ObamaCare Info

I'll retell my dentist story. I went to one out of network and the prices were getting out of hand.
I switched to 2 different dentists in-network. I received the worst dental care I had ever received in my life from those 2.
I went running back to out of network and happily paid the difference.
 
Because that one charge was almost a 90% write-off in no way means they have that large a write-off on all of their other charges. Yes, there are huge write-offs, but not to that extent.

Government reimbursements are the lowest out there, and hospitals and doctors will now be strong-armed into taking those levels from more and more compaines. The private insurance companies have never been able to get as low a discount as the government because the hospitals and doctors need to recoup those losses in the form of higher costs from private insurance.

That is why so many doctors near retirement have said they will go ahead and retire. And why so many of our country's best and brightest are now second guessing whether it is worth the time, effort and cost involved to become a doctor.

All I can do at this point is cross my fingers that my husband's policy through work doesn't get dumped like so many other companies have done already. My doctor already told me they are not taking patients from the exchanges.

It isn't just one bill. My DD has a rare genetic disease and I have drawers full of EOBs. Every single one has a PPO discount of at least 50%. The bill for her last wheelchair (manual, not power) was over $13,000. After the PPO discount it was less than $4,000.

Long before the ACA doctors, hospitals, medical professionals have been over inflating their bills because they know that they will be cut down by insurance companies.


I'll retell my dentist story. I went to one out of network and the prices were getting out of hand.
I switched to 2 different dentists in-network. I received the worst dental care I had ever received in my life from those 2.
I went running back to out of network and happily paid the difference.

There are bad doctors everywhere. My DD almost died at the hands of an ophthalmologist that is still the chief of the department at a major children's hospital in Chicago.
 
It isn't just one bill. My DD has a rare genetic disease and I have drawers full of EOBs. Every single one has a PPO discount of at least 50%. The bill for her last wheelchair (manual, not power) was over $13,000. After the PPO discount it was less than $4,000.

Long before the ACA doctors, hospitals, medical professionals have been over inflating their bills because they know that they will be cut down by insurance companies.

Yes, 50% is about average. I don't consider that to be a huge discount in the world of managed care. But that's a far cry from the 90% example you quoted.

Government discounts are much steeper than 50% and hospitals and doctors will be expected to take the much steeper discounts.
 
For those who think the docs and care you receive on ObamaCare will be quality , time to wake up.

You don't seem to understand that 'ObamaCare' is just buying a standard insurance policy.

You get the same docs... the same quality... as anyone that now currently has insurance.

You really should find better sources of information about what 'ObamaCare' is before going out and spreading a bunch of misinformation about it.
 

Government discounts are much steeper than 50% and hospitals and doctors will be expected to take the much steeper discounts.

On the exchanges you are just buying insurance. There are no 'government discounts' or 'government reimbursements'

Once you have the policy government is not involved.

If there turns out to be doctor shortages like some people worry about then doctors will be able to force smaller discounts.
 
Govt control/ Free market. These Dr's already take a huge hit with the insurance companies. The money paid to them won't justify the time and effort that it takes to become a good physician. Sure it will take the same amount of time, but if there is no competition, why bother to be the best. And don't tell me pride. That goes out the window when you are working 24 hours and/or on call all the time.
I would hope that the doctors that are treating me are doing so out of a "calling" and not because thought medical school was a golden ticket to a week at concierge at the Grand Floridian. Frankly, any doctor who is in it for the money might think about changing careers and becoming an investment banker.
 
You don't seem to understand that 'ObamaCare' is just buying a standard insurance policy.

You get the same docs... the same quality... as anyone that now currently has insurance.

You really should find better sources of information about what 'ObamaCare' is before going out and spreading a bunch of misinformation about it.

No, you only get the doctors WILLING to be part of one of those plans. Those would be the doctors willing to do the job for less money.

I already know that if I end up in an exchange offered plan, I will be searching for a new doctor since mine will not participate. If put into a position where that's the only option for keeping her patients, she will retire. Doctors by their nature are generally not stupid people.

And many posters are trying to point out the larger picture. Becoming a doctor requires years of intense and expensive training. Force them to take less money and the best and the brightest are gong to decide it's not worth it. So the pool of new doctors you get will of a lesser quality.

