Obama's Speech

[DisneyDotty]

If the economy gets worse, racisim will get worse....

Wise words, indeed.

(Thanks for your perspective. I'm still mulling the whole Obama/Wright thing over... I desperately want change in our government and was so hoping Obama could be that voice of real change, but now have concerns...OTOH, I did so like the 90's... )

 

[mickman1962]

So Wright's church has been involved in lynching white people have they? Burning crosses perhaps?

Please give us a side by side comparisons of the similar actions done by this church and by the KKK so that your comparison will work.

You're correct, all I needed was this

My issue isn’t about whether or not people can be basically good people, and still do awful things. I already know that. My problem is that, IF Obama is really committed to the things he says, then he has an OBLIGATION to take a stand against things that fly in the face of his basic beliefs and moral standards. The fact that he either can’t or won’t…time and time again…is a BIG BIG problem for me personally.

Do I think he’s a vicious racist? No. Do I think he’s took a stand against hate speech, bigotry, racism? No. And if you can’t bring yourself to take ACTION to make a situation better, what gives you the right to make grand speeches about it?

Careful, you might spill your Kool-Aid

 

[chobie]

You're correct, all I needed was this

My issue isn’t about whether or not people can be basically good people, and still do awful things. I already know that. My problem is that, IF Obama is really committed to the things he says, then he has an OBLIGATION to take a stand against things that fly in the face of his basic beliefs and moral standards. The fact that he either can’t or won’t…time and time again…is a BIG BIG problem for me personally.

Do I think he’s a vicious racist? No. Do I think he’s took a stand against hate speech, bigotry, racism? No. And if you can’t bring yourself to take ACTION to make a situation better, what gives you the right to make grand speeches about it?

Careful, you might spill your Kool-Aid

I'm correct that your KKK comparison was specious?

As for your Kool-Aid joke, how original.

 

[lilyv]

You're correct, all I needed was this

My issue isn’t about whether or not people can be basically good people, and still do awful things. I already know that. My problem is that, IF Obama is really committed to the things he says, then he has an OBLIGATION to take a stand against things that fly in the face of his basic beliefs and moral standards. The fact that he either can’t or won’t…time and time again…is a BIG BIG problem for me personally.

Do I think he’s a vicious racist? No. Do I think he’s took a stand against hate speech, bigotry, racism? No. And if you can’t bring yourself to take ACTION to make a situation better, what gives you the right to make grand speeches about it?

Careful, you might spill your Kool-Aid

I appreciate the offer, but I'll let you enjoy the whole pitcher to yourself.

 

[Southern4sure]

All your link says is that there is crime in Mobile. Prichard is a city, not part of Mobile. Do you have comparisons on crime figures before there was a black mayor?

You didn't catch my meaning, it was not a black or white issued post....I was never a fan of Sam Jones even before he became Mayor and I sure won't sing his praises now. Crime in Mobile is at a high right now whether the mayor is black or white.

ETA: I was born and raised in Mobile and left after 38 years so I do have some knowledge of my hometown. I've only been gone 3 years. That's Mobile Bay in the background of my sig pic.

 

[mickman1962]

I'm correct that your KKK comparison was specious?

As for your Kool-Aid joke, how original.

Specious, no. Superfluous, yes.

 

[lovetomow]

I'm correct that your KKK comparison was specious?

As for your Kool-Aid joke, how original.

Which flavor Kool-Aid is you favorite at the moment!

 

[chobie]

Specious, no. Superfluous, yes.

Ok, so now tell me what things the KKK has done and what things that pastor Wright's church has done, or even advocated doing so that you could have used the KKK analogy even if it was not necessary to make your point.

Let's start with lynching...

 

[DISUNC]

Wise words, indeed.

(Thanks for your perspective. I'm still mulling the whole Obama/Wright thing over... I desperately want change in our government and was so hoping Obama could be that voice of real change, but now have concerns...OTOH, I did so like the 90's... )

OT

The 90's were nice. Hey I was even laid off in the 90's due to a Corporate merger. The difference then was, I knew 9 months in advance, and walk out the last day with a Years Salary...and a new job to go too! Life was more humane then.

