Okay are these MUST HAVES for you?

[BibbidyBobbidyBoo]

What year is his suburban. all the 2002 -2006 mine being 2004 have the seven pin connector. All it needs is the brake controler and the quick connect harness. It plugs into the panel under the drivers dash and then plugs into the back of the brake controller. Very easy to do.

It's a 2000 and he said it doesn't have the plug under the dash and isn't pre-wired for brakes like mine is. We aren't using his vehicle anyway but this just CEMENTS the fact we're not using his vehicle. LOL

holy macaroni clkelley! My eyes glazed over after a bit (it's the female in me I'm sure) but DH was all like yep yep nodding his head as he read your awesome instructions. LOL It seems HE totally understood it all! LOL Now I gotta talk him into doing all that... cause it sure would be nice to charge it up and have that fridge cooling off. It's not going to be easy since we plan on BRINGING all our food so we can get it cheaper here (much cheaper than going to the grocery store there- plus all our meat is bought in bulk so bringing our own instead of buying there will save us a bunch) and that means it will have to be in coolers AND THEN when we get there- wait wait wait for the fridge to cool down once we hookup. Meanwhile we'll have coolers all in there just in the way as we're getting all set up once at the site. I'm not fond of that idea (yes we can put the coolers outside but the ice will melt faster since it will be almost June in florida LOL) And the ice costs at FW doesn't it? So there's and extra cost to refill back with ice while the stupid fridge cools off. that thing could be totally cold by the time we got there driving over a day. Yanno? I gotta talk him into this. LOL (it wouldn't just be helpful this trip but ALL our camping trips!)

It sounds like a lot of work though (atleast to my untrained eye! LOL) because I don't think my vehicle has the battery charger wire routed to the engine compartment- it doesn't even have the 7-way- he's having to put that on! We were fortunate it was pre-wired for the brakes... but I don't think it's already wired for the battery charger. wahhhh

 

[LarryJ]

It's a 2000 and he said it doesn't have the plug under the dash and isn't pre-wired for brakes like mine is. We aren't using his vehicle anyway but this just CEMENTS the fact we're not using his vehicle. LOL

holy macaroni clkelley! My eyes glazed over after a bit (it's the female in me I'm sure) but DH was all like yep yep nodding his head as he read your awesome instructions. LOL It seems HE totally understood it all! LOL Now I gotta talk him into doing all that... cause it sure would be nice to charge it up and have that fridge cooling off. It's not going to be easy since we plan on BRINGING all our food so we can get it cheaper here (much cheaper than going to the grocery store there- plus all our meat is bought in bulk so bringing our own instead of buying there will save us a bunch) and that means it will have to be in coolers AND THEN when we get there- wait wait wait for the fridge to cool down once we hookup. Meanwhile we'll have coolers all in there just in the way as we're getting all set up once at the site. I'm not fond of that idea (yes we can put the coolers outside but the ice will melt faster since it will be almost June in florida LOL) And the ice costs at FW doesn't it? So there's and extra cost to refill back with ice while the stupid fridge cools off. that thing could be totally cold by the time we got there driving over a day. Yanno? I gotta talk him into this. LOL (it wouldn't just be helpful this trip but ALL our camping trips!)

It sounds like a lot of work though (atleast to my untrained eye! LOL) because I don't think my vehicle has the battery charger wire routed to the engine compartment- it doesn't even have the 7-way- he's having to put that on! We were fortunate it was pre-wired for the brakes... but I don't think it's already wired for the battery charger. wahhhh

Hmmm, I just got around to reading this and boy I have more questions and concerns than I can count. You can't just throw on a brake controller and call it good they need some adjusting and knowledge in how to use them. I'm also at a loss on why as it seems you haven't been using a brake controller from what I'm reading when using DH Burb. Not even mentioned here is how your Expy is set up as far as towing is concerned. A 27' TT should require a 2" receiver on the tow vehicle along with a good Weight Distributing hitch and some sort of sway control. A weight distributing hitch is much more than just a ball that the trailer hooks up to and even that needs adjusting when setting up and matching a particular trailer to a tow vehicle. Typically a simple 4 pin connector is for towing vehicles that don't require brakes (usually lighter than 2 to 4 thousand lbs state dependent) or are surge brake type vehicles like a boat trailer/U-Haul and the receiver is not rated high enough for a full sized TT nor does the tow vehicle have the proper tow package that often includes different rear axle ratios and extra cooling for the transmission. It also sounds like you will be carrying a lot of cargo not only in the tow vehicle but the trailer and you have to consider weights and the weight ratings of the axles on both the trailer and the TV.

Just the fact that your Expy needs something in the mirrors department is another clue that it wasn't set up at the factory to be towing a travel trailer.

I don't want to sound mean, but it seems like you might be cobbling something here (mirrors, brake controller) to a vehicle that might not be set up to do what you want. The fact that there is a wire in the driver's side area for a brake controller is just from a cost standpoint so vehicles that have the extra items to tow have the same wiring harnesses. Also some vehicles need extra relays, etc. for things like the brake controller circuit to be functional. The spot for such a relay is there, but the relay to make it functional is not added on vehicles that aren't set up to tow things that need this brake circuit. I know everyone here is trying to help, but I just see more questions in my mind than answers and I don't have many answers because of all the questions I have and I'm not sure how long it might take to sort this out properly with what seems like the short time frame you are dealing with.

