Once again, a school, a shooter....and we do the drill yet again.....

[Dan Murphy]

This time in St. Louis. A person, disgruntled about something, another AR-15, 600 rounds of ammunition in many high capacity 30-round magazines. A dead student, a dead teacher, seven other students hospitalized.

Some day it would be so nice to not have to hear of another school shooting.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/hurt-shooting-st-louis-high-school-suspect-custody/story?id=92003996



15 year old student, Alexandria Bell, left, and 61 year old teacher, Jean Kuczka, both now dead.

 

[PollyannaMom]

 

[slo]

It’s all so sad
There was an “active shooter” scare at DD19’s HS last year (it was all over our local news). It was the scariest day of my life and my DD’s life. The shooter was supposedly on the third floor- DD was on the third floor. Every surrounding town’s police, county police, state police was surrounding the school, SWAT sharpshooters we’re on the roofs of the school - a very frightening scene. I could go on and on about this day. DD saying to me on the phone, “Mommy…I’m so scared” and me telling her to breath and pray and that God is with her. NO PARENT ANYWHERE should have to tell there child this at school. NO PARENT ANYWHERE should feel the helplessness that I felt that day. Thanks be to God it was a false alarm due to a student thinking he heard someone with a gun in a bathroom stall. The student truly believed there was a threat and called it in.

Something needs to be done - this is out of control. I don’t know what can be done and I’m not going to act like I have the answers, all I know is something HAS to be done.

I am eternally grateful that this was a false alarm and that I have my child. But what about the poor parents that have lost their child to this and the families of teachers and other school workers that have lost their loved ones? Those poor poor people - I can’t even imagine their grief.

I pray all the time for this to stop someday - it just has to

ETA….I am not sharing our story to make this about me. This thread is about the poor individuals who passed away. May God be with their families during this horrible time.

 

[MamaBelle4]

I originally emojied "sad". But I'm not sad. I'm infuriated.

We are the only country in the world that this happens in on a regular basis. There is a reason for that and there is a solution.

Our kids deserve better and we are failing them.

 

[dvcgirl67]

I originally emojied "sad". But I'm not sad. I'm infuriated.

We are the only country in the world that this happens in on a regular basis. There is a reason for that and there is a solution.

Our kids deserve better and we are failing them.

100% right. And yes, it's so infuriating to me as well. I hadn't even caught this one in the news until Dan posted about it....not enough victims to make a big splash. What a country.

 

[fla4fun]

This person was supposedly a recent graduate of the school, so I think he probably had a specific reason for targeting his former school. I was surprised when I heard that, since so many of these school attacks seem to be more random.

It amazes me when I hear about how these people were loners, with no friends, etc., like that somehow makes it understandable. I was bullied in school. I did not fit in with any of the other kids. I had another student pull a knife on me because she didn’t like that the school bus driver assigned me to sit with her. I just turned and walked away. I didn’t have friends to hang out with or to offer support. I drove to school as soon as it was possible, and focused on my classes and that was it. I never, ever, thought about doing anything to the other students. We really need to shine a light on the factors that cause someone to think that doing something like this is okay, and intervene before it reaches this point. It’s not okay, under any circumstances.

My thoughts go out to the victim’s families. I wish we would get to the place where I never had to type that sentence again for this reason.

 

[Frwinkley]

Until it happens to the family of a powerful politician, nothing will change. I don't wish this upon anyone,

 

[DisneyOma]

I work in a school - and I carry a "bullet proof" backpack with me every day. We drill at least 4 times a year for an active shooter in the building, and teachers have bought escape ladders with their own money, unscrewed window hinges so they open more, bought shades for their windows, and made special doorstops that work on our waxed floors. We have a system to report unhappy, angry, lonely, "off" students, in an effort to catch an issue before it becomes deadly. I've got two students I work with now that are going on that list tomorrow. We have to spend time looking at teenagers and think "would he get a gun and come to the school to kill us?" That's the reality of schools these days.

"bullet proof" is typed this way because I know my bag would not stop a semi automatic barrage, or anything bigger than a handgun, and it only covers my torso.

 

[prairie_girl]

Until it happens to the family of a powerful politician, nothing will change. I don't wish this upon anyone,

Unfortunately, even that might not be enough. It didn’t change when it was five and six year olds.

For your sake, I hope something makes a difference.

 

[VandVsmama]

You might want to edit your post to remove your DD's name.

