OT: How do you handle a saucy child???

[pl'smama]

I am at my wit's end and I am not sure what to do about it. My DD is four and will not listen to a word I say. I have put her in time outs,, taken away toys, even put away all the Easter candy, but to no avail. I do not want to spank her. I am afraid that this shows her violence in anger is okay and for me it is not okay. But I don't know what to do. I end up yelling at her which makes us both upset.

Can anyone help please? I know she will outgrow this behavior sometime, but I am not sure I can last that long.

She "sauces" back with no problem and that just makes matters worse. Her new thing is to repeat everything I say. I really hate that little game so it is like fuel to the fire. THe worse part is it all happens in the evening, after I pick her up from the sitter. DH is at work and does not get home until after we are both in bed so I get the whole show to myself. There are no other children to help buffer us either.

Any words of wisdom?? Thank you.

 

[MikeKV]

Well, i'm no expert but my dw and I have a dd4. She can be exactly as you describe. What 4yr old isn't at times? We have also never spanked her and have never raised her voice to her. When timeouts don't work the power of negotiation works a lot with us. I know you've said you've tried but here's an example. I brought my dd4 to the grocery store this past weekend while my wife stayed home to nap. While in the grocery store my dd4 insisted on wanting more trix yogurt. I told her no because we already had plenty at home. She began to scream as we walked away. I gently leaned down and softly said dd if you continue to act like this we will not be going to the toy store that I promised to take her to. She immediately became quite and was an angel the rest of the day . I even surprised myself .

Hope this helps.

 

[MikeKV]

.

 

[Aristomommy]

I can only speak from personal experience so see if any of this applies to you. DD8 was very strong willed as a toddler all the way to age 4. Although she may have given me a hard time, she learned quickly that I mean what I say. If we were at a grocery store and she would act up, we would leave immediately (I hated returning a cart with items in it to an associate ) and we would stay in the car or go home until she was ready to listen and behave. I would always explain to her the reason for the rules (you have to stay with me and hold my hand because you can get lost in a big store etc.) and we would not go back in until she was ready to behave. Some days we would not go back, other days she would scream and fuss in the car for a while. I paid little attention to her fits and remained very calm. I did not want her to see that she could manipulate with this kind of behavior.

Over time her behavior changed and with more maturity she calmed down and is wonderful now It's hard to believe she is the same person. I just wanted to tell you this so you know it can be changed. Just be very consistent with whatever method you choose. And be sure to reward good behavior. HTH

 

[LilBlackSheep]

She "sauces" back with no problem and that just makes matters worse. Her new thing is to repeat everything I say. I really hate that little game so it is like fuel to the fire. THe worse part is it all happens in the evening, after I pick her up from the sitter. DH is at work and does not get home until after we are both in bed so I get the whole show to myself. There are no other children to help buffer us either.

Any words of wisdom?? Thank you.

Ignore it. She see's and senses that it gets to you so she will continue. Consistency is the key.

Our son has been like this since he was 2 1\2. He's now 13. Whenever you feel like the situation is beginning to turn sour, change its direction. Like the pp said, if you are in a store and the saucyness (is that a word) begins...don't accept it...flat out leave the store right then and there. If it happens at home...walk away without saying a word.

She'll soon get the idea that she's not the one in control.

 

[mla2177]

I'm sooo glad to hear I'm not the only one!!!! I am going through this with my 3 yr old DS right now! I was just saying to my DH last night I am at my wits end with him too! I have tried everything also and don't know what to do either.

 

[dpratt68]

I agree with previous posters to a point. You can't give her a reaction when she is behaving this way because that is what she is looking for but you also can't bribe. She knows she has gotten to you if you react everytime she repeats you. I teach kindergarten and you would not believe how many parents come in for open house or conferences and expect to hear the worst or tell me how awful their child is. I have good control over my class of inclusion students because I am consistent. From day one they know what is expected of them and the rules don't change. We use a traffic light behavior wheel. Everyone starts on green and if they break a rule they go to yellow (this means loss of 5 mins play time) if they continue to challenge the rules they go to red(this means loss of all play time). We never raise our voices we just calmly walk to the wheel and move their name. It doesn't take long before they realize they don't want to be on red while all their friends are playing. Try some type of behavior program keep it simple and consistent. good luck!

