one time use points, imbalanced allocations, and lots of frustration

[mjc2003]

We have 3 rooms at BCV in late October. I need one more night, but ran just short of having enough points (I'm 7 points short). I can't do the one time rental until the 7 month mark. Why is that? The room is 33 points for the night, I have 26 left. Why wouldn't the one time points effectively take on the properties of your home resort points? I booked the rooms at the 11 month mark. Now I've had to wait all this time, and sure enough, just outside of 7 months even the 1br's are all booked up so now I can't get the room.
Which brings me to my next issue....point allocations. What a joke. We're going next month, end of April, and as recently as 2 days ago I could get a BCV 1br for 6 of our 7 nights. But the 1br is 270 points, whereas in the fall it's only 211? Why is it 25% more points to go at a time of year when the demand is categorically lower?

Same with BWV. 5 weeks from now I can get a full week in a garden view, and as of yesterday could get 5 of 7 nights in a standard view! But 7 months from now I can only get 4 nights in a garden view. No standard. Next month I can get 2 bedroom standard view at Jambo, grand villas all over WDW and treehouses for every night of the trip if I wanted. As of 2 days ago I could get 6 of 7 nights at BLT in a 1br. I can basically get into just about any resort (BCV availability for that week is down to 3 nights as of today).
Should I go on? Heck, last monday when I checked I could get 3 consecutive nights in a Jambo concierge 1br! Aren't those the holy grail of rooms, the ones everybody says book at 11 months out all year? Apparently not.

I posted about this a few weeks ago and got several replies about how Easter moves around, etc.., but the reality is that somebody isn't doing their job. The points should be as dynamic as peoples travel habits. There is simply no excuse for having empty rooms all over the place at one time of year when the points are so "expensive", and having "cheap" rooms in the fall booking up 7 months out. They (DVC) are responsible for balancing the points so as to best occupy all rooms for all nights; this is obviously not going to happen, but this is way too imbalanced.
Everybody talks about how F&W attracts the crowds, but obviously the cheap points are a large factor as well. If they reallocated points and made it cheaper in the spring, we'd see a shift in travel and ideally some balance.

We travel almost exclusively in the fall, so my suggestion that they increase points in the fall is to my own detriment, but I don't really care, this is not an equitable balance. I understand some people own exactly enough for their time of year and don't want to see a change, but the system is not working properly if 7 months from now rooms are already booked solid, but 1 month from now there is rampant availability.

 

[Chuck S]

Because legally, the one time use points are tied to a specific resort, just like your ownership. The one time use points come out of an ever changing pool of points owned by DVC, either reacquired through ROFR or foreclosure, or are unsold points.

DVC choses not to continually track which home resort an individual one time use point comes from...and it is understandable, as that way one time use points can freely swapped between resorts when the need arises. Otherwise, you may have a situation where one time use points would not be available for your home resort during your 11 month window. In order to have the most flexibility, the 7 month window is really the best option for one time use points.

 

[bobbiwoz]

I imagine most of the "extra" points they sell are from SSR or OKW, even AKV. IF they were going to sell those one time use points before the 7 month window, from specific resorts, they could charge more. However, there would be a huge difference in the number of points available from each resort. I think that would bring on whole new sets of problems for DVC. Suppose at 10 months they didn't have BCV points, but at 8 months they did. Who would get them?
September and October are hurricane months, and it wasn't too many years ago that hurricanes came with a vengence. I do think the weeks before and after Easter play into the higher point value for March and April. I will always go for Flower and Garden and would miss F&W at times.
You feel strongly, be sure you let DVC Member Satisfaction team know!

Bobbi

 

[crisi]

Dynamic points?

So if Bob and Jane want to do a big family reunion trip in a few years and they really want to conserve points to get there, and they pick a slow season a few years from now, and everyone makes their vacations requests and plans for September, and then the points get released for the year and suddenly they can't go for as many nights, and this happens every year - you think that would be a better system?

I plan my vacations three to four years out - the last thing I need is the point requirement changing on me all the time.

