Please, Barbara, tell us how you TRULY feel!

[MycatlovesEeyore]

Ducklite, all I am saying is that the majority of people whom I have personally witnessed in the circumstance of taking an over-night flight and keeping the light on the duration of the flight have little regard for the disturbance they impose on the other travellers. These same people, again in my experience, are the ones who show the most displeasure when a child wakes up and cries due in large part to the light being on. It seems to me to be a very egocentric, me-me-me attitude, and that is why it bothers me.

 

[ducklite]

Ducklite, all I am saying is that the majority of people whom I have personally witnessed in the circumstance of taking an over-night flight and keeping the light on the duration of the flight have little regard for the disturbance they impose on the other travellers. These same people, again in my experience, are the ones who show the most displeasure when a child wakes up and cries due in large part to the light being on. It seems to me to be a very egocentric, me-me-me attitude, and that is why it bothers me.

How do you think this predicament should be resolved? Do you really expect the person in their "day time" to turn off the light and sit in the dark to accomodate you in a place of public accomodation because you choose to travel at night when you know your children aren't sound sleepers?

On the flip side do you think that daytime travel should be with shades down and no lights on to accomodate those trying to sleep? Because you can't have it both ways.

Wouldn't it perhaps be more appropriate to travel during the daytime with your children so someone's airline supplied reading light wouldn't have the potential to bother them?

I'm not bothered by a child's cries as long as the parent is doing whatever it takes to soothe them back to sleep or quiet. It's the parent who ignores thier crying or rambunctious child who I find appalling.

Anne

 

[MycatlovesEeyore]

How do you think this predicament should be resolved? Do you really expect the person in their "day time" to turn off the light and sit in the dark to accomodate you in a place of public accomodation because you choose to travel at night when you know your children aren't sound sleepers?

On the flip side do you think that daytime travel should be with shades down and no lights on to accomodate those trying to sleep? Because you can't have it both ways.

That is not what I am saying at all. If you in your personal decisions/actions intrude upon another person's "personal space", why should you be exempt from them imposing on yours? The last time I flew, the airline also supplied blankets and pillows. Does your light trump the pillow and the action it was designed for? Does the pillow trump your light and the action it was designed for? If you cannot have consideration for others, do not expect any in return. Everyone is confined in this space for a predetermined amount of time. A little two-way consideration is all it takes to make the voyage a little more bearable and that is all I ask.

 

[antmaril]

A little two-way consideration is all it takes to make the voyage a little more bearable and that is all I ask.

This is why I can't recline the seat.

 

[ducklite]

That is not what I am saying at all. If you in your personal decisions/actions intrude upon another person's "personal space", why should you be exempt from them imposing on yours? The last time I flew, the airline also supplied blankets and pillows. Does your light trump the pillow and the action it was designed for? Does the pillow trump your light and the action it was designed for? If you cannot have consideration for others, do not expect any in return. Everyone is confined in this space for a predetermined amount of time. A little two-way consideration is all it takes to make the voyage a little more bearable and that is all I ask.

I'm not asking anyone to not use the pillow and blanket. I'm not sure what your point is. Most travelers who need to have darkness to sleep bring a sleepmask, or don't book redeyes. Pillows are not just for sleeping. Many use them for lumbar support. Blankets are not just for sleeping. People use them because planes can be chilly. Many carriers don't even have pillows and blankets anymore. Does that mean no one is allowed to sleep? Of course not. Does it mean that travelers should expect complete darkness from other travelers? Of course not.

I'm not sure what type of consideration you expect from someone who is traveling during their daytime and wants to read to pass the time. What would you like that person to do?

Anne

 

[disneyldwjr]

Ducklite, all I am saying is that the majority of people whom I have personally witnessed in the circumstance of taking an over-night flight and keeping the light on the duration of the flight have little regard for the disturbance they impose on the other travellers. These same people, again in my experience, are the ones who show the most displeasure when a child wakes up and cries due in large part to the light being on. It seems to me to be a very egocentric, me-me-me attitude, and that is why it bothers me.

How is it a very egocentric, me-me-me attitude to read with the light on during a red eye flight while you child tries to sleep?
I think what bothers me is the parent's "you must stop the world because my child is bothered by this" attitude that is so very very prevalent today.
Fact, the airlines' supply lights for illumination during flights. Fact, it is the space that you "own" for the duration of the flight. Fact, if it bothers someone that is unfortunate, truly, however, I see absolutely no reason to change my activities to accomodate someone who is bothered. I certainly would not expect someone to do it for me. Fact, the world does not revolve around you, me, your child, or anyone else. We all have to live in it and deal with issues that are bothersome.

 

[MycatlovesEeyore]

I'm not asking anyone to not use the pillow and blanket. I'm not sure what your point is. Most travelers who need to have darkness to sleep bring a sleepmask, or don't book redeyes.

