Not to reopen that can of worms but...

[itchin2go]

While it most definitely has been used dismissively, it isn't necessarily dismissive.

I SO agree. That was precisely my point, and I leave room for the fact that many have offered the advice with good intent. There are times, however, when it has been delivered in a dismissive, diminishing fashion, with no intent to help. I've seen it, and I think that's what was being referred to.

As I said, the people who feel their vacations have suffered under FP+ are not the only ones who have been spoken to dismissively. However, that's what Lucius Best (lol, I actually typed "Luscious" at first and had to correct) was referring to, so I pointed it out.

I am not finger pointing. The truth is, I don't even know who has used it dismissively and who hasn't. But I've seen it happen.

 

[TheDisGuy]

Heh Lucky, no one is looking for compliments. FP+ is a better system, period. It benefits more guests, and makes Disney more money. It is a proverbial win-win over FP- because it is better for more people on both sides of the equation.

Is there anyone in the world that FP+ is not good for? Well, I suppose there is the person that wants to plan nothing, show up, and ride the hottest rides w/o waiting. But then that person is probably not out here on the Dis, where we are all about planning and being a step ahead of the other guests by the mutual planning that we do.

If you want to be adamant that FP+ is worse for you, I have no objection! It is worse for you. And a handful of others. But Disney World is what we all make of it.

I got a ton of benefit out of FP-, but I also can get a ton of benefit out of FP+ by doing things a bit different. I suppose if I refused to do things that little bit differently, and showed up expecting to pull tickets, I might find FP+ was worse for me, because tickets are not there to be pulled.

There is a point at which even the most die-hard FP- person should come to grips w FP+, and stop asserting that they get less, and figure out how to get as much or more. It's doable!

Is the remainder of your "Disney life" going to be less happy because you think you are getting less now? Because there isn't a system in place that was so flawed that it made is so that a small fraction of guests could get all the benefit out of a fastpass system at the expense of most other guests?

Wait is this sarcastic or did the peace on the boards only last that short of a time that we have already gone back to sweeping generalizations with zero basis in fact ?

 

[Ambear]

Valid Trip Report: "We used to get 6-8 FP per day with the old paper system. But now we were lucky to get 4 or 5 with FP+. We did rope drop and used first 3 FP in morning then hit the kiosks. So FP+ wasn't better for us."

Helpful Advice: "Maybe try not using FP+ at all, then you'll have zero FPs!"
Helpful Response: "FP+ is great, period!"

I must have missed the posts where this happens like this. Most of the time I've seen people say "don't use fastpass" after the person not liking fastpasses doesn't feel the actual helpful advice offered can help them. I think people say this as a last piece of advice or exasperation because they don't know how else to help the person.

 

[itchin2go]

I must have missed the posts where this happens like this. Most of the time I've seen people say "don't use fastpass" after the person not liking fastpasses doesn't feel the actual helpful advice offered can help them. I think people say this as a last piece of advice or exasperation because they don't know how else to help the person.

You know, regardless, it's not helpful!

 

[momof2n2]

Wow - DIS was kinder and gentler for about 6 hours...

 

[Ambear]

You know, regardless, it's not helpful!

What's appropriate to say to someone who feels they can never enjoy fastpass+ and can't enjoy their vacation with it? I'm honestly asking cause I'm not sure.

 

[MrInfinity]

Wait is this sarcastic or did the peace on the boards only last that short of a time that we have already gone back to sweeping generalizations with zero basis in fact ?

I'm not sure. What is your position? You just favor peace? That's a good position, I guess.

My "sweeping generalization" is that FP+ was A) better for Disney. Which it was. and B) better for most guests. Which it was. It was a win-win. Are there still a few holdouts who will assert it still is worse for them? Sure! No system would make everyone happy. But FP+ was still the right move. If you look back to the conversations 3 years ago, ppl were saying this would break Disney, they would have to go back to FP-. That didn't happen. Disney is stronger than ever, and more guests are using FP+ than ever before. [shrug]. Decide for yourself if it was successful or not.

 

[maxiesmom]

Sorry but I have to disagree, NEVER have I seen someone comment and say "you don't have to use FP+, you can just SB everything" and the person respond with any indication they did not already know that absolutely obvious fact. No one has ever said "Wait what ? Stand by is still an option ?" Usually the "you don't have to use FP+" is a snarky reply to someone who posts a legitimate dislike about the system "No one is forcing you to use it, you can always just SB" And I have only once or twice seen someone acknowledge after they said you don't need to use FP+ that people will end up waiting significantly longer for attractions, and are at a greater disadvantage now than they were before FP+.