Sorry for the negative post, but when I read this thread I couldn't just ignore it from a safety standpoint.

Larry

 

[papopup]

Hmmm, I just got around to reading this and boy I have more questions and concerns than I can count. You can't just throw on a brake controller and call it good they need some adjusting and knowledge in how to use them. I'm also at a loss on why as it seems you haven't been using a brake controller from what I'm reading when using DH Burb. Not even mentioned here is how your Expy is set up as far as towing is concerned. A 27' TT should require a 2" receiver on the tow vehicle along with a good Weight Distributing hitch and some sort of sway control. A weight distributing hitch is much more than just a ball that the trailer hooks up to and even that needs adjusting when setting up and matching a particular trailer to a tow vehicle. Typically a simple 4 pin connector is for towing vehicles that don't require brakes (usually lighter than 2 to 4 thousand lbs state dependent) or are surge brake type vehicles like a boat trailer/U-Haul and the receiver is not rated high enough for a full sized TT nor does the tow vehicle have the proper tow package that often includes different rear axle ratios and extra cooling for the transmission. It also sounds like you will be carrying a lot of cargo not only in the tow vehicle but the trailer and you have to consider weights and the weight ratings of the axles on both the trailer and the TV.

Just the fact that your Expy needs something in the mirrors department is another clue that it wasn't set up at the factory to be towing a travel trailer.

I don't want to sound mean, but it seems like you might be cobbling something here (mirrors, brake controller) to a vehicle that might not be set up to do what you want. The fact that there is a wire in the driver's side area for a brake controller is just from a cost standpoint so vehicles that have the extra items to tow have the same wiring harnesses. Also some vehicles need extra relays, etc. for things like the brake controller circuit to be functional. The spot for such a relay is there, but the relay to make it functional is not added on vehicles that aren't set up to tow things that need this brake circuit. I know everyone here is trying to help, but I just see more questions in my mind than answers and I don't have many answers because of all the questions I have and I'm not sure how long it might take to sort this out properly with what seems like the short time frame you are dealing with.

Sorry for the negative post, but when I read this thread I couldn't just ignore it from a safety standpoint.

Larry

Exactly ! Take your Expy to a Ford dealer along with your Trailer info. and find out if you can tow your TT with your Expy.

 

[SCCamper]

Also some vehicles need extra relays, etc. for things like the brake controller circuit to be functional. The spot for such a relay is there, but the relay to make it functional is not added on vehicles that aren't set up to tow things that need this brake circuit. Larry

Check your vehicle's owner's manual. It should have a section about towing. I know when I had my F-150, I had to install the relay myself. It came with the truck when I bought it, it just wasn't installed. In the owner's manual, it showed where to plug in the relay. Takes about 30 seconds. BTW...mirrors and brake controller will be in the mail by Tuesday. Good luck.

 

[clkelley]

It's a 2000 and he said it doesn't have the plug under the dash and isn't pre-wired for brakes like mine is. We aren't using his vehicle anyway but this just CEMENTS the fact we're not using his vehicle. LOL

holy macaroni clkelley! My eyes glazed over after a bit (it's the female in me I'm sure) but DH was all like yep yep nodding his head as he read your awesome instructions. LOL It seems HE totally understood it all! LOL Now I gotta talk him into doing all that... cause it sure would be nice to charge it up and have that fridge cooling off. It's not going to be easy since we plan on BRINGING all our food so we can get it cheaper here (much cheaper than going to the grocery store there- plus all our meat is bought in bulk so bringing our own instead of buying there will save us a bunch) and that means it will have to be in coolers AND THEN when we get there- wait wait wait for the fridge to cool down once we hookup. Meanwhile we'll have coolers all in there just in the way as we're getting all set up once at the site. I'm not fond of that idea (yes we can put the coolers outside but the ice will melt faster since it will be almost June in florida LOL) And the ice costs at FW doesn't it? So there's and extra cost to refill back with ice while the stupid fridge cools off. that thing could be totally cold by the time we got there driving over a day. Yanno? I gotta talk him into this. LOL (it wouldn't just be helpful this trip but ALL our camping trips!)

It sounds like a lot of work though (atleast to my untrained eye! LOL) because I don't think my vehicle has the battery charger wire routed to the engine compartment- it doesn't even have the 7-way- he's having to put that on! We were fortunate it was pre-wired for the brakes... but I don't think it's already wired for the battery charger. wahhhh

Dad and myself did it in about 3 hours.

 

[BibbidyBobbidyBoo]

Hmmm, I just got around to reading this and boy I have more questions and concerns than I can count. You can't just throw on a brake controller and call it good they need some adjusting and knowledge in how to use them. I'm also at a loss on why as it seems you haven't been using a brake controller from what I'm reading when using DH Burb. Not even mentioned here is how your Expy is set up as far as towing is concerned. A 27' TT should require a 2" receiver on the tow vehicle along with a good Weight Distributing hitch and some sort of sway control. A weight distributing hitch is much more than just a ball that the trailer hooks up to and even that needs adjusting when setting up and matching a particular trailer to a tow vehicle. Typically a simple 4 pin connector is for towing vehicles that don't require brakes (usually lighter than 2 to 4 thousand lbs state dependent) or are surge brake type vehicles like a boat trailer/U-Haul and the receiver is not rated high enough for a full sized TT nor does the tow vehicle have the proper tow package that often includes different rear axle ratios and extra cooling for the transmission. It also sounds like you will be carrying a lot of cargo not only in the tow vehicle but the trailer and you have to consider weights and the weight ratings of the axles on both the trailer and the TV.

