OK, fess up... which of y'all would have wanted the guy to take his flag down?

[golfgal]

Amen to the laundry, I don't know why people feel the need to hang it out on the line, TACKY, IMHO

And I think people that don't like clothes lines are snobby--so it is all relative I guess. I WISH I could use a clothesline but with our kids' allergies that is just asking for trouble here. When they move out we are back to sheets on the line .

 

[yoopermom]

I proudly display the American flag on a pole AND my laundry...so there!

Terri

 

[Anjelica]

If you've ever lived next to someone who had a junkyard in their backyard, like my father had to deal with, you wouldn't wonder.

I would prefer folks acknowledge, accept, and respect the way other people prefer living, rather than second-guessing and trying to cast aspersions on such folks.

What is ridiculous is when people choose to live in a specific place with specific rules and then presume to place themselves above it all, and assert that the rules that they agreed to don't apply to them.

In this case, there should have been an exception. Other than that, the system is sound, and shouldn't be ridiculed any more than you would want your own choices about where you live to be ridiculed.

I am a HUGE Armed Forces supporter. My father was a 20 year Navy Veteran, my brother is in the Army (and lost his leg in Iraq) and my brother-in-law is in the Air Force. I GREATLY respect and appreciate the men and women of the military, both past and present.

With all the above being said - if you live in an area with HOA rules you need to follow the rules. If you don't like the rules than don't live there. Why most of us would think an American Flag isn't a problem (its really the flag pole that most likely caused the issue) if you allow a flag/flag pole for that then you need to allow others to have a flag/flag pole which may not even be an American flag (i.e. Nazi flag, upside down American flag or even a Pink Flamingo flag). One homeowners good taste may be another's tackiness, therefore some balance has to be found.

While some HOA's can take things to an extreme the purpose behind them is to try and "make" folks be responsible. You would not believe some of the crap people try and get away with in our subdivision. People leave trash piled up in their front yard, don't mow their lawn for months, etc. (and we have an HOA). We also have several houses for sale in our subdivision and I guarantee you if I was looking for a house and saw the house next to me had trash piled up in their front lawn or they didn't care about their lawn mowed I wouldn't want to buy the house. Basically, the rules are there to keep the community "whole" and continue to keep property values up for EVERYONE.

Bottom line - I don't like some of the rules our government, law enforcement, etc. have but that certainly doesn't mean I am above them and simply ignore them. Same with an HOA area - if you don't like the rules than leave. If a majority of people were against HOA's I guarantee you they would be a dying breed but that doesn't seem to be the case.

 

[LisaR]

I'd be fine with an American flag flying on a flagpole. Now, if it was a Confederate flag or a Nazi flag, no.

Marsha

Herein lies the problem. If he is allowed to fly his flag, why can't the neighbor fly their confederate flag or Nazi flag? Personally, I LOVE having a HOA. I live in an area where people freely fly their confederate flags (which I know some people are fine with but I am not). I don't want to pull into my subdivision everyday and stare at someone's 21 foot tall confederate flag. It is bad enough that I have to see small ones on their front porch. Allowing this veteran freedom to fly his 21 foot patriotic flag would almost guarantee someone in my area would fly something that is offensive to many. Honestly, when I lived up north, I would have had a totally different opinion on this and wouldn't have thought twice about it. Since moving down south, my opinion has changed.

 

[wendy46001]

We have a large flag pole in our yard. I am SO glad we don't have a micromanaging HOA (we don't have any kind of an HOA). I just don't understand why people need an HOA anyway. People here seem to be able to manage not painting their houses strange colors and keeping their yards presentable without them.

Around here they are needed, i don’t know if its cultural or just florida...but we need it written down that you cant have a bright pink house, that you cant have 12 individual renters in a single family home, etc, etc ...also with small lots (its to hot to mow a large yard) we limit yard tents/furniture without a fence...the homes are just to close together

This man had every right to display his flag...but he didn’t have to put it 20feet in the air....I’m sure there are flag poles that fit the limitations of his HOA

also being in florida i'd hate for my neighbor to put up something that could crush my home in a hurricane

 

[golfgal]

Just an FYI- 21 feet is VERY tall-taller than a two story houe. maybe a had one of those giant flags like car dealers have-that would be an eyesore-dont care if he's retired military.

Our flag pole is probably that tall. Our flag is your standard flag you buy in the store-same as someone putting one on a flag pole attached to their house.

Our flagpole is as tall as our 2 story house and given that we have 10' ceilings on our main floor and 9' ceilings plus the rafter space our house is at least 21' tall. That is pretty normal for a flag pole.

 

[janey99]

LOL - I'll be the one!!!!!

