Old Key West or Saratoga Springs - Buying Direct

[Where'sPiglet?]

Thank you everyone for the wonderful insights.

Would any of you anticipate the availability of SSR to change over the next two or three years? I'm leaning towards OKW simply because there is a small benefit at the 11 month window (grand villa bookings) where SSR seems to be wide open at the 7 month mark for all room types.

OKW is $10 pp cheaper and has longer deed.

We only plan to stay at OKW for extended family vacations with Grandparents. All of the other times we plan to stay at SSR or another DVC resort.

How did you narrow it down to these two? Is it primarily because of price and the points charts?

Is there a specific resort you want to stay at most of the time? It might make sense to make that be your home resort even if it costs a bit more up front.

Speculation on SSR availability: I think when the pandemic lessens, availability will be tight all over DVC when more people are using their points. Many international owners have had points banked further into the future than normal, due to the travel restrictions. If/when the 50% borrowing rule goes away, there might be tight availability then as well.

Aside from pandemic availability issues, I do think the renovated rooms have been very well received. They are one of the few resorts that has the Murphy bed as the 2nd queen. However, the location and sprawling size of the campus are still things that are downsides for many people. I think availability may be slightly tighter than pre-Covid, but still pretty open compared to the priority locations.

Good luck with your decision.

 

[Jimmy Geppetto]

How did you narrow it down to these two? Is it primarily because of price and the points charts?

Is there a specific resort you want to stay at most of the time? It might make sense to make that be your home resort even if it costs a bit more up front.

Speculation on SSR availability: I think when the pandemic lessens, availability will be tight all over DVC when more people are using their points. Many international owners have had points banked further into the future than normal, due to the travel restrictions. If/when the 50% borrowing rule goes away, there might be tight availability then as well.

Aside from pandemic availability issues, I do think the renovated rooms have been very well received. They are one of the few resorts that has the Murphy bed as the 2nd queen. However, the location and sprawling size of the campus are still things that are downsides for many people. I think availability may be slightly tighter than pre-Covid, but still pretty open compared to the priority locations.

Good luck with your decision.

Yes, chose these two simply for price based on direct price being the most reasonable compared to resale. We own at RIV and plan to use these additional points there and at future resorts.

 

[RoseGold]

OKW has grand villa booking priority, which is consistently sold out. SSR doesn't really have any meaningful booking priority.

Maybe you never plan on booking this, but it does matter for the value of the points IMO.

 

[Jwaire]

Would any of you anticipate the availability of SSR to change over the next two or three years? I'm leaning towards OKW simply because there is a small benefit at the 11 month window (grand villa bookings) where SSR seems to be wide open at the 7 month mark for all room types.

Even with the renovated rooms and the growing popularity of DS, I don't personally think SRR with change too much because the resort is just so massive. However, availability was tight at SSR this year for the fall/holiday season. You used to could be able to get a weeklong room there anytime you wanted. This year was different. I had to pluck a 2 bedroom day by day. That is unusual.

Sounds like you have your heart set on OKW. At least with OKW, there's a reason to purchase direct (extended contract). So, go for it!

 

[shoegal9]

We own at Copper Creek, Animal Kingdom and Polynesian- and I really really want a resale contract at Saratoga. The refurbed studios are beautiful. I love the pools, and the walk to disney springs is priceless. We did OKW for the first time in March. I liked the charming feel, but the main pool is tiny and I felt stuck. Had to bus or drive everywhere.

 

[we"reofftoneverland]

How did you narrow it down to these two? Is it primarily because of price and the points charts?

Is there a specific resort you want to stay at most of the time? It might make sense to make that be your home resort even if it costs a bit more up front.

Speculation on SSR availability: I think when the pandemic lessens, availability will be tight all over DVC when more people are using their points. Many international owners have had points banked further into the future than normal, due to the travel restrictions. If/when the 50% borrowing rule goes away, there might be tight availability then as well.

Aside from pandemic availability issues, I do think the renovated rooms have been very well received. They are one of the few resorts that has the Murphy bed as the 2nd queen. However, the location and sprawling size of the campus are still things that are downsides for many people. I think availability may be slightly tighter than pre-Covid, but still pretty open compared to the priority locations.

Good luck with your decision.

Wow didn’t realize SSR was more expensive direct than okw. That would make it a no brainer for me. We also like the new rooms at SSR in terms of them being new and clean, but... they are not user friendly. For example, the studio doesn’t have the flip down bed under the tv and the only other furniture in the room is a bench. That’s it. No desk or small table and chairs. Pretty awful set up. There is nowhere to sit except the sofa/bed or the bench. Very uncomfortable.

