Paid FP options coming soon to WDW?

[DisneyisaBLAST]

I would be super sad if this happened because we dont have a blue card we rent our dvc points. But I guess this could be another direct purchase perk. Resale market might go way down and that might be a bonus for Disney

The value of direct pricing is directly tied to the resale market. Hurt the resale market too much and the value of direct DVC goes way down. If I know my DVC contract is worth much less should I need to or want to resell it at some point, I'm much less willing to pay the prices DVC wants for a direct contract. This is one main reason I won't ever buy a Riviera contract - because of it's devaluing resale restrictions. It could also be a factor in why its sales appear slower than previous DVC offerings, even before COVID-19. That's a whole other thread though.

With that said, I personally like the idea of offering some sort of included "Lightning Pass" benefit to Deluxe/Direct DVC owners. Alternatively, I'd also welcome a 50% discount for the "unlimited" plan if for some reason that wasn't what was included in the Deluxe/Direct DVC offering, assuming the final price ended up being <$50 a day/pp.

I'm cool with the "unlimited" plan allowing everything once per day. I'm not okay with an "unlimited" plan that excludes any e-ticket that has been open longer than a year. Universal has had that nonsense with some of the Harry Potter stuff and other rides IIRC and it makes it way less appealing. Like if Disney wants to exclude Guardians of the Galaxy for a year when it first opens, fine. If it wants to exclude it 3 years later, not okay.

 

[kristenabelle]

I wouldn't be surprised if there was a paid version of FP, but the pricing disparity between MaxPass ($20/person/day, I think?) and this is a little ridiculous...even if you double MaxPass to $40/person/day (2 parks versus 4 parks), it's a significant difference from $100 and especially $300. And MaxPass is a pretty well liked program. I'm not sure it would be if the cost was so steep.

 

[Liquidice]

If this was progressively cheaper the more days you went the way the regular tickets are so that all this does is **double** the ticket costs maybe this is palatable enough to a large enough segment that the profits they make make up for the people who will be disgusted and won’t come or won’t come back. But if this is really $100-$300 per person per day for every day, to ride the damned rides you are already paying $100 per person per day for, then this is going to flop big time and hurt their business. This isn’t comparable to Universal at all. I would guess that the vast majority of their peopel don’t buy the passes, or do only if they are staying for a day or two. Everyone else gets them through the hotels. For those saying this prices out the poor... Disney already prices out the poor. This prices out middle class.

I think Disney could go a few different ways - they could make this an "elite" option to skip the line, similar to how VIP Tours get to skip the line right now. The price will be extravagant because they don't want most people to pick the option, instead they will have an alternative option for free like a Virtual Line option, which may be sort of like FastPass+ but keeps the Standby line shorter for popular lines and rides with lower ride capacity.

Another option is it is expensive and given free to Deluxe Resort guests like Universal does. This could still keep the fast line relatively short so it doesn't kill standby times and increase deluxe resort reservations.

I think no matter what - the pricing for Lightning Pass would be date based like tickets and probably gets cheaper the longer you stay.

This system would absolutely also destroy demand for their value and moderate resorts. Last I checked, they have a lot of those rooms to fill...

I don't think it destroys demand for value / moderate resorts - there are those who simply can't afford $500 a night for a hotel room to get a "free" Lightning Pass. If this was the case, Universal wouldn't have just built the Endless Summer resort which is their Value resort, they would have built another $500/night resort with free Express Pass.

If anything, it allows people who can afford it and believe they are getting a better value with an extra perk up into the Deluxe resorts and then allows those who can't afford or don't believe they're getting added value to stay at value / moderate resorts.

Disney is dealing with a unique problem in that the parks pre-COVID were often extremely crowded year round. Guest experience scores were going down due to overcrowding and raising prices were not solving the problem. This may cause some people to stop going to Disney, but they're going to have other people behind them waiting in line willing to pay extra. Like mackmack said, this is fueled by IP purchases like Star Wars, Marvel, Fox, etc.

Pre-COVID, Disney was already looking at ways to reduce overcrowding in the parks by charging more. Something like Lightning Pass doesn't solve it, but it could provide for a better guest experience for those willing to pay extra.

Its an unfortunate truth that Disney isn't hurting for guests - they have the opposite problem - too many guests and so they need to figure out ways to solve the problem.

Sure they could over-index on that and suddenly find out they need more guests - but I'm sure a free dining plan promotion here or there would solve that problem - and Disney can adjust over time until it works out the way they want.

 

[Rosanne]

What this latest bit of doom and misunderstanding does is ignore that FP is also a functional management tool for WDW. It does help mitigate wait times and does allow guests to get some degree of benefit built into their ticket purchase.