Just the fact that your Expy needs something in the mirrors department is another clue that it wasn't set up at the factory to be towing a travel trailer.

I don't want to sound mean, but it seems like you might be cobbling something here (mirrors, brake controller) to a vehicle that might not be set up to do what you want. The fact that there is a wire in the driver's side area for a brake controller is just from a cost standpoint so vehicles that have the extra items to tow have the same wiring harnesses. Also some vehicles need extra relays, etc. for things like the brake controller circuit to be functional. The spot for such a relay is there, but the relay to make it functional is not added on vehicles that aren't set up to tow things that need this brake circuit. I know everyone here is trying to help, but I just see more questions in my mind than answers and I don't have many answers because of all the questions I have and I'm not sure how long it might take to sort this out properly with what seems like the short time frame you are dealing with.

Sorry for the negative post, but when I read this thread I couldn't just ignore it from a safety standpoint.

Larry

That's okay Larry- I understand!
Just keep in mind you're seeing posts from the WOMAN- not the man of the family. LOL
Yes DH knows all that stuff- I don't, but he does. For instance he mentioned to me last night that it wasn't just plug in the brake controller,slap on the 7 pin connecting the brake controller- that he has to adjust the brakes and tried to explain to me what that means but I think he saw my "glazed eyes look" and didn't explain it fully. That often happens when he's trying to explain all this car stuff- he's the one that deals with that stuff. LOL

We'd already checked into whether my vehicle COULD tow the trailer before we even bought it years ago... we just hadn't USED my vehicle in the past (or actualy half the time we'd take his vehicle to tow the trailer and I'd tow the boat since it was easier for me. I was afraid to tow the trailer myself so that's what we'd usually do if we went camping somewhere. Obviously this time going to WDW we're not taking both vehicles and not taking the boat)

As for the mirrors- not sure what you mean. Even his surburban wasn't "set up" to just automatically see all around the 8ft wide trailer- he just didn't make it a big deal on shorter trips to go camping and only mentioned wanting to see around it better for such a long tow all the way to Florida. He wanted the extended mirrors whether we took my vehicle or his. And from the sounds of it on this thread it doesn't seem like everyone else's just automatically comes with extended mirrors on their vehicle- they ADD those if they are towing (various kinds- clip ons/etc.) So that part of your post confuses me. It sounds like you're saying since the vehicle didn't come with extended mirrors that it's not meant for towing? I assure you I wouldn't be trying to tow all the way to Florida without already knowing it can pull it. I wouldn't have bought the vehicle in the first place if it wasn't capable of doing so.

As for the cargo- family of 5 and about 5 suitcases plus maybe a cooler (in the vehicle) -not exactly a "crowded" amount in my vehicle. I got lots of room in my Expedition which was one of the many reasons I prefer to use it. (not to mention it's the more reliable vehicle) DH's is older, not as reliable for long trips, stinks (LOL yes stinks like grease and oil!), and the seating is such that we'd have to leave the 3rd row bench seat up for the 3rd child and then couldn't put any luggage in it whatsoever. In my vehicle it can be more like a "truck" with the 3rd seat down to hold the luggage- which I prefer for some unexplainable reason. LOL We could certainly put all the luggage in the trailer but I just don't wanna. I don't know why. LOL But I also want to have the room for a cooler to take snacks, kids to have dvd player to watch movies on the long drive etc. Our vehicle with the tow pkg that is on it has a maximum GCWR of 6576 kg or 14500lbs and trailer weight range of 0-8950lbs. DH's vehicle isn't even rated as high as mine and we've always used his vehicle to tow the trailer. The trailer empty weight is 6500 and no we don't add 2000lbs in cargo- although this time we will be putting more in there than usual shorter trips all we'll have in there is packed in the understorage: fold chairs, couple coolers with food, silverware, paper plates/napkins, toilet paper and the bikes. It won't come near to adding 2000lbs to the trailer We're pretty minimalistic when we camp- you won't be seeing our site all fancied up. ('m not fond of all the unpacking and packing back up when we leave- so I only take what we NEED and will use during the trip, nothing extra LOL) Maybe when we're older and don't have to take a bunch of kids with us I'll bring extra decorations and stuff. LOL The luggage will be in my vehicle because that's the way I prefer it.

Dh already checked and the wiring for the brake goes all the way to the 4 pin connector and stops there (not connected to it)- so it's not just the plug under the dash... it's pre-wired all the way. The 4 pin is factory so like someone else said- it is prewired like I'd read online that it should be for a 2004 Expedition but just wasn't utilized. My tow hitch is exactly the same tow package DH had put on his suburban when we bought his and he wouldn't be driving it if it was unsafe. Again I totally understand your concern- just remember you're reading posts from the wife who is unknowledgable about this stuff... so I sound stupid and like i don't know stuff (cause I don't) so i can understand that making you concerned. I truly do. DH is the mechanic in the family- not me. So I'm totally clueless about this stuff.


