Obama supporters! - A positive place to talk about his campaign

[Reflection]

So I've seen several threads by conservative posters talking about wealth and taxes and that those that don't have as much talking about taxes for the wealthy are just 'jealous' of those that are wealthy.

So following that same logic, does that mean that all these conservatives that are calling Obama elitist are just jealous because he's better than them?

Good ole compassionate conservatism. Doesn't it just give you the warm and fuzzies!

 

[wvrevy]

You guys have got to read this!!!!

I Was There: What Obama Really Said About Pennsylvania

Last Sunday evening I attended the San Francisco fundraiser that has been the center of recent political jousting. The next day, when asked about the talk Obama delivered, I too commented about his answer to a question he was asked about Pennsylvania. Over the past week, though, I have had a Rashomon-like experience concerning those remarks.

Clinton, McCain, and media pundits have parsed a blogger's audio tape of Obama's remarks and criticized a sentence or two characterizing some parts of Pennsylvania and the attitudes of some Pennsylvanians. In context and in person, Senator Obama's remarks about Pennsylvania voters left an impression diametrically opposed to that being trumpeted by his competitor's campaigns.

At the end of Obama's remarks standing between two rooms of guests -- the fourth appearance in California after traveling earlier in the day from Montana -- a questioner asked, "some of us are going to Pennsylvania to campaign for you. What should we be telling the voters we encounter?"

Obama's response to the questioner was that there are many, many different sections in Pennsylvania comprised of a range of racial, geographic, class, and economic groupings from Appalachia to Philadelphia. So there was not one thing to say to such diverse constituencies in Pennsylvania. But having said that, Obama went on say that his campaign staff in Pennsylvania could provide the questioner (an imminent Pennsylvania volunteer) with all the talking points he needed. But Obama cautioned that such talking points were really not what should be stressed with Pennsylvania voters.

Instead he urged the volunteer to tell Pennsylvania voters he encountered that Obama's campaign is about something more than programs and talking points. It was at this point that Obama began to talk about addressing the bitter feelings that many in some rural communities in Pennsylvania have about being brushed aside in the wake of the global economy. Senator Obama appeared to theorize, perhaps improvidently given the coverage this week, that some of the people in those communities take refuge in political concerns about guns, religion and immigration. But what has not so far been reported is that those statements preceded and were joined with additional observations that black youth in urban areas are told they are no longer "relevant" in the global economy and, feeling marginalized, they engage in destructive behavior. Unlike the week's commentators who have seized upon the remarks about "bitter feelings" in some depressed communities in Pennsylvania, I gleaned a different meaning from the entire answer.

First, I noted immediately how dismissive his answer had been about "talking points" and ten point programs and how he used the question to urge the future volunteer to put forward a larger message central to his campaign. That pivot, I thought, was remarkable and unique. Rather than his seizing the opportunity to recite stump-worn talking points at that time to the audience -- as I believe Senator Clinton, Senator McCain and most other more conventional (or more disciplined) politicians at such an appearance might do -- Senator Obama took a different political course in that moment, one that symbolizes important differences about his candidacy.

The response that followed sounded unscripted, in the moment, as if he were really trying to answer a question with intelligent conversation that explained more about what was going on in the Pennsylvania communities than what was germane to his political agenda. I had never heard him or any politician ever give such insightful, analytical responses. The statements were neither didactic nor contrived to convince. They were simply hypotheses (not unlike the kind made by de Tocqueville three centuries ago ) offered by an observer familiar with American communities. And that kind of thoughtfulness was quite unexpected in the middle of a political event. In my view, the way he answered the question was more important than the sociological accuracy or the cause and effect hypotheses contained in the answer. It was a moment of authenticity demonstrating informed intelligence, and the speaker's desire to have the audience join him in a deeper understanding of American politics.

There has been little or no reaction to the part of the answer that was addressed to the hopelessness of inner city youth who have been rendered "irrelevant" to the global economy. No one has seized upon those words as "talking down" to the inner city youth whose plight he was addressing. If extracted from an audio tape HuffPost Blogger Fowler, those remarks could (and may yet) be taken out of context as "Obama excuses alienation and violence by urban youth." But in context, Senator Obama's response sounded like empathetic conclusions and opinions of a keen observer: more like Margaret Mead than Machiavelli.

