Not to reopen that can of worms but...

[Ambear]

That bolded sentence really gave me pause. I never, never thought about it this way. You sound like an awfully nice person.

Oh, well thank you! I enjoy reading your posts on here cause you do a good job of understanding and responding to all angles of the fastpass discussion.

 

[Phil Dunphy]

But FP+ was a win-win and it took the stock from $70 to $110

lol

 

[MrInfinity]

How do you seperate the profit increase from the general price increases? There is no evidence that FP+ is what's driving profit but knowing you're selling more tickets at a higher price is a pretty clear driver.

Usage doesn't mean it works better. You increase usage by offering to things that never used FP- but that doesn't mean people are benefiting from it.

I'm not sure I understand your point at all.

Play back the earnings calls from the last 2 years. Really. It's easy to say there's no correlation, but there is one if you are actually following the info.

Usage means more people are using it. If previously one person use FP- to get 12 rides (while 3 people would get none), but now, 4 people are using FP+ to get 3 rides each, that is a huge success. FP- was a failed system. Don't get why ppl have such a hard time accepting this. Yes, if you learned FP-, you could benefit substantially, because most people didn't use it. I did. I loved FP-. But that is not a good system.

You have to consider that I actually loved the FP- system. However, I don't find fault in Disney moving to FP+, and I've come up w a way to make it work for me. What's the problem w that?

 

[Lucius Best]

What's appropriate to say to someone who feels they can never enjoy fastpass+ and can't enjoy their vacation with it? I'm honestly asking cause I'm not sure.

Maybe the only appropriate thing to say is nothing? Someone who says they can't enjoy a Disney vacation because of FP+ is either in an emotional/irrational state, or they really really really don't like FP+. Nothing you say will change it, they are entitled to their opinion, and if they are going to stay away from WDW because of FP+, so be it.

But I would say those people are an extreme minority. I'm going to guess the majority of people on this forum who preferred paper FP- over FP+ are planners, and they love Disney, and they're trying real hard to maximize their WDW trip with FP+. But they aren't getting as many FPs or repeat rides on headliners as they used to or whatever. So saying something like "well you don't have to use FP+ it's totally voluntary" is not just unhelpful, it's kind of insulting.

 

[Lucius Best]

I'm not sure I understand your point at all.

Likewise.

Play back the earnings calls from the last 2 years. Really. It's easy to say there's no correlation, but there is one if you are actually following the info.

FP+ hasn't been in use for two years. I know from most recent quarterly report, profit increase was reported to be due to pricing increases.

Usage means more people are using it.

Thank you for clearing that up. In a previous post I could have sworn that increased usage was used as proof that more people like it.

 

[itchin2go]

I'm not sure I understand your point at all.

Play back the earnings calls from the last 2 years. Really. It's easy to say there's no correlation, but there is one if you are actually following the info.

Usage means more people are using it. If previously one person use FP- to get 12 rides (while 3 people would get none), but now, 4 people are using FP+ to get 3 rides each, that is a huge success. FP- was a failed system. Don't get why ppl have such a hard time accepting this. Yes, if you learned FP-, you could benefit substantially, because most people didn't use it. I did. I loved FP-. But that is not a good system.

You have to consider that I actually loved the FP- system. However, I don't find fault in Disney moving to FP+, and I've come up w a way to make it work for me. What's the problem w that?

Regarding earnings and FP+, you have made a good case for an association, but not a causal relationship. There are plenty of other factors that may be causing earnings to go up. Off the top of my head: Reducing expenses for instance? Full opening of new Fantasyland? Better economy? Opening of new resort rooms? Increased ticket prices? I don't honestly know how plausible any of those are, but I think you can "associate" all of them with the increased earnings. Other things could just as easily be CAUSING profits to go up, or contributing to it at least. The truth is - none of us KNOWS, and stating things as fact when we don't know that they are .... bugs me.

FP+ is more successful because more people are using it? Did you ever seen one commercial run about using legacy FP? More people are using it because they're running commercials like crazy. Maybe people like it better. Maybe they don't. Maybe they just saw a commercial and followed up on new FP when they never did for old FP. Doesn't mean old FP was flawed. It wasn't promoted! I would posit, and I don't know if it's true, but I would posit this theory. FP+ is more widely used because someone talked someone into giving them one heck of an ad budget. I feel like this system was "too big to fail" not in the sense that failure would tank the economy, but in the sense that failure would tank some really top execs. And those guys weren't going to let that happen. So pull out the stops. Ads, ads, ads.

