Not to reopen that can of worms but...

[wisblue]

That's what I think is so interesting. A 10% increase since 1991 isn't very much overall growth.that people want to visit. If they had invested more into attractions at epcot , AK and DHS , maybe a ride rationing system wouldn't have been needed to manage crowds

This subject was discussed in a thread you started a couple of days ago.

The numbers look significantly different when you consider that Disney only counts the first park visited by a guest in a day and that in 1991 DHS was in its infancy and DAK was several years away from opening.

 

[Angel Ariel]

I've stayed away from posting on this thread because I don't think we need still another rehashing of why people love or hate FP+. The fact that it works great for some people and not well for others cannot have been more clearly established a long time ago.

But I do want to comment on this one factual point. My recollection is that paper FP return times were always at least 30 minutes out until the final few months when paper FP and FP+ were operating together. Am I remembering this wrong?

I know for a fact we have had buzz fps be 20 mins out under the legacy system. Close enough to wait in SB for 15 mins, ride it, then get right back on via the fp.

 

[Angel Ariel]

I agree, the minimum wait with paper FP return times was 35-40 minutes, don't recall ever seeing anything quicker.

The first fp of the day did not start til 9:45 or so. After that, they were allocated in 5 min windows...9:50-10:50, 9:55-10:55...depending on crowd levels it was absolutely possible to get very quick return times.

 

[Ambear]

MK is only up about 10% from 1991 !!! 10% over 25 years !!! You are telling me they couldn't build capacity up to keep pace with crowds over that period ?
EPCOT is down and flat
HS is down from its peak
AK is slightly up ...

Okay I've seen this chart before.... What happened in 1992-4 that affected attendance so much? This might be a stupid question but I was only like 3 then so I'll blame it on that hah.

 

[MKMomma]

Okay I've seen this chart before.... What happened in 1992-4 that affected attendance so much? This might be a stupid question but I was only like 3 then so I'll blame it on that hah.

A recession in the late 80's early 90's that affected a great deal of the world caused a downturn in the economy, and not many people were vacationing at the time.

 

[wisblue]

A recession in the late 80's early 90's that affected a great deal of the world caused a downturn in the economy, and not many people were vacationing at the time.

I think the first gulf war affected travel too.

 

[Ambear]

A recession in the late 80's early 90's that affected a great deal of the world caused a downturn in the economy, and not many people were vacationing at the time.

That makes sense, thanks!

 

[MKMomma]

I think the first gulf war affected travel too.

Yes, it did, even though it was over in early 1991.

 

[wisblue]

Yes, it did, even though it was over in early 1991.

True, but I think the impact of the war on travel continued even after the fighting ended due to fears of terrorism and high fuel prices.

Either way, I think looking at attendance increases at WDW over almost 25 years without considering factors like economic cycles and other major world events like the gulf wars and 9/11 is overly simplistic. These uncertainties are also going to affect a company's decisions about where to spend its money.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Honestly this sounds like even MORE work and stress. I'd rather just deal with the person making a stink. Taking requests 1st, 2nd, and 3rd from a group of people ranging in size from 5 - 13 (depending how many people are together at that moment) up to 39 requests, and then going to the kiosk, waiting in line and trying to keep all that straight in my head ... no thanks.

We just didn't need to do this with legacy. We just pulled FPs for rides as we toured the parks, we never felt limited in the FPs we would get so there was no worry. No one would complain in Tomorrow land about pulling an FP for Space Mountain, because they knew that when we made it to frontier land we would pull for BTMRR. We didn't need to manage expectations. Now MK is still pretty ok, though we had less availability with FP+ than with legacy FP on our last trip, the other parks are FAR worse. There is just no way we are getting as much done in Epcot, or HS, or AK. Sure we can always rope drop and get a ton done, but we could ALWAYS rope drop get a ton done, have greater access to FPs for the rest of the day and shorter SB lines. In no way does FP+ make this better.

Its one of the things I just don't get when people complain about FP+ and the response is "you can still get a lot done, just rope drop" ... um ... thats not a new feature of FP+. That was always an option, but beyond your RD you had more availability ahead of you. Of course on the busiest times of year I can see how FP+ looks better for later in the day arrivals and for night arrivals, but moderate crowds and lower crowds, not really. And those advantages of FP+ are really only felt if you would have skipped the rest of the day anyway, or would rather skip the rest of the day. All things included, if you look at the ability to get things done from park open to close and assumed you would take advantage of the entire duration of park hours to ride rides, I can't see how FP+ is a net positive. In particular situations and with particular touring styles it obviously is, those styles and situations just don't usually align with ours, except arrival day perhaps

It is about as stressful as saying "you want fries with that?".

