OKW 2042 - 2057 deed

I have my Notice of 2007 Special Meeting and I will just post what I construe to be very strong language of our obligations whether we want it or not.........

FURTHER RESOLVED: That for those Members of the Association who desire not to extend their Ownership Interest beyond January 31, 2042, they may SATISFY THEIR OBLIGATION TO PAY the special assessment by executing a deed (with the formalities required by Florida Law) conveying to DVD their Ownership Interest for the period from January 31, 2042 to January 31 2057; and

FURTHER RESOLVED: That the Association is hereby authorized to execute any amendments to the existing Condominium Documents to reflect and memorialize the extension of the Vacation Ownership Plan.

:confused3

Obligation to pay what? Im not buying anything?

Oh! I guess I am!
 
Notwithstanding what each POS states, I am curious about the language contained in everyone's actual contract/Purchase Agreement. In reviewing mine, item #2 (Ownership Interest Purchased) states that my ownership interest is subject to the Ground Lease and the last paragraph in item #4 (The Disney Vacation Club) states, "The term of the DVC ownership plan is concurrent with the term of the Ground Lease underlying the Condominium and will continue until January 31, 2042, which is the expiration date of the Ground Lease or unless the Ground Lease is sooner terminated in accordance with its own terms." Do newer contracts contain the extension clause?

We bought in '94. Unless I'm overlooking something, our contract doesn't have the extension clause either. It just has the expiration date.
 
We bought in '94. Unless I'm overlooking something, our contract doesn't have the extension clause either. It just has the expiration date.

After this Special Assessment, Im sure all that will change. We will all have the same language on our deeds and in our POS.

They are correcting all their past wrongs like magic:wizard:
 
You make some really good points. Since my original post that you responded to, we have been doing a lot of thinking and have decided not to extend. Just not worth it! Your calculations show just how much it is not worth it from a financial standpoint (for us the extension would only be about the financial advantage, if any).

We will not be around in 2042 or 2057 and we were planning to just sell our intertest in 5 to no more than 10 years anyway, and the additional investment outlay just would not make sense.

It will be extermeley iteresting to see just how many people do extend.

Andy

The problem is that you may not be able to sell without getting rid of the lien & taking the extension first. That is what I read on mousepad. I do hope this is incorrect.
 

It's not a threat, it is how they are moving forward with this and securing payment of the special assessment or executing the deed turning over 2042 to 2057 to DVD. As others have implied, do nothing and there's the lien on your ownership. It is at the end of the first Further Resolved paragraph.

I received the legal notice of the special meeting. Included in that notice are the resolutions to be voted upon - HOWEVER - until the vote has been taken (and there is no suspense regarding the outcome), no one is "moving forward" with anything and nothing has been done - or may be done - until the owners have been legally notified of the outcome of the meeting and what the next step may be. I have not been legally notified of any action other than the meeting itself at this point and I doubt that anyone else has either. Nothing in the resolution states that if I "do nothing and there's the lien on your ownership." The Resolution does NOT state that.

My point with all of this is that we do NOT know what will be offered or what form the extension rejection paperwork will take. Several have even suggested that the issues to be voted upon at the meeting are themselves illegal - just as some suggested over a year ago when the transfer rule was restated - and yet nothing has changed that either and the concerns expressed at that time and hardly mentioned anymore.

The purpose of quoting from the POS is to provide information about what we have all signed. I have read the POS documents a number of times - my documents are dogeared and have been highlighted over the years - but I am not an attorney and would rather allow others to provide expert interpretation of the legal language used.

With all of the uproar in this thread I still think it wise to wait until we have all of the facts about what will actually be done and how it will actually be presented to us. Many are speculating and presenting a worst case scenario NOT based on fact. Even the suggestion that this is "how they are moving forward with this and securing payment of the special assessment or executing the deed" is speculative unless YOU have some other correspondence than has been sent to most others. Merely quoting the legal notice of the meeting does not explain how the program will be administered.

You neglected to quote from the first page of the correspondence dated 8/24/2007. It states:

" ... Your Association will hold a special meeting on September 24, 2007 to consider the offer to extend your Membership, and if approved, you'll be mailed everything you need to accept or decline the extension. Look for more details in the mail in late September. "

It appears that some feel it important to try to stop the meeting based on their personal interpretation of the limited details thus far and that is their right. Several on this forum have provided quotes from the legal documents to assist members in making that decision - but I'd strongly suggest having legal counsel before initiating any action against DVC even though some have suggested that a phone call would halt any vote.

