People need to stop complaining!

[Brian Noble]

I have posted something along the lines of this in one thread, but i feel like this needs to be said in a thread of its own: REALLY?!

I know this sounds strange, but this conversation is par for the course for the Disneyana community. Other examples include $21 asparagus, the theft of valet parking in the dark of night, and the horror that is the Pandoraverse.

 

[southerngirl528]

If you are tired of hearing complaints, please step aside and let those vent. I think those who want to complain have very valid points and deserve to voice their opinions.

But it sounds like you are tired of those of us that do not agree....... isn't a forum about both sides? And don't both sides deserve to voice their views?

 

[southerngirl528]

I know this sounds strange, but this conversation is par for the course for the Disneyana community. Other examples include $21 asparagus, the theft of valet parking in the dark of night, and the horror that is the Pandoraverse.

Ok, I've gotta know about this $21 asparagus? What IS that?? I know about the "theft of valet parking in the dark of night" (and boy do I remember THAT ruckus! It was akin to DCL restricting carry-on booze! LOL), and I THINK I know what the "Pandoraverse" phenom is, but asparagus???? Do tell.

 

[djohn06]

But it sounds like you are tired of those of us that do not agree....... isn't a forum about both sides? And don't both sides deserve to voice their views?

I think complainers deserve the right to continue complaining. The latest changes just happened Monday. It is still fresh.

If someone feels it's no big deal and we should get over it, one it entitled to that opinion. I don't agree with this as I am never for the suppression of dialogue.

 

[Whitters87]

To me I think the complaints are totally valid for this reason. Based on an efficient market, the prices that people are locked into on the contracts that are already signed were based on the expectation that those benefits existed. So they paid for benefits they will not receive. People who bought the contracts before this date get to keep the benefits and paid the higher rates. People who by the contract after this date will likely have a lower cost per point since the new cost will reflect the loss of benefits.

Is it true they can take away right any time? Definitely. But Disney has historically grandfathered people in. So most people don't expect to actually have rights stripped from them personally. They just expect to lose value when they resale, nd since many people who own DVC don't expect to sell their contracts, they don't really care.

But honestly it doesn't seem all that big of a monetary thing in looking at what's listed for extras... And I'm hoping people can get around it by buying a bulk of their points in resale and then getting a small add on direct from Disney so they can be official DVC members... Hopefully that's an option.

 

[MSS91]

I think complainers deserve the right to continue complaining. The latest changes just happened Monday. It is still fresh.

If someone feels it's no big deal and we should get over it, one it entitled to that opinion. I don't agree with this as I am never for the suppression of dialogue.

it's not even a dialogue any more. it's just a bunch of people complaining. The first couple days, it was a dialogue. Now people are whining that DVC is discriminating and rehashing the same point that they are "entitled" to these perks. At this point you should have come to terms with the fact that DVC has made these changes, they are not going back on them, and they always had a right to do this. If you had your purchase completed, none of this affects you. In my observations, this appears to be the majority of people posting and complaining. The small population of people who fell into the gray zone of mailed my documents then it changed are definitely the minority here and they are the ones who have a right to complain.

 

[MSS91]

To me I think the complaints are totally valid for this reason. Based on an efficient market, the prices that people are locked into on the contracts that are already signed were based on the expectation that those benefits existed. So they paid for benefits they will not receive. People who bought the contracts before this date get to keep the benefits and paid the higher rates. People who by the contract after this date will likely have a lower cost per point since the new cost will reflect the loss of benefits.

At this point, I would imagine that people who are in this gray zone would be able to contact DVC or the reseller, explain to them that the terms of their contact changed once their paperwork was signed, and that they want to back out of the contract or they can try and argue that they should be getting these benefits. If you aren't happy with your situation, then back out of the contract and repurchase when the prices go down after the dust settles. If DVC or the reseller won't let you back out and they try to tell you that you are stuck with the higher price for the lower benefits and that you are in a binding contract at that point in time, then the buyer can argue that if the contact is binding, it was on the terms that were originally agreed upon and therefore, should be grandfathered in with the benefits.

 

[djohn06]

Once again, I never said people that are upset do not have a right to complain or don't deserve to complain. None of this has to do with the other associated changes that have occurred in the past 30 days. What this all boils down to is this:
1. I am sorry for everyone who have situations similar to a previous poster, who signed their paperwork and mailed it in, only to find out that perks have changed. This scenario is not fair because you were led to believe one thing, signed your part, and could not get it back from the mail. You are the population who is allowed to complain.
2. If you were considering buying DVC resale, you really should reconsider complaining because the terms are allowed to change at any point in time. You are paying less but still expecting the same grand package. Life doesn't always work this way. If the perks are that important to you, then buy directly from DVC.