This statement is absurd. I suppose that is why all of the lights are turned off by the pilot during the red-eye flight? I suppose that is why no entertainment is offered such as an in-flight movie?

I'm not sure what type of consideration you expect from someone who is traveling during their daytime and wants to read to pass the time. What would you like that person to do?

I am asking that person to take off the tunnel-vision glasses and think about how their action is going to impact the others around them. This is not just the night-owl on the red-eye, but everyone. If you want to keep the light on, just be considerate and turn it off when you are finished reading. If the light cause a child to wake and they are confused, disoriented, and crying do not be upset because the child cries. If your child is upset, try your damnedest to calm and quiet them down. Do not just view the world in terms of what affects you or your wants. That is the consideration I am asking for.

 

[MycatlovesEeyore]

Fact, if it bothers someone that is unfortunate, truly, however, I see absolutely no reason to change my activities to accomodate someone who is bothered.

The very definition of a me-me-me attitude.

 

[ducklite]

This statement is absurd. I suppose that is why all of the lights are turned off by the pilot during the red-eye flight? I suppose that is why no entertainment is offered such as an in-flight movie?

They don't show a movie because *most* people would be sleeping---but sleeping is NOT a requirement, neither is sitting in darkness. If they were demanding that ALL people sleep, they wouldn't provide reading lights overhead for those who choose to use them.

I am asking that person to take off the tunnel-vision glasses and think about how their action is going to impact the others around them. This is not just the night-owl on the red-eye, but everyone. If you want to keep the light on, just be considerate and turn it off when you are finished reading.

Uh, I said earlier that if I chose to nap I would turn the light off.

If the light cause a child to wake and they are confused, disoriented, and crying do not be upset because the child cries.

Uh, I also said that I could understand a child crying and it doesn't upset me as long as the parent is actively comforting them.

If your child is upset, try your damnedest to calm and quiet them down.

That's all I'm asking for.

Do not just view the world in terms of what affects you or your wants. That is the consideration I am asking for.

I'm an extremely considerate person. I try to live my life to have the least impact on those around me when I'm in a place of public accomodation. But in the same breath, I won't be bullied by those who think the world revolves around them--and thier kids--when I'm minding my own business, using something that was provided for my comfort to have the least disturbance of those around me. The provide reading lights so they CAN turn the rest of the cabin lighting down. Seems to me that sleepers are already being accomodated in that respect.

Anne

 

[bavaria]

Actually, the typical recline is about 4-6 inches. Regardless, reclining a seat is an appropriate use of the space you're given.

I usually bite my tongue and avoid the 'recline or not' arguments but not today.

For those of you who are so tense about not reclining your seat, I suspect that you are the leisure, once a year type traveller, who flies a few hours or less to get to WDW or some other destination.

While I don't recline on a CRJ or Dash 8 (and many of those seats DON'T recline) I will certainly recline my seat in 1st, Business, or Economy Plus seating.

I seriously doubt that those of you who protest would sit up straight on a 14 hour flight and not recline at all. If you had a 'lie flat' seat in business class, would you sit upright while all those around you slept flat? I doubt it.

My schedule means that I often don't much sleep other than on an airplane, and expecting me to sit totally upright in a seat designed to recline is unreasonable, especially when I am usually seating in a seat with ample leg room. (I mention this because a few months ago on a 6+ hour flight I was in first and had a passenger behind me griping the entire trip that my seat was reclined a few inches. Sorry, that argument doesn't work in 1st class.

I'm sorry if I sound harsh, but I find it interesting that the frequent flyers agree with the original statements made, while those who disagree are most likely the infrequent leisure traveller.

 

[MycatlovesEeyore]

I try to live my life to have the least impact on those around me when I'm in a place of public accomodation. But in the same breath, I won't be bullied by those who think the world revolves around them--and thier kids--when I'm minding my own business.

Anne

I guess we are in agreement on that. I do not expect the world to revolve around me or my children. But I will not stand idly by and let it run me over either.

 

[lost*in*cyberspace]

This statement is absurd. I suppose that is why all of the lights are turned off by the pilot during the red-eye flight? I suppose that is why no entertainment is offered such as an in-flight movie?

No, it is not. What is absurd is for you to expect that another PAX who does not want to sleep should have to turn off their overhead light because it is inconveniencing you or your family. If you can afford a plane ticket, you certainly should be able to afford a cheap pair of eyeshades.

 

[NancyIL]

I agree with Barbara's list. And - I disagree with those who say one shouldn't recline their seats. Seats don't recline more than a few inches unless they are broken, and the person occupying the seat has every right to recline, if he/she so wishes.

 

[bavaria]

I suppose that is why all of the lights are turned off by the pilot during the red-eye flight? I suppose that is why no entertainment is offered such as an in-flight movie?

On the red eye flights and long haul flights I fly, the cabin lights may be dimmed for part of the flight, but the individual lights are still functional.

