OT-Why is this so hard for me??

[brandylouwho]

I just wanted to chime in and once again tell you to not beat yourself up about this. Breast, formula...can be debated forever, but honestly your baby will be fine either way.

I struggled and stressed out trying to breastfeed exclusively with my 1st child, we made it 6 mos (yeah!) but it felt like a failure because I was aiming for at least one year, if not two. She was totally weaned at 11 mos, mostly by her choice.

This time around I made up my mind to try again, but to not let it become a point of stress in and of itself. I pump for about 10-15 minutes twice a day at work and get maybe 8 oz total on average. DD eats around 12 oz per day at daycare, so that last 4 oz is formula. She breastfeeds when we are together, but occassionally gets a formula bottle when we are out and about and she is hungry. I refuse to feel bad for giving her some formula and I choose to feel good about the breastmilk she does get from me.

I have noiced that many things I have read seem to ring true such as you get more milk in the morning, produce less when stressed (which I often am at work) and that you tend to make as much as your baby needs. My daughters rarely ate more than 4 oz at a time when bottle fed and I rarely pumped more than 4 oz total at any one time. And sometimes when I am really wound up about some issue at work, it takes longer to calm down and for the milk to let down. But I find that pumping time relaxing and rejuvinating.

Do what works for YOU and choose to feel good abot it.

Good luck!

 

[Colinsmom]

I didn't read all the replies, but wanted to throw out some pumping advice.

When you start pumping, use the fastest speed and lowest suction. Once you get a letdown, switch to the slowest speed and the highest suction that you are comfortable with. Once the letdown ends, switch back to fast/low suction and wait for the second letdown. Then switch back to slow/high suction. It took me about a week, but this pumping pattern dramatically increased my pumping output and decreased how long it took to pump! It's all about mimicking baby's sucking pattern - your body knows how to respond to it!

I also threw in a pumping right before bedtime (when I was working and nursing). I did it every day, and after about a week, I'd get about 8oz every night, which added to my "cushion" since I often didn't get enough time to pump during the day at work.

Good luck!!

 

[sdoll]

How were you determining that he was "starving"?
I mean on the first day of vacation at 4pm he was really fussy and wanted to "nurse" all the time he never stopped crying unless I was trying to nurse him. Out of complete desperation after hours of him crying I gave him a bottle which he gulped down. I decided I would not nurse him the next day unless I was uncomfortable it never happened. I must have stopped producing and he must have been okay with the formula and baby food he was receiving. So I am afraid to do that with this one because I felt horrible when we went through that.

 

[Juliet25]

How were you determining that he was "starving"?

I mean on the first day of vacation at 4pm he was really fussy and wanted to "nurse" all the time he never stopped crying unless I was trying to nurse him. Out of complete desperation after hours of him crying I gave him a bottle which he gulped down. I decided I would not nurse him the next day unless I was uncomfortable it never happened. I must have stopped producing and he must have been okay with the formula and baby food he was receiving. So I am afraid to do that with this one because I felt horrible when we went through that.

Most likely, he gulped down the bottle because, well, it's much easier to eat from a bottle than a breast. Obviously, you're the best judge of your DS's behavior, so I don't want to sound like I'm doubting your experience. I'm just adding an alternative way to look at it. If your DS was cluster feeding, it can be extremely frustrating for mom (BTDT!). Your frustration can in turn impede your let-down and frustrate your DS. It doesn't necessarily mean that your milk production dried up.

I know breastfeeding is not always sunshine and rainbows. There's a lot of myths out there and it's hard when you have no one to turn to for advice. I think it's important to point out that bottlefeeding and breastfeeding are two very different modes of feeding, and, unfortunately, we tend to judge the successfulness of breastfeeding using the standards of bottlefeeding.

You've been able to sustain your DS for 5 months with your body. Obviously, you're doing something right! Trust your body; trust your instincts. Breastfeeding is the way babies are meant to be fed. There is help out there, and a lot of it is free -- LLL, the hospital your delivered at, a local mom's club. It sounds like you've got a good middle ground to consider...nursing DS when you're together and giving him formula when you're apart. If it doesn't work out and you switch to formula 100% of the time, at least you know you tried your best. If you wean, however, the die is cast and you can't really go back and re-establish breastfeeding. (Well, you can relactate, but it's not easy!)

OK, lecture over!

 

[maymom96]

Try drinking mothers milk tea. You can buy it at most grocery stores. It will help with your milk production but does take a few days before you notice. Oatmeal is also good to help with your milk.
Is it possible for you to pump while you are nursing? This should help you with let down. Maybe do it on your days off so you can start to build up a supply in the freezer.
At work, you need to relax. Take a picture of the baby and a blanket or toy that reminds you of the baby. Take a smell that reminds you of the baby. What about a tape recording of the baby crying (a lot of women will have a let down when they hear a baby cry).
Try joining a support list such as pumping moms for more ideas too. Just so you know, the amount that you pump is not a reflection of how much your baby is able to get when he nurses.
For information about meetings in your area go to www.lalecheleague.org A leader closer to you should be able to be able to help you. You are not bothering the leaders if you contact them. We are here to help others.