 

[CarolMN]

We have 3 rooms at BCV in late October. I need one more night, but ran just short of having enough points (I'm 7 points short). I can't do the one time rental until the 7 month mark. Why is that? The room is 33 points for the night, I have 26 left. Why wouldn't the one time points effectively take on the properties of your home resort points? I booked the rooms at the 11 month mark. Now I've had to wait all this time, and sure enough, just outside of 7 months even the 1br's are all booked up so now I can't get the room.

IMO, it isn't feasible to offer OTU points before the 7 month window. The OTU points Disney offers do have a resort designation. Even Disney can't magically transform points from (for example) Aulani to BCV. (If they did, they would be in trouble with Florida timeshare laws re oversell). I doubt Disney has as many BCV points as they do AKV points, which would be different from what they own at each of the other resorts. You wouldn't be happy if they denied your request for OTU points because they were out of BCV, but allowed mine because they have plenty of points at the resort I wanted. I don't blame them for not wanting to deal with all of that. OTU points is a relatively new offering and although it benefits members, it was probably instituted as a way for Disney to get some return. (They haven't been able to fill all of the DVC rooms they own with cash customers).

Keep in mind that you chose not to rent the last night from another member or to seek a point transfer prior to the 7 month window opening. I'm sorry you haven't been able to book what you want, but we are all constrained by the number of points we own or are willing to "rent" from other members.

Which brings me to my next issue....point allocations. What a joke. We're going next month, end of April, and as recently as 2 days ago I could get a BCV 1br for 6 of our 7 nights. But the 1br is 270 points, whereas in the fall it's only 211? Why is it 25% more points to go at a time of year when the demand is categorically lower?

Same with BWV. 5 weeks from now I can get a full week in a garden view, and as of yesterday could get 5 of 7 nights in a standard view! But 7 months from now I can only get 4 nights in a garden view. No standard. Next month I can get 2 bedroom standard view at Jambo, grand villas all over WDW and treehouses for every night of the trip if I wanted. As of 2 days ago I could get 6 of 7 nights at BLT in a 1br. I can basically get into just about any resort (BCV availability for that week is down to 3 nights as of today).
Should I go on? Heck, last monday when I checked I could get 3 consecutive nights in a Jambo concierge 1br! Aren't those the holy grail of rooms, the ones everybody says book at 11 months out all year? Apparently not.

I posted about this a few weeks ago and got several replies about how Easter moves around, etc.., but the reality is that somebody isn't doing their job. The points should be as dynamic as peoples travel habits. There is simply no excuse for having empty rooms all over the place at one time of year when the points are so "expensive", and having "cheap" rooms in the fall booking up 7 months out. They (DVC) are responsible for balancing the points so as to best occupy all rooms for all nights; this is obviously not going to happen, but this is way too imbalanced.
Everybody talks about how F&W attracts the crowds, but obviously the cheap points are a large factor as well. If they reallocated points and made it cheaper in the spring, we'd see a shift in travel and ideally some balance.

We travel almost exclusively in the fall, so my suggestion that they increase points in the fall is to my own detriment, but I don't really care, this is not an equitable balance. I understand some people own exactly enough for their time of year and don't want to see a change, but the system is not working properly if 7 months from now rooms are already booked solid, but 1 month from now there is rampant availability.

I don't agree. Overall, I think the system is working just fine.

Balancing demand with supply is not easy, especially since it changes frequently. When a reallocation does become necessary, computing the changes are also difficult. FWIW, I do not agree that the system is so far out of balance that a reallocation is needed just because there is availability left for a month in advance for an April stay. There is often availability to be found a month or so in advance. It can (and does) happen many times of the year. It's part and parcel of a point system.

Again, I'm sorry you aren't getting what you want right now. October is still a long ways out. Perhaps you will still be able to get the last night before your trip is here.

If you were just venting, feel free to ignore me.

 

[mjc2003]

Because legally, the one time use points are tied to a specific resort, just like your ownership. The one time use points come out of an ever changing pool of points owned by DVC, either reacquired through ROFR or foreclosure, or are unsold points.