 

[Where'sPiglet?]

Wow didn’t realize SSR was more expensive direct than okw. That would make it a no brainer for me. We also like the new rooms at SSR in terms of them being new and clean, but... they are not user friendly. For example, the studio doesn’t have the flip down bed under the tv and the only other furniture in the room is a bench. That’s it. No desk or small table and chairs. Pretty awful set up. There is nowhere to sit except the sofa/bed or the bench. Very uncomfortable.

Yeah, they went from $165 to $180 a few months ago for SSR direct.

OKW was at $165 but it might be at $170 now.

I spent a night in a renovated SSR studio and I do remember not having the separate table but didn't spend enough time to notice all the other things you did.

Yes, chose these two simply for price based on direct price being the most reasonable compared to resale. We own at RIV and plan to use these additional points there and at future resorts.

Are your Riviera points direct also? If you primarily want to use your new points at Riviera, you might consider paying the additional cost to add on at Riviera. It appears to be more difficult to get in there at the 7 month mark than either OKW or SSR. The contract at Riv is much longer than at either SSR or OKW. What would you do in 2054 or 2057 and you lose these new points? Would you buy again? If you plan to buy again at that point, it'd be cheaper to just get a long-term contract now.

One downside would be if you were serious about wanting that OKW GV and didn't own there. That sounds like it wouldn't be a frequent thing; you might be able to rent points from an OKW owner for that special event.

 

[ars13]

First time buyer and poster here!

I am in a similar situation. Over the last three months I have been going back and forth between so many resorts. I was 100% committed to poly, then to CCV, but I ended up landing on SSR. Here’s why:

1 I am (fairly) confident that I can plan 7 months out and generally get a room that I want at a specific resort. I realized this once I saw some availability charts for Poly… sure maybe I won’t be staying beach club during festivals, or Wildernesses Lodge during Christmas, and forget about Animal Kingdom concierge, but on the off season and during the summer the 7th month window seems fine (I hope). So with this knowledge I decreased the importance of the home resort. I am differentiating between where I want to stay and where I want to own. And we are pretty flexible on where to stay.

2. SSR is cheaper, we can buy more points, AND their maintenance dues are significantly lower than OKW. The math I did for SSR was $177/point over 33 years (length of contract) is $5.36/point plus maintenance dues of $7.12 comes out to $12.48 a point.
When doing the same math for OKW I came to 12.99 - meaning I see OKW as actually more expensive over the course of their contracts because of their maintenance fees. Now maintenance fees will go up, but that’s impossible to predict and all resorts maintenance fees will go.

Now if RR had lower maintenance fees, not had the restriction on resale (in case we need to sell in the future), and better availability charts then that would have been a top contender.

I will actually be buying today so if anyone can talk me out of it or show me the error of my ways on SSR, please do!

 

[Jimmy Geppetto]

First time buyer and poster here!

I am in a similar situation. Over the last three months I have been going back and forth between so many resorts. I was 100% committed to poly, then to CCV, but I ended up landing on SSR. Here’s why:

1 I am (fairly) confident that I can plan 7 months out and generally get a room that I want at a specific resort. I realized this once I saw some availability charts for Poly… sure maybe I won’t be staying beach club during festivals, or Wildernesses Lodge during Christmas, and forget about Animal Kingdom concierge, but on the off season and during the summer the 7th month window seems fine (I hope). So with this knowledge I decreased the importance of the home resort. I am differentiating between where I want to stay and where I want to own. And we are pretty flexible on where to stay.

2. SSR is cheaper, we can buy more points, AND their maintenance dues are significantly lower than OKW. The math I did for SSR was $177/point over 33 years (length of contract) is $5.36/point plus maintenance dues of $7.12 comes out to $12.48 a point.
When doing the same math for OKW I came to 12.99 - meaning I see OKW as actually more expensive over the course of their contracts because of their maintenance fees. Now maintenance fees will go up, but that’s impossible to predict and all resorts maintenance fees will go.

Now if RR had lower maintenance fees, not had the restriction on resale (in case we need to sell in the future), and better availability charts then that would have been a top contender.

I will actually be buying today so if anyone can talk me out of it or show me the error of my ways on SSR, please do!

Thanks for sharing the math you've done. I hadnt done that. I assume you are using 2057 end date for OKW as opposed to 2042? Only thing to keep in mind is that SSR dues will likely climb now that refurbishments are completed. This happened at OKW if you look at the dues trending over the last two years. They spike after a hard goods refurbishment.

