OFFICIAL January 2012 5K, Half Marathon, Marathon, Goofy or Dopey Challenge Thread

[DrMomof3]

Congrats to those who have finished a 20 mile or more run! My 20 miler is waiting for me on Saturday morning.

I have a question for Coach or anyone else who can help. I'm trying to figure out this whole fuel thing for my longer runs. In general I feel like I'm doing a better job of fueling than I was a few months ago when I would finish a 10 mile run and feel cranky all day long. I now make sure I do a better job of eating enough and enough of the right foods after my run. I'm worried about fueling for a 20 mile run (or for the marathon for that matter!). I have a pretty strong stomach and seem to tolerate most things pretty well. I've tried shot bloks, sports beans, gu, etc. and everything is ok for me. I just feel like I need to eat something pretty regularly during my runs or I can get light headed (this happened during my 15 mile run and I took a pack of sports bean and felt better). It almost seems like I need to eat more during my runs than what I've been reading from others here (or maybe I have the wrong impression of how much fueling everyone is doing?). I definitely drink enough during my runs - maybe even too much - and I drink both water and gatorade. I also find that after a longer run I tend to crave salt on everything. Any suggestions for fueling? Is there ever a need to have fuel with extra salt supplementation in it? I don't want to crash and burn because of fuel or salt. Thoughts?

Thank you all!
Amanda

 

[stitchfan18]

Congrats to those who have finished a 20 mile or more run! My 20 miler is waiting for me on Saturday morning.

I have a question for Coach or anyone else who can help. I'm trying to figure out this whole fuel thing for my longer runs. In general I feel like I'm doing a better job of fueling than I was a few months ago when I would finish a 10 mile run and feel cranky all day long. I now make sure I do a better job of eating enough and enough of the right foods after my run. I'm worried about fueling for a 20 mile run (or for the marathon for that matter!). I have a pretty strong stomach and seem to tolerate most things pretty well. I've tried shot bloks, sports beans, gu, etc. and everything is ok for me. I just feel like I need to eat something pretty regularly during my runs or I can get light headed (this happened during my 15 mile run and I took a pack of sports bean and felt better). It almost seems like I need to eat more during my runs than what I've been reading from others here (or maybe I have the wrong impression of how much fueling everyone is doing?). I definitely drink enough during my runs - maybe even too much - and I drink both water and gatorade. I also find that after a longer run I tend to crave salt on everything. Any suggestions for fueling? Is there ever a need to have fuel with extra salt supplementation in it? I don't want to crash and burn because of fuel or salt. Thoughts?

Thank you all!
Amanda

During one of my marathons this fall the pacer I ran with introduced me to salt/ electrolyte pills. It was a saving grace during my first marathon. No muscle cramping, and no hitting the wall. I got some of my own and used them during my next marathon with the same results. I would suggest the pills if you feel like you need more salt. I have a hard time with eating too much salt on foods, so this works great for me. As far as fueling, I eat more than most probably, but I usually take GU every 4-5 miles, and then I alternate GU with Sports beans every 4-5 miles as well (ie: Gu @ mile 4, SB at mile 6, GU at mile 8, SB at mile 10, etc.) I don't do a whole pack of SB at a time. I usually go through 2 packs of sports beans, and 5-6 gels during a marathon. My pockets look like stuffed chipmunk cheeks at the start

 

[cewait]

Congrats to those who have finished a 20 mile or more run! My 20 miler is waiting for me on Saturday morning.

I have a question for Coach or anyone else who can help. I'm trying to figure out this whole fuel thing for my longer runs. In general I feel like I'm doing a better job of fueling than I was a few months ago when I would finish a 10 mile run and feel cranky all day long. I now make sure I do a better job of eating enough and enough of the right foods after my run. I'm worried about fueling for a 20 mile run (or for the marathon for that matter!). I have a pretty strong stomach and seem to tolerate most things pretty well. I've tried shot bloks, sports beans, gu, etc. and everything is ok for me. I just feel like I need to eat something pretty regularly during my runs or I can get light headed (this happened during my 15 mile run and I took a pack of sports bean and felt better). It almost seems like I need to eat more during my runs than what I've been reading from others here (or maybe I have the wrong impression of how much fueling everyone is doing?). I definitely drink enough during my runs - maybe even too much - and I drink both water and gatorade. I also find that after a longer run I tend to crave salt on everything. Any suggestions for fueling? Is there ever a need to have fuel with extra salt supplementation in it? I don't want to crash and burn because of fuel or salt. Thoughts?

