Orange County might have to pay off RCID debts?

[OKW Lover]

People - fighting about what each other posts will get this thread locked.

 

[Robbie Cottam]

Grandstand would be if they hadn't followed through on it.
Presidential order take effect immediately, law almost always have an effective date to give everyone a chance to prepare.
If you passed a law today the outlawed alcohol, right now. You would have a lot of people with inventory they could neither get rid of or legally own. Laws almost always come with an effective date. That is why the Florida legislature gave 18 months. So that everyone could figure ever thing out! So Orange County doesn't get stuck picking up the tab with no revenue to support the change, So Disney, and the 4 other important Districts had a chance to reapply, so that Orange County could interview and hire the first responders that current work for RCID if needed... That is the reason for the delay, it is the normal and prudent course of business.... But what do I know I'm neither a republican nor democrat..... I actually think before I take a side in an argument!

it was CLEARLY grandstanding as they pushed back the law's effects until next year, after the election. The republicans don’t have a plan, just wanted a look to show that they’re 'tough'

 

[Douglas Dubh]

Robbie Cottam expressed his opinion - which is the opposite of mine - but also partisan. Why didn’t you have a problem with his comment?

His post didn’t mention republicans or democrats. He didn’t claim one party or the other was acting for less than noble reasons. And he didn’t try to claim his opinion was CLEARLY right.

 

[middlechild]

There are many questions that have yet to be answered on how RCID will be wound down. Logic would support the idea if Disney was paying RCID for debt service, they could also pay Orange County for debt service. A better question might be for the bond holders, how much change would they accept to refinance that debt with Orange County as the payee? Would they demand some small increase in interest rates to offset the re-financing charges? I think we will have to wait and see...

 

[jade1]

Yes they could but who would actually sell them a new bond offering right now?

Sounds like we agree, I kinda mentioned the same thing in the next sentence.

Couldn't they push debt even higher over the next year, and maybe sell off assets somehow?

I suppose nobody would invest in a new WDW bond though with this up in the air.

 

[Robbie Cottam]

Correct, but Orange County will be hurt the most if RCID does indeed get dissolved. But there's still obstacles that Tallahassee overlooked, particularly the law that requires district residents to hold a referendum or plebiscite on district dissolution. But even so, they would not be in favour, and any other Tallahassee effort is doomed to fail either way.

NO ON KNOWS IF Orange Country will be hurt... The laws that will control this matter have yet to be written. Please give this matter time to play out

 

[jade1]

Would they demand some small increase in interest rates to offset the re-financing charges? I think we will have to wait and see...

This could get sticky with rates taking off.

 

[New Mouse]

NO ON KNOWS IF Orange Country will be hurt... The laws that will control this matter have yet to be written. Please give this matter time to play out

They can't arbitrarily create a law that will hurt Disney. They are bound by existing laws in play. Disney would sue them into next century if there were going to be a huge impact financially or otherwise. Disney is saying nothing because at the end of the day they know nothing is going to come of this.

 

[Kestryl]

Yes they could but who would actually sell them a new bond offering right now?

I’d take that a step farther. Who would want to sell a bond offering to any business in Florida at this point? Seems pretty risky if Florida can just change the rules of the game.

 

[JFDIS]

 

[JFDIS]

This is from DeSantis spokesperson today. Mods please remove if this breaks any rules.

 

[Anna131517]

Orange County would have to pay unless a law or ordinance is passed. I have a feeling that an ordinance at the very least will happen. Both the governor and the mayor could benefit.

Why would Orange County have to pay? The state underwrote the bonds in that legislation, not Orange County. I think the State of Florida should have taken the time to think this through. They’re looking at assuming $1B in debt, lawsuits from bond holders, and first amendment lawsuits from Disney and their shareholders.

 

[bcla]

There are many questions that have yet to be answered on how RCID will be wound down. Logic would support the idea if Disney was paying RCID for debt service, they could also pay Orange County for debt service. A better question might be for the bond holders, how much change would they accept to refinance that debt with Orange County as the payee? Would they demand some small increase in interest rates to offset the re-financing charges? I think we will have to wait and see...