The only way one thinks the Lightning Pass is a possibility is if you're willing to think Disney views its parks the way Six Flag views its, as a daily destination for locals rather than a resort with these parks attached. I think WDW is more concerned with the resort aspects of the destination than daily attendance.

And, with the amount of money that is spent on a WDW vacation, I think there are resort guests that wouldn't balk at all $100/pp/pd. The last thing WDW wants is the optics of some people going over and over and over again while others wait in line -- the worse optics WDW could have would be a family seeing someone go through the line after seeing them go through the line before. So I don't think we'll ever seen anything like that. If they were to offer a Lightning pass, it would be more like the one-time-per-ride thing you see at Universal. And it'll cost at least $300.

I do think there's a chance that WDW will offer additional FPs for a price, but even the optics of that get tricky. Including FPs with a ticket is one things; assigning them a value opens another door I just don't think they'll want to go through. I don't think Disney wants to overtly say what a fast pass is worth, any more than they want to sell fireworks viewing spaces. Those things are add-ons to a desert party, or a club-level stay. Even the VIp tours are tours with a guide. I don't see WDW changing that model.

I bolded the above part I wanted to agree with. I've only been to Universal twice ... once was really a long time ago but the a bit more recent one was about 5-7 years ago. I'll never forget it. My sister had bought myself and my daughters a day pass for the two parks as a surprise and we got there about park opening but after the first ride the waits were sooo long. I remember there was a Cat and the Hat ride and we entered the line because it was posted as 20 minutes. I don't remember how long it ended up being but more like 45 minutes to two hours. I remember seeing the same family riding it over and over as we stood there and watched because they had the kind of pass that was always front of the line. It was like that on the other couple of rides we tried. We'd see the same people over and over while we waited.

I decided that our tickets paid for the upkeep of the park but the front of the line type tickets (or with resort stay) paid for actual fun.

I haven't been back. I could stay at one of the hotels that let you ride over and over but I just think the disparity is too extreme.

 

[afan]

There's an entire thread about paid fp that's already talking about this.

 

[mshanson3121]

I wouldn't be surprised if there was a paid version of FP, but the pricing disparity between MaxPass ($20/person/day, I think?) and this is a little ridiculous...even if you double MaxPass to $40/person/day (2 parks versus 4 parks), it's a significant difference from $100 and especially $300. And MaxPass is a pretty well liked program. I'm not sure it would be if the cost was so steep.

Max pass is completely different though. Max pass isn't FP+. All it gets you is the ability to book FP+ in the park (and your photos). That's it. FP is still free.

 

[0FF TO NEVERLAND]

The fact that some people are trying to justify actually spending that kinda of money on those passes, is the reason Disney will do it. They know people will never stop coming to Disney and they know people will figure out a way to pay for it. It's sad really. Instead of thanking us for even coming back to their home, as the first place we all wanna go after a horrible year, they figure they can just take more of our money, for a still watered down experience. Lets say it was free at a deluxe resort. You can also make the case that people who actually stay at a deluxe, can afford those passes. Its the people who just wanna bring their kids to Disney for a nice time that will be severely affected. The pop centuries, the values, etc

Paying 100-300 pp per day for something we got for free

No thanks.

Either way, I have my own little bet going on that fast pass and fireworks will be announced by Friday. Thats a bet with myself ;]

 

[luv2cheer92]

I bolded the above part I wanted to agree with. I've only been to Universal twice ... once was really a long time ago but the a bit more recent one was about 5-7 years ago. I'll never forget it. My sister had bought myself and my daughters a day pass for the two parks as a surprise and we got there about park opening but after the first ride the waits were sooo long. I remember there was a Cat and the Hat ride and we entered the line because it was posted as 20 minutes. I don't remember how long it ended up being but more like 45 minutes to two hours. I remember seeing the same family riding it over and over as we stood there and watched because they had the kind of pass that was always front of the line. It was like that on the other couple of rides we tried. We'd see the same people over and over while we waited.

I decided that our tickets paid for the upkeep of the park but the front of the line type tickets (or with resort stay) paid for actual fun.

I haven't been back. I could stay at one of the hotels that let you ride over and over but I just think the disparity is too extreme.

I mean, not disagreeing, but I've done that with FP+ at WDW before. There have been many times where I've had a FP for a ride, gone through the ride, then immediately got a FP for that ride that was for 5 minutes away and did it again. Sometimes I've done rides 3-4 times in a row with FP while the line was an hour long. Though in that case I don't feel bad, because FP was free and others could easily be doing exactly what I was doing without having to fork over all that money like at Universal.

I will say, I've gotten express pass several times at Universal before, and it's never been anywhere near as fast as FP. It reduces the wait, but it's not been as convenient as FP for me.

 

[Meglen]

Paying 100-300 pp per day for something we got for free

No thanks.