We had the greatest change in Government during this administration....so much for the 'Change" perspective!

Just getting rid of the current admin is a GREAT CHANGE for me. As for McCain..........I will weigh his strengths & weaknesses after the Democrats have a nominee.

 

[chris1gill]

Tom Daschle was just on MSNBC and said today's speech was written entirely by Obama against the wishes of his top talking heads, it was that important to him to tell what is his story....

Now, just argue amongst yourselve's...

 

[lilyv]

Tom Daschle was just on MSNBC and said today's speech was written entirely by Obama against the wishes of his top talking heads, it was that important to him to tell what is his story....

Now, just argue amongst yourselve's...

Doesn't surprise me. I am glad he's OK with talking openly with the American folks. He's not a "let me poll that first" kind of guy.

 

[mickman1962]

Ok, so now tell me what things the KKK has done and what things that pastor Wright's church has done, or even advocated doing so that you could have used the KKK analogy even if it was not necessary to make your point.

Let's start with lynching...

And does the KKK still lynch? They did many years ago, it was a different era in our Nation. Now, they do exactly what he does, they congregate and they preach hate and racist rhetoric. Why is it so hard for you to say, yea that guy and that "church" are racist? I would think much better of you if you did, because there is no debate, that is a hate mongering cult of a "church"

 

[luvmy3]

What was his side of the story? I didn't get answers about why he is so close to this man. Okay maybe 30 years ago his preachings were different but its not like Obama didn't see the change. He still calls the man uncle, he still had him baptize his child and he still financially supported the church in which this pastor spewed his hate. He never explained why he kept this relationship with this man, as an American and a registered voter thats what I wanted to know. I didn't want to hear what he disagrees with, I wanted to hear what this man preaches now that he does agree with.

 

[chobie]

And does the KKK still lynch? They did many years ago, it was a different era in our Nation. Now, they do exactly what he does, they congregate and they preach hate and racist rhetoric. Why is it so hard for you to say, yea that guy and that "church" are racist? I would think much better of you if you did, because there is no debate, that is a hate mongering cult of a "church"

What makes you think I care about what you think of me?

I know that the preacher said some horrible things. That's it. I don't think what I heard was racist because I did not hear him say that the blacks are better and that white people should be oppressed etc.

I certianly don't know enough about what all this church is about to declare it racist.

I do know a lot about the KKK's history.

So tell me some more about what this church stands for and what they have done so I can determine whether they are racist because I will not make that conclusion based on some comments from this retired preacher.

 

[va32h]

What was his side of the story? I didn't get answers about why he is so close to this man. Okay maybe 30 years ago his preachings were different but its not like Obama didn't see the change. He still calls the man uncle, he still had him baptize his child and he still financially supported the church in which this pastor spewed his hate. He never explained why he kept this relationship with this man, as an American and a registered voter thats what I wanted to know. I didn't want to hear what he disagrees with, I wanted to hear what this man preaches now that he does agree with.

Have you never loved anyone who held beliefs you found repugnant?

My grandmother was rabidly racist. Her father was in the KKK. Both my parents profess beliefs (about immigration, homosexuality and race) that I strongly disagree with.

But they are my family and I do love them (my grandmother is deceased). And I respect them - even if I do not respect their beliefs. I also believe that part of their mindset comes from their age, their generation, the way they were raised. Which is not an excuse, but a reason.

My brother married a black woman and their two children self-identify as black. In the nearly two-decades since my brother's marriage, I have seen my parents' attitude about race change. It is no longer "us vs. them" because the "them" is now a part of our family. People can change. And I'm glad that my brother and I didn't turn our backs on our parents, that we loved them and maintained a relationship with them that contributed to their change of feelings.

