OT-dog behavior

[littlelulu33]

Can't imagine why it's so hard to understand how a dog can bite while having a Gentle Leader on. It's got nothing to do with his mouth. It's just like a halter on a horse. Many people did stop and ask why my beautiful golden was muzzled though. I would then stick my hand in the dogs mouth to show it wasn't a muzzle.

I do know that it wasn't a muzzle and that it could happen. But when I called and told the behaviorist what happened and how it happen, it was more of an attack with the Gentle Leader on she said that she had never heard of it happening. It usually is such a good tool for helping your dog knows who is boss. Since our dog never showed aggression towards DH --only me and the company that came over that it was a issue that the dog was boss and the gentle leader usually changes that or at least that is what we were told. I know that we tried everything that we could to "save" our dog we really did love him very much, but when everyone at the vet and the behaviorist said he most likely is not going to change considering how many things we tried. We did get him from the humane society when he was about 4 months old, we are not sure what happened to him before then.

 

[CowboyCO]

We had a wonderful small dog (Bichon). He was very cute, and very loving. He was crate trained, house trained and we had two chidren DS(8&6). We had some friends over to watch the Bears game on TV and they brought their toddler daughter. After they had been here for an hour and the dog was no longer whining in his kennel, I gave DS6 permission to get him out of the kennel. He came downstairs, made a beeline for the toddler and bit her on the face.

We got him into training immediately , had him checked at the vet and things seemed to be OK. We had lots of kids over for Bday parties and no issues. Then at a B-day party, we had Doggie in Kennel because one of our friends haqd a toddler and there was a lot of activity. Well, one of the kids at the party let the dog out and he made a beeline to the toddler and bit him twice on the hands.

Well, the father of that child was a dog trainer. He explained to me that there was something wired wrong in this dog. He had a fear of little kids and rather express dominance by nipping, he was actually biting. He said that even with training and diligence, he would always be a biting dog. He said we would haveto be perfect for the rest of his life to prevent him from biting. Plus, he bites little kids.. Doggy is gone.

We bow have a sweet bichon/poodle cross and all is good and we are doing LOTS of socialization.

 

[aka-mad4themouse]

I'm going to move this over to the CB. There are a lot of dog-lovers who post over there who may have some useful information for you. My own advice is to take the necessary steps to correct this behavior now. Even if the cost is hefty. The price of the mental & physical scars caused by dog bites is way more than you want to pay. Good luck, OP.

 

[Crazy4Disney72]

I'm going to move this over to the CB. There are a lot of dog-lovers who post over there who may have some useful information for you. My own advice is to take the necessary steps to correct this behavior now. Even if the cost is hefty. The price of the mental & physical scars caused by dog bites is way more than you want to pay. Good luck, OP.

Thank you all for your advice. I will be calling the vet on Monday to see if she can recommend a dog behavior specialist who can possibly help us. Budget-wise, I'm not looking forward to the expense, but we love Winston, he's a member of the family and if one of the kids needed treatment, we'd get it, so we will certainly try to the best of our ability to get help for our dog. I'm NOT saying the dog is on equal grounds as the kids, but I do love him and I feel like I must do everything in my power to honor my commitment to him.

 

[MushyMushy]

Is he really protective of his food? Have you tried reaching down to move his food dish while he's eating? I think behaviorists do this to see how aggressive they are. I think if you can easily take their food away from them, they're not seen as aggressive.

We LOVE that show

And I know they are casting in the USA. She has done miricles with some NASTy UK dogs,

I love Victoria Stilwell! That show is so great. I've learned a lot from both her and Cesar Milan -- and I've been around dogs my entire life.

Can't imagine why it's so hard to understand how a dog can bite while having a Gentle Leader on. It's got nothing to do with his mouth. It's just like a halter on a horse. Many people did stop and ask why my beautiful golden was muzzled though. I would then stick my hand in the dogs mouth to show it wasn't a muzzle.