(ps. in looking at the vehicle's manual again- I see it says if you have the standard equipment for trailer towing on this vehicle then it's equipped with an integrated trailer hitch and class 1 (4-pin) trailer electrical connector. If you have the optional trailer tow package it includes heavy duty trailer tow WIRING for both a class 1 4pin and IV 7 pin trailer connections (which is what DH realized we had upon examining it) and then includes info about how under the instrument panel an electrical conector is provided for a customer supplied aftermarket electronic brake controller- then mentions if you are installing a customer supplied (customer supplied in this case being medic/Shannnon supplied ) electronic brake controller you can purchase the instructions and an electrical jumper harness from Ford.
So now I gotta ask DH if he knows what the electrical jumper harness is. I'm sure he does. LOL

As for why we hadn't been using a brake controller on DH's vehicle when DH used it to tow the trailer in the past- well, you'd have to ask him that. I'm just now finding that out! Apparently he's bullheaded and thinking he didn't need it and man enough to drive without it since he didn't have it. Which I think was stupid and I'm mad at him for never telling me that! (and when I got mad he was all like it has surge brakes and you saw I was fine driving it like that blah blah blah. ugh! I'm with you on that! No clue why he was risking things like that!)

I do appreciate your concern- truly I do!

Check your vehicle's owner's manual. It should have a section about towing. I know when I had my F-150, I had to install the relay myself. It came with the truck when I bought it, it just wasn't installed. In the owner's manual, it showed where to plug in the relay. Takes about 30 seconds. BTW...mirrors and brake controller will be in the mail by Tuesday. Good luck.

Yes it does- see above.
Our owners manual doesn't come with the instructions but it does mention purchasing the instructions from Ford. They always want more money for everything. LOL

THANKS SO MUCH ------- you guys are awesome!

 

[Thumper_ehhhhh]

http://www.tekonsha.com/product/details.asp?ProdID=3025-P

Thats the connector for the prodigy brake controler for the 2000 Suburban. You would be better of towing with the Suburban that the Expy mainly with wheel base. Im not knocking the expy but if i had both in the driveway I would always choose the longer wheel base. JMO

 

[LarryJ]

If it comes with the HD tow package with a 7pin connector there then drivetrain wise you should have the necessary options. Originally I understood you only had a 4pin connector and that along with non towing type mirrors implied to me that it might not be setup for travel trailer towing.

I was really surprised that you were looking to "borrow" a brake controller and if you haven't been using one I don't know what to say and now I would question how well your trailer brakes actually work. Brake controllers can be funny animals and it usually takes some time to get things like gain, etc. adjusted and the same goes with transferring an existing weight distributing hitch and sway system from one vehicle to another and again can take several short road trips and adjustments to get it working properly.

If you never weighed either the trailer or the Expy(fully loaded with passengers and fuel/cargo like you plan to take to WDW) you might be surprised as most are when they get real numbers. A trailer with an empty wt of 6500lbs and a max wt with your crew IMHO will exceed 8,000 lbs. That means you could have tongue wts near or over 1,000lbs. This could overload either your tires or the rear axle on you Expy. Yea, the Expy with the 5.4 has a max towing capacity of 8950, but that is for a stripped down version, like 5 gal of fuel and a single 150lb passenger. Every option, more than 5gal of fuel, passengers, and cargo reduce that max towing capacity lb for lb. With only 1485 max payload capacity for a 2WD Eddie Bauer, full fuel, 5 passengers, cargo, and possibly a 1,000 lb tongue wt might be exceeding some very important ratings, but until you actually weigh it you won't know.

With the shorter WB in the Expy having your tongue wt. where it should be, a properly adjusted WDH and sway system are much more critical than with the longer WB Burb.

I guess my only real recommendation is not to tow this combo from Texas to WDW until you are absolutely sure and comfortable that you have all your ducks in a row with the first getting things weighed.

I'm probably being a little overly cautious here, but when your talking about a family with children towing you in my book can't be overly cautious.

Larry

 

[BibbidyBobbidyBoo]

If it comes with the HD tow package with a 7pin connector there then drivetrain wise you should have the necessary options. Originally I understood you only had a 4pin connector and that along with non towing type mirrors implied to me that it might not be setup for travel trailer towing.

I was really surprised that you were looking to "borrow" a brake controller and if you haven't been using one I don't know what to say and now I would question how well your trailer brakes actually work. Brake controllers can be funny animals and it usually takes some time to get things like gain, etc. adjusted and the same goes with transferring an existing weight distributing hitch and sway system from one vehicle to another and again can take several short road trips and adjustments to get it working properly.

If you never weighed either the trailer or the Expy(fully loaded with passengers and fuel/cargo like you plan to take to WDW) you might be surprised as most are when they get real numbers. A trailer with an empty wt of 6500lbs and a max wt with your crew IMHO will exceed 8,000 lbs. That means you could have tongue wts near or over 1,000lbs. This could overload either your tires or the rear axle on you Expy. Yea, the Expy with the 5.4 has a max towing capacity of 8950, but that is for a stripped down version, like 5 gal of fuel and a single 150lb passenger. Every option, more than 5gal of fuel, passengers, and cargo reduce that max towing capacity lb for lb. With only 1485 max payload capacity for a 2WD Eddie Bauer, full fuel, 5 passengers, cargo, and possibly a 1,000 lb tongue wt might be exceeding some very important ratings, but until you actually weigh it you won't know.

