OFFICIAL Avengers: Endgame Discussion Thread (will contain spoilers once the movie is out)

[ChrisFL]

I do expect some drop-off of the new MCU movies after this, however I am excited for Guardians 3 in a few years.

 

[leiaorgana]

How’s everyone feeling about Sam!Cap? I know that both Sam and Bucky have taken up the Cap mantle at different times in comics but I’ll admit that I was little surprised at first that Steve gave the shield to Sam at the end of this one.

For some reason I’ve always assumed that the shield would go to Bucky because of Sebastian’s longer contract and all of the foreshadowing in the Cap Trilogy but thinking about it logically in universe Sam is the better choice. He’s stuck by Cap when he didn’t need to and he’s got a good heart. Plus Bucky’s got enough to deal with and hasn’t he taken up the White Wolf mantle in Wakanda now? It seemed like Bucky and Steve might have already discussed it before Steve went back in time.

I’m looking forward to Sam and Bucky’s Disney+ show though and whether they’re going to expand upon it in that.

 

[saskdw]

Granted they had to wait 5 years since that's how long it took for AntMan/Scott to reappear and give them the idea to and way of how to time travel.
But that also explains why it was suddenly brought up. Scott was quickly trying to figure out a way to fix it, since to him, it was an instant later. So he naturally wouldn't have jumped right in with his idea, and since they others had been trying for years they were ready to pounce on his idea.
So all that works well to me

I also felt like Tony had been working on the time travel thing in secret in his spare time. He didn't just figure it out in a couple days. His conversation with Scott gave him some piece he was missing. Half of him didn't want to change anything so he probably subconsciously slowed his own progress. When the gang came to his place he couldn't handle the guilt anymore.

 

[saskdw]

DH wondered something else.
How was it that only Thanos and his ilk vanished when Tony snapped his fingers?
I told him that as I understood it, the glove sort of (for a really short version of an explanation) does the wearer's bidding.
Thanos wanted to wipe half the world, so he did
Hulk wanted to return the missing, so he did
Tony wanted to wipe Thanos and all, so he did

That is correct the wielder wills the stones to do what they want.

 

[AngiTN]

Yeah, and that's the thing about time travel. Once you have it, the "when" stops mattering. They made it seem like they needed to be very careful about the timeline and all, but they actually completely messed with history by taking objects like Mjolnir from the past and of course some of the people who permanently jumped forward. I mean, best not to think about it, but there are a lot of open doors there - maybe good fodder for future movies!

That is part of the beauty of working with comic book material for our source material. The skies the limit when it comes to what is possible. You aren't limited to realism. Or at least, have a very valid reason for making things fit whatever your agenda is at the moment. You don't have to go far to suspend belief. Not when you are comparing to real world stuff that most other stories are stuck with.

The ramifications of time travel are not hard to accept when you are already accepting big green men or walking and talking trees and rocks.

 

[BrianL]

How’s everyone feeling about Sam!Cap? I know that both Sam and Bucky have taken up the Cap mantle at different times in comics but I’ll admit that I was little surprised at first that Steve gave the shield to Sam at the end of this one.

For some reason I’ve always assumed that the shield would go to Bucky because of Sebastian’s longer contract and all of the foreshadowing in the Cap Trilogy but thinking about it logically in universe Sam is the better choice. He’s stuck by Cap when he didn’t need to and he’s got a good heart. Plus Bucky’s got enough to deal with and hasn’t he taken up the White Wolf mantle in Wakanda now? It seemed like Bucky and Steve might have already discussed it before Steve went back in time.

I’m looking forward to Sam and Bucky’s Disney+ show though and whether they’re going to expand upon it in that.

I think Sam is the better choice as well, in comics and in the films. Bucky was dead in comics for a long time, and had only returned as a villain in relatively recent comics. Falcon has been Cap's on-again/off-again sidekick since the 1970s and a valued member of the Avengers. Quite frankly, he's earned it more than Bucky. I think that what it comes down to for some fans is that the run of Cap comics where Steve died and Bucky took up the mantle was generally regarded as good, where the Falcon-Cap books were a bit weaker. They also felt less "permanent" as Steve was not dead, though one truth in comics is that the character will always come back and reclaim their mantle. Even in the movies a young Steve could come back through time - or old Steve could get another does of serum - or, you know, whatever macguffin they want to use. Not that I think they will do that as the movies do have a sense of closure and moving on - they kind of have to as actors age and stuff - but still.

