Online Dating

[TipsyTraveler]

One idea on the oversharing. As a new friend, I wouldn't want to here about a miscarriage or when you the victim of a horrible crime. (Just examples) Maybe make a list of things to Not Discuss.

Ha, I was discussing this exact thing a few weeks ago in a conversation with someone I was meeting for the first time. Guess you can add me to the list of people who over-share. But, it’s not like it’s a shameful, dark secret of mine or anything so I don’t see the big deal in discussing it. We were on the topic of pregnancy and babies and it seemed like a natural progression of the conversation.

 

[BrianL]

Perhaps the issue could arise though when someone mistakes privacy for secrets.

If you ask a question that I feel is too private and I don't answer the key is to not assume I'm being secretive

It's not an expectation - certainly if you don't feel comfortable sharing something then it is fine. What I was saying was in response to the male friends who were advising to absolutely not share certain things. For me, I wouldn't mind at all and would likely find the forthrightness to be a positive, but not that keeping it private is a negative, well, not on the first date anyway.

That reminds me- do any of you perform a search on a prospective date for police records or unflattering mugshots?

Nope, I've never done something like that. Then again, I very rarely date. Obviously, people like @disneychrista and I are somewhat unusual in our styles.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

It's not an expectation - certainly if you don't feel comfortable sharing something then it is fine. What I was saying was in response to the male friends who were advising to absolutely not share certain things. For me, I wouldn't mind at all and would likely find the forthrightness to be a positive, but not that keeping it private is a negative, well, not on the first date anyway.

Yeah but it wasn't actually to absolutely not share certain things.

This was the comment: " I've been counseled by guy friends not to be too much myself on dates, because I tell everything, I'm very chatty and divulge all kinds of stuff. So one has advised me, and also my therapist, to talk with them before going on dates for pep talks." I'm going to guess if a therapist is involved and shares this advice there's more than just fluff stuff being shared.

It's not secretive to not tell all, that was the counterpoint some gave that instead it was about keeping some things private. Now of course if you're saying you're down to hear absolutely everything someone has then that's what it is. But I do think most people operate on the concept that some things are private (or inappropriate to discuss) when you're starting to date someone (or well really in general conversation). That, IMO, shouldn't be assumed to a person having secrets rather than just being private especially if one is going in with "secrets=problems".

 

[BrianL]

Yeah but it wasn't actually to absolutely not share certain things.

This was the comment: " I've been counseled by guy friends not to be too much myself on dates, because I tell everything, I'm very chatty and divulge all kinds of stuff. So one has advised me, and also my therapist, to talk with them before going on dates for pep talks." I'm going to guess if a therapist is involved and shares this advice there's more than just fluff stuff being shared.

It's not secretive to not tell all, that was the counterpoint some gave that instead it was about keeping some things private. Now of course if you're saying you're down to hear absolutely everything someone has then that's what it is. But I do think most people operate on the concept that some things are private (or inappropriate to discuss) when you're starting to date someone (or well really in general conversation). That, IMO, shouldn't be assumed to a person having secrets rather than just being private especially if one is going in with "secrets=problems".

You're taking the term "secrets" very literally. What I was saying is that I'm an open book and that I personally can appreciate when others are too. When @Scouter said that maybe she should have secrets, I advised that it was unnecessary - i.e. she is fine the way she is. It was meant to be encouraging to her and those of us who are pretty open and chatty. It was NOT a knock at anyone else.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

You're taking the term "secrets" very literally. What I was saying is that I'm an open book and that I personally can appreciate when others are too. When @Scouter said that maybe she should have secrets, I advised that it was unnecessary - i.e. she is fine the way she is. It was meant to be encouraging to her and those of us who are pretty open and chatty. It was NOT a knock at anyone else.

I can respect that I am taking it literally although I am just responding to how you talked about it. You said "I don't really have "secrets" so anything is on the table." A poster mentioned secrets and privacy aren't the same thing and you responded you appreciated candor and sure you don't have to share what you don't want to but it wouldn't put you off as a guy. That's why I responded to me the key would to not assume that when someone is being private about something it's not the same as having secrets. If you expect (not said in a negative way) the other person to be the same you may see something as a secret when they are just being private about something. IRL most of us yes understand not everyone is like us in preferences (it's also why dating, especially early on, can be frustrating).

I don't think you were knocking anyone just me agreeing with the discussion that privacy doesn't equate to secrets. I can imagine how for instance a miscarriage that another poster brought up could be a very personal private matter that someone could interpret as a secret if someone became uncomfortable at the discussion of children. Generally it's natural to discuss children in the midst of dating, miscarriage (or death of a child) may be not something someone is willing to be open book about and if someone sees uncomfortableness at the topic of children as being cagey or hiding some details they may misinterpret the intent. And the flipside if someone is comfortable talking about that all power to them but in most respects that's a topic that is not one most would consider dating conversations.