I've decided to wait until I get that correspondence to base any judgement about how declining the extension will affect me. If, at that time, my review of the facts causes me to feel that my rights are affected in any way, I will take appropriate action. The upcoming special meeting in no way harms my ability to utilize my ownership and until I see something that changes that I'm content to wait for the actual details of the proposed changes.

If you feel your rights have already been violated by the notice of the special meeting, by all means proceed with any legal action you deem appropriate ... and please post the results.
 
Thanks Doc, your explanation fits my feelings exactly. Why get so bent out of shape over something that no one knows for sure how it will play out. JMO
 
1) The Condominium runs concurrently with the Ground Lease. Thereby, by extending the Ground Lease, my ownership is automatically extended until 2057; and I have therefore been deeded a real property interest which I did not consent to. This is why the property interest from 2042-2057 needs to be deeded back to DVD.

2) As to the Association's authorization to execute amendments to the Condominium Documents to memorialize the extension; any such amendment cannot amend my Purchase Agreement/Contract which specfically terminates the Ground Lease in 2042. This will put my specific 1992 Contract and those newly amended Condo Docs in conflict. Section 15 of the Contract clearly sets forth that it cannot be modified or amended except by a writing signed by both PURCHASER and DVD, and that all provisions shall survive the closing.

3) As to this not being a done deal, the last sentence of the Notice clearly states that DVD intends to approve the resolutions on September 24. This is a done deal as announced in Jim Lewis's introductory letter which states our "unprecedented opportunity" and "Look for more details in the mail in late September". There are not many days left in September after the vote. Those envelopes are being stuffed as we post. It is always better to avoid a legal confrontation if possible. There is simply no need on the part of DVD to rush this process through until many of our questions have been addressed.
 
Just think, the suspense will be over in less than three weeks.

Otherwise, it is now Monday and DVC is open for business. Anyone with concerns can call DVC and ask to speak to someone in the legal department and ask all of their questions (or you can pay a lawyer to call them).

We look forward to hearing what you learn.
 
My point with all of this is that we do NOT know what will be offered or what form the extension rejection paperwork will take.
This is, by far, the most significant vote the condo association has ever taken. The fact that Disney hasn't told us how all this will work should be in itself cause for concern.

We do know Disney anticipates the needs for liens. That's an indication Disney anticipates people get stuck with something they didn't want. The other thing we know is the price - $25/point. There is no reasonable financial justification for such a price.

I disagree with the notion that people should just wait until after the vote to see what got voted in. If I were a member of OKW, I would want to ask my representatives what they are voting on, and would want to remind that them they have a duty to act in the members best interest. Isn't the time for such action before the vote, not after?

Is there any forum, any venue, any route to contact the representatives?

Note - I am not "bent out of shape." I'm expressing an opinion an a message board. Not being an owner at OKW, there isn't anything else I can do. If such a vote - with similar red flags and unknowns - should show up at one of my resorts, then I will try and address the issue with Disney.
 
This is, by far, the most significant vote the condo association has ever taken. The fact that Disney hasn't told us how all this will work should be in itself cause for concern.

We do know Disney anticipates the needs for liens. That's an indication Disney anticipates people get stuck with something they didn't want. The other thing we know is the price - $25/point. There is no reasonable financial justification for such a price. ...

I disagree and know that there have been many other more important votes taken over the years, and probably more to come. Disney has told us how this will all work - we just don't know the specifics yet - and has explained that more details will follow - here is a quote from the notification letter:

" ... Your Association will hold a special meeting on September 24, 2007 to consider the offer to extend your Membership, and if approved, you'll be mailed everything you need to accept or decline the extension. Look for more details in the mail in late September. "

I'll also suggest again that the lien possibility will not hinder a member's ability to use their membership until February 1, 2042 - but that is my personal speculation. I expect that a lien would also be an issue in the event of a sale of a contract. I do not expect that it would mean that a member will be "stuck with something they didn't want" - again, my personal opinion. There is certainly nothing in the letter I have received that indicates any punitive action would affect an owner's ability to use their membership. I also expect (again- personal opinion) that there will be an incentive available to reduce the $25 fee and that no owner will be forced to pay that amount at least prior to February 29, 2008. I'm still willing to wait until I've been notified of those details before taking any action that could affect my enjoyment of the program.

If any aspect of this decision will result in any expense to me or any loss of my ability to use my membership, I'll be at the front of the line to address the issue, but I'll also be shocked if that is needed.

...

Is there any forum, any venue, any route to contact the representatives?

No, there is no avenue to directly contact members of the either the Condominium Board or the Members Association. Concerned members can certainly write to DVC and express themselves if they wish or actually a letter to DVD may be more in order.