 

[Here Now]

While they are certainly promoting FP+ much more, I question the efficacy of those promotions. I'm still seeing many people in the parks right now who don't have a clue how FP+ works or what it is. Personally I think any claims of increased usage are a result of more attractions being FP'd and forcing everyone to pick three.

 

[WillAustin]

I wonder if there's a large segment of "people" that really are happier just taking whatever they can get. You're not happier, and I'm not happier, but I wonder if some are.

There are plenty of first time guests that wouldn't know anything is different.

Off the top of my head: Reducing expenses for instance? Full opening of new Fantasyland? Better economy? Opening of new resort rooms? Increased ticket prices? I don't honestly know how plausible any of those are, but I think you can "associate" all of them with the increased earnings. Other things could just as easily be CAUSING profits to go up, or contributing to it at least. The truth is - none of us KNOWS, and stating things as fact when we don't know that they are .... bugs me.

The earnings reports specifically cite higher revenue due to increased prices for food, beverages and merchandise.

 

[Jennasis]

What's appropriate to say to someone who feels they can never enjoy fastpass+ and can't enjoy their vacation with it? I'm honestly asking cause I'm not sure.

I offer that saying nothing would be an appropriate alternative.

 

[Angel Ariel]

I think calling them holdouts is what makes these people angry cause it makes it seem like they should and will change their opinion someday. If you don't like something, you don't like something. Like how I hate alien encounter was removed and even if more kids can enjoy stitch, I'm never going to be happy about that lol.

Exactly! I *am* adjusting to the system. I do accept that it is here to stay, and I need to learn how to use it as best I can. But there is *nothing* that is going to make me *like* planning rides 60 days out. I'm not pining away for legacy - I know it isn't coming back. I'm not holding out hope for any significant changes to the parts of the system I dislike (namely the preplanning), because I know that locking us in early is what Disney wants.

The fact is that fp+ has significantly changed our touring, and while we are and will continue to adapt to it, that doesn't mean I have to like or love the system. One can dislike a system and still adapt and learn how to use it as best they can. The two aren't mutually exclusive.

 

[itchin2go]

Thank you for clearing that up. In a previous post I could have sworn that increased usage was used as proof that more people like it.

I think he said it was "better for most guests". I questioned that, because if only 10% used legacy, and now 50% are using FP+, how does that extra 40% know if it's better for them?

My "sweeping generalization" is that FP+ was A) better for Disney. Which it was. and B) better for most guests. Which it was.

 

[3DisneyFanz]

I'm not sure I understand your point at all.

Play back the earnings calls from the last 2 years. Really. It's easy to say there's no correlation, but there is one if you are actually following the info.

Usage means more people are using it. If previously one person use FP- to get 12 rides (while 3 people would get none), but now, 4 people are using FP+ to get 3 rides each, that is a huge success. FP- was a failed system. Don't get why ppl have such a hard time accepting this. Yes, if you learned FP-, you could benefit substantially, because most people didn't use it. I did. I loved FP-. But that is not a good system.

You have to consider that I actually loved the FP- system. However, I don't find fault in Disney moving to FP+, and I've come up w a way to make it work for me. What's the problem w that?

Profits have increased without a doubt but they're funneling more people in at a higher cost than ever before. The only correlation you can make to this is if you believe FP+ is the driver for the increased attendance which I don't think it is. I can honestly say I've never heard anyone mention that as a reason they want to go to Disney.

As for FP+ vs FP- I still don't think more people using something means a better experience. Are people having a better experience at EPCOT not when there is virtually no chance at getting FP+ for their signature rides and they've put Living with the Land which rarely had its FP- machines operational due to low lines in the same category to make people believe they're getting something when they can't get one of the actual headliners. If you consider success simply using the FP+ system then yes it's great. If you're looking for people benefiting from it well probably not so much.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Regarding earnings and FP+, you have made a good case for an association, but not a causal relationship. There are plenty of other factors that may be causing earnings to go up. Off the top of my head: Reducing expenses for instance? Full opening of new Fantasyland? Better economy? Opening of new resort rooms? Increased ticket prices? I don't honestly know how plausible any of those are, but I think you can "associate" all of them with the increased earnings. Other things could just as easily be CAUSING profits to go up, or contributing to it at least. The truth is - none of us KNOWS, and stating things as fact when we don't know that they are .... bugs me.