On the exchanges you are just buying insurance. There are no 'government discounts' or 'government reimbursements'

Once you have the policy government is not involved.

If there turns out to be doctor shortages like some people worry about then doctors will be able to force smaller discounts.

No, that's not true at all. You get the discounts associated the plan you are in, not company. You could have a plan through the VERY SAME insurance company you had before and the discounts could be substantially different.

My husband and 2 sons are currently searching for a new doctor because our insurance changed early in the summer. We are still insured through the same company, but their doctor chose not to be part of this particular network, even though it is through the same company. My husband has been seeing him for years and was very disappointed, so asked the doctor if he would consider joining this other network. The doctor said he could not accept the lower reimbursements required to be part of that plan.
 
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My daughter is now in her second year of med school. From her vantage point, here are the problems we are going to be facing in the very near future:

An aging population with the healthcare needs that place a strain on government-paid insurances.

Medical students declining to enter family practice or general medicine because of the lower reimbursement for their time.

Additional people with "pay for everything free" insurance and no increase in the number of physicians to address their needs.

Longer waits to see a doctor because of their limited numbers. Conversely, non-MDs will be performing the tasks normally done by physicians, leaving the door open for misdiagnosis and missing some patients' problems.

My daughter just attended a practice management class. Over and over, they are being advised to invest in a second business in order to pay their bills. They're being told that medicine will not be enough to make a decent living based on the amount of time and money they will put into it.
 
Doctors and hospitals are already accepting huge deductions from insurance companies. I just pulled out an EOB for my DD. She had RSV a few months ago. The lab tests from the hospital were $850.00. Because we have a BC/BS PPO, the eligible charge amount was only $100. Insurance paid $80, we paid $20 and the hospital deducted $750. Because we have insurance, they were happy to discount the bill almost 90%

And meanwhile, uninsured patients pay more because no one is negotiating on their behalf. We have had the same doctor for the kids through several insurance plans and it aggravates me to no end. $125 for an office visit is paid at $60 by BCBS, but when we go in without insurance we're billed the full $125 minus only a 10% 'cash' discount. And don't tell me that's because they know the insurance will pay while they're taking a risk on uninsured patients - we have to pay before we're seen.
 
And meanwhile, uninsured patients pay more because no one is negotiating on their behalf. We have had the same doctor for the kids through several insurance plans and it aggravates me to no end. $125 for an office visit is paid at $60 by BCBS, but when we go in without insurance we're billed the full $125 minus only a 10% 'cash' discount. And don't tell me that's because they know the insurance will pay while they're taking a risk on uninsured patients - we have to pay before we're seen.

What most people don't realize is that one of the greatest benefits of having an insurance plan is the discounts they negotiated on your behalf. We are meticulous about checking benefits before receiving a service because if we end up out of network, we lose not only the higher level of coverage, but the negotiated promise from the provider to write off any amount over the negotiated rate.

And providers need to recoup wherever they can....... to make up for the ones on a government sponsored plan (medicare, medicaid currently, soon to be many more) paying at such a low level.
 
And meanwhile, uninsured patients pay more because no one is negotiating on their behalf. We have had the same doctor for the kids through several insurance plans and it aggravates me to no end. $125 for an office visit is paid at $60 by BCBS, but when we go in without insurance we're billed the full $125 minus only a 10% 'cash' discount. And don't tell me that's because they know the insurance will pay while they're taking a risk on uninsured patients - we have to pay before we're seen.
It's part of the physician's contract with the insurance companies. He *must* collect the full, "usual and customary fee" from patients who do not have insurance. He cannot legally charge you the same price that the insurance company has negotiated with him. There's a reason that they have the doctors on their panels sign a contract and renew every year. He is legally bound to charge you that price.

You can get angry about it but direct your anger where it belongs - with the insurance industry. That's the same industry that helped to write Obamacare with the hopes that by forcing everyone (especially the healthy, under 30's who rarely need more than an annual physical) to buy insurance, they would increase their profits.
 
My daughter is now in her second year of med school. From her vantage point, here are the problems we are going to be facing in the very near future:

An aging population with the healthcare needs that place a strain on government-paid insurances.

This strain is very real but is happening regardless of the ACA as the proverbial mouse moves down the snake. The population segment causing it, i.e. the baby boomers, will be primarily covered by Medicare and the solution to that, aside from continuing to cut reimbursements, is higher FICA taxes, as there is no other way for Medicare to pay for more people with the same amount of revenue.

