Outside the Box Proposal to Assist Disabled WDW Guests

[cobright]

I'm not saying a thing about GAC or DAS or whatever or complaining about who uses what. This is just a thought experiment to get an idea of what it would take to make the most people happy.

The GAC or DAS program was originally meant as a way to come into compliance with the ADA and provide (within reason) equal access to park features. There is debate about how well is achieves this goal but I will leave that to the side.

Here is my proposal. The ADA allows for special accommodations to be offered on the condition that need for those accommodations are verifiable. Handicap parking is a special privilege and they demand you get a form filled out by a doctor who could face serious sanctions if he commits fraud.

So in addition to the DAS (which I'm not discussing), perhaps WDW sets up a portal for a doctor to validate a request for a special pass for guests with severe mobility or similar constraints. This can be done through unified record keeping like the pharmacies and clinics are setting up. Then WDW sets 3 days a week per park (different days per park but there would be plenty of overlap) and on these days guests with this verified pass receive three 'golden tickets'. All three golden tickets must be used within a 2 or 3 hour window printed on the ticket. Each ticket will have a photo of the guest and a photo of any member of their party who might also ride with them. The golden ticket lets the guest and one member of their party walk to the head of the line like a rockstar.

My premise is that average folks have no problem stepping out of the way and letting a disabled person on ahead of them. I've talked with a load of folks, the kind who gripe the loudest over special lines for the disabled, and none of them have a problem letting someone with a verifiable medical condition go ahead of them in line.

But when 'special access' is being given to anyone who asks for it, the credibility of the system suffers and everyone using it is lumped in together. We've all heard the complaints, and the retorts about invisible disabilities. But the truth is that the old system did provide special advantages and did so without any real controls.

Any program intended to provide relief to those with special needs must still be respected by all guests of the park or else it will only divide people along very bitter emotional lines.

So that's my suggestion. Probably not a perfect one. Will take some doing on the tech end. It won't make everyone happy. But it will go a long way toward guaranteeing at leaste a minimal amount of magic for guests with severe disabilities.

I don't care so much about critiquing this proposal (though... by all means) but if you don't like it, tell me another plan that will address this need better.

 

[OurBigTrip]

I think it's great that you're thinking of ways to make the experience better, but no, I don't agree with the idea of golden tickets or treating a particular guest like a rock star because of their disability, verified or not (WISH trips, etc., excluded).

Make necessary tweaks to the existing system, and then people can work within that, but that's as far as I would go.

 

[Gracie09]

So Disney would have to set up a medical record keeping system that probably would have to comply with hippa. It would have to hire doctors to review medical records and probably find specialists in multiple areas to do so. This is all at disneys expense (and a great expense it would be). What is someone is turned down? So there needs to be an appeals process. Also if the doctor on call is isnt familiar with a persons condition what then? Dh has a condition that only two or three doctor in the country treat full time. Others have heard of it but don't really understand it. So does Disney have to hire one of the two or three who understand his condition to review his records?
All of this to improve a system that is Ada compliant.
It also sets up doctors at home. Now you get parents trying to convince them that their kid needs them to fill out this paperwork. And doctors usually wanting to be the good guy will not see the harm in it will do so. So now you have people that probably shouldn't have this golden ticket having it. My daughter is a good example. She has mild cp and hetrotopria. Her neurologist could fill out the paperwork and send her brain scans because I ask. Because he is a nice guy and would want to make a trip easier for his patient. Not because she couldn't do Disney without the help.

 

[Cheshire Figment]

Check out this thread http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=2959016 about letters.

 

[SueM in MN]

I agree with the other posters.

With the GAC, there were already doctors writing notes for their patients to take to Guest Relations. Some were 'Good guys' like Gracie 09 mentioned, some were unscrupulous who knew there were no disabilities at all. Plenty of people had posted their doctor offered to write a note, knowing they didn't need one and didn't need any special accommodations.
Other people have posted and told me of situations where a doctor wrote a note because of things like "you have six kids and anyone with 6 kids deserves to not have to wait" or "you have 3 children under the age of 5, that's a disability."

Under the old system, there were people who pretended to have disabilities because they saw a benefit. Under your suggestion, the benefits would be much greater, the temptation would be greater and there are plenty of people who would try to take advantage by getting their doctor to write a note or writing up their own note.
So, besides needing to have a panel to review 'claims' as Gracie09 mentioned, there would also need to be a panel to review doctor's credentials (was it written by a real doctor?) and also to review whether the real doctor actually wrote the note/application.

