Opinions?

[kandlsutton]

Do both! RIV direct to have the ability to book at 11 months and go with 150+ points to get the best discount. RIV point charts are higher, as previously noted, but the additional 13 years (2070 vs. 2057) on the contract were worth it and our kids will take over the contract when we are no longer able. Then buy AKL resale $60+ per point less than direct. The point charts at AKL are very reasonable, Kindani has 2 bathrooms in the 1BR, and Jambo has value and club level rooms, although those are difficult to get.

If you haven't done so yet, use the 2022 point charts to look up the number of points needed for when you are likely to travel. Use that information to determine how many points to purchase, and then round up. Depending on how often you plan to travel, you can buy less points and plan on banking and possibly borrowing. Better to have too many than not enough.

Direct purchase is much easier and faster with points in your account within a few hours of final payment. With resale, its a 2-3 month process before you can use the points. Direct purchase include current use year points but resale contracts vary and may be stripped with no points until 2022 use year or loaded with current points.

Resale points can’t be used to book at Riviera but direct points can be use to book at all current and future resorts. If you ever need to sell the Riviera contract, the buyer will only be able to book at Riviera, which may decrease resale prices and will likely make Riviera harder to book in the future.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

Sure if you call various other people reporting issues and a depressed value both direct, resale, and cash bookings.



Sorry it has cheaper points (product of time) AND cheaper resale and direct price.

Cheaper point charts make it a better deal but then people also skip buying it still even with lower point charts, value rooms, and the only club rooms in DVC.



Also I like AKV in general and stand alone really great resort but many are not buying DVC to sit at the resort. So yes getting to the parks is a primary consideration for some.

Also the primary thing my parents who don't know anything about Disney resorts knew that AKV had the savanna and had bad transportation (they proactively brought it up and I told them not to worry about it because the resort itself is great).

Marketing and sales is very psychological. You cannot assume that pricing means anything more than a calculation of DVC's bottom line. Resale also is affected because if the difference between the two is not enough then people will buy direct.

 

[sethschroeder]

Marketing and sales is very psychological. You cannot assume that pricing means anything more than a calculation of DVC's bottom line. Resale also is affected because if the difference between the two is not enough then people will buy direct.

Except here is the thing DVC is one central group for sales and not broken in to different groups that decide pricing. AKV is priced that way because they can't make extra money. If there are resorts that are "under priced" you could argue SSR/OKW are the "starter resorts" to get you in to DVC.

It is a WIDE gap between resorts like VGF/POLY and AKV its a large gap between resorts like BLT/RIV and AKV. You can like AKV a ton but that doesn't change the gap.

If every resort was exactly the same costs, contract length, and point chart I would expect AKV to "sell out" just before SSR/OKW. You can disagree I would just simply point to the current situation where AKV has the benefit in everything except contract length where its like 38 years vs a BLT 40 / VGF 42 / POLY 44 (roughly) but I doubt 2-6 more years in 40 years is a primary driver on where to purchase.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

Except here is the thing DVC is one central group for sales and not broken in to different groups that decide pricing. AKV is priced that way because they can't make extra money. If there are resorts that are "under priced" you could argue SSR/OKW are the "starter resorts" to get you in to DVC.

It is a WIDE gap between resorts like VGF/POLY and AKV its a large gap between resorts like BLT/RIV and AKV. You can like AKV a ton but that doesn't change the gap.

If every resort was exactly the same costs, contract length, and point chart I would expect AKV to "sell out" just before SSR/OKW. You can disagree I would just simply point to the current situation where AKV has the benefit in everything except contract length where its like 38 years vs a BLT 40 / VGF 42 / POLY 44 (roughly) but I doubt 2-6 more years in 40 years is a primary driver on where to purchase.

SSR, OKW and AKV and all the others are all "sold out". Only RIV and Aulani are in current sales.

