is on Central time; residents there would shift to Eastern time." So I would still lose an hour driving to WDW, even is they did change it