Panda's At The Animal Kingdom?

[Lilipupy]

Really? That's so cute!

 

[Josh Hendy]

I recall hearing a podcast, probably something involving Jim Hill, in which it was stated that the chief point of negotiation involved with acquiring pandas is the division of gate and concession revenues. Besides the arrangements for proper care of the animals of course. If I recall correctly, China doesn't sell pandas but rents or lends them, in return for a large percentage of the financial benefits.

Speculation was at that time (a couple of years ago at least) that the negotiations between China and Disney about pandas would also be tied up with the arrangements for Shanghai Disney project. I think it was also stated in so many words that the Chinese government is very hard-headed about the financial side and can be counted on to drive a very hard bargain.

Perhaps the fact that a lot of other zoos have pandas is because they are public zoos. The financial benefit of the animals may not be such a huge thing to the zoos (because of the Chinese government's significant financial interest), but the directors of the zoo may be satisfied because the increased attendance fits their mandate to educate the public about conservation, etc.

For Disney on the other hand profits are the only reason for either having or not having pandas. So it is possible that the reason why you don't see them yet at DAK is that the financial model pursued by the Chinese government so far with public zoos just doesn't work for Disney.

 

[Yellowstonetim]

I think you've hit the nail on the head, Josh. Disney will only do it as a good financial risk versus benefit, and China will also drive a hard bargain. I do not know what some of the plusses and minuses might be for each party. It is amazing that they even got as far as talking. I, unfortunately, give it a less than 50% probability of happening.

 

[Disneyaddict0505]

I am glad to hear this...I think they could really do some wonderful conservation type stuff with this.

 

[katiescat]

That would be great though, I'd love to see some pandas one day.

 

[pryncess527]

We have pandas here at the Atlanta Zoo, and they don't really seem to be a huge draw.

I'd love to see what Disney would do with the exhibit, though.

I have always thought of the pandas as a HUGE draw to the ATL zoo. It was such a big deal when we got them.

 

[DebbieB]

IIRC, to display a panda outside of China costs $1 million a year and the animals still belong to China. If this is true, perhaps they'd just be lowering that cost a bit?

Plus any cubs born go back to China when they are between 3 and 5 and there's a fee for each one born. Atlanta just sent their 5 and 3 year old over to China so that they can be part of the breeding program.

I would love to see them. One concern about Florida is they don't do well in heat since they are native to the mountains, they would have to have an inside exhibit.

 

[EpicBilynn]

I am a zoo fan, and Panda's seem to be the biggest draw in zoos. Everywhere they are located, Pandas are the headliner for that zoo. For years we went to DC to the National Zoo and Ling Ling and Sing Sing were the big draws everyone wanted to see. They made the news regularly and when one died it made the national news. Big, adorable, and very rare. Now, of course, they won't be everybody's cup of tea, nothing is. But as far as animals in a zoo, they are the holy grail.

Best exhibit for Panda's I've seen is at Memphis where you could sit a few inches away from one while he munched bamboo on the other side of the glass in a natural setting.

I would love to see what Disney would do with a Panda encounter! I love their tiger encounter. Best I've ever visited.

But then again, I'm a zoo person and Animal Kingdom is my favorite park.

However, it is all just conjecture. I would love to hear something definitive about this.

I agree. When the government shutdown happened and the panda cam at the National Zoo went dark it was a big enough deal that several national news agencies reported on it. I think pandas would be an amazing addition to AK. There is almost nothing cuter than a panda chewing on some bamboo

 

[Giwreh]

Giant pandas are magnets for zoos. Red pandas, which can be seen more, do not have that appeal ;-)

 

[Giwreh]

If (I quote from somewhere above here) "Disney will only do it as a good financial risk versus benefit, and China will also drive a hard bargain" , then the European (independent) counterpart of Animal Kingdom, namely Pairi Daiza in Belgium, had no need to negociate a long time for such business deal constructions. The sheer quality of the Pairi Daiza theme park, convinced the Chinese officials at once.

Pandas arrived in februari.
On the picture also :
President of China Xi Jinping and his wife Peng Liyuan, king Filip and queen Mathilde of Belgium (Kings and queens have no last name ;-) )
Sorry AK, we were first, unless first negociations started later !

 

[Giwreh]

I think it is a very correct remark, somewhere higher up here as well, that the hot climate of Florida constitutes a negative decisionmaking factor for the Chinese authorities, in granting Panda-lease !
Indoors cooled spaces would not provide an alternative solution, because the set rules include the provision of all day use, large outdoors quality habitat for the Pandas. It is not that they would be "unhealthy" in shelter, it is that the breeding chances then are ZERO.
The Chinese panda-lease rules, aim at the highest degree of chances into reproduction. Eat, play, frolic aronund ... happy Panda's make babies !!

By the way,
A few members in this discussion wondered how much would be the INVESTMENT in Pandas ?
I have the aproximate (yet correct in magnitude) COST for having these Panda's :
The lease contract = 15 years. (After those fifteen years, a contract renewal could be made with new, young adult pandas.)
The combined cost for that 15 year lease + the investment in building the habitat and housing, in case of Pairi Daiza, was approximately 10 million Euro (about $ 13,4 M)
Does not include the daily maintenance costs.
Now, "best news", into ROI.
The Pairi Daiza theme park is on the stock market. The one-stock share value, rose from € 22 to € 51, in just ONE year time now, from the moment shareholders heared the news the Panda deal was signed.
Park attendance RISE in 2014 over 2013, until now, accounts for + 100,000 visitors, due to the pandas (non official, will get official numbers in spring 2015), which would roughly constitute € 2,7 million extra revenue in 2014 (guess, until now, mid summer) on the ticketing alone.
Disney Paris stock share value, is still disastrous low. Perhaps, Disney really needs a Panda or 2 ...

Exercise : If the attendance rise due to the Panda-investment would just be 125,000 , this would be € 3,37 M ROI / year, over 15 years => roughly € 50 M ROI on € 10 M investment.
Abstraction made of:
Taxes (goes both ways, add with revenue, deduct with investment spendings, the magnitude of balance over ROI will not be far out of the initial %, only lump sum different)
(-) the maintenance costs ,
(-) inflation rate and bank loan costs (loans max 5 years) ,
(+) add-on customer spendings (catering & merchandise in the park and off premises as well) ,
(-) % of attendance lowering effect, after 2-3 years : typically, novelty top curve lowers 10-50% after years.
(+++) HOWEVER, when a panda cub gets born, it could provoke a + 100-300% rise over initial top !!... and, it's what they aim for !

Hope, I delivered to satisfaction some real reality feasibility insight in such a theme park investment project ?

Cheers

 

[DebbieB]

I think it is a very correct remark, somewhere higher up here as well, that the hot climate of Florida constitutes a negative decisionmaking factor for the Chinese authorities, in granting Panda-lease !
Indoors cooled spaces would not provide an alternative solution, because the set rules include the provision of all day use, large outdoors quality habitat for the Pandas. It is not that they would be "unhealthy" in shelter, it is that the breeding chances then are ZERO.

The Chinese panda-lease rules, aim at the highest degree of chances into reproduction. Eat, play, frolic aronund ... happy Panda's make babies !!

The pandas in Atlanta spend most of their time indoors, especially in the summer. They have bred 5 cubs (through artificial insemination).