If it was a paid service it would not be just a fp+ clone. It would have to be a any ride at least once at anytime. Not a get up at 6am to book a weeks worth of fast passes. I used fp+ to my advantage and got many more than 3 a day but I feel like even if fp comes back they wont let you get more than 3 anymore. Would make a paid version obsolete.

 

[AnnaKristoff2013]

Its an unfortunate truth that Disney isn't hurting for guests - they have the opposite problem - too many guests and so they need to figure out ways to solve the problem.

I really just find it incredibly unlikely that there are Disney execs sitting around saying “You know what our problem is? Too many customers!!! Let’s figure out a way to drive some of them away!” The goal of differential pricing wasn’t to drive customers away. It was to smooth out attendance by driving customers away from high attendance times and towards low attendance times.

 

[AnnaKristoff2013]

I mean, not disagreeing, but I've done that with FP+ at WDW before. There have been many times where I've had a FP for a ride, gone through the ride, then immediately got a FP for that ride that was for 5 minutes away and did it again.

The difference though is that the person standing in line could have done the same thing you did, at no cost. Maybe seeing you go through over and over again would motivate them to say “hmm, I wonder how he’s doing that?” Then they search on google, and voila, next day or next time they go they can do the same thing.

 

[erin1715]

The fact that some people are trying to justify actually spending that kinda of money on those passes, is the reason Disney will do it. They know people will never stop coming to Disney and they know people will figure out a way to pay for it. It's sad really. Instead of thanking us for even coming back to their home, as the first place we all wanna go after a horrible year, they figure they can just take more of our money, for a still watered down experience. Lets say it was free at a deluxe resort. You can also make the case that people who actually stay at a deluxe, can afford those passes. Its the people who just wanna bring their kids to Disney for a nice time

The fact that some people are trying to justify actually spending that kinda of money on those passes, is the reason Disney will do it. They know people will never stop coming to Disney and they know people will figure out a way to pay for it. It's sad really. Instead of thanking us for even coming back to their home, as the first place we all wanna go after a horrible year, they figure they can just take more of our money, for a still watered down experience. Lets say it was free at a deluxe resort. You can also make the case that people who actually stay at a deluxe, can afford those passes. Its the people who just wanna bring their kids to Disney for a nice time that will be severely affected. The pop centuries, the values, etc

Paying 100-300 pp per day for something we got for free

No thanks.

Either way, I have my own little bet going on that fast pass and fireworks will be announced by Friday. Thats a bet with myself ;]

Can we also add total removal of masks to that announcement by Friday

 

[afan]

I mean, not disagreeing, but I've done that with FP+ at WDW before. There have been many times where I've had a FP for a ride, gone through the ride, then immediately got a FP for that ride that was for 5 minutes away and did it again. Sometimes I've done rides 3-4 times in a row with FP while the line was an hour long. Though in that case I don't feel bad, because FP was free and others could easily be doing exactly what I was doing without having to fork over all that money like at Universal.

I will say, I've gotten express pass several times at Universal before, and it's never been anywhere near as fast as FP. It reduces the wait, but it's not been as convenient as FP for me.

I've done that before on TSMM towards close and only stopped because fp stopped due to it being too close to close. I'm sure I walked by some of the same people all 4 times too.

 

[luv2cheer92]

The difference though is that the person standing in line could have done the same thing you did, at no cost. Maybe seeing you go through over and over again would motivate them to say “hmm, I wonder how he’s doing that?” Then they search on google, and voila, next day or next time they go they can do the same thing.

If you had quoted my whole post, I said the exact same thing.

 

[DOrlo]

I think Disney could go a few different ways - they could make this an "elite" option to skip the line, similar to how VIP Tours get to skip the line right now. The price will be extravagant because they don't want most people to pick the option, instead they will have an alternative option for free like a Virtual Line option, which may be sort of like FastPass+ but keeps the Standby line shorter for popular lines and rides with lower ride capacity.

Another option is it is expensive and given free to Deluxe Resort guests like Universal does. This could still keep the fast line relatively short so it doesn't kill standby times and increase deluxe resort reservations.

I think no matter what - the pricing for Lightning Pass would be date based like tickets and probably gets cheaper the longer you stay.



I don't think it destroys demand for value / moderate resorts - there are those who simply can't afford $500 a night for a hotel room to get a "free" Lightning Pass. If this was the case, Universal wouldn't have just built the Endless Summer resort which is their Value resort, they would have built another $500/night resort with free Express Pass.

If anything, it allows people who can afford it and believe they are getting a better value with an extra perk up into the Deluxe resorts and then allows those who can't afford or don't believe they're getting added value to stay at value / moderate resorts.

Disney is dealing with a unique problem in that the parks pre-COVID were often extremely crowded year round. Guest experience scores were going down due to overcrowding and raising prices were not solving the problem. This may cause some people to stop going to Disney, but they're going to have other people behind them waiting in line willing to pay extra. Like mackmack said, this is fueled by IP purchases like Star Wars, Marvel, Fox, etc.

