Owners of Both DVC & Wyndham --Need Input

[lilpooh108]

Hi guys,

Are there any Wyndham owners on this thread that can comment about Wyndham ownership? We own DVC, but we're quickly outgrowing the studios and would love to supplement our stays with Bonnet Creek (via resale).

I recently sold a small BWV contract that was not frequently used. I'd like to use this amount towards an EOY Wyndham contract to use at Bonnet Creek.

Anyway...would love to hear opinions from DIS'ers here who own both DVC and Wyndham. I've spent the last 3 days on TUG, asking questions and reading primers. I understand the basics of Wyndham ownership. I get that there are banking fees, housekeeping credit fees, transaction fees, shuttle fees, etc.

My "plan" is to book Bonnet Creek at 10 months (if I don't buy BC as a home resort) in the allotted use year, and for the off-years borrow w/in 90 days if there is availability to do quickie trips.

I'm still very undecided about which home resort to choose.

Any pitfalls to owning Wyndham? Dislikes about the Wyndham program? Anything to watch out for? Nasty surprises? Comments/thoughts are appreciated.

Thanks!

*************EDITED TO ADD***********

I just found this thread where Dean and JimMIA go through a ton of detail on this same topic, for anyone else looking for these answers: http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=2691903&highlight=wyndham&page=4

 

[sweetdana]

I thought/ researched sold myself on the same thing. Came to the conclusion it is just as cheap to rent, with no risk/ commitment. For Orlando, bc/ Wyndham is beautiful, but rental is the best option.

 

[lilpooh108]

I thought/ researched sold myself on the same thing. Came to the conclusion it is just as cheap to rent, with no risk/ commitment. For Orlando, bc/ Wyndham is beautiful, but rental is the best option.

Thanks! I agree that if I were only buying to use at BC, it is better to just rent. I should have mentioned --- we also own at Aulani and I'd like to supplement our Aulani stays as well. The last time we went to Aulani I paid $2500 for 3 nights in a 2BR on Maui at a "full ownership" resort. It was FABULOUS, but too rich for my blood and frankly, I don't want to pay that every time. We always island hop.

Wyndham has a good portfolio in Hawaii, but I do worry about them being "older" resorts. I think some have been remodeled.

 

[CPTJAK]

I would not confine my choice to wyndham as Marriott/Starwood if very nice Hawaii resorts as well. You could buy Sheraton Vistana Villages or the Arizona resort Westin KV (one that comes with staroptions via resale) and get into Maui and Kauai most times of the year.

 

[lilpooh108]

I would not confine my choice to wyndham as Marriott/Starwood if very nice Hawaii resorts as well. You could buy Sheraton Vistana Villages or the Arizona resort Westin KV (one that comes with staroptions via resale) and get into Maui and Kauai most times of the year.

Thanks! I actually would love to own at Vistana Villages for StarOptions, but the MFs are too high for me. To use staroptions for Cancun or Maui (where we vacation) would mean downsizing to a 1BR or a studio. For that amount, I could easily rent a 1BR at the Westin Lagunamar, which frequently has $99 specials on Bookit.com. For Maui, the studio just won't work for us since we need a full kitchen. I've been tracking Sheraton MFs for 3 years and it just seems to rise very quickly in comparison to what I can afford in 5 years.

I had considered Marriott, but my understanding is that as a resale owner I'd have to deposit the week and trade in II, which I don't know how to do. I also don't feel comfortable with the weeks-system. In fact, it was a Marriott owner on Redweek.com who told me to check out DVC why I contacted him a few years ago about his Marriott timeshare.

Do you own at Marriott? Is it and is II easy for resale owners to use?

 

[CPTJAK]

A 2 bedroom (non lock off) Platinum at SVV mandatory comes with 81,000 staroptions which will get you a 1 bedroom in Maui/Kauai for 7 nights and a 2 bedroom in Cancun depending on the season. The maintenance fees are appx $1200 per year.

At Westin KV a 2 bedroom comes with 148,000 which is equal to a 2 bedroom throughout the starwood system with MFs of 1500.

Yes I own at Marriott Grande Vista, Sheraton Vistana Vill. (used to own Westin KORV-North Maui) Beach Club DVC and soon Boardwalk Villas.

