Obama supporters! - A positive place to talk about his campaign

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Good riddance to bad rubbish! It's people like Penn that may cause people like me to drop out of the Democratic party.



...or day two...or day three...or day four...or.....

:lmao:

Did you see Shrillary on the Tonight Show last week, joking about coming under sniper fire? Was it just me, or was anybody else startlingly reminded of Shrub looking under the chairs for WMD's at the White House correspondents dinner? :sad2:

What the hell is she doing making a joke about it? Does she think that makes it charming or funny? She just reminded people she makes stuff up. :confused3
 
Just thought of a good tagline for Penn and Clinton:

Marc Penn's message wasn't ready on day one. :lmao:
Maybe Penn and Clinton were working on a great plan for the Columbian worker.

"Hillary Clinton. Prepared to export your job to Columbia on day one.":laughing:
 
FANTASTIC Newsweek article from KOS:

http://www.newsweek.com/id/130606

This is just the beginning of the article. He goes on to describe how Hillary staying in the race is a good thing, which I still disagree with, but will concede that he makes some good points:

Hillary Clinton has proved during the past few months that she is a fighter, that she is tenacious, and that she is in the race to win. There's just one problem. She's already lost.

No matter how you define victory, Barack Obama holds an insurmountable lead in the race to earn the Democratic nomination. He leads in the one metric that matters most: the pledged delegates chosen directly by Democratic voters. But he also leads in the popular vote, the number of states won and money raised. Still, Obama's advantages aren't large enough to allow him an outright victory. He needs the 20 percent of party delegates who aren't bound to a candidate. It's with these superdelegates that Clinton has staked her ephemeral chances.

Clinton's near-lone chance of victory rests with a coup by superdelegate, persuading enough of them to overcome the primary voters' preference. Yet a coup by elite Democrats would be ill-received, to put it mildly. Obama's base spans the party's most loyal and engaged constituencies: African-Americans, professionals who generate hundreds of millions in small-dollar donations and a conventional-wisdom-defying outpouring of youth support.

If Obama lost at the polling booth, these supporters would accept the voters' verdict and carry on. Many, including those who backed Howard Dean's heartbreaking 2004 campaign, have been through such disappointment before. But if Beltway bigwigs steal a hard-won victory, it would amount to a declaration of civil war. Not only would the resolve of thousands of loyal foot soldiers and the party's new fund-raising base be irrevocably shaken, but it would torpedo the opportunity to build and strengthen a new generation of Democrats.

Clinton's best-case scenario for victory requires sundering her own party. It is an inherently divisive strategy, but she doesn't appear to care. For Clinton, all's fair in pursuit of victory—even destroying her party from within. Her campaign has adopted a bizarre "insult-40-states strategy," which has belittled states small, liberal and Red. Apparently, the only states that matter are the ones she coincidentally happens to win.

The Clinton campaign once justified efforts to foster a superdelegate insurrection by suggesting that she could regain the popular-vote lead in the remaining contests. But as her chances of pulling off that feat dwindle, even that argument is falling by the wayside. In an interview with TPM Election Central, top campaign adviser Harold Ickes said: "I think being ahead in the popular vote is an important factor. I don't think it's dispositive." But when the popular vote, delegates earned and states won aren't dispositive, no rationale remains for her destructive coup attempt. Clinton, unfortunately, is pretending not to notice. So at the moment, it's useless to demand she exit the race. If logic, math, appeals to party unity and the evaporation of undecided superdelegates won't sway her, nothing will.
 

Latest polling-PA-all tied up.
Obama 45%
Clinton 45%

Good news especially when you compare previous weeks in link.

http://americanresearchgroup.com/

It's still way early, BUT if Obama somehow pulls out a win in PA, the pressure will start amping up that much more on Hillary to drop out. If she can't even win a state that is practically custom built for her with both the state's governor and one of it's most outspoken senators and with a scandal involving Obama's preacher being replayed on the news for two weeks straight...even the most adamant supporter would have to admit that she is done at that point, wouldn't they?
 
Has everyone heard Bush will be giving a speech from the Oval office regarding the Columbian Free Trade Agreement?

If he passes this agreement, go back, read what was written and start contacting your representatives, your senators, the American People need to realize what exactly the Columbian worker has to live with....

As for the PA numbers, I wouldn't put too much stock in winning, but if we can keep it to a single digit loss we would be quite golden, every percentage point counts. If Obama wins PA? Clinton will be in huge trouble....

We've gotten another Super, a Montana State Rep. and also another Add on from North Dakota...
 
