out of control 2 year old.... very long sorry

[gabbysmom04]

My DD 2.5 is a terror. when she was 1.5 we had another baby who has a lot of serious medical problems. He has had to have 4 surgeries so far, his daily care up until a few months ago was hours of med care. As hard as we tried to make it normal as possible it seems we failed. Our DD has been affected more then we thought possible. She has been hitting her brother since he was born. She screams and fights over everything. This is way beyond normal terrible twos. We have early intervention for her speech and now have a social worker for her behavior. The problem is that the social worker that we have just wants me to ignore everything. Last week when my DD was spitting on herself and the floor she told me to just ignore it. I am told that I should just ignore everything so we have no conflict. Now I will admit that I am tired and overwhelmed but I can't believe that letting her do whatever she wants will in any way help. Someone please tell me what to do! How to I get my DD under control... Also I have tried everything I could think of time outs, yelling, nice talking, and against my better judgement my DH tried spanking and she just laughed!

 

[NotUrsula]

I can't tell you how to improve her behavior, but it is obvious that your social worker's advice doesn't seem to be helping you. Have you considered getting a second opinion, or perhaps consulting a psychiatrist who is experienced with treating young children? I certainly hope you can find a positive resolution for this situation.

 

[Worfiedoodles]

You just sound like you need a great big

I don't have any brilliant advice for you. It sounds like your plate is completely full. Is there any chance of sending dd to preschool when she's three? Even for a morning or two a week might be helpful. She would see how other children behave, and she would learn some appropriate tools for coping. It's almost magical how they often will conform when faced with a group situation.

In the meantime, try to make sure you get enough rest, you get some breaks, and try to find some one-on-one time to spend with her if you can -- or perhaps she has a grandparent or aunt who could take her for special times?

If Daddy took her out for a special time, that would at least give you a break...

Post as often as you need to. Your DIS family is here to send some
your way!

 

[luvmy3jewels]

I'm by far not a child rearing expert, but I think most children go through a "terrible 2s" period. It sounds like your daughter's may be exacerbated quite a bit due to the circumstances.

My honest opinion is she is doing this to get attention. She has seen her sibling getting alot of attention, and she wants her share any way she can get it. I think ignoring her is the last thing you should do....If she were my child, I would go out of my way to ensure that she gets plenty of one on one time with myself, my dh, or any other family members that can give it to her. I would also do everything I can to get and keep her on a daily routine, so she will know what to expect every day.

Good luck! Being a parent isn't always easy, and it certainly sounds like you have had a rougher time than most.

 

[PoohHappens]

I am by no means qualified to give you advice, but I really felt for you when I saw your post. I am a nurse in pediatrics and L&D. This is a common issue when there has been an ill, or high need child in a family. I would normally recommend a good child psychologist who does play therapy, however your daughter is toward the young side of what a lot of them take. Having had a DS who had speech therapy I can also suggest that some of this behavior may also be realted to frustration of not being able to fully communicate some of the thought processes she is having. Our son was very frustrated as his brain was moving much faster than his mouth and communication skills. I understand the suggestion for ignoring bad behavior and rewarding commenting on self initiated good behavior. With all the attention your DS requires your daughter may have found the undesireable behavior to be more effective at getting your attention. Not directly knowing you circumstances none of us will really be able to give any more that suggestions based on our experiences. What we can offer is support. My prayers are with you and I am sure any of us would love to let you blow of frustrations in a post anytime. Best of luck to you, the fact that you are seeking help and realizing things are not ideal just demonstrate that you are a loving mom who cares deeply for your children.

 

[Hannathy]

I think the poor baby just wants and needs attention. She is still a baby. I know how hard it is to take care of someone sick I did it, but is she getting you one on one everyday? If she isn't IMO you need to do what ever you can that she does. Have your DH care for the baby for an hour in the evening and you devote the time to just your daughter, no baby, no chores, no phone. Hopefully as she feels more secure in her share of you she will quit the negative attention getters, because any attention is better than none.

 

[belle&beast]

I am a mom going through behavior issues with a 5.5yo DD and a preschool speech therapist (I have early intervention experience as well). First I'll talk as the SLP: Some kids who have trouble expressing themselves become aggressive because they have no way to express their anger or to make themselves understood. If she has receptive language delays, she may not be understanding your requests or questions. Make sure you discuss your concerns with your therapist- maybe you can use sign language or picture cards if they would be helpful. There are a lot of things you can do, but it is hard to tell you what to do without knowing what her difficulties are.