 

[canwegosoon]

Ignore the bad stuff(to a point ofcourse-my boys do get sent to their room or loose TV or Xbox)...but praise the good stuff. If you catch her playing nicely...oh thank you for playing so good, or in a store...we save the cookie at the bakery for the last thing-you were great in the store, so lets go get a cookie. Don't get into the buying habit, just say thank you and a little attention(which is what all kids want anyway)...good luck.

 

[gris gris]

Buy the book 1-2-3 Magic by Dr. Thomas Phelan, read it (it's very easy to read) and then implement it. My DD4 was the same way as yours. My Pediatrician recommended the book and we've been using the method for a few months and our lives are completely different now.

I was skeptical at first, it's basically counting to 3 and when you get to 3 they get a time out or remove a privilege. Time outs don't work in our house, but taking away a Build A Bear for the night so she can't sleep with it does. She slapped me in the face at a baby shower when we first started this so we went home and I took away ALL of her bears, put them in a garbage bag and into the garage. This really affected her - she earned them all back in a few days. Since then, I've only had to take 2 bears as we've only gotten to 3 twice. There is no more arguing or screaming in our house, it's quite peaceful here now.

The books also describes how to reward the good stuff your child does.

 

[Mean Queen]

We used charts for good behavior for DD when she was younger. For each time she did something good or nice, she'd get a mark. For each time she did something bad (like backtalk), we'd take a mark away. I posted it up on her door for anyone to see. She hated the idea of anyone seeing in writing that she was bad, so she tried extra hard to be good. Plus, if she had a certain amount of marks, she'd get rewarded. Not that backtalking is a thing of the past, but we have managed to get it down to just when she's in a really bad mood.

 

[DisneyArk]

I agree with previous posters to a point. You can't give her a reaction when she is behaving this way because that is what she is looking for but you also can't bribe. She knows she has gotten to you if you react everytime she repeats you. I teach kindergarten and you would not believe how many parents come in for open house or conferences and expect to hear the worst or tell me how awful their child is. I have good control over my class of inclusion students because I am consistent. From day one they know what is expected of them and the rules don't change. We use a traffic light behavior wheel. Everyone starts on green and if they break a rule they go to yellow (this means loss of 5 mins play time) if they continue to challenge the rules they go to red(this means loss of all play time). We never raise our voices we just calmly walk to the wheel and move their name. It doesn't take long before they realize they don't want to be on red while all their friends are playing. Try some type of behavior program keep it simple and consistent. good luck!

The green, yellow and red thing really works. My DS was a hand full at 4. His teacher used this method and it worked well at school and so I started it at home. I DID NOT THINK IT WOULD WORK. It seemed too simple. But DS decided he did not want to be on red. He didn't even seem to care what the reward was for staying on green or what the consequence was for going to red - he just wanted to stay on green all day long. I was shocked!

As the poster I quoted said, you have to be consistent. Don't give in whenever you feel bad for losing your temper. Don't give in when you feel sorry for them and then seem so remorseful. I think as parents we don't realize how often we back down and even though the child seems like an angel at the moment - deep inside they know they just won a huge battle. So I learned it was ok for me to express sympathy for DS, but I still didn't remove the consequence. I also learned to use small consequences that I could live with and not to ever threaten anything that I wouldn't actually do.

Also, as others have mentioned, at 4 taking away a favorite toy worked much better than time out for my DS.

 

[sammyteach]

Itshard hard hard because at the end of the day we all love our children so much and they are quick to learn how to push our buttons.
I teach and have no problems with behaviour (and I work with some challenging kids). My philosophy is I'm the boss and I mean what I say if you keep the rules we have a lovely, rewarding fun times if you dont you know that we will not have fun. Make the good times really fun all your attention and praise and the "bad " times .....timeout or missing treats really really boring and kids soon get the message and are much happier. Children generally like stability and "being in the good books"i t makes them feel safe and secure.
Also dont over talk or negotiate problems it negates your power as parent or responsible adult.
I liked the book "how to raise Happy boys " ..... I think it was called that had lots of sensible advice and loving fun ideas ....

Best wishes

 

[MSSANDRA]

I don't agree that she will outgrow it, it think you have to stop it now or it will get worse as she gets older.

I think a big factor is that it happens right after you pick her up from the sitters. She WANTS your attention and will get it either with postive or negative behavior. I would plan that first 15 minutes after you pick her up very carefully. Tell her that you want your time together to be fun and that can not happen if you are both fussing at each other. Try having a snack in the car for her and focus 100% of your attention on her for the first few minutes. Perhaps establish some routines such as taking turns choosing what you will have for dinner ,or the route you will take home.