With the shorter WB in the Expy having your tongue wt. where it should be, a properly adjusted WDH and sway system are much more critical than with the longer WB Burb.

I guess my only real recommendation is not to tow this combo from Texas to WDW until you are absolutely sure and comfortable that you have all your ducks in a row with the first getting things weighed.

I'm probably being a little overly cautious here, but when your talking about a family with children towing you in my book can't be overly cautious.

Larry

Hi Larry!
Let me try to explain some things- I'm sorry if it's coming off confusing but like I said- I'M not the one that knows all this stuff, DH is. LOL

First off- it does have the 4 pin but is wired for the 7 pin- which is what we found out upon trying to figure out how to change it to a 7 pin. It does have the optional tow pkg- we know that.. but we'd never towed the trailer with my vehicle (explained already above- it being MY vehicle and ME not wanting to tow the trailer but preferred to be the one towing the boat in the past) so I hadn't paid attention to what pin I had/how it was wired/etc. in the past because I didn't need the 7way since I wasn't towing the trailer with my vehicle.

2nd thing- still confused why you keep mentioning "with having nontowing type mirrors". What do you mean? Most vehicles/trucks do not come equipped wtih extended mirrors like that. Most people buy clip ons/etc. as is witnessed in this thread. So I don't know why you keep mentionig that. I do have truck sized windows. I'm not sure if you have ever seen an expedition before but my mirrors are bigger and stick out further than my husband's Surburban mirrors do! LOL

Yes we were VERY FORTUNATE to have medic offer his brake controller to us- but we would have to buy those if they didn't offer them. Do you think it's odd that not every vehicle that tows a trailer doesn't already have that in the vehicle from the factory? I wouldn't think that was so odd.
As for if the brake trailers work great- well we'll have to see on that won't we. I suppose DH will know when he's adjusting the brakes or whatever he was saying he had to do and we'll deal with that as it comes. I'm with you on the shock that he wasn't using brakes before- I had no idea! His vehicle has a 7 pin and I assumed brakes worked using that- I did not KNOW that it also needed a brake controller and all that stuff. I don't know that kind of stuff. But I'm quite sure he'll do however many trips he needs to do to get it working right because he would not waste his time getting this all hooked up and then not make sure they worked right!

I think you misread the weights I stated. my total tow weight with both trailer and vehicle/cargo is NOT 8,000 lbs. Total weight with vehicle and cargo is 14500lbs! My vehicle actually has a higher GCWR than my DH's and I have the better tow pkg on mine (including prewired for brake controllers when his isn't) so I'm not understanding the extreme concern- should be safer with my vehicle than his (and we've used his many times to tow the trailer) and if we can pull it with his without problems, we should be able to pull it with mine with no problems.

I'm lost when you use abbreviations (WB/WDH) but my vehicle isn't shorter than his. It's not the short expedition- it's the longer one. Which is why I said previously that it's like a truck in the back when the 3rd row is folded down. Even with the seat up I have more room in the back of my vehicle behind 3rd row than DH does with his surburban.

I totally appreciate your concern and your advice- I do. But I have the same concerns- which is why I'm trying to use the vehicle that is safer to use for such a long trip (for a variety of reasons) AS WELL AS adding the things to make it even safer- such as the brake controller/etc. so the trailer brakes can be used. (and btw- DH won't be towing the trailer with his vehicle in the future- unless he does the same with his vehicle and gets the brakes working for the trailer on his vehicle too!)

 

[LarryJ]

I'm no expert in all the flavors of Expys out there and it was not having a 7pin connector along with apparantly inadequate towing mirrors together made me say what I did and almost all trucks with there top towing packages have the expanding or extended mirrors. I'm currently sitting in the Artillery Ridge CG in Gettysburg and out of the 10 or so trucks I see not one has extra strap on mirrors. The lack of proper mirrors for towing was only one of several things that caught my eye and you can fairly easily get around that. You do realize there appears to be two "tow packages" for the Expy with two distinct tow ratings. One from what I understand is a 6,000lb tow package that has the 4 pin connector and the higher 8900 lb package is called the "HD tow package" and has both a 4 pin and 7 pin connector from the factory. It would make sense cost wise that both would have the wiring for both packages, but the key is what trailer connectors came as OEM equipment and if I'm reading your posts it appears you might have the lighter tow package. Is there a sticker on the receiver that gives weights.

This is for a 2005 Expy as reported in HERE by got2camp and you can see there are definite differences in the drivetrain items and cooling systems and it seems to be based on whether the Expy came from the factory with just the 4pin like you apparantly have or the dual 7/4pin combination wire harness connector.

These specs are for '05 model year.
Standard Tow Package: Frame-mounted Class III hitch receiver, 6000lb capacity; 4-wire harness and 4 pin connector; Auxiliary transmission oil cooler (14-plate); Heavy-duty flasher; Radiator with 1.02-inch core thickness.
Heavy Duty Tow Package: Frame-mounted Class IV hitch receiver, 8900lb weight-distributing capacity; 7-wire harness and 7/4 pin combination wire harness connector; Auxiliary transmission oil cooler (22-plate); Heavy-duty flasher; Electronic trailer-brake wiring kit; Radiator with 1.42-inch core thickness.