II is a difficult trade to get to Maui, however, the several years Staroptions for WKORV North Maui/CAncun/Kauai was available most of the year, that may change now that more people are going back to Maui.

 

[Daddio]

I use Wyndham points to trade into DVC through RCI. I find the Wyndham resorts (most are former Fairfield properties) extremely noisy. The walls are paper thin. Bonnet Creek is a nice resort but suffers from the same problem.

If Hawaii is your thing, consider Hilton Grand Vacation Club. They have a few nice resorts in Hawaii including the Hilton Hawaiian Village on Waikiki beach.

Marriott might be a good choice to but I don't own and have never stayed at one.

~ David

 

[lilpooh108]

A 2 bedroom (non lock off) Platinum at SVV mandatory comes with 81,000 staroptions which will get you a 1 bedroom in Maui/Kauai for 7 nights and a 2 bedroom in Cancun depending on the season. The maintenance fees are appx $1200 per year.

At Westin KV a 2 bedroom comes with 148,000 which is equal to a 2 bedroom throughout the starwood system with MFs of 1500.

Yes I own at Marriott Grande Vista, Sheraton Vistana Vill. (used to own Westin KORV-North Maui) Beach Club DVC and soon Boardwalk Villas.

II is a difficult trade to get to Maui, however, the several years Staroptions for WKORV North Maui/CAncun/Kauai was available most of the year, that may change now that more people are going back to Maui.

For the mandatory Sheraton Vistana Villages units---are the MFs different depending on the phase?

Is it possible to make less-than-1-week reservations at non-home resorts prior to the 90-day period?

Are MFs for EOY units literally 50% than an annual usage unit?

I use Wyndham points to trade into DVC through RCI. I find the Wyndham resorts (most are former Fairfield properties) extremely noisy. The walls are paper thin. Bonnet Creek is a nice resort but suffers from the same problem.

If Hawaii is your thing, consider Hilton Grand Vacation Club. They have a few nice resorts in Hawaii including the Hilton Hawaiian Village on Waikiki beach.

Marriott might be a good choice to but I don't own and have never stayed at one.

~ David

Thanks David. Do you mind saying which Wyndham you own that successfully deposits enough RCI points to get you DVC? I know some people don't like to disclose these things... Or is the Wyndham points deposit non-resort specific? If it's non-specific, then how many Wyndham points do you need to deposit into RCI in order to snatch up a DVC unit?

 

[CPTJAK]

Yes different phases have different MFs in sheraton vistana villages.

Yes MFs are 1/2 of annual for EOY. However, you pay the Starwood fee every year )appx $135 so the overall cost is higher per use for an EOY.

The forum to go to for non DVC I would reccomend Timeshare User Group.

TUG.org

 

[Daddio]

For the mandatory Sheraton Vistana Villages units---are the MFs different depending on the phase?

Is it possible to make less-than-1-week reservations at non-home resorts prior to the 90-day period?

Are MFs for EOY units literally 50% than an annual usage unit?



Thanks David. Do you mind saying which Wyndham you own that successfully deposits enough RCI points to get you DVC? I know some people don't like to disclose these things... Or is the Wyndham points deposit non-resort specific? If it's non-specific, then how many Wyndham points do you need to deposit into RCI in order to snatch up a DVC unit?

I have Nashville and Ocean Walk but I don't think it matters. I just deposit points and use them when a Disney resort pops up. Depending on time of year I've paid as little as 77,000 points to 154,000 points for a 1 bedroom at BWV and BCV. In the Wyndham system, a one bedroom is usually 154,000 points.

 

[Brian Noble]

I use Wyndham points to trade into DVC through RCI. I find the Wyndham resorts (most are former Fairfield properties) extremely noisy. The walls are paper thin. Bonnet Creek is a nice resort but suffers from the same problem.

Having stayed at Bonnet, it is certainly no worse than some of the DVC lockoff units, where normal levels of conversation can be heard from the other side. I have been awoken in the middle of the night at OKW, but not yet at Bonnet.