Simple answer is that Disney pays taxes imposed by RCID, and they're the only entity paying RCID property taxes. Apparently they're allowed to impose up to 3x the general property tax rate that counties can tax, which Disney is additionally paying Orange/Osceola Counties for the property it owns. My understanding is that the counties can't force just Disney to pay to service any former RCID debt upon dissolution without setting up another special district to take over the liabilities. If the debt transfers to the counties, servicing would have to come out of the counties' general property tax revenue.

 

[bbeagle]

he didn’t try to claim his opinion was CLEARLY right.

he said it was CLEARLY not grandstanding.
I said it was CLEARLY grandstanding.

 

[sheilafri]

Two additional issues I’ve read about. First is that there is a state law which requires the residents of a special district to approve its dissolution. I’m going to guess this includes lots of Disney lovers who want to be close by and if reports of the counties having to take over debts of the special district are accurate they may not want to shoulder that burden. Second, there is case law that holds that withdrawal of a privilege cannot be used to punish an individual. Based on how this law was structured and statements by DeSantis this was aimed at Disney and could be seen as an abridgment of their right to free speech.

 

[bcla]

Why would Orange County have to pay? The state underwrote the bonds in that legislation, not Orange County.

Not specifically underwriting. Some have looked up state law on what happens and apparently it's supposed to revert to a county government obligation. The special district was one that essentially just taxed Disney. But if it reverts to the counties, they have to service it from the ad valorem taxes that everyone pays equally. So they could raise those taxes to cover it.

https://www.wftv.com/news/local/end...re-taxes-you-will/3TK6ASNJT5EXHICW3DQ3ZHEZYA/​

Effectively, Disney’s loss of control also hands it a $163 million per year tax break. If the entire state of Florida was responsible for covering the hole, each taxpayer would have to cough up roughly $7.50.​

******​

Salvaging the budgets won’t be pretty. State law prevents the counties from raising sales taxes or impact fees to cover the costs. They also must tax all areas of the county equally, meaning whatever they enact must apply to everyone.​

​

That leaves one avenue: property taxes, of which Orange County collects approximately $600 million per year right now.​

 

[Ms Bibbidi]

Orange County might have to pay off RCID debts

Interesting article about 1 of the possible consequences of the legislation recently passed by the Florida legislature and signed by the governor.

Upon dissolution all of the assets and debts of the RCID will go to the governmental entities (counties, cities or a new joint powers authority). Debts include the bonds. Assets could include RCID’s right to payment of those bonds from Disney. However if, for example the bond paid for a sewer system that will become a public sewer system, the government receives the sewer system just like in any county or other part of the state and that part of the bond would rightfully belong to the entity gaining the sewer system. If it is part of the electrical grid, the government would own that and the right to bill Disney for utility payments. So it is not as easy as just shifting debt without also shifting assets and the rights mto the streams of income along with it. It is not as if Disney issued bonds and just flew off to Tahiti with the money. They spent it on things the RCID now owns. Government bonds can be backed by the power of taxation so the bond holders will be safe. I am sure we will see many “opinions” forecasting doom and disaster. No transition like this is ever perfect and smooth, but both the government and Disney have the time and expertise to work it out.

 

[bcla]

Two additional issues I’ve read about. First is that there is a state law which requires the residents of a special district to approve its dissolution. I’m going to guess this includes lots of Disney lovers who want to be close by and if reports of the counties having to take over debts of the special district are accurate they may not want to shoulder that burden.

If that law is determined to be in force, that law says it's those who elect the district board who have the right to vote on the referendum. Reedy Creek board members are elected by the landowners. Guess who that is?

 

[BK2014]

Tallahassee didn't over look anything. If they want to change the law, well they are the law makers.
Laws change.

With as fast as this law was passed, I don't know how anyone could have possibly thoroughly researched all of the possible outcomes, both intended and unintended.

 

[Robbie Cottam]

They can't arbitrarily create a law that will hurt Disney. They are bound by existing laws in play. Disney would sue them into next century if there were going to be a huge impact financially or otherwise. Disney is saying nothing because at the end of the day they know nothing is going to come of this.

I’m pretty sure I read a civics book once.
Im para phrasing here but the purpose of the legislatures is to make laws.

The can not make retro active Laws.
But the code make a law that says no special districts in Florida. All special district will be control by the state legislature .