Even with all the 'proofs' required for handicapped parking permits, there is still a lot of abuse - some from people who convinced their doctor to sign the papers and some from out and out cheats.
There would also need to be education to doctors about what constitutes being eligible for a 'golden ticket'. (And, also to guests - many would not understand why one person with a particular condition qualifies for a 'Golden Ticket' and theirs does not.
And, what about those who didn't know ahead of time to get the papers filled out?
And, although some people may not complain about special treatment for some, we have seen guests complaining about kids on MAW trips getting special treatment and have heard nasty comments from people who looked at our daughter when we were sitting on benches or waiting for buses when we were the first people at the stop. (So, assuming we were getting special treatment when we were not).

So, I think, what you are proposing would be costly, be a lot of 'red tape', lead to many more problems and much more possibility of abuse, not less.

 

[TheRustyScupper]

. . . Then WDW sets 3 days a week per park (different days per park but there would be plenty of overlap) and on these days guests with this verified pass receive three 'golden tickets'. All three golden tickets must be used within a 2 or 3 hour window printed on the ticket. Each ticket will have a photo of the guest and a photo of any member of their party who might also ride with them. The golden ticket lets the guest and one member of their party walk to the head of the line like a rockstar . . .

{FLAME PROOF SUIT IN PLACE}
1) The idea is not out-of-the-box.
2) It is out-of-the-ballpark, and maybe out-of-the-universe.
3) You are giving extra privileges to handicap persons that "normal" folks don't get
4) This is simply not right, and should never be permitted.
5) Handicapped people deserve ACCESS, not EXCESS.

NOTE: If I nor my family do not have a handicap, why should we have to wait
for someone with Golden Tickets to jump in front of us? Didn't we all pay the
going rate for admission? If so, then I have just as much rights to rides as any
other person.
{FLAME PROOF SUIT BACK INTO DRAWER}

 

[keishashadow]

the only 'golden ticket' I foresee is if WDW decides to offer FOTL percs in some version (complimentary or paid) for onsite guests ala the Loews properties at Unviersal

OP has provided an option but I have issues as to confidentiality as to medical conditions outside health/insurance records. Once a DAS is issued, we were told that return trips would be smoother after it's verified that nothing has changed as to original accommodation needs. It will be disappointing to discover during our upcoming trip that we have to go thru the whole process again and on subsequent visits next year.

I could have misunderstood what was explained to me/CM could've been misinformed, but on the first day of the new system in October was told to bring back the DAS 'next time' to speed things along...which would be a great benefit IMO especially not having to go into repeatedly long discourses for frequent visitors .

I did question CM as to why a signature was required on the DAS form. It was represented as a release of information that we were providing, permitting them to retain same for future usage.Now wondering if it's moreso 'blind' information as to % of passes issued, etc..

 

[SueM in MN]

Here is a picture of the signature area of the DAS

It not only says that the guest understands that the photo and other information may be saved to make re-issue easier. It also verifies that the guest agreed to the rules of use written on the card.

 

[bidnow5]

No I don't want any more people to have my private medical information.

 

[aaarcher86]

I don't believe WDW would be able to do something like this as a requirement to obtain any kind of access/privilege. I don't think it's even an option.

I know they do this for the handicap parking placards, but I assume there is some kind of leeway or protocol for it under ADA. Maybe because Disney is a private entity?

 

[SueM in MN]

I don't believe WDW would be able to do something like this as a requirement to obtain any kind of access/privilege. I don't think it's even an option.

I know they do this for the handicap parking placards, but I assume there is some kind of leeway or protocol for it under ADA. Maybe because Disney is a private entity?

It's because the ADA requires a specific number of handicapped accessible parking spots be provided in each parking lot.

Because they are in limited supply and are desirable to people without handicaps (because they are closer to entrances), there is a need to provide some way that people with actual need for those spots are the ones permitted to park there.

Disney's DAS program is an access program, not a special perks program. It does meet the ADA guidelines for providing access; it is basically the same program being used by other similar parks.

 

[aaarcher86]

It's because the ADA requires a specific number of handicapped accessible parking spots be provided in each parking lot.

Because they are in limited supply and are desirable to people without handicaps (because they are closer to entrances), there is a need to provide some way that people with actual need for those spots are the ones permitted to park there.

Disney's DAS program is an access program, not a special perks program. It does meet the ADA guidelines for providing access; it is basically the same program being used by other similar parks.

Oh no, I was referring to the need to provide documentation to receive the placard, not having the placard itself.

 

[Piper]

Since in many cases you wait longer than the posted standby time (because of waiting to use special cars, still needing to go through the line-even if it is fastpass line--etc.,) having to provide proof of illness would IMO add insult to injury. If you were given special perks for having the DAS instead of being penalized (in many cases,) it might be worth it.

I will not be going back to WDW. I can only spend a few hours a day in the morning before my energy runs out. Riding one or maybe two rides a day isn't worth it. Sometimes my energy doesn't even return the next day. It is not economically feasible to spend so much money for something that I would not be able to access. I realize this makes little difference to WDW and they really don't care. I am a drop in the bucket.