Medical students declining to enter family practice or general medicine because of the lower reimbursement for their time.

Aspiring doctors desiring higher incomes have always eschewed general medicine in favor of the specialties. Family medicine, pediatrics, etc. have always been a "calling" more akin to teaching. General medicine can be covered more inexpensively and efficiently in other ways.

Additional people with "pay for everything free" insurance and no increase in the number of physicians to address their needs.

That is a function of the number of residency slots available in this country, as every medical school is full and turning out as many doctors as they can. Another solution is to increase the usage of NPs and PAs for routine care, which would allow the more highly trained physicians to focus on specialty care, where their training is needed, but that would require doctors to allow a reduction in their monopoly on patient care.

Longer waits to see a doctor because of their limited numbers. Conversely, non-MDs will be performing the tasks normally done by physicians, leaving the door open for misdiagnosis and missing some patients' problems.

Again, that is not wholly accurate, but any doctor shortages are a result of a bottleneck in physician education as there are no unfilled residency slots in this country. As for allowing NPs, PAs and other allied health professionals to deliver routine care, that is both a cost efficient way of delivering care and a way of reducing patient caseload. On a related note, can you cite any evidence that there is a higher rate of misdiagnosis of routine care by NPs and PAs than by MDs or DOs?

My daughter just attended a practice management class. Over and over, they are being advised to invest in a second business in order to pay their bills. They're being told that medicine will not be enough to make a decent living based on the amount of time and money they will put into it.

That has been the way for a long time, for many reasons. One of the most significant is that doctors are notoriously bad with money and generally horrific savers, coupled with the fact that they generally don't have any significant equity as a medical practice is not generally a valuable asset that can be liquidated at retirement. I work in finance and was also taught to diversify my assets and income stream, and I see that education for your daughter as a good thing, not a negative thing.

My thoughts in red above. While I do have empathy for your daughter's concerns, they are not new concerns and nor are they solely, or even primarily in most cases, a result of the ACA. The issues do need to be addressed, but globally and not in a vacuum.

Good luck to your daughter!
 
I would hope that the doctors that are treating me are doing so out of a "calling" and not because thought medical school was a golden ticket to a week at concierge at the Grand Floridian. Frankly, any doctor who is in it for the money might think about changing careers and becoming an investment banker.

YOu must not be around many Drs. Most of them love helping people, but at what cost? In the future, it won't be worth it. There will be other fields where they can make the same or more money without all the hours and without all the risk involved. Again, "will the juice be worth the squeeze" most likely NOT.

Lets not forget what medical school costs. They have to be able to pay off those debts. Oh and Malpractice insurance, which for OB/GYNS is huge.
 
YOu must not be around many Drs. Most of them love helping people, but at what cost? In the future, it won't be worth it. There will be other fields where they can make the same or more money without all the hours and without all the risk involved. Again, "will the juice be worth the squeeze" most likely NOT.

Lets not forget what medical school costs. They have to be able to pay off those debts.

Well maybe it's time for us to offer some loan forgiveness in exchange for certain types of service?
 
No, you only get the doctors WILLING to be part of one of those plans. Those would be the doctors willing to do the job for less money.

I already know that if I end up in an exchange offered plan, I will be searching for a new doctor since mine will not participate. If put into a position where that's the only option for keeping her patients, she will retire. Doctors by their nature are generally not stupid people.

And many posters are trying to point out the larger picture. Becoming a doctor requires years of intense and expensive training. Force them to take less money and the best and the brightest are gong to decide it's not worth it. So the pool of new doctors you get will of a lesser quality.



No, that's not true at all. You get the discounts associated the plan you are in, not company. You could have a plan through the VERY SAME insurance company you had before and the discounts could be substantially different.

My husband and 2 sons are currently searching for a new doctor because our insurance changed early in the summer. We are still insured through the same company, but their doctor chose not to be part of this particular network, even though it is through the same company. My husband has been seeing him for years and was very disappointed, so asked the doctor if he would consider joining this other network. The doctor said he could not accept the lower reimbursements required to be part of that plan.