Thank you all!
Amanda

Salt supplementation may be a good idea... I usually do not recommend out of the blue since sport drink and sport nutritional supplements bring on a load of electrolytes as well. There are a few electrolyte supplements that are buffered so they do not kill the GI tract on the run. I use Endurolytes from Hammer Nutrition during marathons. I really only suggest electrolytic supplements for those who notice a white crusty residue on clothing during a run or as their clothing dries. I am sure that even if this does not occur, the minimal dosage (or less) on the bottle would do little harm during a run.

With regard to fueling on the run the starting point is...

For any run lasting more than 90 minutes, start taking a gel (or other supplement) around 45 minutes and then one every 45 minutes there after. Again, a starting point. I find runners who need a 30 minute interval and those who can go much longer. A serving of gel (or other) is the package that is comes in. Most are 100Kcal packages, designed that way to avoid GI overloading. Also, as a general rule of thumb, you are limited to about 200 Kcal/hr. intake while running. Start with the 45 minutes then move up or down on time.

I find that I like gels a little longer is I carry 2-3 flavors. I load my fuel belt or fanny pack with with the flavors mixed up. Then I pull the random flavor out as needed. This keep you from locking in and using all your favorite gels in the first of the race and keeps you from dreading that same flavor in the later stages as you grow tired of it.

 

[runningmomof5]

Hello everyone!

Coach, I have a question for you...

As per your suggestion, I should be doing a 15 mile run this weekend. So far, it looks like the weather will be miserable (severe rain fall). I was wondering if I could split the 15 miles in 2 runs of 7.5 miles (one in the morning and one later on) since I'll be running on the treadmill. It gets soooo boring starring at the same thing for that long!
I ran my 13 mile run last weekend on the treadmill with a 2% incline and it went well but like I said, it's so boring!
I just want to make sure that it won't affect my training for Goofy if I split it.

If others have done this, please share your thoughts...

Thanks!

 

[cewait]

Hello everyone!

Coach, I have a question for you...

As per your suggestion, I should be doing a 15 mile run this weekend. So far, it looks like the weather will be miserable (severe rain fall). I was wondering if I could split the 15 miles in 2 runs of 7.5 miles (one in the morning and one later on) since I'll be running on the treadmill. It gets soooo boring starring at the same thing for that long!
I ran my 13 mile run last weekend on the treadmill with a 2% incline and it went well but like I said, it's so boring!
I just want to make sure that it won't affect my training for Goofy if I split it.

If others have done this, please share your thoughts...

Thanks!

Part of the long run experience is dealing with mind games as well as energy bleed while on the run. Ideally all long runs would be continuous....

Saying that, life gets in the way at times so splitting a run here and there is not out of the question. Though, rather than split equally, I would look to split 9 & 6 or 10/5. Splitting in this fashion assures that you leap some residual fatigue int he legs for the afternoon run. Do try to keep the period between the runs shorter rather than longer. I would say not more than 10-12 hours apart. Also, don't go crazy through the day and overdo it. Remember to stay hydrated.

Hope this helps

 

[DrMomof3]

Thanks for the advice on the fueling and salt replacement. That was very helpful. I had been taking something every hour but that's clearly not enough for me (or anyone else according to your formula! ). I just want to try to make this 20 mile run as race-like as possible (in terms of fuel, water, etc. and not in terms of speed - I'll do a training pace).

Amanda

 

[Tiger Lily 03]

I will use Endurolytes if the weather is a bit on the warm side for me. Love the Endurolytes. I am out in it so long that I need something for sure, just under the 7 hr time limit is my goal. I get a sweat on almost immediately, hydrate with what is offered, always take the 1/2 cup offering of water or ade and then bring my Gu. I always find it hard to get the entire Gu packet down and will take half then the other half after about 20-30 minutes.

Funny thing for me was last full they actually had enough of that wonderful chocolate candy everyone raves about for those of us at the back of the pack--my first time to partake in the 6 of those WDW Goofy events. I could not muster enough saliva to melt a thing and ended up spitting it into the nearest trash bin. I will not complain that they run out of that ever again.

 

[runningmomof5]

Part of the long run experience is dealing with mind games as well as energy bleed while on the run. Ideally all long runs would be continuous....

Saying that, life gets in the way at times so splitting a run here and there is not out of the question. Though, rather than split equally, I would look to split 9 & 6 or 10/5. Splitting in this fashion assures that you leap some residual fatigue int he legs for the afternoon run. Do try to keep the period between the runs shorter rather than longer. I would say not more than 10-12 hours apart. Also, don't go crazy through the day and overdo it. Remember to stay hydrated.