I hate flagpoles in individual yards - I think they look tacky and out of place. Way too commercial a look for me in someone's front yard.

I LOVE people who fly American flags, though, and wish more people would do it. But I like the kind of small pole that is attached at an angle to a post or column on your front porch - not a big tall metal pole stuck in the ground. To my mind, those are for commercial properties, not private homes.

I'm in favor of most homeowner and neighborhood restrictions. I don't want to see your laundry drying in the backyard when I drive by!!

Liz, I'm with you on this - my next door neighbor has a flagpole, probably about that same height, and frankly, I find it cheesy (ducks the inevitable rotten vegetables being thrown). It looks commercial, like it belongs in front of a small office park. He puts the American flag on top, and then his "banner du jour" underneath, usually something like a Rangers hockey flag, but sometimes a BRD flag (??). He also takes it upon himself to fly the flag at half mast regularly for reasons known only to him.

We don't live in an HOA, and our yards are separated by sufficient foliage that I can't see it, but when I do consider it, it does annoy me. Also, visitors to my house are always asking questions that I can't answer - Why is the flag at half mast? Why is he flying an old German flag? Are you allowed to put other flags on the same pole as the US flag? Shouldn't he take that in at night/bad weather blah blah blah? Do I look like the honor guard? Ask him yourself!

Jane

 

[pansmermaidzlagoon]

double post

 

[pansmermaidzlagoon]

It is always a choice. There are always other places to live; perhaps the HOAs are located better, or cost less, or have other advantages, but those are the things you trade-off against that which you perceive as disadvantages of agreeing to live in community with others.

Oh I agree, I just didn't want the poster just above me to think I was directing anything at them specifically.

I also agree with your other post - you don't like the rules where you live - then work through the proper channels to change them!!!

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

You do realize that not everyone is lucky enough to be able to own a dryer and can't afford the laundry mat.

I hate nosy people who think they have the right to tell the people what they can and can't have in there own property. If they don't like what people have in there yard look the other way.

And I was reading elsewhere (not sure if this board or another board)--people do it for environmental reasons. Clothing can dry fine in the breeze and dryers cost a lot to operate.

I hadn't realized, but some states now have laws that prohibit HOAs from having such a rule.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

It is always a choice. There are always other places to live; perhaps the HOAs are located better, or cost less, or have other advantages, but those are the things you trade-off against that which you perceive as disadvantages of agreeing to live in community with others.

I always wonder if some HOA rules would pass the constitutional muster.

I thought I had heard of a central Florida HOA that had an issue with a flag and it was determined they could not prohibit the home owner from flying it.

One of those passing stories that I do not recall specific details unfortunately. (ETA: it is not this story, but one from a while ago.)

To use an extreme example--an HOA could not have in its bylaws that only certain races could live in the neighborhood.

 

[C.Ann]

Nope, I wouldn't mind the flag but I would mind having to cough up a special assessment for legal fees because of my association board getting carried away by its "responsibilities." As an attorney who represents owners associations on a regular basis, I am always amazed how rabid and gung ho owners are to seek legal solutions to problems until they understand they have to put their money where their mouth is and pay up front for the fight to the tune of several thousand dollars. When you tell the board they need a vote to go forward with a special assessment, the enthusiasm has a tendency to wane quite quickly. Not to mention the bad PR for the neighborhood taking a stand against patriotic free speech. The guy is 90 -- the flag won't be out there forever.

Pick your battles people!

Nope. I think that man has MORE than earned his right to have a flagpole in his yard. Just one more example of a power-hungry, mob-mentality HOA.

This isnt the first time we've seen something like this in the news. Thats why I would never want to live with a HOA. Just once I would like to see a HOA require residents to fly an American flag on their property. Then I could have some respect for them.

No - I would not mind.. Not in the least..

Another good reason to never live in one of these HOA communities..

 

[Nancyg56]

If you've ever lived next to someone who had a junkyard in their backyard, like my father had to deal with, you wouldn't wonder.

I would prefer folks acknowledge, accept, and respect the way other people prefer living, rather than second-guessing and trying to cast aspersions on such folks.

What is ridiculous is when people choose to live in a specific place with specific rules and then presume to place themselves above it all, and assert that the rules that they agreed to don't apply to them.

In this case, there should have been an exception. Other than that, the system is sound, and shouldn't be ridiculed any more than you would want your own choices about where you live to be ridiculed.

I agree. The association rules are there to read before you move in. My sister almost purchased a home in a development but the HOA rule specified that garden plans and produce needed to be approved by the association. She gardens and has lovely taste but the thought of having strangers decide if she could plant her carrots was something she chose not to consider. If she had move she would have been obligated to follow the process. I am afraid to think what must have been planted at one time to necessitate that provision

In my world once you sign your name you need to abide by that contract.