I get in a way what the PP's guy friends were talking about (even if we're talking about something completely different than a miscarriage). You don't have to put on a front about yourself or hide yourself to be less oversharing or to discuss topics that are typically considered more appropriate (especially when you're in the early stages of dating). I have zero issues talking politics, religion, and social issues. But I don't generally discuss that with people I just met. And you're not going to find out my whole life story and all the issues with my messed up family when I just met you either. I'm a very chatty, outgoing, extrovert (with some introverted tendencies). I have no problem striking up conversations with random people in public, and there's a lot of talking going on with new people, there's still things that are well private.

 

[BrianL]

I can respect that I am taking it literally although I am just responding to how you talked about it. You said "I don't really have "secrets" so anything is on the table." A poster mentioned secrets and privacy aren't the same thing and you responded you appreciated candor and sure you don't have to share what you don't want to but it wouldn't put you off as a guy. That's why I responded to me the key would to not assume that when someone is being private about something it's not the same as having secrets. If you expect (not said in a negative way) the other person to be the same you may see something as a secret when they are just being private about something. IRL most of us yes understand not everyone is like us in preferences (it's also why dating, especially early on, can be frustrating).

I don't think you were knocking anyone just me agreeing with the discussion that privacy doesn't equate to secrets. I can imagine how for instance a miscarriage that another poster brought up could be a very personal private matter that someone could interpret as a secret if someone became uncomfortable at the discussion of children. Generally it's natural to discuss children in the midst of dating, miscarriage (or death of a child) may be not something someone is willing to be open book about and if someone sees uncomfortableness at the topic of children as being cagey or hiding some details they may misinterpret the intent. And the flipside if someone is comfortable talking about that all power to them but in most respects that's a topic that is not one most would consider dating conversations.

I get in a way what the PP's guy friends were talking about (even if we're talking about something completely different than a miscarriage). You don't have to put on a front about yourself or hide yourself to be less oversharing or to discuss topics that are typically considered more appropriate (especially when you're in the early stages of dating). I have zero issues talking politics, religion, and social issues. But I don't generally discuss that with people I just met. And you're not going to find out my whole life story and all the issues with my messed up family when I just met you either. I'm a very chatty, outgoing, extrovert (with some introverted tendencies). I have no problem striking up conversations with random people in public, and there's a lot of talking going on with new people, there's still things that are well private.

So again, I have to clarify. The "Secrets" thing and being an open book is about ME, for me, it's how I am. The advice to NOT be like that is what I take issue with. There's nothing inherently wrong with sharing such things on a first date if the person wants to. If it does scare a potential suitor away, then that person was probably not the right one for you to begin with. The advice that you shouldn't share, even if you think it's okay, is the issue. And, sure I appreciate candor in others, but it's not an immediate red-flag if they're not. It's no different than appreciating that someone likes certian food or movies. It's not a dealbreaker like not liking Disney or anything!

 

[shawthorne44]

That reminds me- do any of you perform a search on a prospective date for police records or unflattering mugshots?

Absolutely! Although I was mostly looking for family status. It was a good thing DH mentioned that he rented his mother's guest house as a favor to her to keep leaches in the family away. The only 'bad' thing I found was that where he lived was owned by Mrs. (HisLastName). So, I knew to dig more and find that she'd lived there since he was born.

I didn't find anything bad about anyone I was interested enough in to investigate. People did tend to out themselves after a couple of messages. Some were shocking. Like what woman would *like* to get a photo of a guy's parts and his ex-wife's face? If there were such a woman, I would think men would want to run away.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

So again, I have to clarify. The "Secrets" thing and being an open book is about ME, for me, it's how I am. The advice to NOT be like that is what I take issue with. There's nothing inherently wrong with sharing such things on a first date if the person wants to. If it does scare a potential suitor away, then that person was probably not the right one for you to begin with. The advice that you shouldn't share, even if you think it's okay, is the issue. And, sure I appreciate candor in others, but it's not an immediate red-flag if they're not. It's no different than appreciating that someone likes certian food or movies. It's not a dealbreaker like not liking Disney or anything!

Then I need to clarify. You're taking the conversation the other poster had about their guy friends to mean they are deliberately hiding who they are because the other party wouldn't like them if they were who they were. That is just way different than the conversation of not discussing things.

If someone is told "play dumb guys don't like smart girls" I'm right there with you, you do not need to hide your intelligence. But if you're telling me on our first couple of dates your dad was a druggy, alcoholic and your sister is a compulsive liar and xyz that's just different. I suppose people may see it as black and white that if you're advised not to overshare you're being told you're hiding who you are. To me it's not. Difference of opinion I guess.