Now as a mom, DH and I took DD5.5 to a psychologist a couple of weeks ago because we were at a loss with her behavior- bigtime tantrums, hitting, biting and screaming that came on all of a sudden. He suggested we have a quiet zone for her and talk to her in a calm manner about it being ok to be angry. This worked for about 2 minutes and she was walking all over us and manipulating the situation.

We have found that we are sure to compliment her good behavior and especially if she stops herself from becoming out of control, and it seems to be working. I still use a calm but firm voice and give her 2 choices- if she does not make a choice, I choose for her. And DH and I are on the same page and VERY consistent.

It is so difficult and I really feel for you. When I worked in early intervention there were different providers to choose from and maybe you could find a different social worker that would be a better fit for your family.

 

[brergnat]

What kind of speech delay does your DD have? Expressive or receptive? My son is also 2.5 y/o and is a TERRIBLE two!!! However, he was recently diagnosed as mildly autistic. He has been in speech therapy for expressive language delay since he was 1.5. Is there a possibility that your daughter is autistic? I only ask because over the top tantruming for "no reason" is a characteristic of autism.

I am not trying to scare you or diagnose your child, but the speech delay coupled with her behavioral issues should be looked into further. There is a possibility that she may have some sort of neurological condition. I had a baby last march, when DS was 20 months, and he hit his brother on occasion and full out screamed and cried EVERY time I fed the baby for the first 2 months. Now, my DS #2 is 10 months old and DS #1 still gets very aggressive with him and hits and throws his toys when he gets angry.

I would bring up these issues with your child's PEDIATRICIAN. The case workers don't always know what to do, or know the full story unless you tell them. Ask the pediatrician if seeing a pediatric neurologist should be considered.

It is scary to think about the possibility that something may be wrong with your daughter, but it is very important to rule out any underlying conditions that may be causing her speech delay as well as her behavior. If it turns out to be something, it is better to start therapy as soon as possible, in order to rectify the situation at home as well as prepare her for school in the future. Although "terrible twos" are to be expected, the degree and frequency of tantruming should not be all the time and uncontrollable.

I am actually glad I learned that my son is autistic. He is high functioning, so that is good news, but it does help immensely to KNOW why he behaves the way he does. "Ignoring" doesn't work with him. He is a screamer, and screams whenever he does not get his way. He is also OCD, and has an all out fit if he is not allowed to do things a certain way. Unfortunately, if my baby is nearby during a tantrum, he ends up getting hit with a toy or kicked, or slapped. When my tantruming son gets violent, the only way to get him to understand that what he is doing is NOT okay is to spank him and put him in time out. Over time, he has learned that the time out chair is where he needs to go when he is worked up. We give him 2 minute time outs, and usually he screams through the whole thing, but by the end, he is calm. It is very frustrating, especially with a younger baby in the house, but you have to STOP ignoring your daughter. She is behaving that way for a reason and you have to get to the root of it.

If you want to PM me, feel free.

 

[UrsulasShadow]

Lots of sympathy and hugs for you. Hang in there, you sound like a loving, caring parent. It's so hard when a child is acting out, it makes you feel so powerless and lost.

I will give no advice, as I'm not a professional, nor did I have a problem with my children at that age (my li'l angels waited until they were teens to tear me into pieces!). But I've found working with professional counselors to be very helpful, if for no other reason than it gives me an impartial person to vent on. If you don't feel the SW you're working with is helpful, try another. Counselors are people, too, and sometimes one clicks better than another.

Hang in there!

 

[LaraK]

I feel for you. I know that when DS is having a bad episode with his health, DD often acts out. One thing I do try really hard to do is to carve out some mommy daughter time. One day when I took my daughter to lunch, just the two of us, she asked me if DS was going to die (he'd had a few bad patches in his illness and been in and out of hospitals and doctors offices for a few weeks more than usual). Until she asked me that, I didn't fully realize how terrifying it must be for her to love her brother and not really understand anything other than he was sick and mommy and daddy were scared. She and I had a long talk about what was going on and we now try to include her when he gets sick. She will even hold the nebulizer for him and help get his medications. She is a couple of years older, but it seems to really help sometimes (others, she still a holy terror...then she is removed to her room and we put a gate up so that she can not get out.)

 

[solgent]

you have my sympathy & best wishes. that sounds very difficult.

I don't feel I have much to offer except the perspective of an outsider. Please take from it what you think might help and leave the rest.