BTW--for what it is worth, I have Rheumatoid arthritis, lupus, neurofibrobatosis, type I (which involves tumors in my stomach, small intestine, spine, and brain,) diabetes, stroke which resulted in right side weakness, and a few other things thrown in for good measure. I was never given immediate access to rides, but did use the fastpass side. I also cannot ride many of the "big" rides. I have my own ECV which I use daily at home. I have limited energy and standing long enough to scramble an egg results in major pain. I used to enjoy my time at WDW, but I think that is another thing that is now in my past.

 

[bedogged]

I'm not saying a thing about GAC or DAS or whatever or complaining about who uses what. This is just a thought experiment to get an idea of what it would take to make the most people happy.

The GAC or DAS program was originally meant as a way to come into compliance with the ADA and provide (within reason) equal access to park features. There is debate about how well is achieves this goal but I will leave that to the side.

Here is my proposal. The ADA allows for special accommodations to be offered on the condition that need for those accommodations are verifiable. Handicap parking is a special privilege and they demand you get a form filled out by a doctor who could face serious sanctions if he commits fraud.

So in addition to the DAS (which I'm not discussing), perhaps WDW sets up a portal for a doctor to validate a request for a special pass for guests with severe mobility or similar constraints. This can be done through unified record keeping like the pharmacies and clinics are setting up. Then WDW sets 3 days a week per park (different days per park but there would be plenty of overlap) and on these days guests with this verified pass receive three 'golden tickets'. All three golden tickets must be used within a 2 or 3 hour window printed on the ticket. Each ticket will have a photo of the guest and a photo of any member of their party who might also ride with them. The golden ticket lets the guest and one member of their party walk to the head of the line like a rockstar.

My premise is that average folks have no problem stepping out of the way and letting a disabled person on ahead of them. I've talked with a load of folks, the kind who gripe the loudest over special lines for the disabled, and none of them have a problem letting someone with a verifiable medical condition go ahead of them in line.

But when 'special access' is being given to anyone who asks for it, the credibility of the system suffers and everyone using it is lumped in together. We've all heard the complaints, and the retorts about invisible disabilities. But the truth is that the old system did provide special advantages and did so without any real controls.

Any program intended to provide relief to those with special needs must still be respected by all guests of the park or else it will only divide people along very bitter emotional lines.

So that's my suggestion. Probably not a perfect one. Will take some doing on the tech end. It won't make everyone happy. But it will go a long way toward guaranteeing at leaste a minimal amount of magic for guests with severe disabilities.

I don't care so much about critiquing this proposal (though... by all means) but if you don't like it, tell me another plan that will address this need better.

I'm sorry, but I don't see a single way that your plan would make my life easier at WDW. It sounds like it was developed to appease those people here that do not like ANY accommodation being given to the disabled guest.

So, under your plan, I would receive a "golden pass" that would allow me and only ONE member of my family to visit the park only on certain days, for certain times? How would you feel about only being able to visit the parks on certain days and then not being able to ride with YOUR entire family?

As for WDW having access to my medical records and doctor, I trust WDW about as much with my medical records as I do Target with my credit card info.

Frankly, I am not interested in those people who gripe about people with disabilities. I am too busy trying to enjoy WDW without worrying about other people and their incorrect perceptions. IMHO haters are going to hate regardless of what plan is in effect.

 

[OurBigTrip]

I'm sorry, but I don't see a single way that your plan would make my life easier at WDW. It sounds like it was developed to appease those people here that do not like ANY accommodation being given to the disabled guest.

So, under your plan, I would receive a "golden pass" that would allow me and only ONE member of my family to visit the park only on certain days, for certain times? How would you feel about only being able to visit the parks on certain days and then not being able to ride with YOUR entire family?

As for WDW having access to my medical records and doctor, I trust WDW about as much with my medical records as I do Target with my credit card info.

Frankly, I am not interested in those people who gripe about people with disabilities. I am too busy trying to enjoy WDW without worrying about other people and their incorrect perceptions. IMHO haters are going to hate regardless of what plan is in effect.

I've not seen a single person, here or in real life, that doesn't want any accommodations provided.

Speaking for myself, I'm all for accommodations that provide as close to equal access as possible. I believe the DAS does that much better than dd the GAC.

 

[pbrim]

I've not seen a single person, here or in real life, that doesn't want any accommodations provided.

I too have not encountered anyone who proclaimed that they did not want ANY accommodations offered. However I have encountered plenty of people, on line and in person, who were willing for accommodations to be made PROVIDED -- they and their party were inconvenienced in any way whatsoever (however much the disabled people were inconvenienced), and only certain people who met the abled person's personal criteria (which almost always include being visibly disabled), and the disabled person should have to jump through multiple hoops not required of abled people, such as making their private medical information available at any time to any stranger who inquired, including sufficient evidence to rebut a presumption that they were lying. So in essence, no real accommodations, just lip service to make themselves look good.