I think the title "People Need to Stop Complaining" evokes some to think if a person doesn't like the changes, they just need to get over them because nothing was promised beyond a room to DVC owners.

I think your 2 points are valid. However, your list is not all encompassing. This change is evidence of further benefit erosion on a much larger and quicker scale than many expected, or are used to even by Disney standards.

I'm looking at the bigger picture. That's is why all the recent changes matter....IMHO.

 

[djohn06]

it's not even a dialogue any more. it's just a bunch of people complaining. The first couple days, it was a dialogue. Now people are whining that DVC is discriminating and rehashing the same point that they are "entitled" to these perks. At this point you should have come to terms with the fact that DVC has made these changes, they are not going back on them, and they always had a right to do this. If you had your purchase completed, none of this affects you. In my observations, this appears to be the majority of people posting and complaining. The small population of people who fell into the gray zone of mailed my documents then it changed are definitely the minority here and they are the ones who have a right to complain.

I just joined this conversation, but I've seen similar on other boards. Human nature is after a couple days, the mob mentality takes over. That's just what it is......

People are frustrated with getting so many changes to a place they love and adore. I know Disney is a business first, but honestly I know of no other business that makes so many negative changes to their clients or customers in such a small timeframe.

Personally, I've been a member for 3 years and many of the perks can be ascertained other ways (except maybe for the annual pass discount). Food discounts can be found on a Disney Visa. Reality is, DVC doesn't give a lot of perks anyway.

 

[MSS91]

I think the title "People Need to Stop Complaining" evokes some to think if a person doesn't like the changes, they just need to get over them because nothing was promised beyond a room to DVC owners.

I think your 2 points are valid. However, your list is not all encompassing. This change is evidence of further benefit erosion on a much larger and quicker scale than many expected, or are used to even by Disney standards.

I'm looking at the bigger picture. That's is why all the recent changes matter....IMHO.

Everyone that has DVC through either a reseller or directly from DVC had to sign a contract. In that contract it says benefits can change at any time. All you signed up for WAS the promise of a room. That was one (if not the only) concrete part of your contract. A benefit is a BENEFIT for a reason. It is meant to be something extra, that is not guaranteed forever.

People are absolutely allowed to be frustrated, but you are essentially complaining because the binding contract that you want to sign is not going to have what you wanted it to, in addition to your room. If you already signed this contract, you got your benefits. No problems.

DVC and Disney can do whatever they want to their benefits. I'm sure the reason that they are decreasing at this point is because the demand is much greater. Why do you need to entice people to join DVC if they already want to? The demand for DVC has clearly increased so much so that they no longer need to lure people in with other bonuses.

Let me give you an example. I live in Buffalo. This is a huge hockey city. There is demand for tickets to a hockey game. When i buy my ticket to a game here, all i am guaranteed is my seat to the game. However, we also have a condo in Tampa. We once went to see a Tampa hockey game. Boy were we shocked when we bought the same level of tickets that we always purchase at home, only to find out that in Tampa, a buffet and open bar were bonuses that were included with our tickets. Why? because no one in Florida watches hockey, let alone shells out money to go to a game. They need benefits and a reason to convince people to buy tickets to that game. There is no reason for a city like Buffalo to entice people with benefits attached to their tickets because they are selling them just fine without spending extra / losing money in some capacity to bring people in.

DVC has reached that point where they know they are going to be able to still sell points and make money without having to convince people to buy into it with perks.

 

[Sammie]

I think the key point in all of this, is that no one was really buying any of these perks in buying a resale or even a direct sale. It states that very plainly. I think some must have either overlooked that or simply ignored it.

You should not purchase or add on real estate interest in a Disney Vacation Club Resort in reliance upon the continued availability or renewal or extension of these offers.

 

[MSS91]

I just joined this conversation, but I've seen similar on other boards. Human nature is after a couple days, the mob mentality takes over. That's just what it is......

People are frustrated with getting so many changes to a place they love and adore. I know Disney is a business first, but honestly I know of no other business that makes so many negative changes to their clients or customers in such a small timeframe.

Personally, I've been a member for 3 years and many of the perks can be ascertained other ways (except maybe for the annual pass discount). Food discounts can be found on a Disney Visa. Reality is, DVC doesn't give a lot of perks anyway.