 

[sethschroeder]

I've done the statistical analysis on this several times over twenty years. You can buy it or not buy it, but it is generally true.

Except its not the case there is no make up that I see occurring which is why I asked for an example. I absolutely agree the MFs will not increase as quickly out of the gate. My point was that RIV would simply stay "flatter" and then once dues increases normalize it will stay in the middle of the pack it would not rebound to the top of the list.

Here is the deviation from average increase/decrease for all of DVC. As an example it took POLY until year 6 of being open to see a 1.33% increase over the average MFs increase but it saw then a 3.82% reduction the following year.

Really the only resort with a "rebound" was BLT which has historically had dirt cheap MFs so it likely sees a bigger impact of things like monorail costs or staffing costs.



Don't care as much about each resorts MFs for this example as its more so to see if resorts stay in their relative bracket of being lower or higher MFs.

 

[sethschroeder]

SSR, OKW and AKV and all the others are all "sold out". Only RIV and Aulani are in current sales.

I am not getting what you are saying?

 

[Sandisw]

Except its not the case there is no make up that I see occurring which is why I asked for an example. I absolutely agree the MFs will not increase as quickly out of the gate. My point was that RIV would simply stay "flatter" and then once dues increases normalize it will stay in the middle of the pack it would not rebound to the top of the list.

Here is the deviation from average increase/decrease for all of DVC. As an example it took POLY until year 6 of being open to see a 1.33% increase over the average MFs increase but it saw then a 3.82% reduction the following year.

Really the only resort with a "rebound" was BLT which has historically had dirt cheap MFs so it likely sees a bigger impact of things like monorail costs or staffing costs.

View attachment 569256

Don't care as much about each resorts MFs for this example as its more so to see if resorts stay in their relative bracket of being lower or higher MFs.

Excellent info to add when considering MFs. In the past two years, for example, the gap between RIV and OKW has closed, so that resort moved up in its ranking. Yes, points go farther at OKW but in the end, it still comes down to costs and how it works into plans,

I would certainly stay less nights at a resort I love than more at one I don’t, especially if costs are close.

It is why when looking at point charts, I think you have to make sure you apply to ones own situation, Yes, RIV and VGF...my top two..have higher charts, but because I would rather do 3 to 4 night trips those places vs longer at the one with cheaper point charts, it’s net impact is the same.

And of course, one can always trade to the less expensive ones when they want to stretch points bought at places like RIV with the higher fees and the higher chart.

 

[crisi]

Excellent info to add when considering MFs. In the past two years, for example, the gap between RIV and OKW has closed, so that resort moved up in its ranking. Yes, points go farther at OKW but in the end, it still comes down to costs and how it works into plans,

I would certainly stay less nights at a resort I love than more at one I don’t, especially if costs are close.

It is why when looking at point charts, I think you have to make sure you apply to ones own situation, Yes, RIV and VGF...my top two..have higher charts, but because I would rather do 3 to 4 night trips those places vs longer at the one with cheaper point charts, it’s net impact is the same.

And of course, one can always trade to the less expensive ones when they want to stretch points bought at places like RIV with the higher fees and the higher chart.

ABSOLUTELY. When you can afford to be points and dues and purchase price blind (and you should be if you are going to buy DVC), you should pick the resort that brings you the most joy. But we know not everyone can afford to be points and dues and purchase price blind - in which case, balancing the cost per night is as important as thinking about price per point.

 

[RoseGold]

Historically, DVC keeps dues low while a resort is in active sales. It keeps buyers interested.

No, RIV is relatively high and has been since inception.

The increases are low because after Aulani they make the estimates from the opening year high to avoid underestimating.

 

[sethschroeder]

But we know not everyone can afford to be points and dues and purchase price blind - in which case, balancing the cost per night is as important as thinking about price per point.

Since the start though my point has been long term AKV is likely to be slightly more for MFs as part of my observation.