From my perspective, owning at SSR gives you no home resort advantage (at least not currently) as every room type is available at 7 month mark. Whereas at OKW you have their Grand Villas which book up at the 11 month mark almost immediately so there is an advantage to having home resort privileges there. The other reason Im leaning towards OKW is because of the point chart. It's impossible to beat. But... that only matters if you plan to stay there.

Im leaning towards doing what you have done... just keep thinking about it for three more months! haha.

 

[DVChris]

If you’re buying direct, there are some discounts that expire tomorrow 9/8 for SSR, OKW, AKL, Poly, RR, and AUL. Of course new discounts can be offered the next day which may or may not be better. I’ve read a good strategy is to buy before the deadline and see if the next set of discounts are better for your purchase. If so, you can cancel since you’re within the 10 day cancellation period and buy with the new discount. Just an idea!

 

[Jimmy Geppetto]

If you’re buying direct, there are some discounts that expire tomorrow 9/8 for SSR, OKW, AKL, Poly, RR, and AUL. Of course new discounts can be offered the next day which may or may not be better. I’ve read a good strategy is to buy before the deadline and see if the next set of discounts are better for your purchase. If so, you can cancel since you’re within the 10 day cancellation period and buy with the new discount. Just an idea!

Yes! I did exactly this with my RR direct purchase. The September promotion was not better so we did well. Considering doing the same here.

 

[DonMacGregor]

First time buyer and poster here!

I am in a similar situation. Over the last three months I have been going back and forth between so many resorts. I was 100% committed to poly, then to CCV, but I ended up landing on SSR. Here’s why:

1 I am (fairly) confident that I can plan 7 months out and generally get a room that I want at a specific resort. I realized this once I saw some availability charts for Poly… sure maybe I won’t be staying beach club during festivals, or Wildernesses Lodge during Christmas, and forget about Animal Kingdom concierge, but on the off season and during the summer the 7th month window seems fine (I hope). So with this knowledge I decreased the importance of the home resort. I am differentiating between where I want to stay and where I want to own. And we are pretty flexible on where to stay.

2. SSR is cheaper, we can buy more points, AND their maintenance dues are significantly lower than OKW. The math I did for SSR was $177/point over 33 years (length of contract) is $5.36/point plus maintenance dues of $7.12 comes out to $12.48 a point.
When doing the same math for OKW I came to 12.99 - meaning I see OKW as actually more expensive over the course of their contracts because of their maintenance fees. Now maintenance fees will go up, but that’s impossible to predict and all resorts maintenance fees will go.

Now if RR had lower maintenance fees, not had the restriction on resale (in case we need to sell in the future), and better availability charts then that would have been a top contender.

I will actually be buying today so if anyone can talk me out of it or show me the error of my ways on SSR, please do!

This is similar to the analysis I did. We live in So Cal, so there's a less than zero chance we'll be traveling to Florida during any of the peak travel periods, mostly because the weather here is better, and I still think DL is better at the holidays. More intimate and more immersive with the decorations (HM overlay anyone?). We like to travel to Orlando in late winter of early spring for our longer trip, and we'll do a super short trip in late summer or early fall to catch F&W. We also only stay in 1 or 2 bedroom villas. Hate studios.

As a result, SSR is a great foundation contract for us: as of today, the last week of March has 1 and 2BD villas available as SSR, AKK, OKW, CCV (1BD only), RR, AKJ, VGF (1 BD only), BRV, BWV (1BD only), and BLT (1BD only). And this is at 5 months out too. We also have a small contract at BRV for the time being as Wilderness Lodge is actually our preferred resort. We will add to that later.

 

[Wedgeout]

Another nice option for owning at OKW is the Near Hospitality House booking category. Same points. Booking priority helps to get those.

 

[davidl81]

As far as buying OKW vs SSR (not comparing actually staying at the resorts) there may be a few advantages for OKW. Lower buy in cost (offset by higher dues though of about $1 a year per point more), and three more years on the contract. You do get the GV booking priority at OKW, whereas owning at SSR gives no true priority as almost everything at SSR will be open at 7 months.
One other factor may be resale cost of OKW extended versus SSR. Is there a noticeable gap there?

 

[DVChris]

This is similar to the analysis I did. We live in So Cal, so there's a less than zero chance we'll be traveling to Florida during any of the peak travel periods, mostly because the weather here is better, and I still think DL is better at the holidays. More intimate and more immersive with the decorations (HM overlay anyone?). We like to travel to Orlando in late winter of early spring for our longer trip, and we'll do a super short trip in late summer or early fall to catch F&W. We also only stay in 1 or 2 bedroom villas. Hate studios.