I am not specifically accusing any person here of this, I haven't read all the comments (although I think the original proposal has definite overtones of this.) But there are plenty of them out there.

 

[OurBigTrip]

I too have not encountered anyone who proclaimed that they did not want ANY accommodations offered. However I have encountered plenty of people, on line and in person, who were willing for accommodations to be made PROVIDED -- they and their party were inconvenienced in any way whatsoever (however much the disabled people were inconvenienced), and only certain people who met the abled person's personal criteria (which almost always include being visibly disabled), and the disabled person should have to jump through multiple hoops not required of abled people, such as making their private medical information available at any time to any stranger who inquired, including sufficient evidence to rebut a presumption that they were lying. So in essence, no real accommodations, just lip service to make themselves look good.

I am not specifically accusing any person here of this, I haven't read all the comments (although I think the original proposal has definite overtones of this.) But there are plenty of them out there.

No one is asking for your private medical information - they're asking for what your needs are. And given the overuse and abuse of the GAC, that's exactly what they should be doing.

 

[pbrim]

The current system only asks for needs,but I was referring to the system proposed by the OP,which would require my doctor to go on-line and "prove" my disability,with specific reference to the type of record keeping systems used by doctors and pharmacies. How is that NOT asking for medical info?

Moreover the kind of people I was talking about are real big on saying that people should have to provide medical justification to prove they are entitled to handicap accommodation. If they don't have to provide medical information to be kept on file in order to visit Disney, neither should I.

 

[OurBigTrip]

The current system only asks for needs,but I was referring to the system proposed by the OP,which would require my doctor to go on-line and "prove" my disability,with specific reference to the type of record keeping systems used by doctors and pharmacies. How is that NOT asking for medical info?

My bad, I thought you were referring to getting the DAS.

Moreover the kind of people I was talking about are real big on saying that people should have to provide medical justification to prove they are entitled to handicap accommodation. If they don't have to provide medical information to be kept on file in order to visit Disney, neither should I.

Since the implementation of the DAS, I would agree, no one should have to provide medical information, but they should have to explain what their needs are. The GAC, as it was implemented, should have required medical justification, because it wasn't simply an accommodation, it was privileged access.

 

[cobright]

Not a bad discussion. Really all of the responses are well thought out.

I would clarify a few things about my proposal, though.

bedogged asked:

So, under your plan, I would receive a "golden pass" that would allow me and only ONE member of my family to visit the park only on certain days, for certain times? How would you feel about only being able to visit the parks on certain days and then not being able to ride with YOUR entire family?

That's not what I meant at all. What I meant is that in addition to the current accessibility programs Disney provides, guests with severe mobility or accessibility constraints can participate in a program that gives them three front of the line or near front of the line experiences per day. I'm not proposing limitting access at all nor making the program mandatory. Simply another option for people who still end up shut out under the current system.

To make this happen, the some of the rest of us wait in some lines a little longer for a couple hours a day a couple days out of a vacation.

I'm not asking Disney to review medical records. I'm suggesting only that the need for this be verified on a legally binding document, a sworn affadavit, like that which is needed to secure a handicap parking permit. There is fraud in the handicap parking permit game but mostly it is secondary (between the person issued the permit and the person using it), doctors really do not want to legally swear that a well person needs a handicap space.

I like Rusty Scuppers response. No flame proof suit needed here I hope. I held a similar view for some time myself. I had a funny sort of awakening on a trip to Korea. In Korea the people basically said that blind people should have a fair shot at working like anyone else, but there's not much a blind person can do. So they set aside a few occupations like massage therapist and declared that only blind people may legally work this job. It's so extreme of a solution, just tell everyone else who might want to do this job that they are not handicapped enough to get the job. But the program is (or was anyway) very popular. People told me, "The alternative is that some people who can work don't get to."

So I ask, if you're in line and a cancer kid behind you is fading fast. She's gonna have to go home in 3 or 4 minutes max. You're next in line to see Snow White and Rapunzel, her favorite princesses as well as your kids' favorite. Do you offer to switch place with her? Or do you enjoy getting your at your deserved time knowing that cancer girl will be going home without any such fun?

To anyone who cares, answer this please, yes or no; Are there some people with disabilities or illness that simply cannot fully enjoy WDW without special access? Special access in this case meaning above and beyond reasonable accomodation.

If the answer is yes, then what would a system designed to help those special cases look like? I agree it won't look much like what I proposed, but I covered three bases, little imposition on the rest of the guests, guarantee a reasonable level of WDW fun to someone who would otherwise not have it, and be accountable to providing this only on an as needed basis.

Maybe someone has different bases they would rather see covered, that's what I'm looking for.