FP+ is more successful because more people are using it? Did you ever seen one commercial run about using legacy FP? More people are using it because they're running commercials like crazy. Maybe people like it better. Maybe they don't. Maybe they just saw a commercial and followed up on new FP when they never did for old FP. Doesn't mean old FP was flawed. It wasn't promoted!

I didn't see commercials. But I don't see them now either due to my market, I assume.

I did see billboard ads in Orlando as well as mention in check in literature in multiple places in the legacy days. Plus Stacy and her predecessor would harp on it in the room tv when telling us about all the awesome things to do. So Disney was not being silent on it by any stretch.

As FP+ is still rather new and. A complete overhaul of a concept that now enables doing things before arrival, a marketing blitz with commercial campaign makes sense. But in my market, I see about the same level as I did during legacy.

I am not sure what you are seeing.

The commercials I recall--a big campaign for Naht-a-zu (sp?) and Disney Florida resident specials while living here.

Also the "I'm too excited to sleep" campaign.

In Virginia, LOTS of commercials for affordable Disney vacations starting at some insanely low number for a couple years at least.

I have not seen FP+ commercials like crazy in either market. (I relocated last fall, though.)

 

[WillAustin]

Exactly! I *am* adjusting to the system. I do accept that it is here to stay, and I need to learn how to use it as best I can. But there is *nothing* that is going to make me *like* planning rides 60 days out. I'm not pining away for legacy - I know it isn't coming back. I'm not holding out hope for any significant changes to the parts of the system I dislike (namely the preplanning), because I know that locking us in early is what Disney wants.

The fact is that fp+ has significantly changed our touring, and while we are and will continue to adapt to it, that doesn't mean I have to like or love the system. One can dislike a system and still adapt and learn how to use it as best they can. The two aren't mutually exclusive.

I agree completely, and I'll continue to tell people why I don't like it despite any suggestions that it's time to "move on".

 

[MrInfinity]

Regarding earnings and FP+, you have made a good case for an association, but not a causal relationship. There are plenty of other factors that may be causing earnings to go up. Off the top of my head: Reducing expenses for instance? Full opening of new Fantasyland? Better economy? Opening of new resort rooms? Increased ticket prices? I don't honestly know how plausible any of those are, but I think you can "associate" all of them with the increased earnings. Other things could just as easily be CAUSING profits to go up, or contributing to it at least. The truth is - none of us KNOWS, and stating things as fact when we don't know that they are .... bugs me.

FP+ is more successful because more people are using it? Did you ever seen one commercial run about using legacy FP? More people are using it because they're running commercials like crazy. Maybe people like it better. Maybe they don't. Maybe they just saw a commercial and followed up on new FP when they never did for old FP. Doesn't mean old FP was flawed. It wasn't promoted!

It's a cop-out to say "none of us knows, thus if anyone wants to talk about it, their argument is defacto, flawed". Because we do know more than we think. Some ppl might just throw up arms and say "well we don't really know!" But we can all read the actual transcripts of the calls, in which we KNOW that FP+ has a higher acceptance than FP- by about 5-fold, and MM+ has increased guest throughput and per-guest spending. Now sure there is a member out here who can say they now spend LESS. But still we are looking at one-offs, and not the published stats of the overall trends.

No, no commercials ran about FP-. That's one reason it was SO GREAT. Believe me I loved FP-, cuz I figured it out when nobody else did. FP- was TOTALLY AWESOME for those who used it, when 90% of guests did not. We'd run thru line after line, pick up a FP in the morning, use it in the evening, BAM no waiting whatsoever. However, when I say whether FP+ is good or not, I try to separate my own blissful enjoyment of FP-, to look at it from a systems standpoint, and say that yes, this new system is BETTER, because it prevents 10% of the users from utilizing 90% of the benefit, and now 50% or 60% of the guests are using FP+. How can you say that's bad? they made a better system, that cannot so easily be usurped by the likes of myself, or anyone else who loved FP-.

I just don't get why ppl are so latched on to FP- that they cannot move forward and find a way to love WDW in the age of FP+.

 

[MrInfinity]

Regarding earnings and FP+, you have made a good case for an association, but not a causal relationship. There are plenty of other factors that may be causing earnings to go up. Off the top of my head: Reducing expenses for instance? Full opening of new Fantasyland? Better economy? Opening of new resort rooms? Increased ticket prices? I don't honestly know how plausible any of those are, but I think you can "associate" all of them with the increased earnings. Other things could just as easily be CAUSING profits to go up, or contributing to it at least. The truth is - none of us KNOWS, and stating things as fact when we don't know that they are .... bugs me.