If I'm reading the above correctly there were two optional tow packages for the Expy, one is the standard 6K with a four pin connecter and for the HD tow package you should have something that looks like what is in THIS LINK.

Also it seems that the Expy's might have come with two different rear axle ratios one is a 3.55 and the other is the 3.73.

Until recently no vehicles came with brake controllers since there were many options out there and from a cost standpoint why would a manufacturer put something in there from both a cost standpoint not to mention having to cover issues with it from a warranty standpoint like setup and making sure it's doing it's job. I would guess the majority of boat and utility trailers have surge brakes on them so the manufacturers do provide the ability to add aftermarket brake controllers if the customer needs that function.

I'm starting to do what I said I would not and that is using this forum to get too far into towing discussions since this forum has a smaller number of members with towing experience with a particular vehicle just like me talking about an Expedition here that I have no experience with. IMHO other forums such as RV.NET just to name one are more appropriate than this one, but even those can get some wild opinions. You see a lot of times where someone questions a towing combination and gets beat up by owners with similiar combos and a lot of times these folks are defending what they have since to do otherwise means they either made a mistake or are in the margins towing and for me towing with marginal setups is just not in my book. Again not to be mean or too negative, but this is sort of like your stance that since you towed it with the Burb your Expy is a much more capable SUV. It sounds like the Burb should have never tried to tow that trailer since it wasn't even set up with a proper tow package and brake controller. The Burb with IIRC 130" WB is a much more "stable" tow vehicle than what I believe is your 119" WB Expy, especially for longer and heavier trailers and yours sure doesn't sound like a "lite weight" trailer. My trailer is 31' 2" with a dry wt of 5,000 and a max wt of 7600 and I tow it with a 138" WB van using a 1200/12,000 Equal-i-zer weight distributing hitch (WDH). You only get one shot if you get into an emergency situation and that's not where you want to be in the margins. I got beat up when folks here took my stance on this as saying they knew nothing about towing and that wasn't what I was trying to say and I might again get raked over the coals for revisiting this, but when I saw the need of getting a brake controller for a trailer your size just made my lower jaw hit the floor. My thoughts are towing something that heavy w/o functioning trailer brakes is simply dangerous and not safe and I really couldn't stay out of this w/o saying something and now I'm a lot deeper into this than I intended to get. This is why I gave the somewhat neblious recommendation in my last post and can't think of anything else to add to help you out than what was in my last post.

Larry

 

[ftwildernessguy]

My Ford F150 WITH THE TOW PACKAGE did NOT come with extended mirrors, nor does any F150 as far as I know. I have ONLY seen the factory extended mirrors on F250's and above. There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with the mirror extensions, which I have, and clearly is not an indication that the vehicle does not have a tow package.

 

[BibbidyBobbidyBoo]

My Ford F150 WITH THE TOW PACKAGE did NOT come with extended mirrors, nor does any F150 as far as I know. I have ONLY seen the factory extended mirrors on F250's and above. There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with the mirror extensions, which I have, and clearly is not an indication that the vehicle does not have a tow package.

Thanks- that's what I thought!

Larry- hey I'm to totally fine with you giving me info and advice- I have no problem with it whatsoever! I only responded the way I did because I don't want you to be all worried and concerned like a lot. Yanno?
LOL
First off- DH just checked because it was bugging me- the trailer even SAYS lite on the side in big huge letters and then you said your bigger one weighs more? So I made him check for sure.He was confused- the tow capacity on his surburban was 6500- the trailer is 4700.

As for this:
Heavy Duty Tow Package: Frame-mounted Class IV hitch receiver, 8900lb weight-distributing capacity; 7-wire harness and 7/4 pin combination wire harness connector; Auxiliary transmission oil cooler (22-plate); Heavy-duty flasher; Electronic trailer-brake wiring kit; Radiator with 1.42-inch core thickness.
We have every single thing on this except that the 7 pin CONNECTOR was not put on. the wires going to the 4-pin are there and the extra ones including the wiring for the brakes just stop right before the 4pin connector. It's like they could have put both (or could put the 7pin) but didn't. Go figure.

I'm still confused on the mirrors. I do have the big long mirrors -bigger than his surburban's which he's used to tow before just fine- he just PREFERS to have them extended even more. He said he doesn't want any blind spots at all when changing lanes. I've never seen trucks (and I live in Truck country- Texas! LOL) that have extended mirrors already on them at the car lots to purchase them that way- ever.

Anyway, like I said- I understand your concern- especially in just reading MY posts and not like talking to my DH or knowing him to know that he knows what he's doing. He just chose to ignore the brakes issue and not tell me about it- it's NOT that he doesn't know how to tow, doesn't know what he needs, etc- he just didn't want to bother apparently -thinking he's all fine without it for shorter trips....... longer trip he wanted the brakes. That's just him but trust me he knows all about what to do and what it SHOULD have and what SHOULD be used- whether he chooses to do that or not is another thing. But now that I know and learning things from you guys, he won't be able to get away with that anymore. LOL (he's been towing stuff most of his life btw- and I don't mean just trailers or boats- so that might be why he's got an ego about what he can handle like without brakes/etc. yanno? which isn't good- I'll give you that! I agree with you!)