AKV went up $0.20 and RIV $0.07 closing the gap from $0.87 to just $0.31. I would expect another 2 years of suppressed increases on RIV while I would expect RIV to likely have an equal increase in 2022 as if I remember right we still have one more year accounting for wage increases.

My comment is not that RIV will be cheap just that it will be in the upper half of MFs but not the top of the list like it had been.

 

[MonaMN]

Excellent info to add when considering MFs. In the past two years, for example, the gap between RIV and OKW has closed, so that resort moved up in its ranking. Yes, points go farther at OKW but in the end, it still comes down to costs and how it works into plans,

I would certainly stay less nights at a resort I love than more at one I don’t, especially if costs are close.

It is why when looking at point charts, I think you have to make sure you apply to ones own situation, Yes, RIV and VGF...my top two..have higher charts, but because I would rather do 3 to 4 night trips those places vs longer at the one with cheaper point charts, it’s net impact is the same.

And of course, one can always trade to the less expensive ones when they want to stretch points bought at places like RIV with the higher fees and the higher chart.

I think this is also a good example of how each person’s situation can be so different. Because we are in Minnesota, short trips don’t make sense without a very good flight deal - and those (not withstanding the pandemic) are rarely available, particularly at times that make sense with a kiddo in school.

Luckily there are lots of options and choices to fit all!

 

[Sandisw]

I think this is also a good example of how each person’s situation can be so different. Because we are in Minnesota, short trips don’t make sense without a very good flight deal - and those (not withstanding the pandemic) are rarely available, particularly at times that make sense with a kiddo in school.

Luckily there are lots of options and choices to fit all!

Exactly. It’s why it’s never a simple answer for any of us when deciding!

I hear ya with flights which is why we always did summer when our kids were school age. It was outrageous for a family of 5 for school breaks!!!

 

[crisi]

Since the start though my point has been long term AKV is likely to be slightly more for MFs as part of my observation.

AKV went up $0.20 and RIV $0.07 closing the gap from $0.87 to just $0.31. I would expect another 2 years of suppressed increases on RIV while I would expect RIV to likely have an equal increase in 2022 as if I remember right we still have one more year accounting for wage increases.

My comment is not that RIV will be cheap just that it will be in the upper half of MFs but not the top of the list like it had been.

The issue is that the points per night is higher, therefore the dues are higher per night. If you are OK with fewer nights, or can afford it, not a big deal, go where your heart is. My point is that isn't the case for everyone.

There is no universe where RIV dues go below VAKL dues on a per night basis, like for like.

 

[davidl81]

The issue is that the points per night is higher, therefore the dues are higher per night. If you are OK with fewer nights, or can afford it, not a big deal, go where your heart is. My point is that isn't the case for everyone.

There is no universe where RIV dues go below VAKL dues on a per night basis, like for like.

RIV is a nice resort, and if someone loves it and buys there it is fine. By the same token it is a resort that is definitely keeping up with the trend of ever increasing point per night requirements. The tower studios sort of hide the issue, but compare the 1 BR prices of RIV to other resorts and there is no denying the extreme jump in point demand for RIV. Our family really enjoys the space of the 1-2 BR during vacations and the point chart at RIV is basically a non starter for us to book there. The studios at RIV are more in line with BLT (or at least the delta is not as big). Of course long term (post 2042) is where owning at RIV would have the biggest advantage assuming that future DVC resorts can be booked using RIV points (DVC2), as I agree with others once the 2042 resorts go away (really BWV mostly) the usefulness of SAP will greatly diminish. To me that's something I'll worry about 21 years from now.

 

[sethschroeder]

The issue is that the points per night is higher, therefore the dues are higher per night. If you are OK with fewer nights, or can afford it, not a big deal, go where your heart is. My point is that isn't the case for everyone.

There is no universe where RIV dues go below VAKL dues on a per night basis, like for like.

Except guess what I can use the RIV points to book AKV at 7 months most of the year yet to been seen how RIV is at 7 months.