As the week's firestorm evolved over these remarks at which I was an accidental observer, I have reflected upon the regrettable irony that has emerged from Senator Obama's response to a friendly question: no good effort at intelligent analysis, candor -- and what I heard as an attempt to convey a profound understanding of both what people feel and why they feel it - goes unpunished. Such insights by a political candidate might otherwise be valued. In a national campaign subject to opposition research, his analytical musing has instead created an immense amount of political flak.

Now and "in this time," to invoke one of the candidate's favorite riffs, such observations and remarks shared among supporters are just a push of a record button on a tape recorder away from being spread across the internet to be dissected by political nabobs. What struck me immediately after the fundraiser as so refreshing turned out to be a moment Senator Obama is forced to regret. Today we marvel at de Tocqueville insights about American communities. Apparently, such commentary is valued as long as it is three centuries old and doesn't come from the mouth of a contemporary observer who might be elected president.

So much for the political ironies. But there is one more personal observation that was missed.

I happened to be on the balcony when Senator Obama's vehicles arrived and he emerged from the Secret Service SUV. Obama shouted the friendly greeting "How are you guys up there doing?" to the group of us looking down from the balcony and then said, "You have to excuse me, I need to call my kids in Chicago now." All of us stood and watched the leading candidate for the Democratic party nomination for president have a short conversation with his kids before he entered a fundraiser to make his remarks.

No tape of that conversation has emerged as yet. Who knows how casual remarks of a father to his children or his wife on a cell phone could be spun to support the argument that as a father speaking to his kids two time zones away before they go to bed, his comments sounded as if he "looked down" upon them. Given his relative height and the age of his kids, he probably does. But that would be precisely as relevant to his capacity to unite and lead this country as were the remarks at the fundraiser that have been so deconstructed over this past week.

 

[Planogirl]

I think they are just looking for some in-party fighting is all. I don't go to their thread, I have no idea why they come to this one if all they want to do is argue semantics. If they have a point regarding Obama, then make the point, otherwise, head to your own thread and argue over there, it really serves no purpose. If you have an issue with a particular poster PM them or take it off the DIS for all I care.

That wasn't the case for me. I was simply responding to someone on this thread who did come to the Hillary thread and felt mistreated. I thought that was likely apparent. And it wasn't an issue - I have no issues with people but sometimes want to discuss things.

I also came to answer a question about Hillary made by a regular here. Believe it or not, I truly had no ulterior motive.

I'll leave you to your thread now though.

 

[marybet]

You guys have got to read this!!!!

Thanks, what a great article. You should post it on the Obama and small town America thread, maybe it will get some of them to look past the word bitter and realize what he really was saying. Nah, they would need open minds for that, like Hillary they are just trying to distract people from the real issues.

As another poster said Obama is not for 30 second sound bites, I hope more voters realize that.

 

[Fitswimmer]

Thanks, what a great article. You should post it on the Obama and small town America thread, maybe it will get some of them to look past the word bitter and realize what he really was saying. Nah, they would need open minds for that, like Hillary they are just trying to distract people from the real issues.

As another poster said Obama is not for 30 second sound bites, I hope more voters realize that.

I was thinking that over the weekend-is this country really ready for a leader that doesn't speak in 30 second sound bytes about God, Mom and apple pie? Or, do the American people really have the attention span of the average gnat and the intellectual curiostity of the average sloth and whoever hands them the right platitudes will get their vote? Wait..don't answer that...

 

[chris1gill]

I was thinking that over the weekend-is this country really ready for a leader that doesn't speak in 30 second sound bytes about God, Mom and apple pie? Or, do the American people really have the attention span of the average gnat and the intellectual curiostity of the average sloth and whoever hands them the right platitudes will get their vote? Wait..don't answer that...

Wait, I'll answer it, THE LATTER.... Intellectual curiosity and accomplishment isn't something to be revered in this country, or even spoken of. How many times have we been down this particular path? You know the answer.

As for me, I started from less than nothing, and accomplished a lot. I graduated high school at 16, I graduated college at 20 with 1.5 years of full time aerospace engineering experience under my belt. I graduated on time, with plenty of experience and went to work straight away. I paid my own way through school, I had nobody and nothing to rely on. I didn't have parents or grandparents standing there to catch me when I fell, I had no safety net at all. You know why I did it? Because I'm smarter and more self assured than most people you will ever meet. Do I try to find common ground with people who are not like me? Yes I do. I realize from which they came because that is where I came from. I realize that what I did very few people would ever be capable of doing, and I can appreciate the circumstance they find themselves in and how they got to that point in their life. I can even respect their point of views and appreciate the essence of their beings, even if we don't see eye to eye.