If you aren't providing them with new information you aren't really being helpful, you are probably just offering a sarcastic/snarky response. I mean, if you honestly didn't know the poster was unaware of the fact they didn't have to use FP+, then you can't be blamed for offering that information, but that's not usually how I have seen the "information" offered.

There is a difference in knowing something as a fact and knowing something in application. People can know the don't have to use FP but not know they don't HAVE to use it In order to have a great trip.

If we were all only allowed to post new Info these boards would soon be dead. I try to be aware too there are people who read here that don't post. You never know when someone is reading about a subject for the first time.

 

[TheDisGuy]

I'm not sure. What is your position? You just favor peace? That's a good position, I guess.

My "sweeping generalization" is that FP+ was A) better for Disney. Which it was. and B) better for most guests. Which it was. It was a win-win. Are there still a few holdouts who will assert it still is worse for them? Sure! No system would make everyone happy. But FP+ was still the right move. If you look back to the conversations 3 years ago, ppl were saying this would break Disney, they would have to go back to FP-. That didn't happen. Disney is stronger than ever, and more guests are using FP+ than ever before. [shrug]. Decide for yourself if it was successful or not.

A) - you have no idea if that is true, no one does other than disney. No idea if the investment has resulted in sufficient returns to call it a benefit.

B) - there is your sweeping generalization, you have no way of knowing that. There are MANY people who don't like it, and how "assert" its worse for them. Not just a "few hold outs"

 

[Ambear]

Are there still a few holdouts who will assert it still is worse for them? Sure

I think calling them holdouts is what makes these people angry cause it makes it seem like they should and will change their opinion someday. If you don't like something, you don't like something. Like how I hate alien encounter was removed and even if more kids can enjoy stitch, I'm never going to be happy about that lol.

 

[TheDisGuy]

There is a difference in knowing something as a fact and knowing something in application. People can know the don't have to use FP but not know they don't HAVE to use it In order to have a great trip.

If we were all only allowed to post new Info these boards would soon be dead. I try to be aware too there are people who read here that don't post. You never know when someone is reading about a subject for the first time.

Like I said, if thats how the information was offered: "I am not sure if this person is aware, so I will share with them the information that they don't have to use FP at all, and can just SB everything..." Totally agree, but you know, full well, thats NOT how that "information" has been offered like, literally over 90% of the time. Its almost always a snarky or sarcastic response to someone with a complaint about FP. Often accompanied with "Don't go to WDW anymore, more room for me !" or "Don't use FP then, More FP for me !"

 

[itchin2go]

What's appropriate to say to someone who feels they can never enjoy fastpass+ and can't enjoy their vacation with it? I'm honestly asking cause I'm not sure.

I would honestly say (and I grapple with this when I'm posting something myself, and I don't always live up to this, I'm a work in progress, but here you go), ask yourself if this is helpful in any way or if there's another agenda. If the agenda is exasperation or frustration or lashing out or insulting or dismissing or ridiculing, then my feeling is - don't say it. Just leave it be. As PP has pointed out, they already know that's an option, and one they're not happy with.

Maybe say, I'm sorry you feel that way, and I hope you find something that works for you? Or be honest, and say, I've really tried to help you here, but I'm out of tips.

 

[3DisneyFanz]

I wonder if there's a large segment of "people" that really are happier just taking whatever they can get. You're not happier, and I'm not happier, but I wonder if some are.

They are people here who have expressed that sentiment and honestly in a few years it will be where everyone is. I'm pretty much at that point already. It's not that I'm happier than I used to be as much as I realize I simply have no real choice in the matter.

 

[MrInfinity]

A) - you have no idea if that is true, no one does other than disney. No idea if the investment has resulted in sufficient returns to call it a benefit.

B) - there is your sweeping generalization, you have no way of knowing that. There are MANY people who don't like it, and how "assert" its worse for them. Not just a "few hold outs"

Sure I do. We are all intelligent, and we can all look at the public numbers that Disney provides.

A) I'm basing this on profits and stock price.