 

[GreatLakes]

It is sad. I saw a report about how the shooter had no friends or family. That isn't normal. Humans are social creatures. My son has a active shooter drilled and it is a sad state of affairs.

 

[Travel60]

The politicians will offer thoughts and prayers. What more do you want.

 

[NotUrsula]

It's my neighborhood. This is one of the high schools that my DD considered attending (she chose a different one, but many of her former middle school classmates are students there.)

The saddest thing of all is that it was all anyone was talking about here yesterday, but by today the conversations had mostly been dropped by everyone except the families of that particular school. It happens so often now that those not directly affected have become inured to the horror of it.

 

[TLSnell1981]

You will not deter criminals nor will you stop them from carrying guns. It's way deeper than a law abiding citizen carrying. Problem... nobody wants to tackle those issues.

 

[WDWEPCOT]

I don’t want to start a war but it’s not criminals it’s not about guns - it’s mental illness - this country decided thanks to big ins that mental illness was to expensive and did away with so much coverage
Try getting into a Dr - I live in town where this happened - it can take up to and over a year to get an appt to see a Dr - that’s with ins - maybe you don’t care for the Dr - great you got another year until you may get spot with another Dr
You get 15 mins with Dr - they push a pill at you - get a counselor - guess what ? You will be months getting one of them too
What if pill doesn’t work ? Back to Dr you don’t care for - could be months to get back in - try another pill
Your ins may not cover more than 8 visits
Emergency mental health - absolute JOKE - don’t even get me started - I’ve dealt with all of this for 57 years - way too many rules way too much for people already struggling - you had better be loaded with cash you will need it even if you have ins
A majority of inner city homeless are mental patients - nowhere to go
These people self medicate with drugs & alcohol - it’s a vicious cycle - crime to get money for the drugs & alcohol - I’ve watched the psych ward just ditch them at the door - off you go into the streets
If someone is suffering YOU can’t always tell OR know - don’t fool yourself and think you can or say - they should have known - grossly unfair
These people are expert at hiding what is going on with them - lying - most put up very good fronts until it’s too late
Not everyone knows or thinks I need to be spying on EVERY aspect of my love one’s life and verifying it every minute of the day - which is what you would need to do
The readily availability of guns in this country does not help - gun law - so if you have ever been committed you can’t legally purchase gun from a STORE but you CAN from a gun show - you can have someone else get one - all the laws in the world are not going to stop this
Dealing with the issues that ARE causing This is what will Help this - otherwise we are putting a band aide on a BIg Hole in a Huge Damn
These are MY thoughts and My experiences - you are Free to think and feel anyway you want to and think I’m wrong and crazy and I respect that - I only request - please no fighting war - I’m just stating this country does not value mental illness and it’s a big factor in these incidents - it needs to be addressed
We ALL need to keep these issue up to try and get them to stop - the incident is horrible but the incidents trigger trauma which can lead to - mental illness - in kids life long problems !
I pray for healing to ALL the kids & families impacted by this tragic horrible incident I fear we are getting to used to these things and that in itself is a problem

 

[MamaBelle4]

During the assault weapon ban (1994-2004), mass shooting deaths were an average of 4.8/year.

2005-2017 they were 23.8/year. Let's not pretend it didn't work.

And if you truly think that healthcare is the issue, I surely hope you are fighting for the same universal healthcare coverage every other country has. You know, the countries where children do not have to practice active shooter drills.

If you don't, then you either don't care that children or dying or you really don't think that that is the issue.

4 out of 5 of my kids are in school. My youngest starts next year. My second oldest had a classmate suspended because he threatened to bring a gun in. That was last year when she was in 5th grade.

I'm tired of this. I'm tired of thoughts and prayers. I'm tired of "it's not the guns! it's the healthcare!" And then no one does anything about either.

You don't believe it's because of how easy it is to get a gun? Fine. Let's try universal healthcare coverage first. If that doesn't work then the weapons ban. I'm sick of these arguments that lead absolutely no where.

 

[PollyannaMom]

I things we need both better mental health care and better gun control.

I also think we need some deep changes to our society, and I'm not even sure what all of them are.

 

[WDWEPCOT]

During the assault weapon ban (1994-2004), mass shooting deaths were an average of 4.8/year.

2005-2017 they were 23.8/year. Let's not pretend it didn't work.

And if you truly think that healthcare is the issue, I surely hope you are fighting for the same universal healthcare coverage every other country has. You know, the countries where children do not have to practice active shooter drills.