That explains it. I wasn't aware, I actually thought it was the opposite; that if I buy one time BCV points there were existing BCV points. This makes more sense.

You feel strongly, be sure you let DVC Member Satisfaction team know!

Bobbi

I have, I sent an email last night. I'll be interested to see what type of response I get.

Dynamic points?

So if Bob and Jane want to do a big family reunion trip in a few years and they really want to conserve points to get there, and they pick a slow season a few years from now, and everyone makes their vacations requests and plans for September, and then the points get released for the year and suddenly they can't go for as many nights, and this happens every year - you think that would be a better system?

Where did I suggest that this should happen yearly? But yes, I do think a system that balances out supply and demand vis a vis point allocations is inherently better.

I plan my vacations three to four years out - the last thing I need is the point requirement changing on me all the time.

The reality is that points can be reallocated, so all the planning in the world isn't going to change that. I'm talking about a reality, not a hypothetical. Point reallocations have happened before and they will again. There is no guarantee that the trip your currently planning for 2017 isn't going to be affected by a point allocation change, correct? As for "all the time", I again ask, where and when did I suggest that this should be an annual event?

Keep in mind that you chose not to rent the last night from another member or to seek a point transfer prior to the 7 month window opening. I'm sorry you haven't been able to book what you want, but we are all constrained by the number of points we own or are willing to "rent" from other members.

With all due respect, I didn't choose to not rent that night or do a transfer. I started trying to rent that night from another owner several months ago. I couldn't find anybody who owned at BCV willing to give up just 33 points, and the 2 offers I did get were at $14 a point. That's $462 for one night, whereas the one time rental would have cost me $105. In light of that difference, I opted to wait because if the one time point rental didn't work out, I could always just get a room with the member discount for around the same price or stay in the regular BC for a night. But I did try.
Also, I didn't choose not to seek a point transfer, I DID a transfer at the 11 month mark but miscalculated by 7 points.

I don't agree. Overall, I think the system is working just fine.

I don't think the system isn't working per se, but this is an example of how the current point allocations are clearly imbalanced. How imbalanced is subject to debate, I guess. I guess I would ask, do you think it makes sense that BWV has 1 bedrooms available for 271 points 5 weeks from today but has no availability 7 months from today at 213 points a week? I'm not suggesting that there can't or shouldn't be busy times and limited supply at certain popular times (which is why I bought at BCV and book at the 11 month window), but points are supposed to be allocated to counterbalance supply/demand, not be driving force behind supply/demand. While it's nice for people that points are low in October, this isn't DVC throwing a bone to those who like to travel in the fall. This was set up because demand WAS lower in the fall. Now it's not. Hence my position.

Balancing demand with supply is not easy, especially since it changes frequently. When a reallocation does become necessary, computing the changes are also difficult.

I'm sure it's not easy, but that doesn't mean it can't be done. And yes, demand does change but not so frequently that it couldn't be addressed. I'm sure computing the changes is doable, they've done it before.

FWIW, I do not agree that the system is so far out of balance that a reallocation is needed just because there is availability left for a month in advance for an April stay. There is often availability to be found a month or so in advance. It can (and does) happen many times of the year. It's part and parcel of a point system.

I think it is out of balance when nearly every resort has availability for the end of April at a 25% premium over October, when most of the desired resorts are already booked. I'm not just looking at one week in a vacuum, I'm comparing late April to the fall, and when you juxtapose the two it's pretty apparent that something is off. Also, while I agree that there is often availability a month out, that is often NOT the case in the fall (other than maybe SSR), when most rooms are booked well in advance; and that's really the crux of my point: Outside of holiday weeks, you could make the case that the lowest point costs are currently allocated to the busiest time of the year. That seems odd to me, in that I believe the tail is wagging the dog a bit here.

Again, I'm sorry you aren't getting what you want right now. October is still a long ways out. Perhaps you will still be able to get the last night before your trip is here.

If you were just venting, feel free to ignore me.

The only thing I didn't get was that one night, and I can live with that. But this exercise in booking two trips during two different seasons really was eye opening for me as it relates to DVC and how the points are allocated.

