Owners: would you recommend DVC right now?

[quandrea]

I wouldn’t buy now. Too expensive and too long to break even. We bought in 2008 when the cad dollar was above par with the usd. Added on resale at $60 pp. could never achieve those circumstances now. Dvc has been very good for us and continues to be good. Right now we aren’t getting any use of the membership, but that will pass. For now, I’m renting, thankfully. But sadly, I can’t say I’d buy today, nor would I recommend it.

 

[limace]

I wouldn’t buy now-as others have said, too much in flux. We love our GCV points and are mainly DL folks, so the WDW changes are less important to us (we have a blue card but have never bought/needed an AP at either park, for instance). But we stayed at Bomnet Creek in May and I thought then that if you are someone who drives to the parks-rental car, drive down-and if you are not a rope dropper-I wouldn’t stay onsite. There really is no benefit to an on-site stay if you are in those categories.

 

[scoobdoo]

For current members, knowing about this mess (and thinking back to a few years ago when they tried to screw owners over in a similar way but were called out on it), would you still recommend buying DVC now?

Actually, no. We've only been owners for a month but things were so different even then. We had a silver bullet vaccine and WDW and DL were fully open for business. Fast forward a few weeks and the media fear machine is in full operation and mask mandates are back. I'm planning on banking points because I refuse to spend one dollar for a vacation in which I have to wear a mask walking across my hotel lobby but not shoulder to shoulder watching fireworks. That is the antithesis of 'welcome home' for me.

 

[CarolynFH]

We still love Disney, but even more, we love that our adult kids and their kids love to come here with us. I keep the Disney shenanigans away from them. They just get the magic.

We're pretty much in the same boat. Our buy-in cost for DVC is a sunk cost, long since gone from our budget, so for the cost of dues we can get some lovely, relaxing vacations. We don't spend all our time in the parks anymore, either. And we have always had other opportunities to travel to other places, so Disney isn't and has never been our only vacation spot. We're happy we have it as a place to stay that is like home to us and can share it with our family from time to time.

That said, no, I wouldn't recommend DVC to young families now. I'd recommend looking into other timeshare systems to see whether a diversity of destinations fits them better but to consider carefully whether a timeshare is the best choice for them at all.

 

[DVChris]

FWIW, we are new to DVC and after a lot of research, spreadsheets and thinking about future family vacations, we are in escrow to buy two contracts.
Our thought is that inflation will likely start to slowly increase over time and hotel costs will likely climb faster. I also think DVC loosely follow the real estate market which tends to go up over the long term. Also you can't forget that millennials are finally starting to have families. This is the largest generation now and many are learning about DVC (my brother and I included).
If you look at threads in past years, many comment that the prices were too high to buy then but when you ask if anyone has regrets today, many say they wish they had bought sooner. Good luck!

 

[ProudMommyof2]

This thread is very helpful.
We are finally in a position to make this move, after years of renting points.
But, prices are too high for what you are getting. Losing Magical Express is big for me. Ticket prices are out of control and now it looks like they may charge for Fastpass. I have always tried to think of TCO when buying a car, it’s time here too.
You practically have to have a Master’s degree in Disney to know how to have a decent day in the parks, and even then it’s iffy.
I think we will wait and see what 2022 brings for DVC and Disney.

 

[jodifla]

We bought 25 years ago and financed. We quickly understood that we would be seating in the cat bird's seat, because DVC prices were going nowhere but up. So even with financing costs we made out like bandits. At this point I wouldn't buy, knowing what I know now and watching the prices. The rule is buy low, and DVC prices just aren't at the right point for buyers like us now.

But we love our DVC and are so glad we bought when we did and didn't listen to the "you can't afford DVC if you have to finance it" bull.

We had our cake and ate it, too.

 

[zavandor]

I'm pretty much the only one here who thinks this, but the "points discrepancy" is, in my opinion, a nonsense conspiracy theory cooked up by people who don't have all of the relevant data.

Why do YOU say that? Have you crunched the numbers to demonstrate the point discrepancy didn't exist?

Point charts in 2020 were increased due to a loophole which we thought was illegal. When challenged DVCMC rolled back the change.

DVCMC retained tax refunds from resale purchasers for years. It was thought illegal by a member who challenged DVCMC and they rolled it back, issueing refunds.

The 2022 point charts were inflated due to the new seasons. DVCMC has been challenged and they have declared they're going to publish new charts to correct it.

Those are facts.

Now, let's hear your facts.

 

[we"reofftoneverland]

I'm pretty much the only one here who thinks this, but the "points discrepancy" is, in my opinion, a nonsense conspiracy theory cooked up by people who don't have all of the relevant data.

I have some oceanfront property to sell you in Iowa.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Why do YOU say that? Have you crunched the numbers to demonstrate the point discrepancy didn't exist?