 

[AngiTN]

How’s everyone feeling about Sam!Cap? I know that both Sam and Bucky have taken up the Cap mantle at different times in comics but I’ll admit that I was little surprised at first that Steve gave the shield to Sam at the end of this one.

For some reason I’ve always assumed that the shield would go to Bucky because of Sebastian’s longer contract and all of the foreshadowing in the Cap Trilogy but thinking about it logically in universe Sam is the better choice. He’s stuck by Cap when he didn’t need to and he’s got a good heart. Plus Bucky’s got enough to deal with and hasn’t he taken up the White Wolf mantle in Wakanda now? It seemed like Bucky and Steve might have already discussed it before Steve went back in time.

I’m looking forward to Sam and Bucky’s Disney+ show though and whether they’re going to expand upon it in that.

Another of our topics of discussion last night.

I think Sam is the better choice as well, in comics and in the films. Bucky was dead in comics for a long time, and had only returned as a villain in relatively recent comics. Falcon has been Cap's on-again/off-again sidekick since the 1970s and a valued member of the Avengers. Quite frankly, he's earned it more than Bucky. I think that what it comes down to for some fans is that the run of Cap comics where Steve died and Bucky took up the mantle was generally regarded as good, where the Falcon-Cap books were a bit weaker. They also felt less "permanent" as Steve was not dead, though one truth in comics is that the character will always come back and reclaim their mantle. Even in the movies a young Steve could come back through time - or old Steve could get another does of serum - or, you know, whatever macguffin they want to use. Not that I think they will do that as the movies do have a sense of closure and moving on - they kind of have to as actors age and stuff - but still.

You and DH had the same take though I personally thought Bucky was the more logical choice as part of his redemption.
I can see how it want to Falcon even if I would have prefered Bucky because of their longer, more historical connection.

Bucky did seem to know/accept/expect it to go to Falcon, based on the look he gave at the end. He nudged Falcon forward, sort of

 

[BrianL]

That is part of the beauty of working with comic book material for our source material. The skies the limit when it comes to what is possible. You aren't limited to realism. Or at least, have a very valid reason for making things fit whatever your agenda is at the moment. You don't have to go far to suspend belief. Not when you are talking about real world stuff that most other stories are stuck with.

The ramifications of time travel are not hard to accept when you are already accepting big green men or talking trees and rocks.

And this is one thing that I love about the Marvel Studios movies compared to a lot of other superhero universes (<cough>DC<cough>), is that they really embrace their comic book roots, even some of the goofy stuff. They just flat-out love what they are and what they are all about. I never would have guessed that they would just go all-in on time travel for this movie like they did, and for a movie with some heavy repercussions it still had some humor too. Some other studios tend to only make their superheroes serious and dark and gritty and, worst of all, <GASP> realistic (ew). It's like they hate comics and everything they always were. Marvel shoots for the stars and just goes for it!

 

[BrianL]

Another of our topics of discussion last night.


You and DH had the same take though I personally thought Bucky was the more logical choice as part of his redemption.
I can see how it want to Falcon even if I would have prefered Bucky because of their longer, more historical connection.

Bucky did seem to know/accept/expect it to go to Falcon, based on the look he gave at the end. He nudged Falcon forward, sort of

And hey, get those Disney+ subscriptions ready, because Falcon & Bucky are getting a series! We can see how it all goes down. Will Sam actually become Captain America? I can't wait to find out as I think they have great chemistry (in Civil War they were awesome - "Can you move your seat up?" "No."

 

[rteetz]

More box office news

https://variety.com/2019/film/news/avengers-endgame-box-office-opening-weekend-1203198950/

 

[AngiTN]

And hey, get those Disney+ subscriptions ready, because Falcon & Bucky are getting a series! We can see how it all goes down. Will Sam actually become Captain America? I can't wait to find out as I think they have great chemistry (in Civil War they were awesome - "Can you move your seat up?" "No."