My son is extraordinarily bright, he's the kid who can and will accurately correct his teacher when they're wrong, and backup what he says with proof. However, he cares about what people think of his brightness, he hides it, he doesn't show it, he wants to be friends with everyone.

My daughter is bright, she knows that in order to stay ahead of the curve she has to surround herself with the brightest among her class, she cares not for the air of popularity. She only cares about advancing her knowledge, and surprisingly people see that and flock to her, but she doesn't see that, she only sees her future.

There's nothing wrong with wanting more than you had and getting more than you had, and expecting your children to have more than you had. Unfortunately many people do not see it that way, so in my family's case, they focused on things like abortion rights and gun rights when they voted, and left the rest to somebody else.

Did I move from what was a military rich town? Yes, was that business base ever replaced? No, glad I left when I did.....

Do I want a President smarter than I am? YES, do I want one who will listen to other points of view? YES, do I want one that will be held accountable? YES I still do, and I'm waiting for that & you know what? I'm bitter about what has gone on the last 7+ years. I am absolutely disgusted by it. Since when has the greatest Nation in the world resorted to things like torture? I don't see that discussed, only who is more "in touch" with the common man, I can say it's not Clinton with her two mansions and 100 million bucks, or McCain with his 100 million bucks, neither one of them have a clue WTH it's like to be common these days & to say people aren't bitter? Well they are blind....

So there ya go, there's your answer in far greater detail than I wanted to go!

 

[wvrevy]

The problem is, people are equating intelligence with arrogance, when, in fact, the two aren't in the least related. There is no way a truly intelligent person would want to surround themselves with "yes men", because an intelligent person values other viewpoints and can see what can be gained by listening to them, even if he or she continues to disagree.

And now, to lighten the mood a bit from all this highly intellectual discourse, I bring you this picture:

 

[robinb]

And now, to lighten the mood a bit from all this highly intellectual discourse, I bring you this picture:

I love it! What a goofy picture. Only unlike a lot of you, I find it goofy in an endearing way. It makes her more human, KWIM?

 

[wvrevy]

I love it! What a goofy picture. Only unlike a lot of you, I find it goofy in an endearing way. It makes her more human, KWIM?

Yeah, but Robin, that goes back to what we were saying before...I don't want a president that's goofy like me. (Although...I usually go cross-eyed after taking the shot. )

 

[marybet]

I love it! What a goofy picture. Only unlike a lot of you, I find it goofy in an endearing way. It makes her more human, KWIM?

More human? Don't you mean more pandering? Do you really think she downs boilermakers on a regular basis? I know all candidates do things like this, bowling comes to mind, but IMO it just makes them politicians.

 

[lilyv]

More human? Don't you mean more pandering? Do you really think she downs boilermakers on a regular basis? I know all candidates do things like this, bowling comes to mind, but IMO it just makes them politicians.

I dunno. She's had a few issues with her husband. I could see her occasionally coping with a Chappaqua weekend with a little "help".

 

[marybet]

I dunno. She's had a few issues with her husband. I could see her occasionally coping with a Chappaqua weekend with a little "help".

You just might be right!

 

[robinb]

Yeah, but Robin, that goes back to what we were saying before...I don't want a president that's goofy like me. (Although...I usually go cross-eyed after taking the shot. )

You manage to be smart and goofy at the same time . Seriously, I don't want a leader with a stick up his or her butt. I don't get that vibe from Obama, he has his own goofy edge to him ... those ears for instance.

 

[crcormier]

You manage to be smart and goofy at the same time . Seriously, I don't want a leader with a stick up his or her butt. I don't get that vibe from Obama, he has his own goofy edge to him ... those ears for instance.

They are a little Prince Charlesish, aren't they.

 

[wvrevy]

You manage to be smart and goofy at the same time . Seriously, I don't want a leader with a stick up his or her butt. I don't get that vibe from Obama, he has his own goofy edge to him ... those ears for instance.

What?