I do know that it wasn't a muzzle and that it could happen. But when I called and told the behaviorist what happened and how it happen, it was more of an attack with the Gentle Leader on she said that she had never heard of it happening. It usually is such a good tool for helping your dog knows who is boss. Since our dog never showed aggression towards DH --only me and the company that came over that it was a issue that the dog was boss and the gentle leader usually changes that or at least that is what we were told. I know that we tried everything that we could to "save" our dog we really did love him very much, but when everyone at the vet and the behaviorist said he most likely is not going to change considering how many things we tried. We did get him from the humane society when he was about 4 months old, we are not sure what happened to him before then.

What??? I've never heard such nonsense about the Gentle Leader. It's a walking tool, and yes, it can be used for other purposes like a dog who jumps or lunges. But no tool will take the place of a firm presence. I have an aggressive dog (one MUCH bigger than a JRT), and I would never in a million years rely on a Gentle Leader for anything more than having more control while walking her.

 

[Crazy4Disney72]

Is he really protective of his food? Have you tried reaching down to move his food dish while he's eating? I think behaviorists do this to see how aggressive they are. I think if you can easily take their food away from them, they're not seen as aggressive.



I don't know, I've never tried moving his dish while he's eating. If somebody accidently drops something he's right there, but he doesn't jump up and try to get our food while we are eating.

 

[Rafiki Rafiki Rafiki]

My first inclination was to think he might be having trouble seeing or hearing.

Watch him closely and try to track what happens immediately prior to his snapping. If you can figure out what happens leading up to the behavior, it might be cheaper to treat with a behaviorist--or you might even be able to find answers on the internet.

 

[MushyMushy]

I don't know, I've never tried moving his dish while he's eating. If somebody accidently drops something he's right there, but he doesn't jump up and try to get our food while we are eating.

Check out this link on temperament testing: http://www.nrta.com/breedforfoundation/temptest.html If you scroll down past the puppy test, there is one for adult dogs.

Another thing you mentioned is that you've been "cautious" with him. It's possible that he's now responding to your change in attitude, and vice versa. Don't act afraid or hesitant. Be firm, just like you would with a child who lashed out. If one of my kids hit me, I wouldn't act afraid, but I'd probably become much more strong-handed with them.

But anyway, none of what you get here is professional advice, and can't take the place of it. There's a behaviorist who is involved with our local humane society and she has come there quite a few times to offer tips to dog owners. We didn't have to spend a dime to have her work with our dog and show us how to handle her. Call around and see what there is out there... maybe try a local university that has a veterinary program, because they'll have plenty of animal experts there.

Good luck.

 

[hoosll]

You need to understand what the sheltie was bred to do ... he is a working dog, usually high energy to stay up with a herd of sheep. We had one when I was growing up and he loved to chase cars and he would also herd people by nipping at them. Make sure that your dogs gets LOTS of exercise, you could also try a backpack which can provide a way to burn more energy. Train the dog to fetch as that can burn a lot of energy but can also become an obsession so you must learn how to end the game.

Cesar Milan has a great new book on integrating a dog into your family. Also, remember that when you crate the dog to keep him away from your children and their friends, he may also feel frustrated to be away from his pack.

 

[goofy4tink]

Is he really protective of his food? Have you tried reaching down to move his food dish while he's eating? I think behaviorists do this to see how aggressive they are. I think if you can easily take their food away from them, they're not seen as aggressive.



I love Victoria Stilwell! That show is so great. I've learned a lot from both her and Cesar Milan -- and I've been around dogs my entire life.

What??? I've never heard such nonsense about the Gentle Leader. It's a walking tool, and yes, it can be used for other purposes like a dog who jumps or lunges. But no tool will take the place of a firm presence. I have an aggressive dog (one MUCH bigger than a JRT), and I would never in a million years rely on a Gentle Leader for anything more than having more control while walking her.