Has everyone heard Bush will be giving a speech from the Oval office regarding the Columbian Free Trade Agreement?

If he passes this agreement, go back, read what was written and start contacting your representatives, your senators, the American People need to realize what exactly the Columbian worker has to live with....

As for the PA numbers, I wouldn't put too much stock in winning, but if we can keep it to a single digit loss we would be quite golden, every percentage point counts. If Obama wins PA? Clinton will be in huge trouble....

We've gotten another Super, a Montana State Rep. and also another Add on from North Dakota...

If Hillary wins PA by 1 vote, she'll be screaming how electable she is and how she can win "the big one". Forget those other losses: PA is "the big one". :lmao:

Hillary will never drop out. She's in the "delusional zone". I think she shares a table with Dubya.
 
It's still way early, BUT if Obama somehow pulls out a win in PA, the pressure will start amping up that much more on Hillary to drop out. If she can't even win a state that is practically custom built for her with both the state's governor and one of it's most outspoken senators and with a scandal involving Obama's preacher being replayed on the news for two weeks straight...even the most adamant supporter would have to admit that she is done at that point, wouldn't they?


You'd think. But this is Hillary and Bill Clinton we're talking about here and they feel they can pull rabbits out of hats. Their 'most adamant supporter' may think so as well, until hell freezes over. :confused3
 
I'm wondering how much do you guys believe that American research poll showing Obama and Clinton tied at 45%?

Obama's campaign seemed to acknowledge the uphill battle with PA and wanted to keep it within single digits.

Trying to be realistic here, but is it really possible that he's drawn even with her all across PA?
 
I'm wondering how much do you guys believe that American research poll showing Obama and Clinton tied at 45%?

Obama's campaign seemed to acknowledge the uphill battle with PA and wanted to keep it within single digits.

Trying to be realistic here, but is it really possible that he's drawn even with her all across PA?

Personally, I think the last 9% difference polled was more realistic.... I don't think pulling even is possible, but god knows I've been wrong before... I'll expect a single digit loss... and if by some miracle we win by a single digit, well I will be delighted.....

What's surprising is that Indiana IS dead even....
 
Personally, I think the last 9% difference polled was more realistic.... I don't think pulling even is possible, but god knows I've been wrong before... I'll expect a single digit loss... and if by some miracle we win by a single digit, well I will be delighted.....

What's surprising is that Indiana IS dead even....

Do you think any of the recent bad headlines for Hillary may cause Obama to squeak out a win in Pa? Because it just seems like Hill hasn't had any good news lately. For example, today she had Mark Penn resign and the "miss-speak" regarding a story she told about an Ohio woman and her health insurance. I am thinking maybe these kind of problems may erode her lead in Pa. I live outside of Philly and I see a lot more Obama commercials on TV and radio than Hillary....maybe since we still have 2 weeks to go Obama can pull this off....maybe I am just a dreamer, but I think he can do it!!!:thumbsup2
 
I think Obama will be happy with anything other than a double digit loss in PA. A win would be wonderful, but a close loss still is good for him.

It has been all bad news for Hillary of late, but I'm not doing any rejoicing. I'm not happy to see what's happened with her campaign, because I truly believe that she is an excellent Senator and would have made a very good President.

We've got a LONG way to go to November and Obama could very well have some bad days ahead as well.
 
I think Obama will be happy with anything other than a double digit loss in PA. A win would be wonderful, but a close loss still is good for him.

It has been all bad news for Hillary of late, but I'm not doing any rejoicing. I'm not happy to see what's happened with her campaign, because I truly believe that she is an excellent Senator and would have made a very good President.

We've got a LONG way to go to November and Obama could very well have some bad days ahead as well.

I am not rejoicing over Hillary's missteps lately, however, I really want this to end and it seems she won't budge, so maybe the mistakes made by her and her campaign will lead her to decide to drop out. And politics the way they are will have many bad days ahead for Obama, but can we please just get one candidate so we,as democrats, can get back together and rallying around one candidate?
 
Do you think any of the recent bad headlines for Hillary may cause Obama to squeak out a win in Pa? Because it just seems like Hill hasn't had any good news lately. For example, today she had Mark Penn resign and the "miss-speak" regarding a story she told about an Ohio woman and her health insurance. I am thinking maybe these kind of problems may erode her lead in Pa. I live outside of Philly and I see a lot more Obama commercials on TV and radio than Hillary....maybe since we still have 2 weeks to go Obama can pull this off....maybe I am just a dreamer, but I think he can do it!!!:thumbsup2

I'm not a pollster, but I would not rule out a win in PA, but at this moment, I'd place it in the 5% bracket.... not impossible, but not probable... I like to look at it realistically. We've all been told how it's tailor made for her, and that's where the initial lead came from. Time and again Obama gets on the ground & closes the gap significantly....