My thoughts are towing something that heavy w/o functioning trailer brakes is simply dangerous and not safe

I agree with this! Why do you think once I found out I wasn't hooked up completely to use the brakes that I immediately sought to figure out what we need (while DH was at work btw -which is why I came off as so unknowledgeable about it) and was offered the brake controller. If your jaw hit the floor because he's towed it with the surburban without a brake controller in the past- well join my club! I did the same thing when I found out! But as for my vehicle- I don't think all vehicles come with the brake controller itself. Prewired for it yes- just like mine is- but actually HAVE it already...... no. So not having one on my vehicle, before towing with it, and talking about getting it put on so the brakes would work- should make you sigh in relief, not make your jaw drop. KWIM? So I'm not sure what you mean about that.

And just in defense of my husband (although he was completely wrong about not using brakes in the past!) -I just want to say that about like the weight of the trailer and all that- he was working off memory instead of really checking and that is because when we bought the trailer we made sure his truck at that time could pull it. Then when I bought my vehicle in 2004 (almost 5yrs ago- he's getting older and his memory isn't that great! LOL) we made sure before buying it that it absolutely COULD tow the trailer (although ofcourse he didn't mention needing to hook up the brakes and until now we've never towed the trailer with my vehicle anyway) and then when he purchased his vehicle he made sure it would tow it also (again, ignoring the brakes part apparently -not by ignorance but by just thinking it wasn't necessary and yes he was wrong in that). Just in case him telling me the wrong weight yesterday makes him look stupid- or like he doesn't know a thing about towing/etc. It wasn't that- he was just going by memory from many years ago. He remembered they both for sure could tow it- but remembered the lbs of the trailer wrong. I really can't blame him for that- no one has asked him how much the trailer weighs in all these years so he guessed wrong. LOL

On another note...... he got the 7way connector hooked up and in place of the 4 way on my vehicle and the connector thing that hooks the brake controller to the underside of my dash (to connect once we get the brake controller) and checked everything on the trailer- had to buy and replace the toilet valve and a connector to one of the waterlines under the sink. we don't call him "mr fixit" around here for nothing. LOL So far we're good to go. That's just the plumbing/physical stuff checked though. Tomorrow he's going to hook it up to electricity and check that everything else is working properly (fridge, a/c, etc.) Once the mirrors and brake controller arrive- he'll hook that up and said he'll need to hook up the trailer to my vehicle and start on the process of adjusting the brakes- whatever all that means (he knows- i don't LOL) -which also drives it around obviously- so he'll get an idea of how it's going to feel towing it with my vehicle instead of his. I am sufficiently afraid of even attempting for a MOMENT to tow this trailer on this trip.... so he's definitely doing all the driving. LOL

 

[stacktester]

I've tried keeping up with this novel but the posts are so big that's hard to do. Usually I think Larry can go too far but one thing I'll give him is he does his research and knows weights. If I had an SUV or something borderline to tow an rv I'd seriously consider a few phone conversations with him for weight advice.

I don't think mirrors or brake controllers necessarily are big factors in the makeup of a tow vehicle. I have an 04 Silverado with the Duramax Diesel which by god if it wasn't made to tow a trailer I don't know what is. It didn't come with big mirrors or a brake controller. I think 05's have the nice pull out big mirrors. I recently bought the slip on extended mirrors after towing a camper since 04 that was hard to see around. When I bought my first toyhauler I had a drawtite digital brake controller installed. Very easy to get used to.

I will be bashed for saying this but I DO NOT like SUV's to tow with. Most of these suv's have a very short wb which causes the front tires to lift up when you add a trailer. I've heard all the.................. but I got a weight distributor, tow package and brake controller. Fine, but does that make it safe? No. You should see some of the people I know wanting to haul a horse trailer with a Durango or the like. One person I know almost got her mother and daughter killed pulling a 2 horse trailer with a Toyota 4 Runner V-8 on I-10 and a semi passed her and sucked her in and then pushed her off the road into the woods when it passed. She and her husband came to me when they were buying for my input and I begged them not to tow with the 4 Runner. After the accident they owned an F-250 crew cab.

I'm sure the Expy can haul this trailer if set up properly. Like the Excursion being on an F-250 chassis I believe the Expy is a glorified F-150. A friend of mine has a 4x4 F-150 and he bought an 18' camper with an 8'x8' deck on front for 4 wheelers. It's a hybrid and only weighs 4,500 lbs and he said the truck sags in the back and is too much for the truck. This is without 4 wheelers on it btw.

One thing I strongly suggest is that you don't put luggage or other heavy items in the cargo area even if it has the net. If you were involved in an accident these things become projectiles. I recently caught my mom with a drop hitch in the back of her burb and she doesn't even tow anything lol. Trust me things get real heavy when you go from 70-0.

I'm not trying to be a know it all but I have pulled horse trailers since I was 14 and live weight is even trickier. It sounds to me there are just some concerns here and most have given correct advice. Good luck getting it put together. BTW, I think this sums up why Scott aka Discampers siggy says I'd say go with the bigger tow vehicle. Good advice.