Hope this helps

Thanks Coach!
We'll see what happens... If I am lucky, I'll be able to get outside and do the continuous run. If not, I'll go for a 10/5 with maybe an hour between each. I just wanted to be able to get a different backdrop if I had to use the treadmill (it's in the basement so it would be nice to get some sunlight at some point!).
I did 8 miles on the treadmill today and it wasn't too bad except for the fact that my toddler was fed up and wanted to go upstairs after a while

 

[Disney Yooper]

Thanks Coach!
We'll see what happens... If I am lucky, I'll be able to get outside and do the continuous run. If not, I'll go for a 10/5 with maybe an hour between each. I just wanted to be able to get a different backdrop if I had to use the treadmill (it's in the basement so it would be nice to get some sunlight at some point!).
I did 8 miles on the treadmill today and it wasn't too bad except for the fact that my toddler was fed up and wanted to go upstairs after a while

I also have to do a lot of my miles on the treadmill. I pop in my Disney planning DVDs and other purchased Disney touring DVDs. That helps me get through the miles.

 

[ironz]

Oh, just another post to agree with Coach Charles!!
(not just to increase my post count...but to re-iterate Cewait's good info!)

Fueling: I aim for at least 100 calories per hour on a run over one hour, but ideally more like 150. So a gel, or 3 shot blocks or the equivalent every 40 minutes pretty much works out. You'll get some calories from the Powerade on course, but if they dilute it (which races tend to do, and I don't agree with--though too concentrated is also bad on your tummy), you can't always count on getting all your calories that way. For example...if you can get 50-100 calories from the Powerade every hour and one gel down, you're doing pretty good to keep the fuel up. Just be sure and drink water with your gels.

Splitting long runs: I totally agree with Charles. Getting the time/miles in (whatever your program and fitness allow) is good, and splitting it sometimes helps to get it done if life gets in the way, or if you just need to reset if the first run isn't going well, or whatever. In my triathlon training program, we never run more than 3 hours for an Ironman or marathon...for the fast people, that's a good solid 20 miler. For me, if I went by miles, 20 miles would take at least 4 hours, and my 48 year old body just doesn't recover as well from that...I would lose more training time to the recovery than it is worth getting the miles in (I've done 11 marathons, including Ironmans, so my body knows how to push to get through the distance when it needs to....at whatever pace it takes). BUT...with those 3 hour max runs, we often do an extra 30 minutes later in the day...it helps to run on tired legs...to be used to it, but also to sort of get the blood moving around again. And for me, that gets me up to 18 in a day, and that has worked.

OK...that got long...sorry!

Hope that makes any sense.

Charles...I won't be at any meets, but I do hope I'll meet you sometime over the marathon weekend!

 

[aaronv88]

Goodluck on Training everyone. I wish i was training with your guys, instead i am still trying to heal my left ankle. The pain has been bothering me for the pass 3 weeks. Went for a follow up and he gave me a ankle support that you can pump air for your arch. He said that if there is a 1/2 marathon now, i would be able to finish it. I kinda was shocked cause i still dont believe i could. My doctor's goal is to get me ready for the 1/2 and it would be cutting it close. At this point i think i will be walking and trying to finish in 16 minutes. 2 more visits and maybe i would need a cortisone shot before the race. This is very disappointing for me. Hope you guys keep up the training but dont train too hard cause the last thing you want to do is to get injured.

 

[DrMomof3]

Thank you all for sharing your thoughts on fueling!
I ordered Endurolytes (thank you Amazon Prime) which should be here before my weekend long run. I'm curious to see if that helps me. I also ordered several different kinds of fuel to test and see what I like. I happy that I have enough time to try a few different things before that actual marathon.

I've done quite a few miles on the treadmill, too. My DH is being wonderful and taking our 3 year old along to Hebrew School with the "big" kids this weekend so I can do my entire 20 mile run outdoors. For long runs I've been getting up at 5am and running as far as I can before it's time for the kids to go to weekend activities and then I finish up on the treadmill while watching Disney Junior with the youngest. Talk about boring! I did 99% of my half marathon training on the treadmill last year and ran so much faster at the actual race that I was surprised! (I'm not fast by any stretch of the imagination, I just was faster than I thought!)

Aaron - I'm sorry about your injury. Take care of yourself!

Amanda

 

[cewait]

Goodluck on Training everyone. I wish i was training with your guys, instead i am still trying to heal my left ankle. The pain has been bothering me for the pass 3 weeks. Went for a follow up and he gave me a ankle support that you can pump air for your arch. He said that if there is a 1/2 marathon now, i would be able to finish it. I kinda was shocked cause i still dont believe i could. My doctor's goal is to get me ready for the 1/2 and it would be cutting it close. At this point i think i will be walking and trying to finish in 16 minutes. 2 more visits and maybe i would need a cortisone shot before the race. This is very disappointing for me. Hope you guys keep up the training but dont train too hard cause the last thing you want to do is to get injured.