I guess I am venting a bit....

 

[AmyB2006]

" I guess I would ask, do you think it makes sense that BWV has 1 bedrooms available for 271 points 5 weeks from today but has no availability 7 months from today at 213 points a week?"

But don't you think that by being lower in points anyway, is going to be more attractive, regardless of the time of year?

If it were reallocated and it were less points in April and more points in October, I think the situation would be reversed when it's August/September and you would be looking to book. You could conceivably be having the same problem if it were September and you were looking up room availability for either October (1 month out) or April (7 months out).

Also, if someone is going to cancel their reservation and not have points go into holding, it has to be done prior to 30 days. So I can actually see why there would be a lot of availability at this time for 5 weeks out. Last minute cancellations come into play.

Amy

 

[mjc2003]

But don't you think that by being lower in points anyway, is going to be more attractive, regardless of the time of year?

If it were reallocated and it were less points in April and more points in October, I think the situation would be reversed when it's August/September and you would be looking to book. You could conceivably be having the same problem if it were September and you were looking up room availability for either October (1 month out) or April (7 months out).

I'm not saying they should be flip-flopped, but more balance might result in more balanced availability. Obviously the cannot control everything, but the points are supposed to be allocated to meet demand. That's why there are point seasons in the first place. And yes, lower points will increase demand but again, the allotments are a measure of counterbalance.
My point is this: are the lower points driving demand in the fall? Yes. Whenever somebody new arrives here on these forums and asks why the fall is so busy, the response is always "Because of F&W, the low points cost and the holiday decorations". The points should not drive demand, they should be reactive to imbalances in the demand and simply be a controlling mechanism. Also, the fall has been very popular for years now--I remember starting looking into DVC in 2009 and hearing about how popular a time it was, that's why we eventually bought BCV, because I was told repeatedly that the fall is very busy and very hard to get into the Epcot resorts. That was 5 years ago. The trend is obvious and well entrenched.

So yes, more people would travel in April if the points were lower. Less people would travel in the fall if the points were higher. As long as they didn't do anything to aggressive (like swap the seasons), but found some middle ground, then we'd see a better balance.

Also, if someone is going to cancel their reservation and not have points go into holding, it has to be done prior to 30 days. So I can actually see why there would be a lot of availability at this time for 5 weeks out. Last minute cancellations come into play.

Amy

Yes, they definitely come into play but I have a hard time believing that there are so many cancellations that it suddenly opened up availability at every resort. Also, we did the same type of impromptu trip last November, and I checked every day for about 2 months for anything to open up and besides 1-2 nights here and there, nothing. Whereas next month there are entire 10 day stretches that are wide open. The availability is incomparable.

 

[Chuck S]

Yes, they definitely come into play but I have a hard time believing that there are so many cancellations that it suddenly opened up availability at every resort. Also, we did the same type of impromptu trip last November, and I checked every day for about 2 months for anything to open up and besides 1-2 nights here and there, nothing. Whereas next month there are entire 10 day stretches that are wide open. The availability is incomparable.

Remember, though, that currently almost all government employees and contract personnel are not traveling...so there very well may have been a lot of cancellations recently. They are saving money in case of furloughs.

 

[Greysword]

First to answer a concept you put forth, it is the proverbial "chicken and the egg".

Rooms are full due to low point cost, but point costs are low due to traditionally being a slower time of year. When one moves, the other adjusts as well. As such, DVC is controlling the only half they can.

Add to this, WDW implemented Food & Wine, Flower & garden, MNSSHP, the marathons, Gay Days, Pop Warner, and other events in an attempt to boost standard attendance at the resort, as a whole. Happily, these have been successful but without them, we would be back to extra slow seasons with hardly anyone around. While WDW is unlikely to remove these events, they may add more, which also effects attendance.