 

[jodifla]

Most likely, he gulped down the bottle because, well, it's much easier to eat from a bottle than a breast. Obviously, you're the best judge of your DS's behavior, so I don't want to sound like I'm doubting your experience. I'm just adding an alternative way to look at it. If your DS was cluster feeding, it can be extremely frustrating for mom (BTDT!). Your frustration can in turn impede your let-down and frustrate your DS. It doesn't necessarily mean that your milk production dried up.

I know breastfeeding is not always sunshine and rainbows. There's a lot of myths out there and it's hard when you have no one to turn to for advice. I think it's important to point out that bottlefeeding and breastfeeding are two very different modes of feeding, and, unfortunately, we tend to judge the successfulness of breastfeeding using the standards of bottlefeeding.

You've been able to sustain your DS for 5 months with your body. Obviously, you're doing something right! Trust your body; trust your instincts. Breastfeeding is the way babies are meant to be fed. There is help out there, and a lot of it is free -- LLL, the hospital your delivered at, a local mom's club. It sounds like you've got a good middle ground to consider...nursing DS when you're together and giving him formula when you're apart. If it doesn't work out and you switch to formula 100% of the time, at least you know you tried your best. If you wean, however, the die is cast and you can't really go back and re-establish breastfeeding. (Well, you can relactate, but it's not easy!)

OK, lecture over!

Oh, PLEASE! The reason this mom feels guilty is "lectures" like these!!!!!

To the OP: One of the HAPPIEST days of my life was the day I stopped trying to nurse my son who just hated it. I did have a successful time pumping and was able to continue that on so DS was mostly had BF. But even then I felt SO guilty that I wasn't doing it right.

I stopped pumping at 3 months and switched totally to formula. We were all much happier. And DS was no sicker or fatter or anything else because he had formula.

Just do what's right for you and your little one!!!!!!!! Forget everybody else on this subject.

And I'd really think twice about going to Le Leche. They DO NOT have any kind of reasonable view on the matter.

 

[mom2aredhead]

Oh, PLEASE! The reason this mom feels guilty is "lectures" like these!!!!!

To the OP: One of the HAPPIEST days of my life was the day I stopped trying to nurse my son who just hated it. I did have a successful time pumping and was able to continue that on so DS was mostly had BF. But even then I felt SO guilty that I wasn't doing it right.

I stopped pumping at 3 months and switched totally to formula. We were all much happier. And DS was no sicker or fatter or anything else because he had formula.

Just do what's right for you and your little one!!!!!!!! Forget everybody else on this subject.

And I'd really think twice about going to Le Leche. They DO NOT have any kind of reasonable view on the matter.

I completely agree.
I only nursed for about a week because I felt pressured into it by lectures like that. I hated it, honestly never even wanted to try it, but I felt like I had to becuase of all the BF'ing moms that equate formula to child abuse. I called La Leche more than once, and am still waiting for the support and assistance they are supposed to provide. My son just turned 4 so I'm pretty sure they're not going to respond at this point.
I felt completely guilty when I stopped - all I kept thinking about was the woman that ran the BF'ing seminar at Babies R Us calling breast milk "liquid gold" and formula "artificial baby powder". The guilt actually added a lot to the post partum depression I was going through. Not a good time in my life.
Anyway, fast forward to now - my son is completely healthy and normal. Go figure. I must have done something right.
So do whatever feels right for your family and don't let anyone make you feel bad about it.

 

[Nom]

(((hugs))) to the op. I agree. don't tear yourself up. You've done a great job mothering both of your children!

If you're feeling guilty about giving up nursing, that normally means you're not ready to stop yet. I agree with what others have said- at your baby's age, it is definately possible to just partially wean- meaning, nurse when you're together, and then suppliment with formula while you are at work. Your supply should adjust accordingly. That might be the best solution for you. Here's some great info on partial weaning:

http://www.kellymom.com/bf/weaning/weaning-partial.html

If you do choose to continue to pump, here are some questions to expore: Were you ever able to pump more than you currently are pumping? Do you think that you might need new tubing or other soft pump parts? In my expierence, if my soft pump parts were worn, it would dramatically cut down on my pumping output.