Good luck and get better. You will be surprised at the fitness you carry into the race, even if you do little between now and then. Starting is actually the largest hurdle due to the unknown of will your ankle hurt before 13 is up.

A word of caution about taking the cortisone shot too close to race day..... Cortisone is a great treatment for inflammation and really helps the body push through an injury to a joint. But it is also thought to soften connective tissue for a short amount of time ( a few days to a week). Heading out for a long or high intensity run in this period may be counter productive and may lead to failure of the cognitive tissues. A good rule of thumb, especially in the ankle foot complex is to allow at least a week between a treatment and the race

 

[GBBTomorrow]

Yeah! He walks a HM faster than I can run one!

Same here!! His walk is better than my "running" HM PR!

 

[roomthreeseventeen]

Coach (and anyone else who has marathon experience),

I’m planning (I think) to go out at a 12:15 pace for the marathon, which is what I train at. My justification for this is that I’m going to be running a little more than an hour longer than I’ve ever run before, and if I’m feeling particularly super at mile 20, I can speed up.

Does this sound like an okay strategy, or am I selling myself short? (This is my first marathon, my HM pace is 9:58)

 

[cewait]

Coach (and anyone else who has marathon experience),

I’m planning (I think) to go out at a 12:15 pace for the marathon, which is what I train at. My justification for this is that I’m going to be running a little more than an hour longer than I’ve ever run before, and if I’m feeling particularly super at mile 20, I can speed up.

Does this sound like an okay strategy, or am I selling myself short? (This is my first marathon, my HM pace is 9:58)

As a first timer, your strategy is very sound. Plan on running at a training pace through mile 20 then pick the pace up as you cross over into the "out and back" section. There will be a natural energy gain in this section as you see runners meeting you face to face. At that point you are virtually home.... it would only take a catastrophic event to keep you from the finish.

If you a few events under your belt, I would say start out a little faster, in the 10:45-11:00 range and try for a better result. Though. you may well find that you are running around an 11 mm around mile 2 or 3 anyway as you work around runners in the crowd from the start. Don't panic if you do, just try to pull it back a bit and stick with your training pace. Keep relaxed and definitely follow your hydration strategy if you find yourself unable to slow up to your training pace.

So long story shortened... It's a great plan going into the race, there is a chance that the race day energy will pull you along a little faster. If you find yourself going around an 11 mm, enjoy the run. Your wheels may start to fall off a little more severely, but focus on the mental game once that happens and you will be a marathoner.

 

[jmasgat]

Amy I think you may be selling yourself a little short (but who am I to disagree with Coach!). Training paces are always slower than race paces (and don't ask me where the extra speed comes from!) and based on your half pace, "the charts" (and my training book) say you could run at around 10:30.

I would go out faster than 12. Why not shoot for 11? or if you really don't want to push it too hard, 11:30? At this point, it's really a mental decision more than anything else.

Maura

 

[roomthreeseventeen]

I think 10:30 would be WAY too hard for me. I guess my real question is whether it's going to kick my butt to attempt to go out with the 5:00 pace group.

 

[cewait]

I think 10:30 would be WAY too hard for me. I guess my real question is whether it's going to kick my butt to attempt to go out with the 5:00 pace group.

I am not a fan of a first time runner hanging onto a pace group. Saying that, I think a 5 group is well within your means. You will more than likely need to fall BACK a corral to start with them based on your half times.

I would look them up... I think you are a run walker so chat around with the group to find a run walker using your interval and at least mentally hook up with them. You do not need to friend them, just be able to ID them so you have a relative measure during those periods where you are either ahead of or behind the pace group due to your R/W.

Note that if you feel your pace is not matching well, do not be afraid to fall off or push ahead as required.


ADDED - I agree that a 10:30, while doable is pushing the limits and possibly forcing a death march.

 

[roomthreeseventeen]

Thanks, Coach. I’m not a run/walker, just a slower runner. I do intervals over the summer sometimes, but now I seem to be in a running groove.

I definitely learned my lesson about pace groups at the National Half Marathon. I went out with the 4:20 pacer (who said she was going to run a 2:09 half). She initially said she was going to run even splits, and then changed her mind and decided to walk the water stations and BOOK it to the next one. I had to let them go at mile 2 or so, because I wasn’t prepared to run 8:50’s and then walk a minute.

I ended up running a 2:10:28 (which included tripping on a pothole and skinning myself), and her pace group was at least a half mile behind me.

If I chose to go out with a pacer at WDW, it would only be VERY conditionally.