Now correct me if I am wrong, by requesting a "dynamic" point allocation system, you would like it to correct month to month or sooner? This is what I am hearing in your posts, so it will add/remove point costs as demand increases/decreases, much like airline tickets. If this is the case, it can not happen, simply due to time requirements. As the allocation year (calendar year) gets shorter, the system would need to re-balance the remaining points for the time available for each resort. In the last months of the year, the costs could be astronomical or nonexistent, depending on what is booked and what is left. It would only truly be even in January, and I'm not sure how bad it would look in December. Since the total points available can not move, shifting in this manner would be worse than a static chart.

Finally, if I recall correctly, point adjustments are supposed to be a big deal and an infrequent event to promote stability. Before the recession, I think there were only one or two point allocation changes (if memory serves). Once everyone started selling en mass, we've had additional allocations. Still, they should be rare, which is likely why DVC publishes point charts bi-annually these days; to promote stability and ensure the membership that management is not going to jerk us around with points.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

I believe you stated this is your first time even looking at this time frame so you're basing much of this on one year. And I know some is venting because to save money you gambled a little bit and weren't able to get what you wanted, but I'll share my thoughts relating to your concerns.

We do like to travel late Apr and May as well as Oct/Nov/Dec. And I'm often down there in Jan/Feb for conventions so a little experience with several seasons over a few years. Here is what I "see" but I know I don't have access to the type of info that DVC does so strictly what I've pulled from observations and attempted bookings.

First - other than holidays (and even those aren't as bad as some presume), the higher point times fill up more slowly. Apr/May are higher point times as is most of the summer. But there are a lot of frugal DVC owners that like the most bang for their buck - which is perfectly fine, and they have the flexibility to take advantage of the lower point seasons.

Second - the lower point times that correspond with times that Disney has worked to increase attendance have become very popular. But it's still not difficult to be able to book an accommodation of some sort at 11 months.

Third - other low point times are also as easy to book as the time frame you've outlined in Apr. For early Feb I booked a BCV 2BR w/2 queens at 2.5-3 months out. Then changed to a THV at approx 1 month out.

Fourth - availability does shift year to year. This year I'd say May showed less availability more quickly than it did 2 years ago. 3 years ago I had my choice of Epcot resort 1BR's and also booked a BCV studio at 7 months out for early/mid Oct. (just thought of our trip 3 years ago late April - not much available in studios or 1BR's 5-6 weeks out when I was trying to shift around so we could try VB for a couple of nights).

When I consider all of this I could understand if DVC did some reallocating but I still don't think it's mandatory. There is nothing in our agreement with DVC that we will be able to get rooms at any particular time - especially at 7 months out - and the time you were not able to for Oct is a well known popular time that you still could have been booked in a Home Resort priority period. And the times that book more slowly - they will most likely fill in. The time frame that they do has a little less relevance to me as long as at any time during the year I can book my room at 11 months and as long as the rooms do get booked and used - no matter if it's a week ahead or if it's 11 months. I'm just happy that I do have options and I've taken time trying to learn how and when I can take advantage of those options. Otherwise I know I have my home resort with the the allocation of points I purchased.

 

[mjc2003]

First to answer a concept you put forth, it is the proverbial "chicken and the egg".

Rooms are full due to low point cost, but point costs are low due to traditionally being a slower time of year. When one moves, the other adjusts as well. As such, DVC is controlling the only half they can.

Add to this, WDW implemented Food & Wine, Flower & garden, MNSSHP, the marathons, Gay Days, Pop Warner, and other events in an attempt to boost standard attendance at the resort, as a whole. Happily, these have been successful but without them, we would be back to extra slow seasons with hardly anyone around. While WDW is unlikely to remove these events, they may add more, which also effects attendance.

Now correct me if I am wrong, by requesting a "dynamic" point allocation system, you would like it to correct month to month or sooner? This is what I am hearing in your posts, so it will add/remove point costs as demand increases/decreases, much like airline tickets. If this is the case, it can not happen, simply due to time requirements. As the allocation year (calendar year) gets shorter, the system would need to re-balance the remaining points for the time available for each resort. In the last months of the year, the costs could be astronomical or nonexistent, depending on what is booked and what is left. It would only truly be even in January, and I'm not sure how bad it would look in December. Since the total points available can not move, shifting in this manner would be worse than a static chart.