Point charts in 2020 were increased due to a loophole which we thought was illegal. When challenged DVCMC rolled back the change.

DVCMC retained tax refunds from resale purchasers for years. It was thought illegal by a member who challenged DVCMC and they rolled it back, issueing refunds.

The 2022 point charts were inflated due to the new seasons. DVCMC has been challenged and they have declared they're going to publish new charts to correct it.

Those are facts.

Now, let's hear your facts.

This group has a fundamental misunderstanding of what a "base year" is and how it works. All of the "analysis" that has been done is based on year-over-year changes rather than year-versus-base-year changes. Everything is within the tolerance of what's permitted in terms of variance against base year.

When they've given in and reversed decisions, it's not because you busted them doing something wrong, it's because they're caving to the membership having temper tantrums. The membership is actually preventing them from doing their jobs, which is to attempt to balance demand over the course of the year. Wonder why it's impossible to book a resort in October but super easy to get one in March? It's because the price seasons are out of whack relative to demand, but every time they take baby steps to try and correct it, the membership has a fit and pressures them to abandon the changes. Usually, it's people crying and claiming that their initial contract entitles them to be able to book a week at Old Key West in October for the life of their contract (it doesn't) and that any points increase is unfair (it isn't). This whole "points discrepancy" issue is just an elaborate version of that same complaint.

 

[zavandor]

This group has a fundamental misunderstanding of what a "base year" is and how it works. All of the "analysis" that has been done is based on year-over-year changes rather than year-versus-base-year changes.

For the 2020 point charts the UY didn't have any effect, the issue was the lockoff premium and the reallocation across different unit type. So I guess you're referring to the 2022 chart.
DVCMC has actually stated that the Base UY is used only when the resort opens, later for reallocation the "minimum year" is used, a different concept. Since you're referring still to "Base Year" it's maybe you who is not really up to date with the latest DVCMC definitions.
I<3Riviera made a very in depth analysis of the minimum year and by DVCMC own admission (in a call I made with the Head of regulatory affairs and the person responsible for the point charts) it is true that the 2022 charts had an excess of points and that they preferred to leave it as it is because otherwise it would be confusing ( !!!!!! ) for members to adopt mitigating solutions. They told later to others they would instead apply those to the new point charts to be published in August.

Everything is within the tolerance of what's permitted in terms of variance against base year.

How can you be so sure? Can you please link to the law or court sentence that defines what is the permitted variance?

When they've given in and reversed decisions, it's not because you busted them doing something wrong, it's because they're caving to the membership having temper tantrums.

Risible.
Do you really believe on of the biggest corporations in America caves in because 2 dozen people have complained with members services? They rolled back changes that could give tens of millions in revenues every year.
Should I prepare for the come back of FP+, DME, evening EMH for all and all the rides that people (hundreds of thousands people, in some cases) have complained about?

The membership is actually preventing them from doing their jobs, which is to attempt to balance demand over the course of the year.

We didn't complain about seasonal reallocation, we complained for the fact they did it in a way that inflated the point charts.

Usually, it's people crying and claiming that their initial contract entitles them to be able to book a week at Old Key West in October for the life of their contract (it doesn't) and that any points increase is unfair (it isn't). This whole "points discrepancy" issue is just an elaborate version of that same complaint.

You couldn't be more wrong.
The point chart changes that are going to be published in August (if they actually do it) will NOT revert the change in points reallocations across seasons. It's too late for that, because reservations for most of the year have been already booked. People complaining about not being able to book as many days they were used to in their favorite time of the year are being ignored altogether (rightly so), which disproves your point that people tantrum is forcing them to roll back.
The point discrepancy is real and the complains raised to DVCMC Regulatory Affairs are based on math and Florida Timeshare law.

 

[miTnosnhoJ]

Do any members ever go to the association meetings and bring these things up? Are they even allowed to?

The Association Meetings are not really set up as a vehicle for change. All voting members of the Association are appointed by Disney, and they only vote on things that Disney puts on the agenda. It appears to be a device to ensure that Disney follows the legal requirements, but it is not an actual decision making body - and it is not a vehicle for accountability to the members. There is a brief time for Q and A. But at least half that time seems to contain questioners praising DVC for something or other In a long-winded way.

 

[RoseGold]

The charts are high school math. You can do it yourself if you don’t like the spreadsheets.

Start with Poly, where the room categories are obvious.

 

[paults]

We bought in 2002 and would never buy at the prices they have now. That is just us. Many people will buy at any price just to go to Disney.

 

[Travel60]

Long time owner, recently added points, total 1200. But having doubts. I'm currently reading Lights Out: Pride, Delusion and the Fall of General Electric. I'm finding some parallels between GE then and Disney now. Management has lost its focus

 

[Suzabella]

We were considering adding on but some of the decisions Disney has made in the past couple years as a company have given us pause. The points kerfuffle is forefront. Our trust in their willingness to honor a legally binding contract is gone and if they'd stoop that low....anything is on the table.