I think we need someone who's honest, if I'm being honest... There are a lot of things as of late that I've seen that I feel are dishonest, and have been proven to be dishonest. Frankly I'm quite glad some of these things are coming to light... it doesn't help her poll numbers, and perhaps brings them down a little. I expect this to go to the convention whether or not the Super's make their decision by July 1. Because we know there is a credential's committee there to appeal to.
 
I'm not a pollster, but I would not rule out a win in PA, but at this moment, I'd place it in the 5% bracket.... not impossible, but not probable... I like to look at it realistically. We've all been told how it's tailor made for her, and that's where the initial lead came from. Time and again Obama gets on the ground & closes the gap significantly....

I think we need someone who's honest, if I'm being honest... There are a lot of things as of late that I've seen that I feel are dishonest, and have been proven to be dishonest. Frankly I'm quite glad some of these things are coming to light... it doesn't help her poll numbers, and perhaps brings them down a little. I expect this to go to the convention whether or not the Super's make their decision by July 1. Because we know there is a credential's committee there to appeal to.


Unfortunately, I think you are right. I would love to see this end soon, but we have a snowballs chance in a "very warm place" for that to happen. Really, this whole contest is making me sick and tired. Of course this year's conventions are super late so we can wait all summer for this to stop. I saw a little bit from SNL's show Saturday night when Hill says she's dropping out....and then says, "sike!" Life is imitating art!!!
 
If the Supers put Obama over the top then Hillary will have to drop out, won't she? If they give her FL and MI that won't be enough if Obama gets what he needs from the Supers. Right?
 
If the Supers put Obama over the top then Hillary will have to drop out, won't she? If they give her FL and MI that won't be enough if Obama gets what he needs from the Supers. Right?

It's my understanding that the Credentials Committee can overturn what the Supers do... maybe someone can find information to the contrary, but I thought that was their possible option....
 
It's my understanding that the Credentials Committee can overturn what the Supers do... maybe someone can find information to the contrary, but I thought that was their possible option....

That is what I thought as well, which seems like a scary scenario on the surface. I just hate the thought of some group of party elders and elite chooses what is best for us as a party. I know this is a weird situation thsi year, but I really don't think Howard Dean has giventhe type of leadership the party needs right now.
 
I'm wondering how much do you guys believe that American research poll showing Obama and Clinton tied at 45%?

Obama's campaign seemed to acknowledge the uphill battle with PA and wanted to keep it within single digits.

Trying to be realistic here, but is it really possible that he's drawn even with her all across PA?

The biggest part of these primaries is managing expectations. Obama's campaign has successfully maneuvered this PA primary into a place where, if they lose by less than 10 points, it will be roundly called "win" in the press. This "expectations" game is the reason Bush is still in office...because expectations of him couldn't be much lower, so anything he does can be called a "success"...like walking and chewing bubblegum at the same time (which I'm not sure he could manage).

I think Obama will be happy with anything other than a double digit loss in PA. A win would be wonderful, but a close loss still is good for him.

It has been all bad news for Hillary of late, but I'm not doing any rejoicing. I'm not happy to see what's happened with her campaign, because I truly believe that she is an excellent Senator and would have made a very good President.

We've got a LONG way to go to November and Obama could very well have some bad days ahead as well.

I don't feel sorry for the witch in the LEAST. She has brought every bit of this on herself, and, frankly, I hope it ends her political career. I stood up for her against Repug flame-throwing for the better part of 10 years, and now I wish I had never said or written a word in her defense. Fact is, she deserves everything that's been said about her.

It's my understanding that the Credentials Committee can overturn what the Supers do... maybe someone can find information to the contrary, but I thought that was their possible option....

The credentials committee can decide to count Florida and Michigan, in which case the "magic number" would be further increased. Doesn't matter, though, because that's not happening. The party is stupid, as a group, but they aren't stupid enough to overturn the vote of the public just to satisfy Hillary Clinton. Florida, I could possibly see, but no way does Michigan get counted unless it's through a 50/50 split. ETA: The Supers will have their vote, regardless. All the input the Credentials Committee will have is what the "magic number" will be, and how many SD's it'll take each candidate to get there. In reality, so long as Michigan is split somewhat evenly, it won't make much difference to either candidate, as Hillary will still be far behind by every measure.