Finally, if I recall correctly, point adjustments are supposed to be a big deal and an infrequent event to promote stability. Before the recession, I think there were only one or two point allocation changes (if memory serves). Once everyone started selling en mass, we've had additional allocations. Still, they should be rare, which is likely why DVC publishes point charts bi-annually these days; to promote stability and ensure the membership that management is not going to jerk us around with points.

Goodness no, I certainly don't mean month to month, I'm not even saying they have to be reallocated with any regularity but was more suggesting that maybe it's time for a reallocation in general. By dynamic I just mean changing the allocations to match the travel patterns. It's been several years since the fall became a really hot ticket, but the points have remained low and while the low points and various events in the fall are attracting large DVC crowds, the week I'm referencing is right in the middle of Flower & Garden but lots of rooms are sitting empty. .

I agree it's the chicken and the egg, and I agree that "As such, DVC is controlling the only half they can", but I guess I'm suggesting that they could do a better job controlling that half. I question how much control they're exhibiting when I see these disparities.

 

[disneynutz]

Disney's business is to sell DVC contracts and their decisions are for the most part based on increasing sales. They always put a PR spin on their policy and rule changes to make them easier to swallow but I don't see them benefiting us as much as they try to make out.

The OTU points came about after they re-allocated the point charts and cause many owners to come up short points, we are short 32 points for our usual vacations. Yes some people came out ahead. Remember one of their goals is to sell add on contracts and people who came up short did buy.

I will never understand the idea that Disney has a responsibility to maintain a point balance. Increasing the point cost for THV after they are sold out is a hit below the belt IMO. When a resort is booked, it's booked. Owners will just have to book somewhere else or some other time or buy home resort points to improve their chances. Adjusting points should only be required if the room category changes and they should do a better job of assigning categories before the resort opens not after.

Bill

 

[Chuck S]

... Adjusting points should only be required if the room category changes and they should do a better job of assigning categories before the resort opens not after.

Bill

Except in the case of SSR and the THVs...They did not exist when SSR first opened, and it took quite some time for them to become available, as the original treehouses were demolished and the current treehouses built on their footprint.

 

[Sammie]

At what point, do they stop though.

If they change the point structure and raise points for October, November and early December, and Members make the shift to another time period, what have you solved?

At this point there is absolutely no way that you know that wait list would fail to get you something.

Plus none of this would have happened had you had more points. I certainly do not think DVC should adjust the point structure for that. If they did raise the points for Fall, you could still be short, so again I see no gain to it, even for you.

 

[Sandisw]

My question is whether or not any rooms are still available in October for the time you are looking. I am not sure you can only look at the Epcot resorts and make the jump that the availability is out of whack. Food and wine is what contributes to those resorts being so booked as many non resort owners try to switch there for that so.e purpose.

And. last year, I had a much wider selection in March for booking my Memorial Day trip then there is this year. Remember, April is a school month so even if the points were lower, it may still be a less demand time than the fall. And, I agree that it's not necessarily about how far in advance things get booked but rather that they do and I am going to assume that if they see that overall things are getting booked, then supply/demand is being managed.

But, to give you hope, I ended up being able to change a 2 bedroom BW view to a 1 bedroom BW view in June last year for this past October for an extended weekend trip. I did do some searching and wait listing, but within 2 weeks it worked, so there is certainly a chance you'll end up with what you need.

 

[mjc2003]

At what point, do they stop though.

If they change the point structure and raise points for October, November and early December, and Members make the shift to another time period, what have you solved?

I don't see it as being so dramatic. Their job would be to figure out a formula that spreads out demand. Obviously a seismic shift in points would do the same for demand, but that's not what I'm asking for. For some reason people seem to think my point here is that something drastic has to be done, that's not my point. To answer your question, if they raise the points in the fall and that results in people traveling at different times that would solve the issue that I'm addressing. That would result in more balanced supply/demand, which is their responsibility.

At this point there is absolutely no way that you know that wait list would fail to get you something.

Not sure I even understand what you are saying here?