B) I'm basing this on the usage rates, which of FP- was around 10%, and FP+ at last I checked was around 50%. Last I checked was a year ago, so it's probly even higher.

 

[Ambear]

I would honestly say (and I grapple with this when I'm posting something myself, and I don't always live up to this, I'm a work in progress, but here you go), ask yourself if this is helpful in any way or if there's another agenda. If the agenda is exasperation or frustration or lashing out or insulting or dismissing or ridiculing, then my feeling is - don't say it. Just leave it be. As PP has pointed out, they already know that's an option, and one they're not happy with.

Maybe say, I'm sorry you feel that way, and I hope you find something that works for you? Or be honest, and say, I've really tried to help you here, but I'm out of tips.

Haha believe me I am too. I'm still trying to learn how to be more sensitive to all this fp stuff.

Anyway what you said makes sense. Especially the last sentence. I think people just get so passionate they feel personally invested in making fp+ work for everyone. It can't. That's that.

 

[momof2n2]

I think calling them holdouts is what makes these people angry cause it makes it seem like they should and will change their opinion someday. If you don't like something, you don't like something. Like how I hate alien encounter was removed and even if more kids can enjoy stitch, I'm never going to be happy about that lol.

Wow. Ambear. You've got this pegged.

 

[itchin2go]

Sure I do. We are all intelligent, and we can all look at the public numbers that Disney provides.

A) I'm basing this on profits and stock price.

B) I'm basing this on the usage rates, which of FP- was around 10%, and FP+ at last I checked was around 50%. Last I checked was a year ago, so it's probly even higher.

As to A, if there are greater profits and a greater stock price, how can you (for sure) lay this at the feet of FP+? It's conjecture.

As to B, just because people are using it, doesn't mean they like it. The jury is still out on this. IMO, the reason more people are using it is because Disney has hyped the heck out it. If they had run as many commercials hawking FP-, I wonder what its usage percentage would be. And if only 10% were using legacy FP, how does that other 40% KNOW it's better for them. They couldn't even compare.

 

[MrInfinity]

I think calling them holdouts is what makes these people angry cause it makes it seem like they should and will change their opinion someday. If you don't like something, you don't like something. Like how I hate alien encounter was removed and even if more kids can enjoy stitch, I'm never going to be happy about that lol.

Well, ANY system is going to make SOMEONE angry. Period. But FP+ has been good. When you separate the "me" from your observation, and look at the Parks & Rec division profits soaring, the stock soaring, the usage rates way higher than FP-, while sure, there are the few ppl that still hold out that the old system was better, and they're welcome to take this to the grave... the new system IS better. It may not be better for me, or Lucky, or any other guest who claim it's not, but it's better in general. You have to take yourself out of the equation when you look at a system as a whole. You should not look at whether it's better for you but whether it's a better system.

Is the ideal system one that benefits me alone? Of course! In a way. that would be awesome! Call it FP-. A system that only 10% of guests used, but those who did got awesome benefit from it. Trust me, I LOVED FP-. But that's not what we have, Disney fixed that. Now, the system benefits more people, but a little less, each. It's a better system overall. That is my point. A better system overall is not necessarily better for every single individual. But FP+ was a win-win and it took the stock from $70 to $110, screaming past the DOW. It WAS a huge success, despite some ppl who feel slighted by it, but only because they are only looking at how it affects them personally because they cannot get as much as they use to on the old flawed system.

 

[itchin2go]

Haha believe me I am too. I'm still trying to learn how to be more sensitive to all this fp stuff.

Anyway what you said makes sense. Especially the last sentence. I think people just get so passionate they feel personally invested in making fp+ work for everyone. It can't. That's that.

That bolded sentence really gave me pause. I never, never thought about it this way. You sound like an awfully nice person.

 

[3DisneyFanz]

Sure I do. We are all intelligent, and we can all look at the public numbers that Disney provides.

A) I'm basing this on profits and stock price.

B) I'm basing this on the usage rates, which of FP- was around 10%, and FP+ at last I checked was around 50%. Last I checked was a year ago, so it's probly even higher.

How do you seperate the profit increase from the general price increases? There is no evidence that FP+ is what's driving profit but knowing you're selling more tickets at a higher price is a pretty clear driver.

Usage doesn't mean it works better. You increase usage by offering to things that never used FP- but that doesn't mean people are benefiting from it.