 

[BrianL]

Then I need to clarify. You're taking the conversation the other poster had about their guy friends to mean they are deliberately hiding who they are because the other party wouldn't like them if they were who they were. That is just way different than the conversation of not discussing things.

If someone is told "play dumb guys don't like smart girls" I'm right there with you, you do not need to hide your intelligence. But if you're telling me on our first couple of dates your dad was a druggy, alcoholic and your sister is a compulsive liar and xyz that's just different. I suppose people may see it as black and white that if you're advised not to overshare you're being told you're hiding who you are. To me it's not. Difference of opinion I guess.

All that I'm saying is that if someone is being chatty and "oversharing" on a first date and is being advised not to do that because others don't like that, then I take issue with it. I would like it just fine, and I don't think it is necessary to change the behavior. If someone want's to share, they can share. If it turns off the other person then so be it. Being chatty is totally fine, even if some people don't like it. If they don't they they probably aren't the one to date anyway.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

All that I'm saying is that if someone is being chatty and "oversharing" on a first date and is being advised not to do that because others don't like that, then I take issue with it. I would like it just fine, and I don't think it is necessary to change the behavior. If someone want's to share, they can share. If it turns off the other person then so be it. Being chatty is totally fine, even if some people don't like it. If they don't they they probably aren't the one to date anyway.

Yeah it's looking like a difference of opinion.

Chatty is a vague term, I think some posters were giving more specific examples (miscarriage, victim of crime). I'm chatty by nature and have plenty I can talk about, that doesn't mean I'm not who I am just because I didn't discuss with someone I've just met everything. And frankly I would dislike someone (so I guess don't date me lol) who just tells me you don't need to change your behavior as if me being consciously aware of who I'm with, where I'm at and more means I'm changing my behavior for someone else or because someone else doesn't like it. In our area it's being appropriate, it's not deceptive, it's not changing your behavior. I've got plenty I can share, time, place and whom depend and first couple of dates are generally not appropriate and I can understand what the guy friends were meaning.

I think this comes down to perceiving it as merely chatty, talkative person told to tone it down versus what is generally seen as conversation topics of choice (especially to early dating).

 

[BrianL]

Yeah it's looking like a difference of opinion.

Chatty is a vague term, I think some posters were giving more specific examples (miscarriage, victim of crime). I'm chatty by nature and have plenty I can talk about, that doesn't mean I'm not who I am just because I didn't discuss with someone I've just met everything. And frankly I would dislike someone (so I guess don't date me lol) who just tells me you don't need to change your behavior as if me being consciously aware of who I'm with, where I'm at and more means I'm changing my behavior for someone else or because someone else doesn't like it. In our area it's being appropriate, it's not deceptive, it's not changing your behavior. I've got plenty I can share, time, place and whom depend and first couple of dates are generally not appropriate and I can understand what the guy friends were meaning.

I think this comes down to perceiving it as merely chatty, talkative person told to tone it down versus what is generally seen as conversation topics of choice (especially to early dating).

When did I ever say someone was "not being who thay are" if they choose not to share certain things? All I have said, is that in the case of someone who is sharing too much being told that they should not do that, I think that it is perfectly fine to do so, again, if they want to. They are the ones being told to "change their behavior" - nobody is telling you to change yours. You just seem to want to take issue with my defense of people who overshare - and that's what it is, not an attack on people who don't. Like those giving the advice, you seem to be saying that the same rules apply across the board - all I'm saying is that they don't. I never called anyone "deceptive" or have said that they have to tell more than they want to on a first date. I am just saying that it's not automatically bad if they do.

 

[Heigh-Ho]

Jumping back (sort of) into this thread for a moment.

If they don't they they probably aren't the one to date anyway.

If you're getting the same advice from multiple people it may be time to listen to it, or you could continue doing the same thing and get frustrated when the result is still the same.

I think you and the other person are talking through each other. I get both of what you are trying to say but I think you're speaking more broadly and the specific poster who kick started this particular conversation was speaking more specifically about what their male friends were saying. Everyone has a different opinion on what is considered oversharing, that might why there's various opinions but I do think there are still ones that are considered socially acceptable and I feel like that was more what the other posters who mentioned what sort of thing they wouldn't want to know on a first date were talking about. You can see the advice to not talk about something as a negative but I more see it as a constructive feedback. There are a lot of topics out there that allow someone who is talkative to really get talking so I suppose I don't see an issue with saying don't overshare. You're not oversharing if you're talking about your favorite movie genre, but you might be oversharing if you're talking about family drama on a first date.

 

[Scouter]

That reminds me- do any of you perform a search on a prospective date for police records or unflattering mugshots?