Just read this column on HuffPost and thought I'd share it here:

Chip Collis said:
Hillary W. Bush



At first glance, you wouldn't think there was much the same about Presidential candidate Hillary Clinton and Presidential resident George Bush, other than the fact that they both have approval ratings well south of the Mendoza line. On the face of things, they seem like polar opposites.

She was driven from early adulthood to over-achieve on her way to greatness. He was driven by daddy's limo from an extremely late adolescence to greatness' doorstep. She's a mainline power junkie. He's a recovering alcohol junkie. She went from being a Goldwater Girl and President of the Wellesley Republicans to being a moderate Democrat. He went from being a goldbricking pilot and head cheerleader at Phillips Andover to being a Born-Again Conservative Republican.

But the similarities are also very striking. Both owe their shots at the Presidency to being related to recent Presidents. If George Bush were just plain George Smith, he would never have been elected dogcatcher. (If he were George Bailey, Clarence would never have gotten his wings.) And if Hillary Clinton were still Hillary Rodham, she might be deeply ensconced on K Street as a lobbyist, but she'd never have had a sniff of Pennsylvania Avenue, at either end.

Both build inner organizations based on loyalty as the overriding virtue. The vaunted secrecy and loyalty of George Bush's inner circle may actually be eclipsed by that of the group known as "Hillaryland." This cohort, composed exclusively of people - mostly women - who worked for either or both Clintons during their White House years, is noted for its fierce, protective loyalty to Hillary. Just as in the Bush White House, that loyalty trumps competence, as is seen by the choice of Maggie Williams to be campaign manager, despite the fact that she's never run any campaign nor yet any enterprise of this scope and complexity before.

Apparently being a First Lady's Chief of Staff magically confers unrelated experience just like being First Lady does.

Both Clinton femme and Bush fils maintain a stubborn insistence that they are winning when they are, in fact, getting their asses royally kicked by scrappy insurgents. Both expected a cakewalk in their respective enterprises - one to be greeted as a liberator, the other to be acclaimed as his heir apparent. When that didn't happen in Iraq, or in this campaign, "victory" just kept getting redefined: WMDs morphed into Saddam morphed into Democracy just as delegate count has morphed into popular vote has morphed into the "important" states.

If real goalposts moved as much as these metaphorical ones, a football field would be just twenty yards long.

At the bottom of it all is a sense of entitlement, arrived at by different varieties of hubris. Bush's exaggerated belief in his own self-worth stems from being the privileged scion of a privileged family tracing its roots all the way back to the Plymouth Colony. Clinton's father was the son of immigrants, and hopped a freight to get to Chicago for his start. Hers is a sense of personal entitlement, rather than familial. Meritocracy versus Aristocracy.

In their differences, as in their similarities, we find that Hillary Clinton and George W. Bush are two sides of the same coin.

Sunday, a friend of mine pointed out an article in the Chicago Tribune that was written in anticipation of the visit of Pope Benedict XVI to the U.S. In relevant part, it reads:

"A central theme of Benedict's Papacy has been his argument that reason without faith leads to materialism and selfishness, while faith without reason leads to fundamentalism." (h/t Junie Sinson)

This is the crux of the Clinton/Bush dichotomy. Hillary's "me first" and "anything goes" mentality is due to having reason without faith. She triangulates unmercifully, repositioning herself wherever she needs to be, secure in the knowledge that wherever she is, she's right. She can rationalize anything in service to herself.

Bush, on the other hand, has a deep and abiding faith in his rectitude. Having chosen a path by whatever passes for mentation with him, he follows it blindly to its end. He has no need to rationalize it to himself or to anyone.

Hubris, whatever its origin, was often the hamartia, or fatal character flaw, which doomed the protagonists in Greek tragedy. In their most damning similarity, the contrasting hamartia of Clinton and Bush led them each to make the same tragic mistake in 2003. Bush pushed for war with Iraq because he believed beyond all reason that it was the right thing to do. Clinton voted for Bush's war because she selfishly reasoned that to vote against it would hurt her chances of becoming President regardless whether the war was right or not.

A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing. A little bit of faith can be more so. But a lack of either is deadly.
 
I think Hillary has a significant advantage in PA and if she doesn't win by double digits, I'd be surprised. I don't believe the ARG polls showing a statistical dead heat. I think if Hillary wins by less than 5% or Obama pulls out a come from behind win, I would imagine the superd's would end this relatively soon.

Rahm Emmanuel (undecided superd) said yesterday we'd have a nominee after NC/IN.
 
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