...Note - I am not "bent out of shape." I'm expressing an opinion an a message board. Not being an owner at OKW, there isn't anything else I can do. If such a vote - with similar red flags and unknowns - should show up at one of my resorts, then I will try and address the issue with Disney.

I have never used the phrase "bent out of shape" towards you or anyone else.
 
I disagree and know that there have been many other more important votes taken over the years,

Doc - I'm not trying to be argumentative here - but what votes in the past were more important that this one?

I expect that a lien would also be an issue in the event of a sale of a contract. I do not expect that it would mean that a member will be "stuck with something they didn't want" - again, my personal opinion.

A lien is an obligation to pay. It doesn't have to affect member usage. If somebody has to pay money for something - whether now or when they try to sell, how is that not "getting stuck with something they didn't want".

I also expect (again- personal opinion) that there will be an incentive available to reduce the $25 fee and that no owner will be forced to pay that amount at least prior to February 29, 2008.

You seem to be open to the possibility that people will be forced to pay - you just aren't sure how much. I'd argue that nobody should be forced to pay for an extension they don't want. I'd also argue that a representative acting in the interest of members shouldn't agree to a price that is way above something that makes financial sense. What's the point of a vote on a $25 vote if the intended price is $15?

If any aspect of this decision will result in any expense to me or any loss of my ability to use my membership, I'll be at the front of the line to address the issue, but I'll also be shocked if that is needed.

Does having to pay for a reserve fund that will be spent from 2042-2057 count as "result in any expense"?

I have never used the phrase "bent out of shape" towards you or anyone else.
I know - my bad. I didn't mack it clear I was changing gears and addressing another post.

Note - I know we are going in circles here, so feel free to ignore most of this post. But I am curious about past votes you feel were more important.
 
Okay, so I have no idea what this is going to mean to our ownership, and I'll let you more legal minds hash that part out, but my question has to do with our ability to pass on our ownership via a will. If we opt out of the extension, will that mean the membership ends with us and can't be passed on? I would think that since we will have signed over the extension to DVD, it might mean the contradt ends with us unless we have our children listed as full owners right from the start.

Any thoughts?
 
It is my understanding the deed (which is in your name) can definitely be left in your will to your heirs. I do not think the extension of years will effect that at all. It would be theirs until 2042.
 
I'll also suggest again that the lien possibility will not hinder a member's ability to use their membership until February 1, 2042 - but that is my personal speculation.

Under item #28 (Non-Payment of Assessment) in the Condominium Rules and Regulations, it states, "Any owners who are delinquent in payment of their assessments may be denied access and occupancy of a Vacation Home in accordance with Section 721.13(6), Florida Statutes, until all delinquent assessments are paid in full." As of 2/29/08, the special assessment will be delinquent. Disney is not going to wait until 2042 to collect it.
 
It is my understanding the deed (which is in your name) can definitely be left in your will to your heirs. I do not think the extension of years will effect that at all. It would be theirs until 2042.

True, but of what value? I'm feeling more and more like we will just sell when we are no longer making reservations for ourselves. I sure don't want to saddle my offspring with the costs that could be pretty exhorbitant by then. Besides, they will be grandparents by then, and mght not be interested either.
 
Right, but your options should not change with the refusing of the contract extension option.

Whether you want to sell it outright or pass it on to your heirs, it should be your decision through 2042.
 
Right, but your options should not change with the refusing of the contract extension option.

Whether you want to sell it outright or pass it on to your heirs, it should be your decision through 2042.

But since I am in essence "giving back" the end part of my contract to DVD, does that effect willing it on?
 
No because you will be refusing the offer to extend. You will keep your original purchase which was till 2042. Don't think I'll be going to WDW that long even, but hope the family does enjoy till then at least. :)
 
No because you will be refusing the offer to extend. You will keep your original purchase which was till 2042. Don't think I'll be going to WDW that long even, but hope the family does enjoy till then at least. :)

Yeah, I don't expect to even be around then, so I know what you mean!
 
Do you think that part of the reason DVC is offering the OKW extension is because DVC might be sitting on a lot of OKW ROFR points in their inventory which they could open up to new sales with a new 50 year contract term? That would give it the same ending date as AKV.

Also, and I'm sorry if this has already been answered, or if this is a stupid question, but will there be a different MF structure for OKW now based upon the potential for two different contract end dates?

I'm assuming those that choose NOT to extend will not want to be obligated to pay MFs earmarked for maintence beyond 2042, but I don't know enough about how current MFs are calculated and assessed for future maintenence.

How far in advance are MFs projected, assessed and ultimately paid and collected?

While we don't own at OKW, we may ultimately face these decisions if offered at VWL & BWV.
 

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