Also, a pper wrote about fenugreek. Fenugreek is an herb which is available at health food stores. It will increase your supply. Here's a great link with a lot of info about it:

http://www.kellymom.com/herbal/milksupply/fenugreek.html

As for not being able to nurse your older son, and your experience that you just stopped producing- that is very rare (although in some instances it does happen). More likely, he was going through a growth spurt. Not many moms know (I know I never did!), but babies go through growth spurts at pretty set times... and during those times, they nurse more in order to increase your supply. At those times, many moms think that thier babies are starving, but really baby is just nursing a lot to increase supply to what he needs now. If you suppliment, your supply won't catch up to baby's growing needs- and it's a slipper slope from there. I'm not telling you this to make you feel badly or doubt your past choice- just to try to reassure you! it seems like you have doubts about your ability to nourish your babies due to what happened with your first son- but stories like that are common- it does not mean you can;t succeed with baby #2.

Sorry to be so long, but in closing- I agree with ppers. nursing is a two way street, and if you are ready to be done, be done! Your baby will be fine yes. But I sense in your OP that you're not ready to be done yet- so if that is the case, you have a few alternatives. It's not all or nothing! You can choose to partially wean, and just nurse when you and baby are together. Or you can try a galactogogue like fenugreek and try to increase your pumping output.

what ever you choose, I wish you peace with your decision. Feel free to pm me for support if you need it (I am a lactation telephone counceler (sp)).

 

[Nom]

PS I just re-read your op and thought of a few questions:

1. How often are you pumping?

2. Are you double pumping (meaning pumping both breasts simultaneously)? This stiumlates a lot more milk when compared to single pumping.

I used to pump every 3 hours, double pumping for 2o min each time. I bought a pumping bra (it holds the horns in place) so I could pump handsfree, and it totally changed my life! With that pumping bra my schedule was:

nurse baby in am
pump during commute (handsfree while driving)
pump again around 11
pump again around 2- 2:30
reunite with baby around 5:30 and nurse
nurse baby at bedtime at 8 pm
nurse once at 1 am ish

that schedule really worked for me. let me tell you, the handsfree bra and pumping in the car was my lifesaver- one less pumping session away from work! then when I cut down to 2 times a day, it was even better.

hope that helps!

 

[maymom96]

I am sad to hear that you did not have a good experience with LLL. This is not the type of treatment that the leaders are suppose to give.
LLL would help this mom out a great deal. Or even a lactation consultant.

 

[Nom]

I am sad to hear that you did not have a good experience with LLL. This is not the type of treatment that the leaders are suppose to give.
LLL would help this mom out a great deal. Or even a lactation consultant.

I have found that LLL is inconsistent. As a PWOH (pumping and working outside the home) mom, at the national LLL conference I was told that I am welcomed into the LLL fold, but national leadership acknowledge that they need to improve their outreach to PWOH moms.

When I was pregnant, the stringent tone of The Womanly Art of Breastfeeding made me feel badly about working outside the home... and I was told that I should not try to become a LLL leader because I work outside the home.

Don't get me wrong, many of the people in LLL are wonderful and want to help women. Most of them in fact. But the few LLL members who are very strident in their views of what 'good mothering' is give can give prospective new members a bad taste in their mouth, in my experience.

 

[maymom96]

Don't get me wrong, many of the people in LLL are wonderful and want to help women. Most of them in fact. But the few LLL members who are very strident in their views of what 'good mothering' is give can give prospective new members a bad taste in their mouth, in my experience.

I agree. I am a leader applicant waiting to become a leader. The current leader is in her 80's and in the mindset of the 40's and 50's. The other leader applicant is anti c-section and chased away a pregnant mom who is getting a scheduled c-section. This applicant is being endorsed by the current leader and I am left to clean up the mess after meetings. It's very frustrating!!!!
So my suggestion is if you meet a leader who doesn't trip your trigger, find another leader and group. Then report that leader.
LLL is there for women who need help or support with breastfeeding. Leaders are not suppose to belittle others or do anything that would make moms attending the meetings or asking for help feel bad.
LLL used to never let working moms be leaders. Thankfully things have changed and anyone with a year experience nursing can apply to be a leader. Leaders are moms who are not paid and volunteer their time. But if they signed up to be a leader and can't return phone calls, they need to step aside.

 

[NotUrsula]

Um, pumping as I type this, at work, wearing a pumping bra brace. Luckily this time around I have a private office, so I can pump for extended periods without affecting my work.

Have you told your OB? There could be an organic reason, beyond just the 5 month slump. EVERYBODY hits the 5 month slump; it has to do with a drop in lactation hormones. Now if it's the slump, the easiest thing is chemicals/herbs, if you're not opposed to them. Your OB can prescribe reglan (I'm taking it at the moment, and luckily for me it doesn't give me any side effects), or you can take either fenugreek or blessed thistle (NOT "milk thistle"!) that you can get OTC in health-food stores. Fenugreek will make you and your milk smell like maple syrup, but the flavor doesn't seem to be adversely affected.