FP+ is more successful because more people are using it? Did you ever seen one commercial run about using legacy FP? More people are using it because they're running commercials like crazy. Maybe people like it better. Maybe they don't. Maybe they just saw a commercial and followed up on new FP when they never did for old FP. Doesn't mean old FP was flawed. It wasn't promoted!

It's a cop-out to say "none of us knows, thus if anyone wants to talk about it, their argument is defacto, flawed". Because we do know more than we think. Some ppl might just throw up arms and say "well we don't really know!" But we can all read the actual transcripts of the calls, in which we KNOW that FP+ has a higher acceptance than FP- by about 5-fold, and MM+ has increased guest throughput and per-guest spending. Now sure there is a member out here who can say they now spend LESS. But still we are looking at one-offs, and not the published stats of the overall trends.

No, no commercials ran about FP-. That's one reason it was SO GREAT. Believe me I loved FP-, cuz I figured it out when nobody else did. FP- was TOTALLY AWESOME for those who used it, when 90% of guests did not. We'd run thru line after line, pick up a FP in the morning, use it in the evening, BAM no waiting whatsoever. However, when I say whether FP+ is good or not, I try to separate my own blissful enjoyment of FP-, to look at it from a systems standpoint, and say that yes, this new system is BETTER, because it prevents 10% of the users from utilizing 90% of the benefit, and now 50% or 60% of the guests are using FP+. How can you say that's bad? they made a better system, that cannot so easily be usurped by the likes of myself, or anyone else who loved FP-.

I just don't get why ppl are so latched on to FP- that they cannot move forward and find a way to love WDW in the age of FP+.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I think he said it was "better for most guests". I questioned that, because if only 10% used legacy, and now 50% are using FP+, how does that extra 40% know if it's better for them?

Maybe because they are now getting fast passes when they weren't before? Perhaps it is convenient now whereas it may not have been before?

(Just guessing here.)

 

[Jennytoon]

I think he said it was "better for most guests". I questioned that, because if only 10% used legacy, and now 50% are using FP+, how does that extra 40% know if it's better for them?

I think the point about that 40% was not meant to be that FP+ was better for them than FP- would have been if they used it. It was meant to be that FP+ was better for them than what they had been doing previously which was SB for everything.

Some people might still quibble with the latter, but the idea that some FP is better than no FP does seem pretty obvious to me.

 

[WillAustin]

But we can all read the actual transcripts of the calls, in which we KNOW that FP+ has a higher acceptance than FP- by about 5-fold, and MM+ has increased guest throughput and per-guest spending.

The acceptance rate has nothing whatsoever to do with how people like the FP+ system. Increased usage of FP only comes from the design of the FP+ system itself. It's much more integrated and promoted than legacy ever was.

However, when I say whether FP+ is good or not, I try to separate my own blissful enjoyment of FP-, to look at it from a systems standpoint, and say that yes, this new system is BETTER, because it prevents 10% of the users from utilizing 90% of the benefit, and now 50% or 60% of the guests are using FP+. How can you say that's bad? they made a better system, that cannot so easily be usurped by the likes of myself, or anyone else who loved FP-.

I guess that's an opinion. There are still ways to maximize the new system.

 

[itchin2go]

I didn't see commercials. But I don't see them now either due to my market, I assume.

I did see billboard ads in Orlando as well as mention in check in literature in multiple places in the legacy days. Plus Stacy and her predecessor would harp on it in the room tv when telling us about all the awesome things to do. So Disney was not being silent on it by any stretch.

As FP+ is still rather new and. A complete overhaul of a concept that now enables doing things before arrival, a marketing blitz with commercial campaign makes sense. But in my market, I see about the same level as I did during legacy.

I am not sure what you are seeing.

The commercials I recall--a big campaign for Naht-a-zu (sp?) and Disney Florida resident specials while living here.

Also the "I'm too excited to sleep" campaign.

In Virginia, LOTS of commercials for affordable Disney vacations starting at some insanely low number for a couple years at least.

I have not seen FP+ commercials like crazy in either market. (I relocated last fall, though.)

LOL - I guess I assumed everyone sees the same commercials I do. *hits forehead*.

Yeah, here (Tennessee), they hawked FP+ on commercials like crazy. Almost as much as the Seaworld ones they're running now. I presume those aren't running locally either? Even back when offsiters couldn't book FP until day of, they were running commercials saying EVERYONE could prebook their FPs, which I knew wasn't true, and drove me nuts. I guess I should have seen it as a sign of where things were going (everyone can NOW prebook).