Oprah Debt Diet Show, Part II

[kaseyC]

I agree, they may not be able to keep the house in the long run, I just don't think the very first thing they should do is put the house on the market. In their situation, I'd try every other possible option first. Besides, if Lisa can't stop the hair appointments, how do you think selling her dream home is going to go over?

Just on a side note, does anyone know if Lisa works, or is she a SAHM? If she's a SAHM, the answer may lie in her going back to work.

IIRC, I think Lisa is a Social Worker and her husband a Government worker.

I also believe both couples need some serious marriage counseling. Lisa and Marnie both have very low opinions of their husbands and the need for complete dominance.
I just think of Marnie telling her husband to F-off when he called her on not selling some of their DD's jeans. Also Lisa when she went to the bank to close her personal accounts so they could open a joint account - she made a nasty comment about having to close her account so her husband could step up and be "a man".

 

[Nicolepa]

Lisa Bradley didn't report everything she actually spent on her spending log. The other family - the husband lied on his log so he could buy beer and not report it and the wife had a debit card she hadn't reported. I understand the need for an occasional treat, but these folks couldn't even go a couple of days without indulging themselves.

But at least the guy in the second family did report everything he spent, he just wasn't totally honest about what he spent it on. Lisa not only didn't report what she spent, but she had no intention of telling anyone even when she was called on it. Who knows what else she spent that her husband didn't know about.

 

[LauraR]

IIRC, I think Lisa is a Social Worker and her husband a Government worker.

I also believe both couples need some serious marriage counseling. Lisa and Marnie both have very low opinions of their husbands and the need for complete dominance.
I just think of Marnie telling her husband to F-off when he called her on not selling some of their DD's jeans. Also Lisa when she went to the bank to close her personal accounts so they could open a joint account - she made a nasty comment about having to close her account so her husband could step up and be "a man".

I agree on the counseling. Lisa could also do with some individual counseling. She is threatening to take her whole family down because she can't or won't control her spending habits. And forging her husband's signature to get another car?! Her husband is so exasperated, their marriage is close to the breaking point, and I really don't blame him. How easy does she think it's going to be to maintain that "lifestyle" after a divorce?? Her behavior is self-destructive, but it also hurts everyone in the family, including the kids.

 

[Toby'sFriend]

I agree about the husband. I replayed a bit of it this morning and man does he have a look on his face. The guy is miserable. I'm sure alot of that is from having his life ripped open and played for all of us to critique on National TV ... but I really wonder how long can hold that marriage up fighting her issues.

One thing that really got me, they never showed him making a fuss at all over the gym membership ($70 a month), but her rants over her hair are endless. Between the two shows, I bet Oprah has given a full 20 minutes to coverage on Lisa Bradley's hair.

I'm really shocked to hear that she works. Where does she find the time (in addition to the money) to spend $7k a year in the hair salon with a job and two kids? It's all I can do to find 30 minutes to run in for my $15 hair cut at the Hair Cuttery.

Well between the two families I think the biggest lesson learned is how not controlling your finances can just make you so unhappy, no matter how many tvs you put in your home. The joy just isn't there.

 

[dvcgirl]

Comming to the (slight) defence of the Bradleys

First off, Debt Diet part II shows the changes the families made the first week. Anyone that's ever had a diet knows that the first week is the hardest. Habits are hard to break, things come up that you don't plan for (2 office b-days in one week = lots of cake, for example) and after the 4th day you just want a donut so bad that you'll kill for one. Budgeting, for the Bradley's, is like a 500 pound man trying his hardest not to stop at Krispe Kreame on the way to work. Some days are just going to be easier than others!

One key to sucessful dieting is allowing yourself a treat now and then. Yes, you're 100 pounds overweight, but if you don't have a piece of candy now and then, you're just going to cave one day and eat the whole dang box. Same thing with budgeting, you've got to allow a treat now and then or you're going to go nuts with the Master Card and wipe out any progress you've made.

As for the hair, I don't just think it's an "AA women NEED hair treatments". I think it could also be a cultral thing or a family tradition, to the extent that Lisa Bradely honestly thinks of hair as a "need" and not a "want". Her grandmother and mother most likely went to the salon every week and she just can't fathom not going herself. In her mind, it just isn't an option. It's going to take some time for her to really realize that she needs to cut back or find other options for her hair, or make sacrifices in other areas to allow her to continue these appointments.