And yes, there are often in-flight movies on red-eye flights.

Also, many airlines offer individual in-flight entertainment on their flights - would you expect your fellow passenger not to watch their personal video screen?

 

[ducklite]

I guess we are in agreement on that. I do not expect the world to revolve around me or my children. But I will not stand idly by and let it run me over either.

Who is running you over? Because someone wants to read using an airline supplied overhead? That passenger has every right to do so, and frankly if it's so bothersome to you or your children, you should not take red-eyes. You can't expect people to not have their light on to read or work because you find it bothersome. It sounds to me like you ARE asking the world to revolve around you and your children because you CHOOSE to take flights at night KNOWING that your children can't sleep with the light on and then get upset beacuse someone doesn't operate under your timetable. Wow. Just wow.

Anne

 

[disneyldwjr]

The very definition of a me-me-me attitude.

No, actually it is not. In keeping on topic here, I feel it downright absurd to have to sit in the dark, wide awake because your little one cannot sleep with a light on. And, if I happen to nod off with the light on, I am sorry, but, it certainly was not on purpose, it does happen that you sometimes drift of to sleeply land. As others have mentioned, you could invest in a sleep mask for her and your problem would be solved. I would NEVER expect someone to put out their light to accomodate me, why should I? I would never even ask.
When on public transportation you are going to run into something you don't like. You simply roll with the punches and get on with life.

 

[spiceycat]

my big problem with air travel - are the people who are sick - who think it is their right to spread their germs around.

they sneeze and cough with no effort to cover their mouth or nose....

I have gotten sick the last time I flew - because of one these jerks sat down besides me. (and the airline had you can't travel with liquid soap at the time)

now if you are sick and flying because you have too - then please be kind to your fellow passengers and cover up.

I am not saying don't fly.

 

[Lewisc]

Is it considered rude to turn off another passengers overhead light if it is obvious the passenger has been sleeping for more than a few minutes? I'm assuming the passenger is snoring, the book has fallen to the floor or other clear signs.

I've done the reverse and turned on the reading light for a passenger that couldn't easily reach the switch. In that case I ask but, when the need is obvious, I may be turning it on at almost the same time the passenger is saying yes or thank you.

Who is running you over? Because someone wants to read using an airline supplied overhead? That passenger has every right to do so, and frankly if it's so bothersome to you or your children, you should not take red-eyes. You can't expect people to not have their light on to read or work because you find it bothersome. It sounds to me like you ARE asking the world to revolve around you and your children because you CHOOSE to take flights at night KNOWING that your children can't sleep with the light on and then get upset beacuse someone doesn't operate under your timetable. Wow. Just wow.

Anne

 

[ducklite]

Is it considered rude to turn off another passengers overhead light if it is obvious the passenger has been sleeping for more than a few minutes? I'm assuming the passenger is snoring, the book has fallen to the floor or other clear signs.

In that case I don't think it is rude. If they wake up and complain I'd just tell them "Sorry, I was simply trying to be helpful, I thought you were sleeping and didn't want your light to disturb you." If they were just sitting for a minute with their eyes closed then it would be very rude. I sometimes close my eyes for a minute or two while on a plane just to get some moisture into the old eyeballs. Of course I'm not snoring, and my head isn't lolling about, and I'm not drolling out of the corner of my mouth.

I've done the reverse and turned on the reading light for a passenger that couldn't easily reach the switch. In that case I ask but, when the need is obvious, I may be turning it on at almost the same time the passenger is saying yes or thank you.

I would do the same for someone who is unable to easily reach it--maybe they had a magazine in one hand and thier arm in a sling for example.

Anne

 

[MycatlovesEeyore]

Who is running you over? Because someone wants to read using an airline supplied overhead? That passenger has every right to do so, and frankly if it's so bothersome to you or your children, you should not take red-eyes. You can't expect people to not have their light on to read or work because you find it bothersome. It sounds to me like you ARE asking the world to revolve around you and your children because you CHOOSE to take flights at night KNOWING that your children can't sleep with the light on and then get upset beacuse someone doesn't operate under your timetable. Wow. Just wow.

Anne

It is not the fact people fly with the lights on. It is the reaction they have if during the flight, my daughter wakes and creates a disturbance. I understand that you do not fall into this group, but these people are out there. Let me make something clear, my oldest (4 yrs) has made approximately eight cross-country trips and my youngest (18 mnths) has been on four of those. This did not happen on the vast majority of the flights. But on two flights where one of my girls did happen to wake, we received a very nasty look from the person with the light on. For the most part my girls can sleep through just about anything. But a deep sleep is almost impossible on a 737 or an MD80. If someone chooses to leave the light on for the duration of the red-eye, that is their option and right. However, a person should not be upset or make a very obvious show of displeasure when their action contributes to a situation they do not happen to like.