Pre-COVID, Disney was already looking at ways to reduce overcrowding in the parks by charging more. Something like Lightning Pass doesn't solve it, but it could provide for a better guest experience for those willing to pay extra.

Its an unfortunate truth that Disney isn't hurting for guests - they have the opposite problem - too many guests and so they need to figure out ways to solve the problem.

Sure they could over-index on that and suddenly find out they need more guests - but I'm sure a free dining plan promotion here or there would solve that problem - and Disney can adjust over time until it works out the way they want.

I'm with you on most of this until you factor in the fact that they keep building more resorts and expanding the benefits to the hotels. This would be counterproductive to lowering the crowds. personally, I believe the only way to reduce the crowds is to build a 5th gate. At the end of the day people will keep paying for Disney, I'm guilty of this as well. I don't believe they care about the crowds. They are a business and this is basic supply and demand. The demand is there so they'll keep raising the prices until the demand drops and they find that breaking point.

 

[lovethesun12]

Sorry, I've been trying to stop laughing so I could express my thoughts here. WDW can't really think families on extended 10-14 day vacations (deluxe resort/dining plans/etc) that are already paying 1k+ a day are planning to stick around and visit if they have to pay an extra $4000-$12000(!!!!!!) for a similar vacation to 2019 (and that's not even counting hotel, tickets, dining, and flight increases).

If WDW thinks that's best, I hope they go for it. Good for them. I'll watch from universal as they are figuring their things out and see how it settles. I'll be one of the guests they are reducing and that's cool.

The only reason I haven't stayed at universal yet is because they don't offer magical express (free), 10-14 day park tickets and dining plan for a similar cost as WDW (and I do enjoy WDW so haven't bothered to make it work there considering the price similarity). Buying an extra set of tickets at universal is doable if I can stay at a deluxe there, get the express pass for free and have the savings of ditching the dining plan, 12k+ disney FP+ upcharge, and extra events we do like BBB.

 

[glocon]

If wdw gave the same perk as uo to deluxe guests, then maybe the fp would be more similar to the uo ep in that it shortens the line by at least half, but isn't as fast as fp. Giving the free fp to all of deluxe resort goers would substantially increase wait times in the fp line is my thought. It wouldn't be the same as it was before. Wdw is just so much bigger. They really need another park. Not a water park or mini golf, but a theme park.

 

[DebbieB]

This guy has a very good track record and I know for a fact he has imagineer friends. He does admit this is only a rumor and mostly because even the execs have not decided on what to do. The fact they are internally even talking about this is enough to know the changes are coming.

Sometimes I think they intentionally “float” rumors to see what the reaction will be.

 

[mackmack]

I really just find it incredibly unlikely that there are Disney execs sitting around saying “You know what our problem is? Too many customers!!! Let’s figure out a way to drive some of them away!”

No, and Chapek literally stated something to this effect(listing least desirable to most desirable guests during an earnings call, AP's were the bottom of the list), their problem is the KIND of customers. Any way you slice it they are going to fill the parks to the point where it is uncomfortable and hinders the experience for those who do attend with long lines. Doesn't matter what they end up with, that is the new normal.

So, yes, their problem is they have to too many customers who are not spending the kind of money Disney knows they can get. Getting rid of AP's, Pushing new revenue on this lightning pass are ways to weed out the low money makers. This is reality now and honestly whether any of us like it or not it's going to net their shareholders way more money than what they had been doing. Remove all the emotion and the fact that you love Mickey Mouse and you love taking pictures of your kids on dumbo,etc... the entire DisneyWorld site exists for one reason and one reason only M O N E Y Walt's vision flew out the window probably 20 years ago. This is a business.

 

[lovethesun12]

No, and Chapek literally stated something to this effect(listing least desirable to most desirable guests during an earnings call, AP's were the bottom of the list), their problem is the KIND of customers. Any way you slice it they are going to fill the parks to the point where it is uncomfortable and hinders the experience for those who do attend with long lines. Doesn't matter what they end up with, that is the new normal.

So, yes, their problem is they have to too many customers who are not spending the kind of money Disney knows they can get. Getting rid of AP's, Pushing new revenue on this lightning pass are ways to weed out the low money makers. This is reality now and honestly whether any of us like it or not it's going to net their shareholders way more money than what they had been doing. Remove all the emotion and the fact that you love Mickey Mouse and you love taking pictures of your kids on dumbo,etc... the entire DisneyWorld site exists for one reason and one reason only M O N E Y Walt's vision flew out the window probably 20 years ago. This is a business.

True but there's a chance they will drive away customers that *do* pay the kind of money they like to get as well.