You make so many valid points, but the one i really want to highlight is this one: People are frustrated with getting so many changes to a place they love and adore.

Thats just the thing. Everyone on here ADORES Disney and I bet that the majority of people upset about losing their perks are going to still have DVC and still keep going to Disney and spending their money there. Disney is smart. They know people will be upset for the most part a couple of weeks, then everyone is going to miss going to Disney and remember why they love it, and end up doing the same thing anyways! and they saved money on it.

 

[Whitters87]

At this point, I would imagine that people who are in this gray zone would be able to contact DVC or the reseller, explain to them that the terms of their contact changed once their paperwork was signed, and that they want to back out of the contract or they can try and argue that they should be getting these benefits. If you aren't happy with your situation, then back out of the contract and repurchase when the prices go down after the dust settles. If DVC or the reseller won't let you back out and they try to tell you that you are stuck with the higher price for the lower benefits and that you are in a binding contract at that point in time, then the buyer can argue that if the contact is binding, it was on the terms that were originally agreed upon and therefore, should be grandfathered in with the benefits.

Honestly I'm a little bit happy about the situation because it may drop resale prices, and I would just be losing benefits I didn't really care about in the first place. And this may make it so people are less likely to buy resale and demand may drop, possibly decreasing resale prices even further (though Disney may swoop in the ROFR).

I can just see why people who are stuck in the middle of purchasing may be angry. And given that they explicitly listed the 4th I doubt Disney is going to help anyone. Hopefully resellers are accommodating to people who want to back out or renegotiate.

 

[djohn06]

You make so many valid points, but the one i really want to highlight is this one: People are frustrated with getting so many changes to a place they love and adore.

Thats just the thing. Everyone on here ADORES Disney and I bet that the majority of people upset about losing their perks are going to still have DVC and still keep going to Disney and spending their money there. Disney is smart. They know people will be upset for the most part a couple of weeks, then everyone is going to miss going to Disney and remember why they love it, and end up doing the same thing anyways! and they saved money on it.

The love and adore part = the frustration and complaints. This is just the emotional part of the change.

Personally, I am fine spending a week at Disney and going to a park for 1 or 2 days. Also, I get groceries and make many meals as the meal quality has also gone down at WDW. We usually get a 1 bedroom with a kitchen.

Next visit in May, I am spending 2 days at AKV and then 7 at the Marriott Grande Vista. I got a 3 bedroom there for the prices of a studio at Disney. We will go to Uni for 3 days and not do any Disney park days.

I voice my frustration with my wallet. At some point Disney will notice all the DVC owners spending less and less at the parks and around the resorts on meals. After 3 years of staying in the Disney Bubble, I'm ok with venturing out more within the city. WDW had made this easy for me to do with all the price increases.

 

[bumbershoot]

I can't be the only person who is getting tired of hearing people complain about how "it's just not fair."

It's been about 30 hours. Give it some time before you grow tired of something.

In my opinion, if I was paying more for my DVC because I bought it from DVC and not a reseller, I would hope that I was getting some other perk for paying more than someone else that was essentially getting the same thing I was.

Um, I did pay more for our DVC b/c we bought it direct (and we financed so we're paying Disney EVEN MORE), and I don't give a rat's rear about others getting it for less. Doesn't bother me in the slightest! Good for them! I paid more than people who bought on Day 1. I paid LESS than those buying now. Once we've paid DVC off I'll add it up and start mentioning the total we paid. I bet those of us who financed paid a LOT more than many other direct buyers; we deserve more, right? By that reasoning?

also, my family does not resell any of our points. we use them all, every calendar year. or we roll some over to the next year. but either way, we do not sell our points because we bought them to use. so right now and in the future, nothing with resale affects us.

The person you're responding to isn't talking about renting points, which is what you are talking about here. They are talking about in the future, if you don't want the contract anymore, and choose to sell your contract, this new policy will hurt YOU. You're talking about something other than what that poster was talking about.

you have a right to complain. i never said that. i just said that people should stop complaining (for the most part).

Once again, I never said people that are upset do not have a right to complain or don't deserve to complain.

Subject line: "People need to stop complaining".

OK so people have a right to complain, they deserve to complain. But they...should STOP complaining.

Um, OK.

Yet that was the case from 1993 until 2011. So who is foolish?

Exactly.

i still say people who assumed that Disney wouldn't eventually try to distinguish themselves from resellers are foolish.