Plus none of this would have happened had you had more points. I certainly do not think DVC should adjust the point structure for that. If they did raise the points for Fall, you could still be short, so again I see no gain to it, even for you.

Wow. I'll try to work harder and maybe take some money from my kids college fund so I'll have enough points to make sure this doesn't happen!?

If they raise the points for the fall I would be short, I don't care. This isn't about making the point allocations meet MY current point needs. I'm not trying to change things to my advantage, in fact I've already stated in this thread that this would be to my detriment. But I'm more interested in the system being balanced as a whole, not just as it suits me.

My question is whether or not any rooms are still available in October for the time you are looking. I am not sure you can only look at the Epcot resorts and make the jump that the availability is out of whack. Food and wine is what contributes to those resorts being so booked as many non resort owners try to switch there for that so.e purpose.

And. last year, I had a much wider selection in March for booking my Memorial Day trip then there is this year. Remember, April is a school month so even if the points were lower, it may still be a less demand time than the fall. And, I agree that it's not necessarily about how far in advance things get booked but rather that they do and I am going to assume that if they see that overall things are getting booked, then supply/demand is being managed.

But, to give you hope, I ended up being able to change a 2 bedroom BW view to a 1 bedroom BW view in June last year for this past October for an extended weekend trip. I did do some searching and wait listing, but within 2 weeks it worked, so there is certainly a chance you'll end up with what you need.

Sandi, last year we made a trip in early November and booked it around the same timeframe as our current April trip, about 5-6 weeks out. I couldn't get a room anywhere in a 1BR except for SSR for 7 nights. However, at the end of April I can get a 1BR ANYWHERE except for BCV for 7 nights (BLT was available 6 of 7 nights as of last week).

Of course there are currently rooms available for October outside of Epcot. But it's 7 months away. When we get closer, I'm quite certain we'll see much less available than I'm seeing now for the end of April. Yes, it's F&W, but it's also the low points that driving excess traffic to that time of year. Again, I have no issue with the reality that certain times will be busier and there's nothing DVC can do to stop that, but this is far too imbalanced when paired with the 25% higher point cost in April.

I basically got everything I needed by booking our 3 rooms at BCV at the 11 month mark. The one night I need is not a big deal, I'll get it with cash or maybe it'll open up with points. I was just using that as a frame of reference, because I was simultaneously booking an April trip and adding that night in the fall.

 

[Sandisw]

I don't see it as being so dramatic. Their job would be to figure out a formula that spreads out demand. Obviously a seismic shift in points would do the same for demand, but that's not what I'm asking for. For some reason people seem to think my point here is that something drastic has to be done, that's not my point. To answer your question, if they raise the points in the fall and that results in people traveling at different times that would solve the issue that I'm addressing. That would result in more balanced supply/demand, which is their responsibility.



Not sure I even understand what you are saying here?



Wow. I'll try to work harder and maybe take some money from my kids college fund so I'll have enough points to make sure this doesn't happen!?

If they raise the points for the fall I would be short, I don't care. This isn't about making the point allocations meet MY current point needs. I'm not trying to change things to my advantage, in fact I've already stated in this thread that this would be to my detriment. But I'm more interested in the system being balanced as a whole, not just as it suits me.



Sandi, last year we made a trip in early November and booked it around the same timeframe as our current April trip, about 5-6 weeks out. I couldn't get a room anywhere in a 1BR except for SSR for 7 nights. However, at the end of April I can get a 1BR ANYWHERE except for BCV for 7 nights (BLT was available 6 of 7 nights as of last week).

Of course there are currently rooms available for October outside of Epcot. But it's 7 months away. When we get closer, I'm quite certain we'll see much less available than I'm seeing now for the end of April. Yes, it's F&W, but it's also the low points that driving excess traffic to that time of year. Again, I have no issue with the reality that certain times will be busier and there's nothing DVC can do to stop that, but this is far too imbalanced when paired with the 25% higher point cost in April.

I basically got everything I needed by booking our 3 rooms at BCV at the 11 month mark. The one night I need is not a big deal, I'll get it with cash or maybe it'll open up with points. I was just using that as a frame of reference, because I was simultaneously booking an April trip and adding that night in the fall.