Also be sure she is getting the attention she needs at the sitters and that there are not older age children being "saucy" with her afterschool.

Now when, and it will, the behavior starts, give her one warning and then administer whatever action your decide on. Be very careful to choose something that you can do EVERY time. Ignoring it can work great as long as you can do that. I would adress it with " I am not doing to talk with you when you talk like that" and then totally ignore it. If you are not able to do that , decide what you can do but do it EVERY time. It might be going to her room or no bedtime story or whatever works. Good luck. It is smart to get control now.

 

[mousemomof2]

Funny this subject is on here. I just borrowed a book from the library called, Parenting the Strong-willed child. My daughter is 6 and out of control. We have allowed this to go on too long. I really hope this works. Good luck with your challenge.

 

[pl'smama]

I am so amazed by all the replies and helpful advice. Thank you everyone or your imput. I think there is a common thread in most of it and I am going to try some. It is so hard to look at a tear stained face that is saying, "I'm sorry Mama" and not cave, but I have to be strong.

It is nice to know to, that I am not alone in all this.

Oh, just as an aside, we had a great night tonight. No yelling, backtalk or sauciness. Maybe there is hope for us yet.

Thanks again everyone, I appreciate your taking the time to help.

Suz

 

[Nezgrrl]

I used 1-2-3 Magic, too, and I highly suggest it. However, we've had to go just one warning, because my daughter would take it to two every single time. She is also the biggest drama queen in the universe. I would love to take the word "never" and "ever" (as in "Am I never going to play with my toys ever again?) out of her vocabulary.

I'm glad you had a good night. It's so hard when you love your children and want to have fun with them, to have them being hateful or mean back at you.

Jen

 

[mhm]

What we have found with our dd4 is that she does much better when we focus on what she does right. We created a responsibility chart for her, and included some chores (such as feeding the cats and putting away her toys), expected actions (such as getting ready for bed without stalling), and expected behavior (such as being nice, not hitting, not whining). She would get a magnet for each item each day, and a special one at the end of the week. This was reward enough for her--we didn't have to bribe her. It makes our expectations clear, and having responsibilities seems to make her feel more grown-up without having to talk back to feel that way.

I also belong to a bb for parents of kids born the same month as my dd--you should know you are not alone. We are all experiencing the same thing!

 

[kelscross]

My youngest is 5 1/2 and still a handful at times. A year ago, when the tantrums were at their worst (or I was just at my wits end whichever the case), I talked to her pediatrician about them. The ped pretty much went with the super nanny approach

I sit her in the spot and tell her the time out begins when she is quiet and on her bottom. She gets up I put her back in the spot and say it again. She gets up, I put her back on the spot and say nothing, make no eye contact. Repeat putting her in the spot, saying nothing, no eye contact until she sits for the number of minutes according to age ie: 5 years old...5 minutes.

It took well over an hour or more the first few times. It was very tiring for me. But don't give in! That's the key...being consistent.

Sure she still gets time outs, she's a strong willed child. However, it is a rarity that we go through the hour long process anymore.

 

[PoppyAnna]

I'm so glad I found this thread.
My DD turned 4 two weeks ago and turned into a different child!
She answers back, shouts at us, pulls toys away from her [younger] sister and has terrible tantrums.
We also do not smack (illegal here in the UK anyway!). We have used time outs, rewards systems, positive praise, 123, taking toys away etc. These seem to have lost their effect.
Last week she was off pre school for easter holidays and it was particularly bad and it has continued into this week also. I continue to praise her good points and ignore the bad and we maybe getting somewhere.
I spoke with DH last night as I'm worried this could seriously impact the vacation as we leave in 8 days. Our youngest DD19mo is a real handful and I think we fell into the trap of thinking our eldest would always be the easy going child she has been in the past - boy, has that changed!!!
The worst thing is that they are both very restless at night also so we are sleep deprived which makes tempers flare more.
Thanks for all the postings of advice, I have def learned something, I try to be consistent and promote "tough love". However, it is hard when 8 days from the holiday DH has worked so hard for and been planned for so long her Cinderella dress is put away high in my closet where she cannot reach it - I look at her and think she seems so sad about her behaviour.....but I cannot crack I must see it through. Two more days and she can have it back!

 

[ninahbear]

I would suggest reading the book The Strong Willed Child.