If you don't, then you either don't care that children or dying or you really don't think that that is the issue.

4 out of 5 of my kids are in school. My youngest starts next year. My second oldest had a classmate suspended because he threatened to bring a gun in. That was last year when she was in 5th grade.

I'm tired of this. I'm tired of thoughts and prayers. I'm tired of "it's not the guns! it's the healthcare!" And then no one does anything about either.

You don't believe it's because of how easy it is to get a gun? Fine. Let's try universal healthcare coverage first. If that doesn't work then the weapons ban. I'm sick of these arguments that lead absolutely no where.

I’m NOT arguing - we Should HAVE universal health care for all period !!! Again - my opinion - your free to feel anyway about this issue as you would like - I’ve stated I don’t wish to start a argument -

Even with ins you can’t afford to be sick in this Country - you will go broke - they want their money and they want it NOW

It’s disgusting that kids HAVE to practice active shooter drills - the trauma & stress that causes some kids is mind blowing - sadly banning guns will not make this go away - doesn’t work with Drugs / didn’t work with alcohol etc - there are too many things in play - but the common thing most of the time is Mental Illness that fact is NOT discussed NOT addressed - Guns are way too easy to obtain I agree with you - just like drugs - I live where drugs are a huge problem like so many other people - high crime - lots of shootings / murders -

I don’t know the answers I wish I did - I just know the current situation is broke - officials will do nothing - there are common problems every time - we’ve had Huge school shootings / concert shootings / movie theater shootings - nothing changes - I wish I had the answers - but every time the person is described as someone suffering from mental illness

 

[sam_gordon]

During the assault weapon ban (1994-2004), mass shooting deaths were an average of 4.8/year.

2005-2017 they were 23.8/year. Let's not pretend it didn't work.

First, if you're going to post statistics, it's a good idea to link to your source.
Second, using your logic, that should mean the time before the assault weapons ban would have had an increased number of mass shooting deaths. Let's see...
Source

OK, according to that site, we never got over 15 mass shootings, so that doesn't match where you got an average of 23.8/year. BUT, if you look before '94, there were 17 in the decade before the ban. There were 17 during the ban. But the numbers don't match your claims, so let's look elsewhere...

Source

Again, the numbers don't support an average of 23.8/year between 2005-2017. But look at the curve. It continued to rise DURING the assault weapons ban time frame. So did the ban actually work?

This is a multi-faceted problem. Anyone who points to a single solution and says "THIS will stop mass shootings" IMO has blinders on. I don't know what the answer is, I wish I did. I feel sorry for all of the families affected by one of these. I have one child in college and one in HS, and one an elementary school teacher. I hope they never have to face anything like this. But I also realize it's not just schools that can be affected... look at the "non school" mass shooting locations.

And realistically, how many more posts before this thread gets locked or deleted?

 

[MamaBelle4]

First, if you're going to post statistics, it's a good idea to link to your source.
Second, using your logic, that should mean the time before the assault weapons ban would have had an increased number of mass shooting deaths. Let's see...
Source
View attachment 713838
OK, according to that site, we never got over 15 mass shootings, so that doesn't match where you got an average of 23.8/year. BUT, if you look before '94, there were 17 in the decade before the ban. There were 17 during the ban. But the numbers don't match your claims, so let's look elsewhere...

Source
View attachment 713839
Again, the numbers don't support an average of 23.8/year between 2005-2017. But look at the curve. It continued to rise DURING the assault weapons ban time frame. So did the ban actually work?

This is a multi-faceted problem. Anyone who points to a single solution and says "THIS will stop mass shootings" IMO has blinders on. I don't know what the answer is, I wish I did. I feel sorry for all of the families affected by one of these. I have one child in college and one in HS, and one an elementary school teacher. I hope they never have to face anything like this. But I also realize it's not just schools that can be affected... look at the "non school" mass shooting locations.

And realistically, how many more posts before this thread gets locked or deleted?

It was on politifact. But I don't have the page pulled up any longer.

And the ban did result in a decrease from the previous period, it was certainly smaller than after the ban, but still smaller.

I would argue that any child's life saved during a ban is a higher priority than someone's imagined right to own a weapon designed for use in a battlefield.

ETA: The discrepancies between numbers on your graphs and what I used as a reference point is likely what parameters the source used to determine how many deaths constituted a "mass shooting" or similar parameters.