But change doesn't happen overnight. A year or so ago I posted a thread about my daughter yelling at my father when he made a disparaging remark about people who do not speak English. I admired my daughter for her passionate defense of her views but I reprimanded her for addressing her grandfather in such a rude way. We can disagree - vehemently - with the people that we love. It does not mean we have to reject them wholesale.

 

[DisneyDotty]

va32h:

 

[Chloe'sMom]

Say what you want... the fact that Obama chose this guy as his pastor evidences a lack of political savvy and forethought that is necessary to be president.

He had to know what this guy was talking about if he went to church as often as he says he did.

He probably went to this church in the effort to increase his appeal to the inner-city Chicago voting block. Now, that he has to cater to a wider range of people, the choice has backfired.

emphasis mine.

I don't know - can we hold someone accountable for the actions of another? So if 20 years from now I decide to run for President am I going to be accountable for the fact that the Priest who was suppose to marry us was found guilty of sexual molestation of a child? Will I then be considered a criminal through association?

Not directed only at the poster -

I have been avoiding this topic - because I am conflicted about my feelings on it. There is a certain sense of accountability that comes with someone you are affilitated with - but how much is to much?

The other day when I mentioned that McCain really didn't scare me if he was elected someone sent me a link showing all these religious people who have come out in support of McCain who I have many disagreements with. Now others talking about that post are wanting to completely write off Obama's preacher - but we can't have it both ways. We can't ignore one, while wanting accountability for the other.

Like I said - I've been avoiding the topic as I really haven't made up my mind on it. I don't like what the preacher said - but I've never gotten the vibe from Obama that he shares these feelings. So again - how accountable can we make someone for the actions of another?

As of right now my vote hasn't changed - but then again I'm still waiting to find out who the DNC nominee is even going to be!

~Amanda

 

[DawnCt1]

Say what you want... the fact that Obama chose this guy as his pastor evidences a lack of political savvy and forethought that is necessary to be president.

He had to know what this guy was talking about if he went to church as often as he says he did.

He probably went to this church in the effort to increase his appeal to the inner-city Chicago voting block. Now, that he has to cater to a wider range of people, the choice has backfired.

I agree. It also points to judgement. It is obvious that Wright's views were foreign to him and yet it was only after the media took note that he chose to separate himself from him.

 

[DawnCt1]

emphasis mine.

I don't know - can we hold someone accountable for the actions of another? So if 20 years from now I decide to run for President am I going to be accountable for the fact that the Priest who was suppose to marry us was found guilty of sexual molestation of a child? Will I then be considered a criminal through association?



~Amanda

You can't compare secretive, private, criminal behavior on the part of a priest to 20 years of sitting in a church, listening to animated, hateful, racist and anti American rhetoric which are out on DVD for a price.

 

[luvmy3]

Have you never loved anyone who held beliefs you found repugnant?

My grandmother was rabidly racist. Her father was in the KKK. Both my parents profess beliefs (about immigration, homosexuality and race) that I strongly disagree with.

But they are my family and I do love them (my grandmother is deceased). And I respect them - even if I do not respect their beliefs. I also believe that part of their mindset comes from their age, their generation, the way they were raised. Which is not an excuse, but a reason.

My brother married a black woman and their two children self-identify as black. In the nearly two-decades since my brother's marriage, I have seen my parents' attitude about race change. It is no longer "us vs. them" because the "them" is now a part of our family. People can change. And I'm glad that my brother and I didn't turn our backs on our parents, that we loved them and maintained a relationship with them that contributed to their change of feelings.

But change doesn't happen overnight. A year or so ago I posted a thread about my daughter yelling at my father when he made a disparaging remark about people who do not speak English. I admired my daughter for her passionate defense of her views but I reprimanded her for addressing her grandfather in such a rude way. We can disagree - vehemently - with the people that we love. It does not mean we have to reject them wholesale.

I never said that I believe Obama feels the same as Wright. I just wanted to hear him tell me what it is about this man that makes Obama consider him like family. I don't think that is too much to expect from a man who want to run our country.