*if DD is not hurting herself or someone else, I think it's OK to ignore. (It's not even ignoring, really, it's making a judgement as a parent not to fight that particular battle.) I'd say at this point she's not going to be able to manage consistent great behavior. Decide on a standard, such as "No hurting self or others" and praise everything else. When the hitting & that type of behavior (hopefully) diminishes you can raise the bar a little higher. It seems like for this little girl to try to get her to really act right, the way you want her to, is too hard for her right now and constantly struggling with her may be counterproductive. I also agree with another poster who said routine is key.

*Can you possibly hire someone or get a volunteer carer from your community or place of worship to do things for your younger child or things in your household that do not need *you* specifically to do? there may well be people around who would truly like to help you but don't know how. if they can go grocery shopping, do laundry, take baby for a walk, that will make them feel great and will give you a chance for 1-on-1 with DD or for something that will recharge you.

*my understanding is it is quite difficult on siblings when one child has a severe problem. perhaps your doctor can recommend a parent support group.

please write back & let us know how you are!

 

[KeepSwimming]

HANG IN THERE HONEY! You sound like someone who is completely stressed out and desperate to take care of her babies. I have not been through this myself, so as a complete outsider, I would like to agree with the other poster who suggested establishing a strict routine:

Wake up time, breakfast, one on one play time, snack, nap, lunch, play outside, dinner, bath, bedtime story, sleep (or whatever things work for your munchkin).

I've seen friends kids COMPLETELY turn around once a regular routine has been established and maintained. It makes it easier for you too, honey. You know what's coming next, and this kind of security is good for your 2 year old and her mommy!

We're here if you need to vent, and PLEASE keep us updated cause I'll be thinking about you and your family.

 

[las3888]

I admit I am NO EXPERT right up front. All I can say is that I have a 23 month old myself who is no stranger to a tantrum.

My only thought is that I don't think the point of ignoring bad behavior is to avoid conflict...I am just a firm believer that ignoring bad behavior is a way of saying "you are not going to get my attention when you act in a way I don't want you to act". When kids misbehave, often it is a way of getting your attention, and when you give them your attention, they succeed in what they were trying to do. This makes them keep doing that behavior because they know it's a way of getting you to react and/or get your attention. I do believe in rewarding the good behavior.

Please keep in mind, this does not mean I do not scold my child when things are not as I want, I just have to assess when he is trying to get me to react, and I have found some success in trying not to scold or draw attention to every negative thing my child does.

Hopefully this makes some sense...again, I'm no expert! Good luck and many blessings to you and your family!

 

[LJRJR]

It looks like you have gotten some great advise so far. I am not in a situation like yours, with a sick child who needs extra care. However, I do have three children very close in age, and it is difficult to give them all the time they need. As another poster suggested, I would look into a child care facility, even a two days a week for three hours a day, might provide her with more focused attention. It is difficult when a child has your attention then you need to turn and focus on someone else. A pre school might give her more structure and consistancy.

As far as the "negative" behavior, my pediatrician has always stressed to praise the good behavior and ignore bad. So if your daughter is spitting on the floor, its not a big deal. Try to catch the few good moments she has during the day and stop and tell her how good she is. I am still working hard at this myself, but I think it will work. However, there are many things that children do that can not be ignored. It sounds like you are doing a great job!

 

[honeymom]

I do think you need a child psychologist. We have issues with our DD. I wish I had gotten one involved when she was younger. I would also talk with the psychologist about doing an evaluation on her, just to rule anything out. The psychologist is as much for helping you to cope and helping you decide how to handle her as it is for her. They will help you set up a system of positive rewards. Plus, if there is an underlying issue, they can help. Having a dd with emotional problems/adhd, I can tell you that ignoring is not always the right advice. Consistency and attention to the positives can work better sometimes. Also, you need to keep instructions simple and bend down and get eye contact when you give her an instruction. Do not give her choices - i.e. it is better to tell her I am giving you cereal for breakfast than to say would you like cereal or a waffle this morning?

Good luck. You sound like you are dealing with a very full plate and I feel for you. We have dealt with a lot and a lot of other parents will not understand your issues - they will look down on you and feel that her problems are a reflection of bad parenting. You sound like a caring parent and I think things will get better for you over time.

 

[ErinSLP]

"First I'll talk as the SLP: Some kids who have trouble expressing themselves become aggressive because they have no way to express their anger or to make themselves understood. If she has receptive language delays, she may not be understanding your requests or questions. Make sure you discuss your concerns with your therapist- maybe you can use sign language or picture cards if they would be helpful. There are a lot of things you can do, but it is hard to tell you what to do without knowing what her difficulties are."

BelleandBeast--you took the words right out of my mouth, I am also an SLP, I work with 3-5 year olds and also have birth-3 experience.