 

[chris1gill]

I love it! What a goofy picture. Only unlike a lot of you, I find it goofy in an endearing way. It makes her more human, KWIM?

Yeh, but before this picture if you watch the video, the drink is offered up, she says "no, no", then is goaded on by the crowd and of course she says fine

So she bowed to peer pressure essentially

And for the record I am not a fan of grown adults doing shots at all, a beer is fine, a glass of wine is fine, but huge personal issues with shots from grown adults If there'd been a thousand people saying do it, I'd have said no way, I'll just take the beer.... I would have just made a different choice is all.

 

[lilyv]

Yeh, but before this picture if you watch the video, the drink is offered up, she says "no, no", then is goaded on by the crowd and of course she says fine

So she bowed to peer pressure essentially

And for the record I am not a fan of grown adults doing shots at all, a beer is fine, a glass of wine is fine, but huge personal issues with shots from grown adults If there'd been a thousand people saying do it, I'd have said no way, I'll just take the beer.... I would have just made a different choice is all.

Totally agree. Sometimes, you make the right choice, because it's right for you, regardless of peer pressure. (Geez, why should anyone bow to peer pressure at 60???)

 

[chobie]

Hard to believe Hillary had over a 20 point lead in PA:

Pennsylvania Democratic Presidential Primary
Pennsylvania: Clinton 48% Obama 43%

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/pub.../pennsylvania_democratic_presidential_primary

And this is after the Rev. Wright hysteria and the "bitter" flap. My guess is Hillary stepped in it again with her new ad. She just doesn't get it.

And "bittergate" hasn't seemed to make a difference either.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/politico/20080415/pl_politico/9617


My apologies if someone has already posted this.

 

["Got Disney"]

Hard to believe Hillary had over a 20 point lead in PA:

Pennsylvania Democratic Presidential Primary
Pennsylvania: Clinton 48% Obama 43%

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/pub.../pennsylvania_democratic_presidential_primary

And this is after the Rev. Wright hysteria and the "bitter" flap. My guess is Hillary stepped in it again with her new ad. She just doesn't get it.

Thought ya might like an update.
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/pub.../pennsylvania_democratic_presidential_primary



Pennsylvania Democratic Presidential Primary
Pennsylvania: Clinton 50% Obama 41%

Tuesday, April 15, 2008



With a week to go until Pennsylvania voters render their final verdict, Hillary Clinton has opened a nine-percentage point lead over Barack Obama in the Keystone State. The latest Rasmussen Reports telephone survey shows Clinton now attracts 50% of the vote while Obama earns 41%.
That’s a slight improvement for Clinton who led by five percentage points a week ago.

 

[chris1gill]

Oh Boo stinking who, the Chinese government is upset with Nancy Pelosi for meeting with the Dalai Lama & for comments made by Jack Cafferty

An angry China is lashing out at its foreign critics

Source: m.com

...the state Xinhua news agency called House Speaker Nancy Pelosi “disgusting.” And on Tuesday, Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Jiang Yu lambasted a CNN commentator, Jack Cafferty, for his “vicious” commentary on China.

“We solemnly request that CNN, and Cafferty himself, take back the malicious remarks and apologize to the Chinese people,” Jiang said at a news briefing

In a commentary Sunday, Xinhua said Pelosi, who met last month in India with the Dalai Lama, the exiled Tibetan spiritual leader, “is detested by the Chinese people.” It accused her of displaying a “stubborn anti-China sentiment and uneasiness about China's peaceful rise.”

Cafferty, whose CNN commentaries are invariably acerbic, sounded off on China on the program The Situation Room April 9. He said the United States imports “their junk with the lead paint” and their “poisoned pet food” while losing factory jobs to China, a country run by “the same bunch of goons and thugs they’ve been for the last 50 years.”

Jiang, the ministry spokeswoman, said Cafferty “used his microphone to denigrate China and Chinese people” and that his remarks constitute racism.

The firestorm began among angry Chinese immigrants in the United States, who launched an online petition drive to protest Cafferty’s remarks. Coverage quickly crossed into China, where citizens had already launched an internet campaign against CNN, accusing it of biased coverage in mid-March of an uprising of ethnic Tibetans demanding greater freedom.

A Chinese “anti-CNN” website contained plenty of vitriolic remarks against Cafferty by Tuesday.