only if you think dvc annual dues are too high

[KANSAS]

i think DVC clubs, are way too high. I am also worried about their annual increases.
I totally understand. I am in the vast minority in this issue, so if you disagree with me, I am asking you please not to post on this thread. I am looking to find, others who feel the way, that I do and some of their concerns and thoughts.
Thank you very much


Here is what I do not understand. If you take $4.17 per point x 350 opints, the number of points, for one week during the summer at Beach Club, that is $1460. In annual dues.

does it really take $76,000 or $1460 x 52 weeks, to maintain everything related with that 2 bedroom unit at Beach Club Villa.

I guess, that would be true, if the unit is worth $1,000,000 in total value.

 

[Disney Doll]

So many of your posts are about the cost and negative aspects of the DVC...I wonder if you made the right decision in purchasing??

I do not feel that the dues are too high. IMHO, we are getting what I consider to be a premium vacation, so I expect to pay a higher price for it. I think we get a very good value for what we pay. Now granted, I have never had any major problems with the DVC....I have always found my rooms to be cleaned to my satsifaction, I have pretty much always received a warm "welcome home" at every resort, when I have had a minor problem it was always corrected quickly and to my satisfaction.

 

[KANSAS]

disney doll

i feel like i asked you very nicely, not to immediately criticize me, like you did in your first sentence. I fully admitted in my thread, that I know. I am entirely in the minority, since others do not feel their annual dues are too high. I full respect the opinion of others, that feel differently than me.

I was just trying to find if there were others like me and communicate with me.

Since you disagree with me. I am going to ask you as nice as I can to please not post on this issue. I will look forward to your responses on other posts.

if you read my thread, others have explained to me that they fell a 2 bedroom villa at Beach Club, is worth about $1,000,000 becuase of its location and 7% in mainte,TAxes,insurance,etc is just about right.

I hope that you will not put me on your ignore list. I look forward to your responses on other issues, but have asked you and others twice,as nice as I Can, to not post, if you disagree with me.
I want to the thoughts of others that do agree with me.

 

[jaysue]

Kansas, I have done similar mathematical thinking as well - I suspect a good portion of the dues go into upkeep at the resorts - for example the groundskeeping at OKW where they sweep/air blow the leaves from the streets and keep the units up to date and update the siding at BCV etc.

$1MM for a 2BR at BCV......I am not even sure how to say if that is reasonable or not....there are not other locations (other than other DVC at WDW) that are comparable

Adding up all the points, I come up with 16,565 points to stay at a BCV 2BR all year round in 04 (includes Feb leap year) which at $74 a point yields $1,225,810 and $84 $1,391,460

Location/Location/Location

The dues do seem a touch high but then I see what a great time DW and the DS's have and it makes it all worthwhile

 

[KANSAS]

Jaysue
do you have any concerns what annual dues, will be in future years.

They seem to have gone up about 75% at OKW, the last 10 years
This would take OKW dues to about $6.50 per point, 2014.
I am excited to find one person, who agrees with me just slightly.

Please tell me if you think this is really stupid. I sometimes think of selling all but 575 of my DVC POINTS, leaving me with only 50 points.

IF i can rent and transfer points, on a regular basis, for $9.50 per point and I am not paying 4.00 per point in annual dues.

for every point i rent, isn't this only costing me $5.50 per point and I have $40,000 in capital, from sale of 575 DVC POINTS.


I will not be offended by any direct suggestions or criticism, because you have admited, you have some similar concerns.
I think differently than the majority on the board on this issue, so trying to find the thoughts of the few, that agree with me

 

[KANSAS]

Jaysue
I am completely happy with DVC, some think I am not.
I just am always thinking, of ways to reduce the cost and receive the exact benefits.
I once met a man, at members day, that was a sunday-thursday person, like me.
He only owned 50 dvc points and had an investment of $4000.
he paid only $200 in annual dues and then rented and transferred points into his account, very easily, for an average of $9.50 per point.

He made me think, if a person, could do this, they could have a 2 bedroom, 2 bath unit, in may, sunday-thursday evenings, for only
$300 per night. 34 points x $9.50
disney cash rate for same reservation
$705 x 12% or almost $800 per night.

 

[jaysue]

KANSAS, I think it all depends upon expectations of future rental price - for example, let's say dues go up by $3 a point over next 10 years and rental points stay in the $10 ish range - probably not a reasonable combination but let's blue sky - then for sure you would have been best off to sell the points, invest the capital (assuming you do not lose on your investment) and rent.

I think the key question is if you love disney and want to keep going then the safer bet is to stay with your points (or sell some of them)

If you find the current selling prices attractive and you are willing to stay offsite/for cash on weekend nights and you think hotel prices will stay realtively low (for example Sheraton Safari just outside the gates near Crossroads in the $80-90 range) then by all means sell some of your points (you have a fair amount) and hedge your bet - might make you feel more confident in your ownership

thanks
jaysue

 

[JudithM]

Originally posted by KANSAS
I am completely happy with DVC, some think I am not.
I just am always thinking, of ways to reduce the cost and receive the exact benefits.