Yep...my feeling as well. It prevents them from pulling, not showing them who is 'the boss'. My dog knows who's the boss....we've had this 'discussion' several times in his 8 yrs...sometimes he forgets and I have to remind him!!! But, he knows who the alpha is in our house.
Dogs sense any hesitancy on the part of their owner. Then, they think they've taken over. You're hesitant, the dog 'wins' so to speak. He has imposed his will on you...plain and simple.

Get help from a professional. It's hard to rescue a dog because we have no idea what his 'baggage' is. And all the good intentions won't help us if we don't understand that baggage. Besides, a dog is a dog, not a human. They have a vastly different way of looking at life. Most things are instinctual in them. Shelties work keeping track of herds of sheep. They nip at those bad sheep that leave the pack.....it's the dogs job to nip and snap. So, put that dog into a situation where he may feel it's the right thing to do, based on his 'job description' as a breed, and you could have an issue. But, that doesn't mean he isn't going to be able to relearn stuff. It just takes a firm hand and some outside help.

A short story...we were looking for a new puppy. We found a breeder who had good credentials, was showing her dogs, she was doing everything you would want a dog breeder to be doing. So, we asked for a nice female golden this time...had been down the road with the males and really wanted a smaller, more biddable dog. Well, the breeder called me to tell me the litter had been been 'typed' so to speak, and they had the perfect dog for us. Only thing was that it was a male. The breeder told me that she had a female we could have but she really thought we were the right family for this male. Seems he tested as being somewhat stubborn and independent. She figured that I had been down that road and she felt that I could handle a bit more foreceful pup than someone else. Well, we took him, he's a wonderful dog, but man, is he stubborn. Not sure why he sometimes thinks he's gonna win the battle, but he tries to get away with it. Never works for him. I remind him....he's the dog, I'm the pack leader...he's the brave, I'm the chief...I hand out the food, he eats it.
You have to understand where the dog is coming from. Then you can work with him, so that both your family and the dog are happy. There is nothing better than a well socialized dog within a happy family. It's just so darn American and Normal Rockwell!!!

 

[MeanLaureen]

A dog needs to be exercised, especially a 'working breed'. If they don't have a job to do, they just get nutty.

Exactly what I was going to say. Sometimes working breeds need a job or routine to keep them happy. You see a lot of Shelties doing obstacle courses at dog shows. I'm not saying you should attempt to do full blown obstacle training and enter shows, but maybe if you have the room in your backyard, put up a couple of small hurdles or jumps that you have the dog run through for 15-20 minutes a day to give it a chance to burn some energy and to give it a routine.

 

[Crazy4Disney72]

I took Winston to the vet last week to make sure there was nothing medically wrong with him that would cause his aggressive behavior. She looked him over and said he seemed very healthy and asked me to describe what had been going on with him. Once I told her all about it, she said it sounded like classic dominance behavior and that it was not at all uncommon in dogs between 1 and 2 years old, he was like a teenage boy testing his limits. Once he saw that we were afraid of him, he knew he was the one in control and we needed to take that control back. The first thing that we needed to do was stop letting him up on the sofa and beds.

She suggested we get several spray bottles and fill them with half vinegar, half water. When Winston is up on the sofa or beds, we are to say 'OFF!' very strongly. If he doesn't listen, spray him, aiming for the chest. He will not like the smell and if he licks, will not like the taste. She said it shouldn't take more than a few times before he got the hint.

It only took once! Now all we have to do is say 'OFF!' and he's off, if he even gets up, he rarely does anymore. If he jumps up on us, we say the same thing and it works, instantly. She also told us to have him sit before we give him any attention, as well as have him sit before he gets his food, sit before he goes out (and we go through the door first) sit before he comes in, etc. He is doing great with that. I am so relieved to say that he is a reformed dog! I am still cautious, and I told the kids to not get their faces near his, but he hasn't so much as even growled at anyone since last Thursday night when he went to the vet!

I just wanted to update everyone!

 

[DisneygirlTeacher]

Yea, Winston!!! Glad to hear he's doing better!!