 

[Thumper_ehhhhh]

I've tried keeping up with this novel but the posts are so big that's hard to do. Usually I think Larry can go too far but one thing I'll give him is he does his research and knows weights. If I had an SUV or something borderline to tow an rv I'd seriously consider a few phone conversations with him for weight advice.

I don't think mirrors or brake controllers necessarily are big factors in the makeup of a tow vehicle. I have an 04 Silverado with the Duramax Diesel which by god if it wasn't made to tow a trailer I don't know what is. It didn't come with big mirrors or a brake controller. I think 05's have the nice pull out big mirrors. I recently bought the slip on extended mirrors after towing a camper since 04 that was hard to see around. When I bought my first toyhauler I had a drawtite digital brake controller installed. Very easy to get used to.

I will be bashed for saying this but I DO NOT like SUV's to tow with. Most of these suv's have a very short wb which causes the front tires to lift up when you add a trailer. I've heard all the.................. but I got a weight distributor, tow package and brake controller. Fine, but does that make it safe? No. You should see some of the people I know wanting to haul a horse trailer with a Durango or the like. One person I know almost got her mother and daughter killed pulling a 2 horse trailer with a Toyota 4 Runner V-8 on I-10 and a semi passed her and sucked her in and then pushed her off the road into the woods when it passed. She and her husband came to me when they were buying for my input and I begged them not to tow with the 4 Runner. After the accident they owned an F-250 crew cab.

I'm sure the Expy can haul this trailer if set up properly. Like the Excursion being on an F-250 chassis I believe the Expy is a glorified F-150. A friend of mine has a 4x4 F-150 and he bought an 18' camper with an 8'x8' deck on front for 4 wheelers. It's a hybrid and only weighs 4,500 lbs and he said the truck sags in the back and is too much for the truck. This is without 4 wheelers on it btw.

One thing I strongly suggest is that you don't put luggage or other heavy items in the cargo area even if it has the net. If you were involved in an accident these things become projectiles. I recently caught my mom with a drop hitch in the back of her burb and she doesn't even tow anything lol. Trust me things get real heavy when you go from 70-0.

I'm not trying to be a know it all but I have pulled horse trailers since I was 14 and live weight is even trickier. It sounds to me there are just some concerns here and most have given correct advice. Good luck getting it put together. BTW, I think this sums up why Scott aka Discampers siggy says I'd say go with the bigger tow vehicle. Good advice.

 

[curly-love]

We used to have the extentors on our car but when we bought our new truck they came on it! They are a great help when you are towing something!!

 

[SCCamper]

Attn: The Fox is in the Henhouse...I repeat...The Fox is in the Henhouse.

My attempt at humor. Sorry. I sent the package via FedEx this morning. Hope they work out for you.

 

[BibbidyBobbidyBoo]

One thing I strongly suggest is that you don't put luggage or other heavy items in the cargo area even if it has the net. If you were involved in an accident these things become projectiles. I recently caught my mom with a drop hitch in the back of her burb and she doesn't even tow anything lol. Trust me things get real heavy when you go from 70-0.

I'm not trying to be a know it all but I have pulled horse trailers since I was 14 and live weight is even trickier. It sounds to me there are just some concerns here and most have given correct advice. Good luck getting it put together. BTW, I think this sums up why Scott aka Discampers siggy says I'd say go with the bigger tow vehicle. Good advice.

A) OMG..... here I was thinking for some odd reason i'd rather have our luggage in the vehicle with us rather than in the trailer- when I'm the world's biggest advocate for not having loose items in the back- (constantly griping at friends and relatives for doing that) and I should be.... it's why my mother is a quadraplegic right now! Where was my head! Thank you for getting my head on straight again! ugh what was I thinking!!!
(my mother replaced a screw in tire in the hatchback with a tv to get it repaired- upon returning the tire in the back she didn't screw it in- a minor accident caused the tire to hit her in the head, with seatbelt on and ofcourse tightened in the accident- and she became a quadraplegic because of it.. 19yrs ago, 2mo after we were married so basically most of my adult life. I'm now almost 2yrs older than SHE WAS when her accident happened. )
I definitely had a brain fart on that one. thanks for the reminder!

B) I agree and appreciate the advice!
(and also agree that live weight is even trickier!)

Attn: The Fox is in the Henhouse...I repeat...The Fox is in the Henhouse.

My attempt at humor. Sorry. I sent the package via FedEx this morning. Hope they work out for you.

LOL!
THANKS SO MUCH!

 

[BibbidyBobbidyBoo]

http://www.tekonsha.com/product/details.asp?ProdID=3025-P

Thats the connector for the prodigy brake controler for the 2000 Suburban. You would be better of towing with the Suburban that the Expy mainly with wheel base. Im not knocking the expy but if i had both in the driveway I would always choose the longer wheel base. JMO

That's what we've already purchased- thanks!!!!

I hear what you're saying but there are other factors to consider- the biggest one being that his vehicle isn't wired for brake controllers but other factors to consider in addition to that big one. yanno? I appreciate your advice though.

 

[papopup]

Hope you're safe, have a great trip

 

[speedyoutlaw]

Geeze, craw under DH truck n cut off his 7 pin and install on yours. Then go to the next farmers convention and steal them mirrors off one of them farm trucks!! Problem solved.