Oh, without a doubt.
Another reason I wanted Bucky, I like him more than Falcon. I have a thing for the are they bad/are they good characters.
Loki is my FAV! like, best villain in the history of villains (so nice to see him for even a glimmer of time last night) and of course, who doesn't love them some Dead Pool and Punisher (would love to see this show return on Dis+ but I understand it's not likely).

And here I married the textbook definition of a Boy Scout....

 

[ChrisFL]

I did think Falcon went a few movies without really doing much, so it is a bit surprising that he's the one to take up the mantle.

 

[BrianL]

Oh, without a doubt.
Another reason I wanted Bucky, I like him more than Falcon. I have a thing for the are they bad/are they good characters.
Loki is my FAV! like, best villain in the history of villains (so nice to see him for even a glimmer of time last night) and of course, who doesn't love them some Dead Pool and Punisher (would love to see this show return on Dis+ but I understand it's not likely).

And here I married the textbook definition of a Boy Scout....

Yeah, another potential "time issue" is Loki disappearing with the Tesseract! Perhaps that will be addressed in the Loki series coming to the Disney+ service.

I am starting to sound like a commercial for Disney+ now. I swear I'm not a paid spokesperson.

 

[AngiTN]

For those interested, there's an interview coming up this weekend, on Weekend Today (or whatever the name is) with Renner. They filmed it before the release of the movie but after the cast got to see the entire movie so it's fun to see him try to talk around what he couldn't talk about. Especially fun to see him talk about watching it for the first time with the audience. And when/how his daughter figured out he was Hawkeye

 

[BrianL]

For those interested, there's an interview coming up this weekend, on Weekend Today (or whatever the name is) with Renner. They filmed it before the release of the movie but after the cast got to see the entire movie so it's fun to see him try to talk around what he couldn't talk about. Especially fun to see him talk about watching it for the first time with the audience. And when/how his daughter figured out he was Hawkeye

But will he talk about the Hawkeye show coming to D+?

 

[AngiTN]

But will he talk about the Hawkeye show coming to D+?

Good question, it wasn't covered in the partial they ran this morning.
Guess it depends on how much they are allowed to say yet.
I mean, we've all seen the list of things to come but not a lot else

 

[galaxygirl76]

Yeah, another potential "time issue" is Loki disappearing with the Tesseract! Perhaps that will be addressed in the Loki series coming to the Disney+ service.

I am starting to sound like a commercial for Disney+ now. I swear I'm not a paid spokesperson.

I'm so confused about the Loki part. Steve brought the stones back where they came from at the end so the Loki thing still changed the past, didn't it? If that got changed, the events in Thor 2 must have changed too.

My brain hurts.

Eta, I think Mjolnir went back to Asgard in its correct place in time, Steve had it when he left with the Stones.

 

[whiporee]

I wonder what Steve Rogers did all those years -- what kind of job he got, whether he and Peggy had kids, whatever. Not sure how the shield got put back together -- it looked like Thanos had trashed it pretty well.

I was sad to see Tony go, but he started it all, so I can't complain about it.

I expected Carol to play a bigger role in everything -- the last act was exciting, but it felt wayyyy too cluttered. I know we all wanted to see everyone back together, but it was just a big cluster of fighting. I liked the imagery of the collection of women coming together to get the gauntlet to Ant Man, but I'mnit sure what the point was other than giving the world a new GIF.

it seems to be selling Spider-man as the new center of the MCU. That's fitting, I think, given the character's role in creating the Marvel Comics success over the years. I am hoping that the Fox acquisition might allow the Fantastic Four and X-Men to be thrown into this as well. I don't care about a big fight or anything, but there people running there MCU movies have done a much better job with the characters than Sony and Fox, so I'd like to see them give those characters a run.

Gonna be confusing with all these people missing out on five years.

One last thing -- I left after the signature credits. Was there another teaser after that?

 

[BrianL]

One last thing -- I left after the signature credits. Was there another teaser after that?

No additional scenes after the credits, just the sound of a hammer striking metal, presumably the sound of the Iron Man armor being made. I left before this too as I had heard there was nothing.

 

[always]

What did everyone think of the sort of female empowerment moment?

It's the only part of the movie that made me tear up.