In reality, you're both partly true in your assessment. Technically there it is not a "government network" but some insurance companies are creating new networks in response to government exchanges. But that is at least somewhat dependent on the company. Where I live.

Anthem as created a "select network" of Doctors and hospitals to support the individual market both on and off the exchange. (The government requires pooling both groups for premium purposes).

Medical Mutual on the other hand is currently keeping the network of Dr. and hospitals they currently use for their . Their premiums are more expensive but you've got a larger network.


So, depending on what state you live in and how the state organized the exchanges, your Dr. may be in network, but it might not be in the cheapest plans.
 
My thoughts in red above. While I do have empathy for your daughter's concerns, they are not new concerns and nor are they solely, or even primarily in most cases, a result of the ACA. The issues do need to be addressed, but globally and not in a vacuum.

Good luck to your daughter!
I didn't say that these problems were solely due to Obamacare, but they certainly were not addressed by it either. If anything, Obamacare has exacerbated those problems. Affordable healthcare is one thing. Accessibility is another problem. And on top of that, the quality of what we will be getting is also being called into question. The best of the best do not go into teaching math and science because they can make better money in industry. Do we really want the same to happen with medicine?
 
In looking for information on Healthcare reform I came across an article on Forbes website titled Obamacare's Next Shoe To Drop: People Buying Coverage On The Exchanges May Owe More Money Than They're Being Told It reveals 2 areas where people may end up owing more money than they expect under an exchange plan.

To summarize, First, healthcare.gov seems to have a problem with calculating the subsidy the person is eligible to receive. If too large of a subsidy is received at least a portion of it will need to be repaid when 2015 taxes are due.

Second, and the article feels potentially more troubling, is a problem with the cost sharing subsidies. Cost sharing subsidies are designed to reduce the copayment, deductible, and out of pocket maximums for low income individuals that purchase a silver plan. The problem is the administration agreed to include these subsidies in the list of items cut as a result of sequestration but haven't factored the cuts into their numbers. As a result, the author believes, either consumers won't get as big of a subsidy as promised, ie $20 copay is really $25, or insurance companies will be forced to eat the loss.
 
YOu must not be around many Drs. Most of them love helping people, but at what cost? In the future, it won't be worth it. There will be other fields where they can make the same or more money without all the hours and without all the risk involved. Again, "will the juice be worth the squeeze" most likely NOT.

Lets not forget what medical school costs. They have to be able to pay off those debts. Oh and Malpractice insurance, which for OB/GYNS is huge.
Medical school costs and the indentured servitude of college students is a whole 'nother thread!

Well maybe it's time for us to offer some loan forgiveness in exchange for certain types of service?

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Yes, 50% is about average. I don't consider that to be a huge discount in the world of managed care. But that's a far cry from the 90% example you quoted.

Government discounts are much steeper than 50% and hospitals and doctors will be expected to take the much steeper discounts.


I pulled out the top 5 EOBs from the drawer.


Hospital ER--billed $1,723.50 Eligible Charge $389.52
Lab Tests--billed $258.00 Eligible Charge $85.50
Radiologist--billed $80.00 Eligible Charge $15.00
Pediatrician --billed $416.00 Eligible Charge $190.00
New seat for DD's wheelchair--billed $3708.22 Eligible Charge $790.97 (some of the line items billed at over $3,000 of the line items repriced to ZERO)

As you can see, the discounts average much higher than 50%
These are with a BC/BS PPO and just about every doctor and hospital in the Chicago area participate in our plan.
 
And meanwhile, uninsured patients pay more because no one is negotiating on their behalf. We have had the same doctor for the kids through several insurance plans and it aggravates me to no end. $125 for an office visit is paid at $60 by BCBS, but when we go in without insurance we're billed the full $125 minus only a 10% 'cash' discount. And don't tell me that's because they know the insurance will pay while they're taking a risk on uninsured patients - we have to pay before we're seen.

This varies from dr to dr. Our family dr charges us as cash pay exactly what they get from insurance. $65 for a basic visit and $85 for a complicated one. $25 for basic blood work and exactly what insurance pays for other various bloodwork. Plus she tells us up front how much certain tests cost and whether she feels they are must dos or things she would prefer we do. And we don't pay upfront, we pay after the visit.

Even pharmacies have given us contracted rates on RX. We shopped around to pharmacies to find ones that were reasonable.
 














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