Another point, some people said that this family needs to downsize the house and take the money and pay down some of their debt. This is NOT as easy as it sounds. If they are in a hot housing market, they may not be able to downsize because there is nothing to downsize TO (this would be a likely senario where I live). And even if they could, who's going to give them a mortgage with a credit rating like theirs? Plus, moving costs money they don't have, the kids would have to change schools, and whoe knows what else. It may come down to having to sell the house, but it should be a last ditch effort, not the first thing they try. If there is a way to fix their mess without having to sell the house, I say they try it first and see how they do.

There is definatly some deeper issues involved here, and a certain amount of denial about how bad off they really are, and I think they can and should work harder. But I say give this family a few more weeks before jumping all over them. They didn't get into this mess overnight and they won't get out of it overnight, either.

PS- Also, depending on where they live, $102,000 a year GROSS, puts you in the middle class. Around where I live, you can't afford a house in a decent school district on that kind of money. I should know, DH and I together make about that, and we can't even afford a TOWNHOME in the suburb I grew up in. We had to buy a house in a town that has one of the worst school districts in the state, and even that was a stretch. Between the mortgage and property taxes, $102,000 a year doesn't buy much in these parts, not if you don't want to be house poor.

I agree with the diet analogy to a certain degree, but when people are in financial straights such as the one that the Bradleys have put themselves in....well, all luxuries must go. That is, if they even intend to fully pay back all of the debt that they have incurred. I don't think that they can pay it back, not unless they have a 180 degree radical lifestyle change.

She sees the hair thing as a "need" and not a "want" because she simply doesn't know the difference between those two words. To her, everything she wants...she needs. She doesn't seem to get that she can't afford it. She doesn't understand that she should be driving a 10 year old toyota corolla and not a brand new BMW. To her, well, everyone *needs* a car....don't they? Yes, but there is a world of difference between a used Toyota and a BMW. She desperately needs to look like someone who can afford a BMW, because it makes her feel better about herself, like she is someone. I'd venture to say that without all of the "stuff", that she doesn't even know who she is. Her entire identity seems tied to it.

As for downsizing the house, well....for sure they can't afford it. The only downsizing that they could truly afford is into an apartment. I don't know, on that last show, Lisa Bradley did not seem too happy to me. I don't think that she figured on how much of a buzz her finances would cause. Even Oprah said that the response to that show has been record-breaking. Can you imagine going to work as Lisa Bradley these days? Every new outfit she wears, every new hair style, every latte she purchases.....well, everyone will be whispering behind her back...."you know...she's broke, she can't afford those shoes....." "Can you believe that she has the gall to buy that Coach bag, when they're up to their eyeballs in debt." I will never for the life of me understand why people would go on programs like that and air every single detail of their life like that.

 

[barbeml]

I will never for the life of me understand why people would go on programs like that and air every single detail of their life like that.

I really think most of these people who go on Oprah & Dr. Phil believe they are going to get a bail out. Those two are always giving extravagant gifts to guests. When they don't, you often see what I call the "Is that all there is?" face at the end of the show. You can see them thinking: "Where are my freebies???"

 

[Chicago526]

I agree with the diet analogy to a certain degree, but when people are in financial straights such as the one that the Bradleys have put themselves in....well, all luxuries must go. That is, if they even intend to fully pay back all of the debt that they have incurred. I don't think that they can pay it back, not unless they have a 180 degree radical lifestyle change.

She sees the hair thing as a "need" and not a "want" because she simply doesn't know the difference between those two words. To her, everything she wants...she needs. She doesn't seem to get that she can't afford it. She doesn't understand that she should be driving a 10 year old toyota corolla and not a brand new BMW. To her, well, everyone *needs* a car....don't they? Yes, but there is a world of difference between a used Toyota and a BMW. She desperately needs to look like someone who can afford a BMW, because it makes her feel better about herself, like she is someone. I'd venture to say that without all of the "stuff", that she doesn't even know who she is. Her entire identity seems tied to it.