Given that Disney themselves are the ones who created DVC *in order to be different from all those other timeshares who did distinguish*, I would say that people just believed a company that was believable for many decades.

Within the past 30 days we have seen the following:

Increased ticket prices
Reduced Pool hours
Entertainment cut back at the parks
Longer waits times due to reduced staff
Delays on River of Lights
Delays on Star Wars land
Bus schedules wait time increased
Increased dining costs
Now resale ownership changes

If you are tired of hearing complaints, please step aside and let those vent. I think those who want to complain have very valid points and deserve to voice their opinions.

YES.

None of this has to do with the other associated changes that have occurred in the past 30 days.

But it does have to do with it. This isn't all being done in a vacuum. It adds up.

The first couple days, it was a dialogue.

Um, it's been since Monday. In case you aren't aware, it's Tuesday (pacific time). It hasn't even been 48 hours. "The first couple days"? We're still IN the first couple days. Take a break from the boards if it doesn't bother you. Don't open the threads.

Everyone on here ADORES Disney

Nope. They've convinced me they don't deserve to be adored. I'm rapidly going back to my 20s, when it was "Disney is evil". I'm about to start reading Hiassen novels again. Disney = Meh.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

But it sounds like you are tired of those of us that do not agree....... isn't a forum about both sides? And don't both sides deserve to voice their views?

This thread essentially started with a complaint about complainers?

 

[Sophie_inBflo]

Um, it's been since Monday. In case you aren't aware, it's Tuesday (pacific time). It hasn't even been 48 hours. "The first couple days"? We're still IN the first couple days. Take a break from the boards if it doesn't bother you. Don't open the threads

To follow up on this point, for the few of us in ROFR, this changed for us at 5pm today (10 hours ago) when our broker was notified that Disney would not grandfather us. We are currently bound to a contract that very well may not be going for as much $/point by this time next week- only time and the market will tell. And since we're past the 10-day cancellation window, we're stuck with it! (Or will be out our deposit.)

 

[gr8tdame]

I contacted my broker who told me to put in a complaint about Disney vacation Development with the BBB.
I am going to write DVD first. This is their address.
Disney Vacation Development Inc
1390 Celebration Blvd.
Celebration, Fl 34747-5166

I also asked them to rescind the contract as Disneys policies changed from when I signed the contract with no advance warning and this had devalued my purchase.

 

[pmaurer74]

This is the first time I finally understand the complaints. I was annoyed with the recent complaints too but they did not affect me too much. The black out dates on the AP affects me but I was not sure if I was going to renew anyway. They moved the MVMCP dates and now my family will not be able to see the Christmas parade and fireworks without paying for an after hours event ticket. I now have paid EMH the two MK days I am visiting in June. ROL, A&E, Norway, Soarin' may or may not be open for my trip making it impossible to finalize plans. These are just annoying things but I am glad to have new things to do. I love Disney, a lot. I felt proud of my new DVC and in taking family, a lot of family, on two trips this year to share my love of Disney with them. Trying to sing the praises of DVC to my friend who is new to Disney. I knew it would someday affect me in that the rose colored glasses would come off... I was hoping for a few more years of magic.

The latest does not affect me except for decrease value of my DVC should I choose to sell. I see these changes all coming swift and fast and makes me feel less valued as a customer. Whether I am wrong about this or not... Disney was a relationship to me. Good brands have relationships with their loyal customers and makes them feel valued. I think this is being lost on Disney right now and they will likely feel the affect. I think 2017 will be our first Universal trip or maybe I will take a needed break. I really hope my love for Disney comes back through my two trips this year. I finally understand what others are feeling.

I bought DVC to share my love for Disney with my friends and family, not for the discounts. I did not even know about them really when I bought but I now believe bigger changes are coming. Disney's making the experience magical to the customers is what sets them apart. I hope they do not lose that.

 

[boxer11]

Anytime Disney pulls away a perk it devalues it's resale value. Let's say you just signed a contract to buy a home in a new neighborhood that has perks like a pool, private beach access, local discount card, and a lounge. Now after you just signed your contract the neighborhood says "You can't have access to any of our "perks" because you purchased your home resell and not from the builder. But you still have to pay our yearly maintenance fee like all members." These perks are not free... DVC members are already paying for these discounts & perks in the form of their yearly maintenance fees. I'm sure someone will say I'm wrong because Disney "told us" these perks are not built into the YMF. Sure they're not.... The people that are on this board downplaying this move by Disney must be sellers trying to protect resale value from dropping.