I mean , it isn't rocket science. It is pretty basic and simple and takes all of 5 seconds.

But that is how OUR group dynamic works. If it is too stressful for your group dynamic, then wouldn't you think that maybe it is more the people rather than Disney?

You pick something you think will work for everyone and you have complainers?

Our age range is teen down to newborn with height restrictions all in there plus the 2 adults.

No way would I take 39 requests. That is insane. No wonder it is stressful for you.
Our group does not operate that way. And we still have a great time.

And you say you did do this with legacy? Okay then. But how did your group deal with heading to Splash or Space? What is different now that rendered them unable to compromise that you have to deal with 39 separate requests? I take THREE requests. And that is it.

Rope drop has been my strategy for all of my visits pre and post legacy. So nothing changed except now I don't have to rope drop attractions I have fast passes for if I don't want to. I also don't have to play return time roulette. That is a net positive where before, if my return time was during an ADR, I was out of luck when enforcement was in effect.

 

[MakiraMarlena]

Legacy FP was also good for some guests but not so good for others. It's no different. the biggest issue seems to be that the people FP+ is good for are not the same people that legacy FP was good for.

39 requests? My brain would fall out if I had to remember 39 requests no matter what system I was on. There must be a better way to get your group to agree.

 

[Angel Ariel]

I didn't get the impression that the poster actually ever did or does take 39 requests from his family. But that *if* he were to take a top 3 request from each person in his party, as was suggested to him.in this thread as a way to not have everyone go to the kiosk, then that *could* go up to as many as 39 things to remember. From that, it seems the posters party size is maybe 13 people.

Taking a top 3 from people would work for my immediate family, no problem...but if we had 15 people with us as we have on our upcoming vacation (not Disney, but hypothetically if that group went to Disney), i can see the top 3 strategy being a bit more difficult.

 

[Minnesota!]

Well, FP+ is a big reason why we are going to Universal next year instead of WDW. Hate that the sponteneity was taken away, etc. And, it is still a very flawed system. So, to Uni we go!

 

[WillAustin]

I mean , it isn't rocket science. It is pretty basic and simple and takes all of 5 seconds.

You must not have been behind the same people I have in the kiosk lines.

 

[AriesAriel]

Overall, my family liked fast pass. They liked being able to get pretty much right on a ride. The kids especially loved hearing "we have a FP for this".

That said, it does take away a LOT of spontaneity. We had to constantly be considering where we needed to be next before doing something NOW. Want to ride ABC? Sorry - the line is 30 minutes and that means we'll miss our fast pass window for XYZ. Get off XYZ and now the line for ABC is 60 minutes.

 

[3DisneyFanz]

You must not have been behind the same people I have in the kiosk lines.

I think it's funny that one of the knocks on the old system was that people didn't know how it worked when all you had to do is stick a ticket in a slot but this version is so easy.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

You must not have been behind the same people I have in the kiosk lines.

Totally not what I said.

In context, what I said and meant was--I don't bring the group to a kiosk, it takes 5 seconds for my group to decide AWAY from the kiosk of what top 3 choices we have and then *I* go by myself.

A group unable to compromise to make a decision is not unable to do so because of a kiosk.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I think it's funny that one of the knocks on the old system was that people didn't know how it worked when all you had to do is stick a ticket in a slot but this version is so easy.

Totally NOT what I was implying. Please read again.

Or explain how a group fussing over what ride to do could determine which slot to go to in the old system so easily.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I didn't get the impression that the poster actually ever did or does take 39 requests from his family. But that *if* he were to take a top 3 request from each person in his party, as was suggested to him.in this thread as a way to not have everyone go to the kiosk, then that *could* go up to as many as 39 things to remember. From that, it seems the posters party size is maybe 13 people.

Taking a top 3 from people would work for my immediate family, no problem...but if we had 15 people with us as we have on our upcoming vacation (not Disney, but hypothetically if that group went to Disney), i can see the top 3 strategy being a bit more difficult.

I made the suggestion but I certainly did not suggest to ask every member of the party. Please read again.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I take requests and try to check them in that order.

"What do you want to do? If that isn't available, what is your second choice? (And possibly third?)"

We do this anytime there is ambiguity about availability for something be it Disney or elsewhere. We find it effective for setting expectations that what we want as our first choice may not be available and it allows less disappointment since they are being given the opportunity to have back up choices. Less disappointment that way except for the disappointment that naturally comes when you cannot get your first choice.

What I said and in no way did I suggest or imply to poll every member of be party originally. We have 6 riding in our group. I don't get 18 choices.

Those who inferred were welcome to seek clarification.