As for downsizing the house, well....for sure they can't afford it. The only downsizing that they could truly afford is into an apartment. I don't know, on that last show, Lisa Bradley did not seem too happy to me. I don't think that she figured on how much of a buzz her finances would cause. Even Oprah said that the response to that show has been record-breaking. Can you imagine going to work as Lisa Bradley these days? Every new outfit she wears, every new hair style, every latte she purchases.....well, everyone will be whispering behind her back...."you know...she's broke, she can't afford those shoes....." "Can you believe that she has the gall to buy that Coach bag, when they're up to their eyeballs in debt." I will never for the life of me understand why people would go on programs like that and air every single detail of their life like that.

I agree with you dvcgirl! They've got their wants and needs all mixed up, and I'm sure they (or just Lisa) have other underlieing issues. I also agree that they have to cut back BIG time, little or no frills.

The point I was trying to make is that if the finance counselor (forgot her name!) tries to take away EVERYTHING, all at once, Lisa (and maybe even hubby) will balk and won't do it at all. Taking a few weeks or even a whole month to work there way up to one hair apointment a month and learning how to cook at home could be the differance between them sticking to their budget and totally blowing it. To use another analogy, it's like quiting smoking. Some people can go cold turkey and just stop, others have to slowly reduce the number of cigs each day and wean themselves off. I think the Bradley's are the type that need to work their way up to "no frills living". Give them a month to aclimate, then see how they are doing. If they (or she) is still fighting the financial counselor every step of the way, trying to justify this and that, hiding spending, cheating on the budget etc. THEN flame them up and down the internet.

 

[dvcgirl]

I agree with you dvcgirl! They've got their wants and needs all mixed up, and I'm sure they (or just Lisa) have other underlieing issues. I also agree that they have to cut back BIG time, little or no frills.

The point I was trying to make is that if the finance counselor (forgot her name!) tries to take away EVERYTHING, all at once, Lisa (and maybe even hubby) will balk and won't do it at all. Taking a few weeks or even a whole month to work there way up to one hair apointment a month and learning how to cook at home could be the differance between them sticking to their budget and totally blowing it. To use another analogy, it's like quiting smoking. Some people can go cold turkey and just stop, others have to slowly reduce the number of cigs each day and wean themselves off. I think the Bradley's are the type that need to work their way up to "no frills living". Give them a month to aclimate, then see how they are doing. If they (or she) is still fighting the financial counselor every step of the way, trying to justify this and that, hiding spending, cheating on the budget etc. THEN flame them up and down the internet.

Oh, I agree, cutting everything all at once would make them not want to do it at all. My point is....too bad, they don't have a choice. Unlike a diet, which, if you decide to cheat is a relatively inexpensive thing to do, cheating on a financial diet, when you are morbidly obese is deadly. In the Bradley's case, they would be beyound gastric bypass surgery where they are....they need their jaws wired shut .

I will bet though, that there will some serious behind the scenes work going on with the Bradleys by Jean Chatsky and the producers of the Oprah show. They will need to work with the creditors in the case of the Bradleys and do some major debt settlement. They'll teach the Bradleys how to do this I'm sure....you owe 12K, offer them 2K, easy peasy. The only saving grace is that the Bradley's credit will be positively destroyed, which is exactly what needs to happen. That's when the Bradleys will learn how to really live on what they make, because nobody will extend them credit.....and that's when Lisa will hopefully learn the difference between "wants" and "needs".

 

[runwad]

That's when the Bradleys will learn how to really live on what they make, because nobody will extend them credit.....and that's when Lisa will hopefully learn the difference between "wants" and "needs".

Why do you think noone will offer then credit??? Geez they've had no problem getting it so far even with the stacks of unpaid bills 3 and 4 years old, what's up with that anyway? How the heck can she keep buying all that stuff on their bad credit, I'm boggled?? I mean c'mon doesn't anyone check a TRW report on her??

 

[disneysteve]

Why do you think noone will offer then credit??? Geez they've had no problem getting it so far even with the stacks of unpaid bills 3 and 4 years old, what's up with that anyway? How the heck can she keep buying all that stuff on their bad credit, I'm boggled?? I mean c'mon doesn't anyone check a TRW report on her??