Which I think supports that its not about the points charts per se but rather about what is going on and when people can and will vacation. F & W, Halloween, and the holidays make it a very popular time to visit.

Even the beginning of November is popular due to time off in schools--ie: Jersey week--and Veteran's Day.

Other than Easter falling in it, I just don't see the mid to late April every being as busy as the fall, even if the points were readjusted to cost less and the fall to more. I think you'd still have the same limited availability at those Epcot resorts around the 7 month mark any time October to January.

It's the reason we own at BWV--for the sole purpose of booking there for F & W on the years we decide to go...and I'd bet I'm not alone. Raising the points charts, even swapping the times, wouldn't prevent many from still booking those two resorts, IMO.

I guess the plus side is that for members who have the flexibility to visit at any time, there are times of the year when it is actually possible to book last minute trips.

 

[mjc2003]

Which I think supports that its not about the points charts per se but rather about what is going on and when people can and will vacation. F & W, Halloween, and the holidays make it a very popular time to visit.

Even the beginning of November is popular due to time off in schools--ie: Jersey week--and Veteran's Day.

Other than Easter falling in it, I just don't see the mid to late April every being as busy as the fall, even if the points were readjusted to cost less and the fall to more. I think you'd still have the same limited availability at those Epcot resorts around the 7 month mark any time October to January.

It's the reason we own at BWV--for the sole purpose of booking there for F & W on the years we decide to go...and I'd bet I'm not alone. Raising the points charts, even swapping the times, wouldn't prevent many from still booking those two resorts, IMO.

I guess the plus side is that for members who have the flexibility to visit at any time, there are times of the year when it is actually possible to book last minute trips.

No question the fall will be busy because of all these reasons you mention. And we too own at BCV for that reason, to book early. I also agree that BCV and BWV specifically would both be busy, but my contention is that the points should reflect the demand of these busy times. To my simple mind, having the rooms be "cheaper" during the busiest times sort of belies the logic behind having point seasons to begin with. The fluctuation in point costs from season to season are supposed to counterbalance demand.

I am contending that in the fall, the low points is contributing to the demand. And while I do agree that this would remain a popular time, the low points ARE a motivation for some who do travel in the fall. And that's ok, but why not see if they can drive some of that traffic to less busy times? Every time somebody posts here asking why the fall is so busy, the response is always the same: "F&W, low points, and holiday parties".

All I'm really saying is that point allocations are supposed to be a reactive mechanism that controls supply/demand to the extent that it can. The lower point seasons are designed to drive more traffic during slower times, and the high point seasons are to control demand by raising the "price". So why are the points the lowest (almost) during the busiest time of year? Why have high/low point seasons at all if they aren't going to coincide with high/low supply demand? Simply doesn't make sense.

 

[DougEMG]

No question the fall will be busy because of all these reasons you mention. And we too own at BCV for that reason, to book early. I also agree that BCV and BWV specifically would both be busy, but my contention is that the points should reflect the demand of these busy times. To my simple mind, having the rooms be "cheaper" during the busiest times sort of belies the logic behind having point seasons to begin with. The fluctuation in point costs from season to season are supposed to counterbalance demand.

I am contending that in the fall, the low points is contributing to the demand. And while I do agree that this would remain a popular time, the low points ARE a motivation for some who do travel in the fall. And that's ok, but why not see if they can drive some of that traffic to less busy times? Every time somebody posts here asking why the fall is so busy, the response is always the same: "F&W, low points, and holiday parties".

All I'm really saying is that point allocations are supposed to be a reactive mechanism that controls supply/demand to the extent that it can. The lower point seasons are designed to drive more traffic during slower times, and the high point seasons are to control demand by raising the "price". So why are the points the lowest (almost) during the busiest time of year? Why have high/low point seasons at all if they aren't going to coincide with high/low supply demand? Simply doesn't make sense.

I'm kind of wondering the same thing as you. It does seem as if there are low point cost times that have high demand, which just seems to be the opposite of how it should be.