What I've always been told is that pumping for frequent short periods is more productive than longer periods less frequently. Your best bet (besides taking the chemicals/herbs for help) is to try pumping for 4 15-minute sessions per day if at all possible. If you can leave your pump set up it will save you a lot of time; I put mine on a little rolling wire cart and covered it with a towel during the day. Other techniques include manual tricks like massage and breast compressions, but again, those take time. I find that massaging in circles up under the arms can help the back ducts do their part a bit better.


I'd keep pumping if you want to keep up your night/weekend supply while supplementing with formula. It probably won't make you feel nearly so stressed if you are not dependent on your output. Remember that some people just don't do well with pumps but are fine nursing.

Generally I've found that LLL night meeting groups are friendlier to working moms than the daytime ladies. My problem with the first group I encountered was that it was full of dairy-avoidant vegetarians. I'm unabashedly carnivorous, and we go through 3 gallons of cow's milk per week, I really didn't fit in with that bunch.

 

[bellebuzzntink]

My DD was 3 months old when I had to go back to work. The nursing in the mornings and evenings when I got home was exactly what I needed to make it through the day and be close to her. I wasn't responding well to the pumping though. I even rented one of those "industrial" pumps from the hospital. Let me tell you, that was a lot of fun carrying that thing back and forth from work on Monday mornings/Friday evenings! I think it weighed 30 pounds!

It was a hard decision to make, and it was difficult to switch DD to formula, but in the end it was the right decision. She wasn't getting the nutrition from me that she needed to thrive and grow. I found other ways to be close to her, we did just fine!

The funny thing is, she has been the healthiest of all 3 children I've had...the other two were nursed for a year plus. Everyone else will have a cold, be wheezing and sniffling, and she rarely seems affected! Of course this has spoiled her....as soon as she gets the smallest cough or sneeze, she overreacts to it and things she is entitled to stay home from school (she's 10 now)!

Good luck with your dilema!

 

[crisi]

When aliens come and enslave us - my role will not be as a dairy cow.

I could not keep up production at all without both pumping and feeding - stopped one or the other and it was over. Pumping took forever - and I had a hospital pump. Fenugeek did nothing.

If you are enjoying breastfeeding, I'd just suppliment for as long as you want to continue - my daughter rejected the breast at about six months

 

[maymom96]

If you want to keep breastfeeding, why not buy a Supplemental Nursing System (SNS). Fill it with formula and try it for a few weeks. The sucking may stimulate your milk supply. If it doesn't, you can still use it and have the closeness that you found while you were producing milk.
Here is a page that sells them, just scroll almost to the bottom of the page: http://www.medela.com/NewFiles/specialtyfdg.html
http://www.selfexpressions.com/supnursys.html
Here is some information about it:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supplemental_nursing_system
http://www.healthquest-nf.com/suppnursSys.htm

 

[Disneymom in TX]

A few suggestions. You might try to have a picture of your baby as you pump or even her voice (cries). This helped me with both of my kids. If possible go to a hospital with a breastfeeding center they might be able to reccomend a different pump. I used two different pumps (not by choice the first one I loved gave out half through the second baby) I have to say the first was wonderful and if I had had the 2nd to begin with I don't think I would have made it. I nursed the 1st for 12 months and the 2nd for 14 months. Please don't feel guilty. You are doing the best you can and that's all anyone can ask for.

 

[Ellielovesdisney]

I don't really have any advice...but I just went through the same thing. I went back to work at 6 weeks and really wanted to BF DS (4.5 months) until 6 months. I only bf DD until 6 weeks and wanted to do more this time. Punping worked well for some time...but I gradually decreased frequency and I think this really diminished my supply. I finally gave up pumping at work 2 weeks ago and thought I could still BF in the morning and at night. Unfortunately my supply quickly reduced even farther and I am pretty sure there is nothing coming out anymore. I know there are ways to reestablish, but that doesn't make too much sense since I was only going to do it a little while longer. I feel like I should be proud I did so well this time with my crazy work schedule...but it still makes me sad. I guess I am just a little upset that this is my last baby and he is already getting older, and will be eating solids soon, and will be walking soon, and then will graduate and move out!!! Ok...maybe I am a little emotional...anyway...Can I join your club?

 

[Disney 'Ohana]

You should be proud of yourself. You've given him a wonderful start.

I really think a happy mommy = a happy baby. Only you can decide what's best for your family.

 

[Nanu57v]

I don't have advice either. I too was an AWFUL pumper. It would take me like 30 minutes to get 1, MAYBE 2 oz. I had the Avent Isis which worked wonders for a friend, but not for me. Fortunately I was able to have her at work with me and just yanked her out of her classroom when she was hungry. However, if I wasn't able to do that, there was NO WAY I would've been able to pump for her. The thing I was going to try next was an electric pump though, so I'd try that if you hadn't. If not, and be happy with all the efforts you've been going through. You've put forth a great effort.