I wouldn't buy now. Not with this leadership making these kind of decisions.

 

[BillPA]

I agree with Suzabella. In the process of selling most of my contracts.

 

[crisi]

Long time owner, recently added points, total 1200. But having doubts. I'm currently reading Lights Out: Pride, Delusion and the Fall of General Electric. I'm finding some parallels between GE then and Disney now. Management has lost its focus

To play devils advocate, Disney has lost its focus many times over its corporate life. The late 70s and early 80s were a great example. And then Disney had new life breathed into it. If I were buying stock - I wouldn't buy it now, its way too high, but if it takes a crash, I'd bet on Disney. I've done it before and its been very good to me. But betting on Disney as a corporation with a few thousand dollars and pre-buying vacations at their theme parks for tens of thousands that I consider "vacation dollars" - and then spending more in theme park tickets and expensive sub-par dining are two very different things. I can let a few thousand dollars sit waiting for a rebound on stock (SOMEDAY, Tesco will bounce back for me - if it doesn't I don't think me initial investment was more than $1000). Next year I want to be able to vacation, and I want that vacation to bring me value and joy. Disney theme parks have a tough sell there compared to where else I spend my vacation dollars right now - crowds, pandemic, quality issues, and a lot of "been there done that."

We haven't reached selling point yet - in part because we enjoy Hilton Head in February when its cold here in Minnesota. In part because we only have 150 points, so an every other year DVC vacation is fine - if that's HHI or Aulani, that's fine (Hawaii isn't my favorite island, and I wouldn't buy for Aulani, but the points are there) And there are more park trips in our future - my husband needs the Star Wars experience yet. But we might hit the parks every six to ten years.

 

[hexfetton]

For the 2020 point charts the UY didn't have any effect, the issue was the lockoff premium and the reallocation across different unit type. So I guess you're referring to the 2022 chart.
DVCMC has actually stated that the Base UY is used only when the resort opens, later for reallocation the "minimum year" is used, a different concept. Since you're referring still to "Base Year" it's maybe you who is not really up to date with the latest DVCMC definitions.
I<3Riviera made a very in depth analysis of the minimum year and by DVCMC own admission (in a call I made with the Head of regulatory affairs and the person responsible for the point charts) it is true that the 2022 charts had an excess of points and that they preferred to leave it as it is because otherwise it would be confusing ( !!!!!! ) for members to adopt mitigating solutions. They told later to others they would instead apply those to the new point charts to be published in August.


How can you be so sure? Can you please link to the law or court sentence that defines what is the permitted variance?



Risible.
Do you really believe on of the biggest corporations in America caves in because 2 dozen people have complained with members services? They rolled back changes that could give tens of millions in revenues every year.
Should I prepare for the come back of FP+, DME, evening EMH for all and all the rides that people (hundreds of thousands people, in some cases) have complained about?


We didn't complain about seasonal reallocation, we complained for the fact they did it in a way that inflated the point charts.


You couldn't be more wrong.
The point chart changes that are going to be published in August (if they actually do it) will NOT revert the change in points reallocations across seasons. It's too late for that, because reservations for most of the year have been already booked. People complaining about not being able to book as many days they were used to in their favorite time of the year are being ignored altogether (rightly so), which disproves your point that people tantrum is forcing them to roll back.
The point discrepancy is real and the complains raised to DVCMC Regulatory Affairs are based on math and Florida Timeshare law.

I agree with @CaptainAmerica and @Sandisw. Much ado about nothing. There isn’t enough information to figure out anything and people are just reacting because their vacations went up. Anyone can cook up numbers. DVC is encouraging the temper tantrums by backing down.

 

[crisi]

I agree with @CaptainAmerica and @Sandisw. Much ado about nothing. There isn’t enough information to figure out anything and people are just reacting because their vacations went up. Anyone can cook up numbers. DVC is encouraging the temper tantrums by backing down.

There is actually plenty of information - as was said, its basic math. You can do the math on the number of rooms and points per night. The number of points sold per resort is in the documentation. The terms of the contract and timeshare law is also available.

The math is more complex when you have a resort with a lot of lockoffs - and there is some room for Disney to fudge there. But there is no room at all at the Poly, where there are no lockoffs - just studios and the bungalows - those numbers really can't be cooked any more than you can get five out of two plus two. Its easy to prove that Disney was in violation and has been proven.

Moreover, this wasn't done in a way that would benefit the membership - making one bedrooms cheaper and studios more expensive would have changed booking patterns - moving some demand from overbooked studios to underbooked one bedrooms. Likewise, while the 2022 set of changes addresses seasonal demand - the first set really didn't do so adequately. Those wasn't the change they made.

I didn't get involved in it - because it really didn't affect me in any significant way and I have had other things to worry about over the past few years. But the people who did get involved did solid analysis