I'm sitting in a 2BR at Wyndham Old Town Alexandria as I type this. Very quiet, though we are facing the center courtyard; the portion that is closer to the King Street Metro station gets train noise. Then again, we are a 2 minute walk from the King Street Metro station, and from there an easy trip to anywhere in the District.

The advice earlier is spot on. If you are really only focusing on Bonnet Creek, renting from big-point VIP owners in the 60-day window is probably the way to go. If you have designs on resorts with more demand (like Old Town) then owning isn't a bad idea. I'm not sure if Hawaii is in that set or not; I haven't tracked availability there yet.

 

[Brian Noble]

OP: I would not restrict yourself to EOY deeds. Wyndham has a mechanism similar to banking/borrowing, called the Credit Pool, that gives you quite a bit of flexibility in how you use any year's allocation.

We've really enjoyed our Wyndham (resale) purchase, and I've never regretted it. Our current stay here in DC might be the best one yet.

 

[littlestar]

We're DVC owners and also Wyndham resale points owners. I really like owning my Wyndham points. I like control of my own reservations so I'd rather own my own points. The only negative with Wyndham for me is the aggressive sales force.

We used our Wyndham points to extend our big family winter trip. I booked a 3 bedroom and 2 bedroom at Bonnet Creek after family members checked out of seven night condo stays. Which was great for extending our trip by three days.

We've also used our Wyndham points for Wyndham Waikiki Beachwalk on Oahu. I really, really liked our stay at Wyndham on the beachwalk. That area is gorgeous and I loved how I could just ride the escalators downstairs and stroll over to PF Changs or across the street or around the corner to go shopping. It was super nice and very close to the beach. The top floor units are the best because of the views so if I were going every year to Oahu I'd probably want points deeded at Wyndham Waikiki Beachwalk for priority booking of the upper floor units. Our 10th floor 1 bedroom had a view of the ocean and Diamond Head and the Royal Hawaiian hotel/pink palace. As a DVC owner, our next trip to Hawaii I would like to split my stay between Wyndham Waikiki Beachwalk and Disney's resort at KoOlina. We also own an EOY summer week in the North Carolina mountains that I trade exclusively through Interval International. I would use it to trade to Maui or Kauai to island hop. Maybe the big Island one of these days - haven't been to that island yet.

Our Wyndham home resort is Smoky Mountains at Sevierville - low fees. It's also within a 6 hour drive from home just in case I don't want to fly to take a vacation.

 

[JimMIA]

We're DVC owners and also Wyndham resale points owners. I really like owning my Wyndham points. I like control of my own reservations so I'd rather own my own points. The only negative with Wyndham for me is the aggressive sales force.

Ditto on all counts. The system is great (somewhere over 80 resorts now), but the sales force is incredibly sleezy. But they're not that difficult to avoid -- more of an annoyance, like mosquitos in Florida.

Our Wyndham home resort is Smoky Mountains at Sevierville - low fees. It's also within a 6 hour drive from home just in case I don't want to fly to take a vacation.

That's our home also. Love the MF's there!

On MF's and EOY, it makes a difference. Wyndham's MF's are effectively higher for EOY than annual. If you have a smallish contract, the difference can be significant.

Wyndham/RCI -- home resort does NOT matter with Wyndham. Wyndham trades in RCI on a fixed grid -- same number of points, regardless of your home resort -- no trading power issue.

 

[JimMIA]

Wyndham has a mechanism similar to banking/borrowing, called the Credit Pool, that gives you quite a bit of flexibility in how you use any year's allocation.

Wyndham credit pooling works like this:

• Assuming you buy resale, you 'credit pool' your points PRIOR to the beginning of your Use Year. (For LARGE direct purchases, the rules are more lenient) Most Wyndham contracts are January 1 UY, so you'd credit pool at some point prior to that.
• There's a nominal fee to credit pool...and it's so nominal, I don't remember what it is.
• From the date you credit pool the points, they are available for THREE YEARS. For example, I credit-pooled some points on Dec 19, 2012, so they are valid until Dec 19, 2015.
• Using the familiar DVC banking/borrowing framework, you can also "borrow" using credit-pooling. You can credit-pool points from a future UY for a reservation prior to the start of that UY. The difference would be that the DVC points would expire at the end of the UY they were borrowed into; the Wyndham points would expire three years from the date of credit pooling. Pretty big difference.