I would talk to your pediatrician about the situation, they are there to advise and guide you on your child's emotional well being, not just physical health. Also, if you don not agree with your social worker's philosophy---request someone else. Yoou need to feel comfortable and agree with the methods being used to help you in this situation.

All the best to you---

 

[Monkeyfeet]

When my tantruming son gets violent, the only way to get him to understand that what he is doing is NOT okay is to spank him and put him in time out.

With all due respect, I do not understand this rationale. Does physically hitting your child really teach not to hit others?
I would think that would be confusing to a child. "It is not ok to hit, so I am going to teach you that by hitting."

I feel that we must model appropriate behavior for our children. So if I do not want my children to scream or be violent, then I can not do those behaviors as well.

One of my clients spanks her oldest child because he hits his younger brother. She says that she wants the older one to know that he can not hit the younger one because he is much bigger and could hurt him. She is just beginning to understand how confusing that must be because she is bigger than her oldest ds and yet she is hitting him..... Also, she now understands that violent behavior is not how to solve violent behavior.

 

[Monkeyfeet]

To the OP, many hugs to you. I agree that your dd needs attention and that her speech delay may be frustrating for her. Has anyone suggested teaching her to sign? I do not know what her delay is in, but that may be helpful. Signing Times has some GREAT videos. Are dd knew well over a 100 ASL signs before she was 15 months.

All the best to you!

 

[ohiominnie]

to you! You have your hands full! Having that second child is rarely easy on the first one and the ages between your two aren't very far apart so your dd was still a baby when the second came along.

I haven't completely read through all of the responses, but the ones I skimmed through had some great advice.

I do think that you need to look into someone other than this social worker who isn't helping you. It may be good advice for another family, but if it isn't working for YOUR family, then you need to find someone who can help.

Another strategy to think about (and we used this with our kids when we went through those trying times) is a sticker chart.
Make the payoff something your dd loves (a new book, a new toy, a trip to get ice cream, a trip to chuck e. cheese....whatever....each child has their "currency" you just need to find what it is for your daughter)
For her age, make the number of stickers needed to reach goal fairly short....maybe 5 days or so. After all, to say "if you get 30 stickers you'll get a new toy" has no meaning to a little one.
Make the behavior that you want done very very specific. For example don't say "for every day you are nice to your brother, you get a sticker" because "being nice" isn't something that can be measured well. Instead how about "for every day that you don't hit your brother, you get a sticker." At bedtime, if it was a day that there was no hitting, make a BIG deal about her getting the sticker. Point out how many stickers she's already earned and how many she has left to go. Praise praise praise for those good days. If there is a bad day in there, mention to her that she hit her brother so there is no sticker for today but she can try again tomorrow....but don't make a big deal about it.
Only pick one battle at a time. It sounds like the hitting would be top of my list since it's hurting someone else.

again.

 

[jakoky]

ohhh, i so feel for you and send hugs your way....my middle child, my son, went through what i can only call a "psycho phase"...he was a placid easy baby, a perfect toddler, then at 3.5 things went crazy...i should also say the my youngest was a preemie and was born with very 3 different bowel problems...she underwent 3 major surgeries and i was away for 2 months with her...this was when he was just over 2 so it had nothing to do with what came later...he would just "lose it"...you never knew what would set him off, and we almost started walking on eggshells...he became violent, he would hit, kick, punch, pull hair, to whoever was closest(only family members i should say tho )....i thought i had failed as a parent, i cried, we tried everything, from ignoring, to time outs, to reasoning, and even to spanking, which i only did a couple of times-broke my heart, but nothing worked...long story short, we take him to the doc about his adnoids to find out our son bascially has NO hearing....i ask, can this cause bad behaviour and outburts, and his reply, most definately...first, i was upset as i hadnt seen the signs, with 3 small kids, they all turned up the tv, but after learining what was wrong, i realized kole always watched our mouths when we talked and realized that was why his speech wasnt as clear as it should have been, he had trouble wih some letter sounds...well, they whammed him on antiobitics, not thinking it would work as he had bulging ear drums with NO fluid in behind and NO infection....2 weeks later my little boy was coming back, but by this time, after 9 months of his bad behaviour, it was hard to break, but once he could hear again, he became my easy going little guy again....over the years we have had times that i knew by his behaviour that his hearing was low again, and today at 13 he actually has some hearing loss in one ear...frustrating as he has only had 1or
2 infections ever...anyways, i just hope they can rule out anything like this, as i feel guilt that he could have been helped sooner but we just didnt know....i wish you well in this overly frustrating time and i can tell that you are awesome parents
sharon