As a result, SSR is a great foundation contract for us: as of today, the last week of March has 1 and 2BD villas available as SSR, AKK, OKW, CCV (1BD only), RR, AKJ, VGF (1 BD only), BRV, BWV (1BD only), and BLT (1BD only). And this is at 5 months out too. We also have a small contract at BRV for the time being as Wilderness Lodge is actually our preferred resort. We will add to that later.

We are also in SoCal and in the process of buying SSR resale points to be used at Aulani and picking up last minute cancellations at VGC.
We are also in the process of buying resale BCV for our WDW visits.
Two home resorts work well for us - value points and where you want to stay.

 

[DVChris]

Yes! I did exactly this with my RR direct purchase. The September promotion was not better so we did well. Considering doing the same here.

If you already have the blue card with your direct RR purchase, then I suggest looking at resale, if you can wait the several months to complete the process. You can save thousands!

 

[ars13]

I assume you are using 2057 end date for OKW as opposed to 2042?

Yea, we used the 2057 end date.

Only thing to keep in mind is that SSR dues will likely climb now that refurbishments are completed.

darn! I didn't consider that! I thought they raised dues in anticipation of refurbishment to get capital... but then again they probably just raise dues all the time anyway. I figured both would go up 3% a year on average over the course of their contracts

 

[we"reofftoneverland]

First time buyer and poster here!

I am in a similar situation. Over the last three months I have been going back and forth between so many resorts. I was 100% committed to poly, then to CCV, but I ended up landing on SSR. Here’s why:

1 I am (fairly) confident that I can plan 7 months out and generally get a room that I want at a specific resort. I realized this once I saw some availability charts for Poly… sure maybe I won’t be staying beach club during festivals, or Wildernesses Lodge during Christmas, and forget about Animal Kingdom concierge, but on the off season and during the summer the 7th month window seems fine (I hope). So with this knowledge I decreased the importance of the home resort. I am differentiating between where I want to stay and where I want to own. And we are pretty flexible on where to stay.

2. SSR is cheaper, we can buy more points, AND their maintenance dues are significantly lower than OKW. The math I did for SSR was $177/point over 33 years (length of contract) is $5.36/point plus maintenance dues of $7.12 comes out to $12.48 a point.
When doing the same math for OKW I came to 12.99 - meaning I see OKW as actually more expensive over the course of their contracts because of their maintenance fees. Now maintenance fees will go up, but that’s impossible to predict and all resorts maintenance fees will go.

Now if RR had lower maintenance fees, not had the restriction on resale (in case we need to sell in the future), and better availability charts then that would have been a top contender.

I will actually be buying today so if anyone can talk me out of it or show me the error of my ways on SSR, please do!

The only thing I would caution is that maintenance fees do change, and dvc seems to be trying to level them out (except hhi and vbr). And then if you do not have a direct contract yet, I would do RIV because I would want my direct contract to be as long as possible, then buy SSR resale. Anyway, just my thoughts!

 

[DonMacGregor]

Yea, we used the 2057 end date.



darn! I didn't consider that! I thought they raised dues in anticipation of refurbishment to get capital... but then again they probably just raise dues all the time anyway. I figured both would go up 3% a year on average over the course of their contracts

Since the resorts are condominium associations, refurbishments/planned renovations should legally be included in the association reserve study and already incorporated into the existing dues under capital reserves. Capital reserves are built up incrementally over time in anticipation of capital expenditure and are spread out over a number of years prior to the expenditure. Only unforeseen repairs such as those resulting from hurricane damage will lead to an increase in dues (or a special assessment). I don't know enough about Florida condo law, and haven't been too highly motivated to wade into the SSR association filings to find out, but that is how reserve studies and capital reserves work.

 

[mlayton14]

Since the resorts are condominium associations, refurbishments/planned renovations should legally be included in the association reserve study and already incorporated into the existing dues under capital reserves. Capital reserves are built up incrementally over time in anticipation of capital expenditure and are spread out over a number of years prior to the expenditure. Only unforeseen repairs such as those resulting from hurricane damage will lead to an increase in dues (or a special assessment). I don't know enough about Florida condo law, and haven't been too highly motivated to wade into the SSR association filings to find out, but that is how reserve studies and capital reserves work.

If this is the case , than Boulder Ridge must be overflowing/exploding with cash in their reserves, any chance dues go down for this one ?