 

[lilpooh108]

Wow, thanks to everyone for their responses.

I'm leaning towards a 154K to 168K EOY contract at a low MF resort simply because I am restricting myself to the same out-of-pocket costs per year as my sold Boardwalk contract. I don't want to feel like I'm carrying additional burdens and taking on something I'll regret.

(1) For EOY--I have a question. We like to take 2 short vacations per year. I'm leaning toward a 154K+ EOY because in my understanding, I would get 154 Housekeeping credits a year. This would cover the cost of 2 one-bedroom stays.

If I buy a 68K-ish annual use, then I'd basically would have to pay $153 (68 x $2.25) for housekeeping on a second one-bedroom stay. Is that right? That's why I was going for a 154K+ EOY---to get the "extra" housekeeping credits but to keep my monthly MFs the same.

With a 154K EOY, I think I would also get 2 phone calls/chances at making reservations rather than 1 phone call, right?

Is this logical/correct based on our twice-a-year vacation habits?

(2) Is Waikiki Beach Walk hard to get into at 10 months, for week 50? We own at Aulani, and I'd like to do a 3 night stay in Waikiki before we head over to Aulani.

(3) How much is Wyndham's program fee in addition to the MFs? Are all program fees the same regardless of ownership (resale, lower amt of pts, etc)?

(4) Sleazy TS sales--- that's OK. I usually unplug my room phone, in every TS place we've ever stayed at/rented at. I don't mind the hawking when I'm walking around the lobby. I actually feel bad for them sometimes...it's sort of a crappy job. And of course there's the timeshare salesperson hierarchy. You know, the "booth" guy, the "lobby" guy, and the sales guy. I'll avoid all eye contact. No "owner updates" for me.

(5) JimMIA-- I thought Wyndham "fixed" the extra program fee for EOYs so that effectively, your MFs are divided over 24 months rather than 12. I saw this on TUG. Is this not correct?

(6) Regarding housekeeping credits---if you credit pool, do those transfer? In other words, if I credit pool all 154K one year, do I have 154 housekeeping credits that just float along w/those points?

LittleStar -- we love Hawaii (hence buying into Aulani). This is why we think/hope that Wyndham will work with our needs. With our kids being so young, we're pretty much doing Orlando & Hawaii every year or every other year. We pay out of pocket all the time for hotels to add on to our DVC stays, so a non-DVC TS was the next logical step.

BrianNoble--glad to hear Old Town Alexandria is great. I was looking up that resort on Tripadvisor during my Wyndham research and I think I'd prefer that over National Harbor (location wise). DH is excited about being able to do more East Coast locations when we get out there. Our plan is to fly from CA to a Wyndham East Coast location, then Jetblue or Southwest down to MCO from there for DVC stays. We've always wanted to go back to DC.

Thanks again everyone.

 

[JimMIA]

(1) For EOY--I have a question. We like to take 2 short vacations per year. I'm leaning toward a 154K+ EOY because in my understanding, I would get 154 Housekeeping credits a year. This would cover the cost of 2 one-bedroom stays.

If I buy a 68K-ish annual use, then I'd basically would have to pay $153 (68 x $2.25) for housekeeping on a second one-bedroom stay. Is that right? That's why I was going for a 154K+ EOY---to get the "extra" housekeeping credits but to keep my monthly MFs the same.

Be careful with the wording. Housekeeping credits and reservation transactions go with the points. If you own annual, you get your allocation every year. If you own EOY, you get the allocation every other year when you get your points.

With a 154K EOY, I think I would also get 2 phone calls/chances at making reservations rather than 1 phone call, right?

With 154K EOY, you would get two reservation transactions every other year...NOT every year. With an annual contract, you'd get one reservation transaction for every 77,000 points (or one for a contract of 68K) EVERY year. In your example, either way, you'd have two reservation transactions for each two-year period.

Keep in mind that "reservation transaction" does not mean ONE phone call. One credit covers all reservations you make during one day -- be it one, or a dozen. You can search, find, and book; then search, find, and book again ...and again...and again on the same day -- one credit. I've made as many as 5 reservations on the same day for one credit.