Also if you use your AKV points at RIV you pay more for MFs likely long term and don't get to book standard rooms likely ever meaning you pay the same or possibly more points.

It's all a puzzle piece but the point was simply MFs per point which is typically pointed to.

 

[Sandisw]

Except guess what I can use the RIV points to book AKV at 7 months most of the year.

Also if you use your AKV points at RIV you pay more for MFs likely long term and don't get to book standard rooms likely ever meaning you pay the same or possibly more points.

It's all a puzzle piece but the point was simply MFs per point.

Those are good points and not something I thought of.

As long as trading happens , it muddies the water as to how much each night will cost you to use the contract.

So, when I book a RIV SV for a week...home advantage..for 104 points it costs me $889 using my RIV points, but it could cost me $917 when using SSR points if I am forced to book a PV room. Interesting way to look at things!


Goes back to the initial point that deciding is simply not cut and dry and easy because there are, as you say, many puzzle pieces.

Seems like we are talking two things. Cost to own the contract, and then the costs associated to use the contract in terms of the value and number of nights it’s gets you.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

Except guess what I can use the RIV points to book AKV at 7 months most of the year yet to been seen how RIV is at 7 months.

Also if you use your AKV points at RIV you pay more for MFs likely long term and don't get to book standard rooms likely ever meaning you pay the same or possibly more points.

It's all a puzzle piece but the point was simply MFs per point which is typically pointed to.

It's definitely a puzzle. Years ago I created a worksheet just for fun to see what the best value combination was when considering cost to purchase, MF's and point requirements. Also one just looking at MF's and point requirements. I didn't keep adding new resorts but you could always find something interesting to consider especially comparing to Disney cash prices. It isn't something that people always think about however high purchase price, high point charts and high dues are not going to win on the monetary value comparison scale.

There's yet to be a room that can't be gotten with non-home resort points if you have flexibility. I'd be surprised if suddenly there is a resort that it happens at. Even using your RIV points at AKV there are rooms you wouldn't always get whenever you wanted. I'll enjoy standard view at RIV someday without owning there I bet.

 

[crisi]

Except guess what I can use the RIV points to book AKV at 7 months most of the year yet to been seen how RIV is at 7 months.

Also if you use your AKV points at RIV you pay more for MFs likely long term and don't get to book standard rooms likely ever meaning you pay the same or possibly more points.

It's all a puzzle piece but the point was simply MFs per point which is typically pointed to.

If you want to stay at Riv regularly, you certainly should by Riv. It probably isn't worth it to buy at Riveria so you can get to book their standard view rooms for one or two stays. That math isn't going to float.

 

[dvc lover 1970]

If home resort does not matter, then I would chose SSR for the lower MF's and lower price point. Does not make sense to buy at any other resort. Choose the most economical

 

[sethschroeder]

Years ago I created a worksheet just for fun

You are my kind of people hahaha

There's yet to be a room that can't be gotten with non-home resort points if you have flexibility. I'd be surprised if suddenly there is a resort that it happens at. Even using your RIV points at AKV there are rooms you wouldn't always get whenever you wanted. I'll enjoy standard view at RIV someday without owning there I bet.

Completely agree. I come from the mindset that if you are deciding from any of the "park attached" resorts its because you want to stay there 50% of the time making it worth it. Its hard because what to buy for DVC is SOOOOO complex.

This time last year I still would have told you I would NEVER own RIV yet here I am with 300 of my 450 at RIV.

If you want to stay at Riv regularly, you certainly should by Riv. It probably isn't worth it to buy at Riveria so you can get to book their standard view rooms for one or two stays. That math isn't going to float.

I would agree you don't purchase RIV just to stay there 1-2 times. That being said RIV might be a cheaper option on direct purchase to stay at AKV. That being said if you are wanting to stay at AKV all the time it likely makes sense to pay more for the booking advantage or to pay less and just get SSR points.