If you feel you have ways to reduce costs at the DVC resorts, then I am sure DVC management CMs would like to hear your thoughts, ideas, etc. Perhaps you could send a letter or an email to share your ideas.

I have spent a lot of time over the years talking to DVC management CMs about how they decide how to spend member's money. They have been very receptive to member's comments. I can tell you first hand that these CMs do their best to sharpen their pencils & to find the best value for purchases & services (like exterior paint, repaving parking lots & driveways, etc.).

 

[KANSAS]

judithM

your post was very intersting, can you please tell me what are your feelings about the management fees, we pay in dvc annual dues, transportation and any other line item??

 

[JudithM]

Originally posted by KANSAS
judithM

your post was very intersting, can you please tell me what are your feelings about the management fees, we pay in dvc annual dues, transportation and any other line item??

Kansas, my feelings are that I bought into the Disney Vacation Club for the Disney experience. I understand your concerns about costs, but I want the Disney expertise running my timeshare. When I purchased I knew I, as a member, would be responsible for maintenance & upkeep of "my home."

As another member nicely put it years ago at an OKW annual meeting (& I paraphrase here) - I bought DVC because I want a Disney experience not Motel 6. He was loudly applauded by members in attendance who agreed with his comment.

However, our Disney experience comes with a cost - for example, DVC front desk CMs have more to learn than the average front desk CM at other Disney resorts (regarding points, member's benefits, etc.). Knowledgeable CMs don't come without a cost.

I recently had a long chat with someone from the insurance company that insures my home & vehicles. Costs have risen. I suspect insurance costs have risen at WDW, too.

I am willing to accept these costs in exchange for the excellent guest service I have come to expect (& have received !).

Again, I encourage you to contact DVC with your concerns. If you decide you are not pleased/happy/content with the results of your contact, then you can decide if you want to remain a DVC member.

 

[Chuck S]

Kansas, your post is in error. OKW dues have NOT gone up 75% in 10 years. The actual increase is 46%. An average of 4.6% per year. The biggest % increases are costs that can not be controlled by Disney. Insurance costs after 9-11 for resort areas have risen dramatically.

In answer to your question...when we initially purchased in 1992, we had concerns over dues increases. Knowing that they are limited to 15% per year helped, but eventually they can become prohibitively expensive. I think Disney and DVC/DVD are doing all they can to contol costs, yet maintain the resorts to the standards we purchased. They certainly must do so if they wish to continue strong sales. Bad publicity over extremely high due would kill future Resort sales...there would be no point to it.

 

[KANSAS]

CHUCK S
THank you for correcting my statement about OKW increase over the last 10 years.
I misread the table.
This would only take the OKW Annual dues to about $5.63 a share over the next 10 years.


JudithM
Thank you for your point about management fees. I am not sure, who we would hire and what we would get, if not paying for quality of Disney management, in those management fees.

 

[KANSAS]

I continue to bring up annual dues increases, because at tax time. I have so many clients, that have watched their annuall dues, some of which is tax deductible, go up so dramactically, over their lifetime.
They just quit paying the annual dues.
I know that you are going to state, those are properties like Fairfield and Sunterra, not Disney, so I just did it for you.

I read many articles about timeshares and I read that most people, that purchase timeshares, do not understand how much their timeshares, will devalue immediately. But, it went on to state, that you need to think very hard, about the potential annual due increases, they can really be costly to you, over your lifetime, because, they are ongoing.

 

[jimmytammy]

I feel that the dues are a little high, yes, but as another poster above stated, there are huge amounts of cost that we the general public have a tendency to overlook. Do I like having to pay these dues? Certainly not. Do I like the fact that they will continue to increase over time? Again, no. Am I a happy owner of DVC? Im happy enough that Ill pay the dues and realize that it will provide me and my family many happy years at WDW.

I own rental property, so there is always unforseen things that come up that has to be payed for. Looking from that perspective I know why those dues go up. But KANSAS I feel your pain at the same time, I think I know where your coming from. Im sure lots of others feel the same.

I have to remind myself that all timeshares(I dont like having to put DVC in that category but lack of better wording fails me) are closely watched to make sure those annual dues are on the up and up. Question DVC, it would be interesting to hear there answers.

 

[Stitch 03]

I have to admit, that the dues were a major concern of mine. They were a major concern because over the life of my ownership, dues would represent about 80% of my total costs (the purchase price being the other 20%). I was not concerned that dues were too high. I was concerned with how they are downplayed when Disney presents their salespitch, and a fear that they would increase dramatically. Essentially I came to three conclusions:

1) The perceived value was there for me. Whether the value is there for others is a personal decision. Similar to those who save a few bucks by staying and dining offsite vs onsite.