Smart! But no I hadn't. Maybe I will next time.

 

[ronandannette]

You're taking the term "secrets" very literally. What I was saying is that I'm an open book and that I personally can appreciate when others are too. When @Scouter said that maybe she should have secrets, I advised that it was unnecessary - i.e. she is fine the way she is. It was meant to be encouraging to her and those of us who are pretty open and chatty. It was NOT a knock at anyone else.

Maybe the poster we’re referencing is a bad example of what you’re trying to express. I guess you missed the part about her therapist since I’m sure you wouldn’t glibly advise an Internet stranger to completely disregard the advice she’s apparently getting from a mental health professional that probably had good insight into her situation.

 

[Scouter]

Ha, I was discussing this exact thing a few weeks ago in a conversation with someone I was meeting for the first time. Guess you can add me to the list of people who over-share. But, it’s not like it’s a shameful, dark secret of mine or anything so I don’t see the big deal in discussing it. We were on the topic of pregnancy and babies and it seemed like a natural progression of the conversation.

See, I might do that too not thinking it would be sharing too much for some people.

 

[Scouter]

Absolutely! Although I was mostly looking for family status. It was a good thing DH mentioned that he rented his mother's guest house as a favor to her to keep leaches in the family away. The only 'bad' thing I found was that where he lived was owned by Mrs. (HisLastName). So, I knew to dig more and find that she'd lived there since he was born.

I didn't find anything bad about anyone I was interested enough in to investigate. People did tend to out themselves after a couple of messages. Some were shocking. Like what woman would *like* to get a photo of a guy's parts and his ex-wife's face? If there were such a woman, I would think men would want to run away.

When I was dating years ago and went on a few, I would joke with family and friends that they might not see me ever again as my date could be a killer. One friend insisted that while on the date I asked the guy to let me take a photo of his drivers license and share it with her in case I go missing. I told her I though that would be an awkward request. Don't you think?

 

[Scouter]

Then I need to clarify. You're taking the conversation the other poster had about their guy friends to mean they are deliberately hiding who they are because the other party wouldn't like them if they were who they were. That is just way different than the conversation of not discussing things.

If someone is told "play dumb guys don't like smart girls" I'm right there with you, you do not need to hide your intelligence. But if you're telling me on our first couple of dates your dad was a druggy, alcoholic and your sister is a compulsive liar and xyz that's just different. I suppose people may see it as black and white that if you're advised not to overshare you're being told you're hiding who you are. To me it's not. Difference of opinion I guess.

OK, so for example, if someone asked about my mother and I told them the truth about how we haven't spoken in years for how she treated her mom and stole her furnance with her brother and that
a few of my ex's are dead (not my fault!) or that my last left me for a lady in a wheelchair........... while I think these are really funny stories and I like sharing them because people can't believe they're all true and make for interesting conversation, they probably are best saved for later conversations.
But normally I would tell anyone those stories, because I think they're pretty funny now! Not while they were happening of course.

 

[Scouter]

I really like this all this feedback on this subject. It gives us all insight to what might be OK and not OK to some people we first meet.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

You just seem to want to take issue with my defense of people who overshare - and that's what it is,

It's not that I take issue with it as you've written above. I think you and I seem to not view the concept of overshare as the same, it's leading to different viewpoints (the world isn't made of same-minded people lol). If you want to tell someone something who am I to tell you you can't do that? I will however, depending on the subject, view that as oversharing. For you oversharing is NBD it would appear, that's fine. It doesn't mean however that it's incorrect for people to give advice to not overshare or that it means it's a problem with them to give that advice because you've said basically that several times.

 

[TipsyTraveler]

Then I need to clarify. You're taking the conversation the other poster had about their guy friends to mean they are deliberately hiding who they are because the other party wouldn't like them if they were who they were. That is just way different than the conversation of not discussing things.

If someone is told "play dumb guys don't like smart girls" I'm right there with you, you do not need to hide your intelligence. But if you're telling me on our first couple of dates your dad was a druggy, alcoholic and your sister is a compulsive liar and xyz that's just different. I suppose people may see it as black and white that if you're advised not to overshare you're being told you're hiding who you are. To me it's not. Difference of opinion I guess.

I mean, if I’m on a first date with someone and I say “Tell me about your family” and they respond with the bolded, I wouldn’t think a thing of it. I also wouldn’t care if they responded with “Ugh, my family is a mess. I’d rather not.” Whatever they want to share about themselves is fine with me. That’s the point of a date after all — getting to know someone. I can get along with anyone on a superficial level but to know if we’re going to work as a couple, I’m going to need to know them on a deeper level. Politics, religion, messy family history, bring it on. If we’re not suitably matched, I’d rather know after the first date than the tenth.