(3) How much is Wyndham's program fee in addition to the MFs? Are all program fees the same regardless of ownership (resale, lower amt of pts, etc)?

I'd have to look it up, but NO the program fees are NOT the same regardless. They are determined by the number of points you have and the specific type of Wyndham ownership you have. There is no distinction between resale/direct, except that there are some types of Wyndham memberships which can only be purchased direct. Those types carry "special benefits" and the program fee is slightly higher to cover those wonderful perks. lmao

There is a minimum annual program fee, so the smaller contracts pay a higher per K rate.

(5) JimMIA-- I thought Wyndham "fixed" the extra program fee for EOYs so that effectively, your MFs are divided over 24 months rather than 12. I saw this on TUG. Is this not correct?

Again, watch the wording.

They may have "fixed" the problem by billing over 24 months in response to the pained outcry from EOY owners. But the key is not when they bill, but how much they charge.

My understanding is that they now charge every contract a program fee every year -- annual or EOY. So as an EOY owner, your total for two years would be your underlying resort MFs for the one year of points + the program fee X 2.

If the program fee is $100, that would effectively raise your total about $.65 per K on a 154 K EOY contract. I think that $100 number is a little high, but even if it works out to only $.60 per K, you're still paying $1.20 per K compared to my $.51 per K because I have a much larger annual contract (501 K).

I don't really follow that particular issue much because it doesn't apply to me, but I think the above is correct. If it's not, someone please correct me.

 

[JimMIA]

(6) Regarding housekeeping credits---if you credit pool, do those transfer? In other words, if I credit pool all 154K one year, do I have 154 housekeeping credits that just float along w/those points?

Yes, it appears so. I credit-pooled a bunch of 2013 points in Dec 2012, and the corresponding HK credits are shown with those points in my 2015 UY.

(Wyndham shows points in order of their expiration date, not by the timeframe when the points may be used...which for these pooled points is now to 12/2015)

 

[Brian Noble]

Yes, they do float along---in fact, I think you are required to have HK that you can place into the pool at the rate of 1 HK per 1,000 points, but I could be wrong about that.

My experience is that I almost always have extra HK credits that expire. The only way to run out is to make lots of short-stay reservations in off-season times and/or at low-point resorts. We tend to go for a week at a time, during peak seasons for the destination in question.

 

[lilpooh108]

Be careful with the wording. Housekeeping credits and reservation transactions go with the points. If you own annual, you get your allocation every year. If you own EOY, you get the allocation every other year when you get your points.

A. BORROWING

Does it cost $$ to borrow during the "off year" for an EOY contract, if the reservation is made w/in the 90-day Express Period?

Are the housekeeping credits borrowed along w/the points that are borrowed?

In other words, other than the Reservation Transaction fee charged for making the reservation during the off-year, is there a separate charge for making a reservation by borrowing points in an off year?

My understanding is the fee in this scenario would be:

(1) Reservation Transaction = $30
(2) Borrowing = $??
(3) Housekeeping credits @ $2.25?

B. EXPRESS RESERVATION PERIOD

If I plan on making a 90-day Express Reservation period reservation during an off year, is it cheaper just to pay $39 to credit pool the points from a prior year?

Hope that makes sense.

Yes, they do float along---in fact, I think you are required to have HK that you can place into the pool at the rate of 1 HK per 1,000 points, but I could be wrong about that.

My experience is that I almost always have extra HK credits that expire. The only way to run out is to make lots of short-stay reservations in off-season times and/or at low-point resorts. We tend to go for a week at a time, during peak seasons for the destination in question.

Thanks Brian. This is why I'm considering an 154K+ EOY. We will be using Wyndham to supplement other stays, and so I don't see myself staying a whole week anywhere. I already know that we'll be eating up those Housekeeping Credits.

We will likely be doing 2 stays per year that we get the points, but I'm trying to figure out whether it's feasible to borrow in the "off years" for a small fee.

My understanding is that Bonnet Creek is usually available 90-days out anyway. We usually go to WDW in early Oct and/or early Dec (low season).