I agree. Even after folks file bankruptcy, usually within a few months they start getting credit card offers again. The system is seriously flawed thanks to the deregulation of the banking industry.

 

[dvcgirl]

Why do you think noone will offer then credit??? Geez they've had no problem getting it so far even with the stacks of unpaid bills 3 and 4 years old, what's up with that anyway? How the heck can she keep buying all that stuff on their bad credit, I'm boggled?? I mean c'mon doesn't anyone check a TRW report on her??

I honestly don't know how they're doing it. I have a couple of family members who filed and they did not have an easy time getting credit, despite their efforts to obtain it.

 

[PatriciaH]

I think they all need to go out and volunteer some time helping others. They are all able bodied and it is a crying shame how "stuff" rules their lives. Help some folks who really need it. It would be a good thing to teach their children as well.

 

[MrsPete]

I really think most of these people who go on Oprah & Dr. Phil believe they are going to get a bail out. Those two are always giving extravagant gifts to guests. When they don't, you often see what I call the "Is that all there is?" face at the end of the show. You can see them thinking: "Where are my freebies???"

Or, I think some of them are expecting to go on the show and have everyone agree with them: "Yes, everyone's in debt these days. You HAVE TO have your hair done. If you're going to pay for a house, it might as well be what you want." I think some of these people expect to go on TV and have their mistakes validated, they expect to receive pity, they expect to receive emotional support. Not gonna happen in this case.

 

[MrsPete]

Why do you think noone will offer then credit??? Geez they've had no problem getting it so far even with the stacks of unpaid bills 3 and 4 years old, what's up with that anyway? How the heck can she keep buying all that stuff on their bad credit, I'm boggled?? I mean c'mon doesn't anyone check a TRW report on her??

Sadly, this is true. My brother is horrible with money. He still financed a car (I'd hate to know the cost or the interest rate), and he still qualified to rent an apartment. Here's the worst I know personally: he didn't have the money to pay his auto insurance, and they wouldn't take monthly payments from him -- smart people, they'ved learned from experience. So he borrowed from a company that lends money for auto insurance . . . at 48% interest.

He's brilliant, but he just doesn't "get" personal finance.

 

[MrsPete]

I agree. Even after folks file bankruptcy, usually within a few months they start getting credit card offers again. The system is seriously flawed thanks to the deregulation of the banking industry.

And when the credit card companies lend them money and they don't pay, the company writes it off as a bad debt. The result: you and I pay!

This should be illegal. I'd like to see much, much more stringent banking rules. I think it'd lead to an increase in personal responsibility and a general lowering of prices for everyone.

 

[MrsPete]

I think they all need to go out and volunteer some time helping others. They are all able bodied and it is a crying shame how "stuff" rules their lives. Help some folks who really need it. It would be a good thing to teach their children as well.

Now that's one of the best suggestions on this board.

However, if Lisa is a social worker, you would assume that she goes into some pretty tragic homes already. You'd think she'd have some awareness. My mom's a social worker, and sometimes it really gets to her.

 

[dvcgirl]

Now that's one of the best suggestions on this board.

However, if Lisa is a social worker, you would assume that she goes into some pretty tragic homes already. You'd think she'd have some awareness. My mom's a social worker, and sometimes it really gets to her.

Not necessarily...I mean, she's a social worker, but there are a whole lot of different job settings for that career.

 

[disneysteve]

This should be illegal. I'd like to see much, much more stringent banking rules. I think it'd lead to an increase in personal responsibility and a general lowering of prices for everyone.

And that was exactly the situation for decades until banking was deregulated. Read "The Two-Income Family Trap" and you'll get a pretty good history of when and how this happened and what resulted.

 

[disneysteve]

sorry - duplicate post

 

[disneysteve]

However, if Lisa is a social worker, you would assume that she goes into some pretty tragic homes already. You'd think she'd have some awareness. My mom's a social worker, and sometimes it really gets to her.

Of course, her habits may actually be a response to what she sees on the job. "I won't ever let that happen to me" kind of attitude. If she is surrounded by poverty and deprivation all day, she may feel she needs to go home to wealth and plenty and stuff.