It is always a choice. There are always other places to live; perhaps the HOAs are located better, or cost less, or have other advantages, but those are the things you trade-off against that which you perceive as disadvantages of agreeing to live in community with others.

 

[OceanAnnie]

he earned a medal of honor -- he deserves to be granted a waiver of the rules for this.

the rule itself is sound and defensible, without equivocation. People, living in a community that has agreed to be bound together, and together bound to bylaws set forth for the community, have a right to expect everyone in the community to abide with that community's duly-established rules.

This specific person, in this specific circumstance, however, warrants an exception be made.

ita.

 

[sbell111]

Medal of Honor winner or not he knew the rules when he moved in and chose to violate them.

It would be one thing if he went to his HOA and presented his case and asked for a waiver (which he probably would've gotten). But to violate the rules then use his service record to make the association look like the bad guys just festered the problem.

 

[bicker]

I always wonder if some HOA rules would pass the constitutional muster.

The vast majority that people think would not pass legal muster actually would, and with flying colors.

One of the most common HOA rules that does not pass legal muster are rules that limit or prohibit satellite dishes. There is a federal law that essentially nullifies bans, and restricts limitations.

 

[mhsjax]

You do realize that not everyone is lucky enough to be able to own a dryer and can't afford the laundry mat.

I hate nosy people who think they have the right to tell the people what they can and can't have in there own property. If they don't like what people have in there yard look the other way.

Im sorry, but if you own a house you should be able to own a dryer. And yes call me nosy but seeing clothes flapping is the breeze is tacky looking. Thankfully I don't have to worry about it, I live in a neighborhood with a HOA and I wouldn't live in a neighborhood without one. So I will never have to worry about seeing clothes hanging outside.

By the way before anyone says how great clothes are dried outside, my mom did it for years and hated it, I much prefer the feel and smell of stuff fresh out of the dryer.

 

[mhsjax]

because not using the dryer saves energy, lessens energy bills, makes the clothes last longer, and they don't shrink
I have been pestering my dh to put a line up for me for ages.

so for the flagpole, wouldn't bother me at all.
what are the aesthetic guidelines anyway? are they spelled out? specifically no flagpoles or is the aesthetically pleasing part subjective?
another reason I wouldn't live in a neighborhood with an HOA.

I'm sorry but my clothes last for years and if you dry them properly they don't shrink. You guys can argue to the death with me on this one, but my mind will not be changed. I HATE CLOTHES ON LINES OUTSIDE. Rant over

 

[bicker]

Im sorry, but if you own a house you should be able to own a dryer.

I actually think both ways are fine -- really all three ways: Hanging clothes outside permitted; Hanging clothes outside prohibited; and even Gas/Electric clothes dryers prohibited. Whatever people want -- the point is that people should have a right to come together in associations, if they choose to, and agree to live together by a set of rules, with any of those three (or perhaps some fourth case I cannot think of) the case.

 

[TheGoofster]

Wow, interesting thread. To be honest my first thought was the same as many here - how stupid. Of course he should be able to fly his flag. But after reading many of the threads about why he shouldn't (mainly about agreeing to a contract) I can also see the other side.

I think it would help if we knew the whole story. It sounds to me like this is the kind of man who would have been flying the flag for most of his life. So is this a new rule change that he is fighting? Or did he move into this community with the rules already there, and he just didn't like them? Did he live here before the HOA started, or again, did he move into it, knowing what he was getting into? (kind of like the situation with Papa Deuces mom).

Bicker brings up an interesting point that the HOA has the right to make new rule changes, but that also makes me think of some situations that those who are defending the HOA's right to do this might have a problem with.

Let's suppose that you move into an area with a HOA, and after reading all the guidelines you feel comfortable making the decision to live there. But, after a year or so, the HOA decides that they no longer feel like pets are a good idea, and so you would have to get rid of your pets. Would those of you who have pets (a beloved dog or cat who many feel like are part of the family) fight this decision? Would you simply just move away (like some have mentioned, even though moving is such a humongous bother - not to mention expensive procedure)? Would you get rid of your pet?

Are there any situations that you would fight your HOA over? I understand why some would want to live in an area that helps keep property values up (and in some cases junky yards away), but are there any situations that might cause you to fight against a HOA? Without knowing the whole story, this seems to me like such a situation where this man is fighting for what he truly believes in (of course it might be that he's just a kranky old dude who just didn't feel like trying to go through the right channels) It really is hard to say without knowing the whole story though.

BTW, I can't help but think of Christmas with the Kranks while reading this thread. "We want Frosty!!! Give us Frosty!!!"