2) Although I am still concerned that dues could increase significantly, I chose to put some faith in DVC management. I figure that they are going to want to avoid p***ing off 80,000 loyal customers. Think of how much we will all spend compared to our DVC costs on items such as passes, meals, souvenirs and other items.

3) Buy no more points then what I will use on a regular basis.

That being said I feel that owners should be vigilant in ensuring that their dollars are being spent appropriately. SAB is a good example. BC/YC supported the full costs to this for quite awhile. How does cost sharing work now with BCV. If BCV is contributing to the costs, does this contribution flow to the bottom line of the BC/YC. This issue arises with other costs where the resort is shared (WL/WLV & BWI/BWV).

Once all that is said and done, I am happy with my decision to pursue a DVC membership.

 

[July]

Kansas,
As a fairly new owner I expected dues to go up. But am surprised at how much they have gone up in 10 years. I have recently decided that because of how much I pay for dues that trading out to II might not be such a great financial decision.
I have also decided that I will not be one of the top 10 owners. Can't afford that much for my vacations.
I too love Disney and own stock so I definatly want to see it continue to florish.
But I think I will stop when I have enough points for 2 weeks in a 2 Bdr. That's about as much as I want to spend on dues for vacation.
I am now looking at buying a timeshare outside of the DVC for staying a week elsewhere and for trading. I believe that the dues will make it worth my while. So I can keep Disney just for that Disney.. They are COSTLY>>>


July

 

[PamOKW]

To provide some perspective on the OKW dues.

In the last two years, OKW dues have risen primarily because of a drop in revenue generated by interest income and an increase in the insurance costs (property and medical for employees) to DVC. While, of course, I would like to see the costs stay stable, they are somewhat out of DVC immediate control. This year, they also included a 9% increase in the amount being put into the Capital Reserve Budget. My guess this is also due to the drop in interest rates. They want to make sure they are putting enough away to cover future upkeep of the resort. I'd rather see them do this than have to hit us with a huge assessment at some point.

While there is a 40% increase in OKW dues from 1993 until 2004, the increase from 1997-2004 is only 17%, 14% of it since 2002 when the interest rates dropped and the insurance rates increased. Just like in our personal lives, if DVC can get a better return on our money, our dues may once again stabilize.

Two other factors to keep in mind for the for the early years of OKW. 1) DVC was an unknown quantity. Disney was feeling their way and working out costs. T&T used to be an actual light cleaning that included vaccuuming. There were color-coordinated towels in the units, there were more decorative plants (that often went home with guests). All these little things made for more expensive operating costs. Once these were understood, dues stabilized for many years.

2) OKW was opened in phases. The Old Turtle Pond and South Point areas were not originally open. As they came on board, operating expenses and the need for capital reserves increased. These additions included not only the units, but two pool areas as well. The additional 3 buildings were added after sell-out and may have created an uptick also.

While this may also indicate that I'm not in agreement with the subject of this topic, it is presented more as additional background for decision-making than an "arguement".

 

[KANSAS]

stich03
I found your post interesting, that you realized,that your annual dues, will cost 4 times, more than the cost of your original DVC contract, over the life of your DVC contract.

If I really thought my DVC dues, were outrageous, would I own 625 DVC points?

I appreciate your comments greatly. In the past, when I have welcomed anyone to post on my thread. The vast majority of the people just comment, why worry about the annual dues, DVC is the best timeshare, in the world and you are getting tremendous service and location and if you do not like, maybe you should leave DVC and purchase offsite timeshare in ORlando,Fl.
BTW, I think of all these statements, are correct.

I just wanted to read a thread, where others, could share thoughts, about their concerns, about annual Dues.

I have to admit. I never thought to myself, that my annual dues, could easily be 4 times more, than the cost of my original DVC CONTRACT, over the life of my contract.

 

[DaveH]

Dues was and is a concern of mine. I asked alot of questions when we bought. We only bought 150 points. I use to work for a bank and I learned to ask many questions. So the CM that sold us our DVC went over this many times with me. We bought 2 1/2 years ago at VWL. I know from just reading the paper and everday experiences at home that insurance has gone up alot after 9/11. I know the interest rates dropping for borrowing also means interest rates for savings also drop. I know that wages have to go up for CM's. What I have seen so far has been reasonable. I know there was an unexpected expense that made our dues go up a little higher, I believe it was last year. I suspect that it was covered our increase was less this year. The other suggestion is that you try and make the annual meeting. There you should be able to meet the folks who can maybe answer some of your concerns. I would at least write DVC or visit them when you are at WDW next time. I am currently satisfied with my dues in general. Would I like them lower, yes, but not at the expense of lower quality experience at our resorts.

 

[KANSAS]

PAMOKW

THank you very much for your detailed information. I did not take your post as an argument, but as very good information.
THank you again, this is exactly what I wanted to learn, that DVC annual dues, could be even higher, if It was not for different choices
THAnk you again.